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Bluto

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RDU Irish said:
You conveniently skipped over nuclear. Gas is powering survival and clean up - electric anything is short of useless in western NC right now.

Developed countries all have birth rates below replacement levels. Advancement has had the unexpected benefit of crushing your people as locusts apocalyptic baseline assumption. You seem to view humans as a core "problem" if you will.
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I think nuclear should be revisited and I’m not opposed to it outright but large scale nuclear has all kinds of issues as demonstrated by Fukushima and Chernobyl never mind the use of nuclear material as a weapon by a non state actor.

As an aside the show Chernobyl is one of the most terrifying ever. Insane how close to world came to most of Ukraine and Eastern Europe being uninhabitable due to the events there.

Anyhow, sure gas is powering the clean up now but it’s continued use creates a negative feedback loop that leads to increased destruction.

The people as locust comment is just kind of weird cheap shot. I’m just communicating simple biological truths in terms of carrying capacities. It is what it is.

Based on some of the research I’ve read the carrying capacity for the entire planet is about 500 million assuming they all live a typical present day American upper middle class lifestyle. The current population sits at what? 7 billion?

Humans are not the “core problem” per se rather it’s the continued existence and hubris of a class of people whom Adam Smith referred to as the “masters of men” coupled with the commodification of entire ecosystems. It’s pretty clear that the path this group has put humanity on is not sustainable as demonstrated by the yearly multi billion dollar disasters.

The earth is gonna keep spinning. Humans continuing to exist? I’m not that optimistic honestly given the current trajectory. History is littered with failed civilizations who were hot shit until they weren’t. If I had to put money on which civilizations will persist I would go with the few remaining nomadic hunter gatherers and pastoralists. Wouldn’t that be peak irony.
 
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FDNYIrish1

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Bluto said:
I think nuclear should be revisited and I’m not opposed to it outright but large scale nuclear has all kinds of issues as demonstrated by Fukushima and Chernobyl never mind the use of nuclear material as a weapon by a non state actor.

As an aside the show Chernobyl is one of the most terrifying ever. Insane how close to world came to most of Ukraine and Eastern Europe being uninhabitable due to the events there.

Anyhow, sure gas is powering the clean up now but it’s continued use creates a negative feedback loop that leads to increased destruction.

The people as locust comment is just kind of weird cheap shot. I’m just communicating simple biological truths in terms of carrying capacities. It is what it is.

Based on some of the research I’ve read the carrying capacity for the entire planet is about 500 million assuming they all live a typical present day American upper middle class lifestyle. The current population sits at what? 7 billion?

Humans are not the “core problem” per se rather it’s the continued existence and hubris of a class of people whom Adam Smith referred to as the “masters of men” coupled with the commodification of entire ecosystems. It’s pretty clear that the path this group has put humanity on is not sustainable as demonstrated by the yearly multi billion dollar disasters.

The earth is gonna keep spinning. Humans continuing to exist? I’m not that optimistic honestly given the current trajectory. History is littered with failed civilizations who were hot shit until they weren’t. If I had to put money on which civilizations will persist I would go with the few remaining nomadic hunter gatherers and pastoralists. Wouldn’t that be peak irony.
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Please save this negativity for the postgame threads and Riley Leonard 😂
 
RDU Irish

RDU Irish

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Bluto said:
I think nuclear should be revisited and I’m not opposed to it outright but large scale nuclear has all kinds of issues as demonstrated by Fukushima and Chernobyl never mind the use of nuclear material as a weapon by a non state actor.

As an aside the show Chernobyl is one of the most terrifying ever. Insane how close to world came to most of Ukraine and Eastern Europe being uninhabitable due to the events there.

Anyhow, sure gas is powering the clean up now but it’s continued use creates a negative feedback loop that leads to increased destruction.

The people as locust comment is just kind of weird cheap shot. I’m just communicating simple biological truths in terms of carrying capacities. It is what it is.

Based on some of the research I’ve read the carrying capacity for the entire planet is about 500 million assuming they all live a typical present day American upper middle class lifestyle. The current population sits at what? 7 billion?

Humans are not the “core problem” per se rather it’s the continued existence and hubris of a class of people whom Adam Smith referred to as the “masters of men” coupled with the commodification of entire ecosystems. It’s pretty clear that the path this group has put humanity on is not sustainable as demonstrated by the yearly multi billion dollar disasters.

The earth is gonna keep spinning. Humans continuing to exist? I’m not that optimistic honestly given the current trajectory. History is littered with failed civilizations who were hot shit until they weren’t. If I had to put money on which civilizations will persist I would go with the few remaining nomadic hunter gatherers and pastoralists. Wouldn’t that be peak irony.
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Malthusian thinking with a heavy lean to nihilism. I don't doubt windmills and solar panels destroying our landscape can only support 500M people on Earth though.

I understand your POV, I just have a more optimistic view on human ingenuity and resilience. Current carbon levels are quite low by the standards of the last half billion years. Our resources are better applied to adaptability and efficiency than pretending there is a correct climate for the planet that we can control.
 
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Bluto

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RDU Irish said:
Malthusian thinking with a heavy lean to nihilism. I don't doubt windmills and solar panels destroying our landscape can only support 500M people on Earth though.

I understand your POV, I just have a more optimistic view on human ingenuity and resilience. Current carbon levels are quite low by the standards of the last half billion years. Our resources are better applied to adaptability and efficiency than pretending there is a correct climate for the planet that we can control.
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My thinking isn’t really informed by either of those. My point of view comes largely from reading abut ecology and biology and the ideas of carrying capacities and gai theory.

Carrying capacity - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

I agree human ingenuity can help to increase humans ability to persist however, I’m not hopeful that said ingenuity will be applied to do so.

The reason I say this is based on the fact that the world economies are currently structured in a way that encourages treating finite natural resources like any other commodity and that progress and success are defined largely by increased efficiency in order to encourage increased consumption of said finite resources. That’s pretty crazy when you stop and think about it.

A perfect example of this for me is the discussions around mining the world’s oceans that have been popping up as of late. What could go wrong with that right?

Lastly, most of the current design and engineering around the world is based on the climate of the last couple hundred years. You can’t design and engineer to what you can’t predict and that’s one reason why adapting might be exceptionally difficult.

Anyhow, good discussion. Take care. Go Irish.
 
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