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Bluto

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Sea Turtle said:
Thanks for the post.

It comes down to this.
There comes a time where the people you govern and claim to represent are suffering so badly by a war that you started, that you must capitulate to your enemy and end it. The only example that I can think of where a government took its entire people down with the ship with them was Nazi germany. Even the Japanese capitulated after two atomic bombs.

I don't believe that Israel would forcibly remove all of the gazans if Hamas surrendered. I do believe that they would allow people to leave on their own volition. This is what terrifies everybody and it's wrong and selfish.

Before the war, 1 in 3 wanted to leave. Now it's 1 in 2. Do you believe that they should be forced to live there and not go anywhere else? Is anyone else on earth forced to stay in one small area?

Forget ethnic cleansing and the 'resistance'. Israel won the Civil War 77 years ago. They have soundly defeated every nation in the region since. Multiple times. They have over 100 nuclear missiles that can be fired on land and with their Dolphin Subs. They aren't going anywhere. Ever. They even have doomsday plans in case the world comes at them with said nuclear missles.

This isn't South africa. This isn't Algeria. This isn't Vietnam or whatever noble cause leftists want to romanticize and to have hope for toppling or boycotting out of existence.

So let's say they all left and started new lives somewhere. Some sad, some angry, some relieved and some hopeful. And then let's say Israel did annex it. Would that really be worse than what has happened to them this last year and a half? Even worse than before the war when 1 in 3 wanted to leave?
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It seems that you are stating that Israel is too “powerful” to bring to heal because they have nukes. I disagree.

How about clearly identifying them as and treating them as the rouge state that they have become. They developed nukes in violation of international law, spied on the US repeatedly over the decades, carried out extrajudicial assassinations of foreign nationals globally and are now engaged in carrying out a genocide.

If the US and Europe withdrew their financial and military support and insisted on them changing course they would do so the next day. Trump to his credit made this clear when he insisted on the ceasefire at the beginning of the year.

Now, as to a boycott not working, that is inaccurate. The BDS movement (modeled after the South African Boycott) has been gaining substantial support and the current insane levels of censorship surrounding criticism of the State of Israel are a direct response to that. The government in Israel has seen its support has eroded significantly in the US and this has been their desperate response.

Lastly, your framing of the events regarding the Japanese surrender and that being the only example of “people not going down with the ship” are not accurate. First, a large contingent of the Japanese command was ready to fight to the bitter end even after the second bomb. There is a strong argument that what caused the Japanese to ultimately surrender was Russia agreeing to attack Japan.

Also, the State of Israel makes a big deal of the events at Masada where a significant number of Jews committed suicide as opposed to surrendering to the Romans.

There’s a strong argument that the South continued to fight long after it was clear there was no chance that they would win during the Civil War.
 
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drayer54

drayer54

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Bluto said:
People on the right were calling this guy a “vegetable” a few months ago.

Advocating for war with Iran is an idiotic idea based on the reality at hand.
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He wasn’t all that lively as a candidate and they did their best to cover up his condition. Media was complicit. It was a fair criticism. Now that he has blood flowing through his brain, it’s different.
 
Bishop2b5

Bishop2b5

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ab2cmiller said:
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Surely none of it was intentional. I mean, journalists in the US are of such high character with no agenda other than a strict adherence to the truth, that I would be absolutely shocked if it was anything other than an honest mistake coupled with a small bit of laziness.
 
Sea Turtle

Sea Turtle

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Bluto said:
It seems that you are stating that Israel is too “powerful” to bring to heal because they have nukes. I disagree.

How about clearly identifying them as and treating them as the rouge state that they have become. They developed nukes in violation of international law, spied on the US repeatedly over the decades, carried out extrajudicial assassinations of foreign nationals globally and are now engaged in carrying out a genocide.

If the US and Europe withdrew their financial and military support and insisted on them changing course they would do so the next day. Trump to his credit made this clear when he insisted on the ceasefire at the beginning of the year.

Now, as to a boycott not working, that is inaccurate. The BDS movement (modeled after the South African Boycott) has been gaining substantial support and the current insane levels of censorship surrounding criticism of the State of Israel are a direct response to that. The government in Israel has seen its support has eroded significantly in the US and this has been their desperate response.

Lastly, your framing of the events regarding the Japanese surrender and that being the only example of “people not going down with the ship” are not accurate. First, a large contingent of the Japanese command was ready to fight to the bitter end even after the second bomb. There is a strong argument that what caused the Japanese to ultimately surrender was Russia agreeing to attack Japan.

Also, the State of Israel makes a big deal of the events at Masada where a significant number of Jews committed suicide as opposed to surrendering to the Romans.

There’s a strong argument that the South continued to fight long after it was clear there was no chance that they would win during the Civil War.
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They don't just have nukes. They are a small superpower.

Yes, they stole secrets. So did the USSR and China. We assasinate people all of the time. So do other countries.

What does changing course mean?

If the west stops cooperating with Israel in any meaningful way, India, Russia and or China will gladly step in. India is an emerging world power and they love them some Israel.

I know how BDS is structured. That's why I mentioned South Africa, which is a failed state now. They are not remotely the same. Other than you have whites in both countries. Which is what this is really about. What's worse, they are Jews.

It does puzzle me that the world would still support and fund Hamas after they threw their opposition off of buildings and eliminated any elections going forward after winning.

Heck, Idi Amin should have imported some white people and acted oppressed if that's all it takes for the world to support monsters.

The Jews are not some tiny minority asserting their will over a huge swath of land. The Jews are by far the majority, and their culture was there first. Arabs have same rights and privileges as Jews. Gaza and the West Bank are not part of Israel. Since the Palestinians refuse to accept them as a state, it's always been the wild west there.

You are right, those nations could have held out for far longer and got their countries and populations decimated completely. But they didnt because it wasn't in their civilians best interests. Hamas is willing to sacrifice their own people to the last man in order to keep fighting and more importantly, keep power.

Next week should be a doozy if a deal isn't reached.
 
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calvegas04

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This is the most tense the world has been in years. Wars going on everywhere



 
drayer54

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calvegas04 said:
What's going on here?

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This happens. They lost one doing full speed out of nowhere and doing a turn, which is wild in the Red Sea. The Red Sea ain't that big…
The Truman already had a collision, CO replacement, and jet loss on this deployment. Rough times.
 
calvegas04

calvegas04

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drayer54 said:
This happens. They lost one doing full speed out of nowhere and doing a turn, which is wild in the Red Sea. The Red Sea ain't that big…
The Truman already had a collision, CO replacement, and jet loss on this deployment. Rough times.
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I can't remember ever hearing about a carrier losing multiple aircraft like this in such a short period time.
 
drayer54

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calvegas04 said:
I can't remember ever hearing about a carrier losing multiple aircraft like this in such a short period time.
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Losing one in evasive maneuvers is not common. That situation is certainly unique. Arresting gear failure or landing failure isn't that rare.The weird part is if you are below decks listening to the sound of the plane collide with the hull. The Red Sea sucks for a navy ship. You can almost always see oil rigs, its tight for big ships to operate and any fishing radar can spot you there. Its also hot as balls there.
 
Irish#1

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Do we know for sure if this was the Pakistan government or a Pakistani terrorist group that attacked Kashmir?
 
Fbolt

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What a joke. Couldn't make it past the PAO wearing a vest.
 
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