Marcus Freeman Revisited

[Lucky Mammal]

ND fans:
We don't go after the 4's & 5*'s; we hire a coach that is aggressive and recruits 5*'s, but lose out to other teams = MF can't recruit, what are we doing wasting our time going after these guys (or quit wasting our time with flakes)?
Guess what? The higher rated kids are getting so much pressure from many different coaches & handlers. We can't bitch about going after the higher rated kids and losing out. He'll start getting some.
News flash - many kids don't want to choose hard. They don't want to go to school. They are NOT going to school at other top programs. That's a fact!

ND fans:
Fire MF. Can't win the games he's supposed to win. I'm pissed as much as anyone else, but it comes down to QB play. Look at the top teams, all have above avg to great QB play. Credit to them for going after what they thought were QB's that could help the team. Evaluations were off. One (Hartman) was a diva, and the current one can't throw the ball. I'd love for them to go with kids they recruited, but let's face it, Kelly left that cupboard bare. They need to score more than 16 pts vs a MAC team. Yes, the defense couldn't get off the field, but they only gave up 16 pts, enough to win most games.

The roster has been upgraded over the previous regimes, but missing at QB (and WR) has hurt. Having 2 OT's leave early plus mediocre QB play has really hurt. Time rally and see how the season plays out. Quit your bitching and whining!

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

First thing I noticed was not just the NIU postgame thread, but Freeman's, Denbrocks, Leonard's and Angeli's got bumped in addition to four or five new threads discussing the same stuff.

Bevacqua got some play too.

 

[NDRock]

ND fans:
We don't go after the 4's & 5*'s; we hire a coach that is aggressive and recruits 5*'s, but lose out to other teams = MF can't recruit, what are we doing wasting our time going after these guys (or quit wasting our time with flakes)?
Guess what? The higher rated kids are getting so much pressure from many different coaches & handlers. We can't bitch about going after the higher rated kids and losing out. He'll start getting some.
News flash - many kids don't want to choose hard. They don't want to go to school. They are NOT going to school at other top programs. That's a fact!

ND fans:
Fire MF. Can't win the games he's supposed to win. I'm pissed as much as anyone else, but it comes down to QB play. Look at the top teams, all have above avg to great QB play. Credit to them for going after what they thought were QB's that could help the team. Evaluations were off. One (Hartman) was a diva, and the current one can't throw the ball. I'd love for them to go with kids they recruited, but let's face it, Kelly left that cupboard bare. They need to score more than 16 pts vs a MAC team. Yes, the defense couldn't get off the field, but they only gave up 16 pts, enough to win most games.

The roster has been upgraded over the previous regimes, but missing at QB (and WR) has hurt. Having 2 OT's leave early plus mediocre QB play has really hurt. Time rally and see how the season plays out. Quit your bitching and whining!

I keep hearing this but it's not true. We're basically the same as the entire Kelly regime. Strong in some areas and weak in others.

 

[Irish4life]

I keep hearing this but it's not true. We're basically the same as the entire Kelly regime. Strong in some areas and weak in others.

This roster is deeper and more talented top to bottom than any Brian Kelly team aside from maybe 2015.

 

[NDRock]

This roster is deeper and more talented top to bottom than any Brian Kelly team aside from maybe 2015.

These are the guys on the 2012 team (Kelly's 3rd year) that were drafted in the next two drafts:

Tyler Eifert
Manti Te'o
Jamoris Slaughter
Theo Riddick
Kap
Zeke Motta
Zach Martin
Stephon Tuitt
Troy Niklas
Lous Nix
Chris Watt
Prince Shembo
Bennett Jackson
TJ Jones

Do you think we're more talented than this group? I really don't care how talented we are on the roster 65-85, which is always the default argument.

 

[Irish4life]

These are the guys on the 2012 team (Kelly's 3rd year) that were drafted in the next two drafts:

Tyler Eifert
Manti Te'o
Jamoris Slaughter
Theo Riddick
Kap
Zeke Motta
Zach Martin
Stephon Tuitt
Troy Niklas
Lous Nix
Chris Watt
Prince Shembo
Bennett Jackson
TJ Jones

Do you think we're more talented than this group? I really don't care how talented we are on the roster 65-85, which is always the default argument.

Yes

 

[NDRock]

Yes

I guess we’ll see if the NFL and Heisman voters agree with you.

 

[Irish4life]

I guess we’ll see if the NFL and Heisman voters agree with you.

BMo
Watts
Shuler
Gray
Kiser
Mills
Cross
Evans
Flanagan
Price
Collins
Love
Craig
Schrauth
KVA (in 2 years)
Bowen (in 2 years)
All ^ will be drafted

 

[Kingbish01]

This roster is deeper and more talented top to bottom than any Brian Kelly team aside from maybe 2015.

As much as I want to agree. You put RL and Love behind a Kelly O-line, it would get nasty. You put MFs LBs and secondary behind a Kelly DL they feast feast. The push that NIU got looked like 2012 Bama vs ND...so crazy to me. No way Tillery, Day or Nix get worked like that.

 

[Irish4life]

As much as I want to agree. You put RL and Love behind a Kelly O-line, it would get nasty. You put MFs LBs and secondary behind a Kelly DL they feast feast. The push that NIU got looked like 2012 Bama vs ND...so crazy to me. No way Tillery, Day or Nix get worked like that.

Man if you weren't expecting an OL without it's starting LT and 6 combined starts to struggle idk what to tell ya. Also unironically comparing 2024 NIU to the championship game against Alabama is crazy. Absolutely, positively crazy.....especially considering one of the players you mentioned (Nix) literally played for ND in that game.......

 

[Kingbish01]

Man if you weren't expecting an OL without it's starting LT and 6 combined starts to struggle idk what to tell ya. Also unironically comparing 2024 NIU to the championship game against Alabama is crazy. Absolutely, positively crazy.....especially considering one of the players you mentioned (Nix) literally played for ND in that game.......

Whoa wait a second. I feel you kind of missed my whole point, which screams for me not to go back and forth.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

I really don't want Meyer or Saban to come here because I'm afraid they would not be able to deliver a title either and then I would have no hope left.

I don't think you need to worry about either scenario ever manifesting itself in this life or the next.

 

[Irish4life]

Whoa wait a second. I feel you kind of missed my whole point, which screams for me not to go back and forth.

Hey if you wanna do revisionist history on BK that's fine by me

 

[NDRock]

Man if you weren't expecting an OL without it's starting LT and 6 combined starts to struggle idk what to tell ya. Also unironically comparing 2024 NIU to the championship game against Alabama is crazy. Absolutely, positively crazy.....especially considering one of the players you mentioned (Nix) literally played for ND in that game.......

That’s kind of the point. Were down at most positions on the offensive side( OL, WR, QB) yet we’re also more talented than ever before? It’s the same as it’s been forever. Holes in the roster at multiple positions makes it impossible to be a championship team. By most metrics, we’re similar to the Kelly teams as far as talent. I always like 247’s talent composite. We’re sitting 10th, which was about our average during the Kelly years, with one 5* player.

I also really like Freeman and hope he makes it.

 

[ThePiombino]

This roster is deeper and more talented top to bottom than any Brian Kelly team aside from maybe 2015.

And yet we lost to NIU. At home. In year 3.

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[Kingbish01]

Kelly's teams were great in the trenches for sure. You put MF/BK roster management together you have one incredible team. If Prime doesn't start focusing some attention there as well, he will never make a bowl game.

 

[Irish4life]

And yet we lost to NIU. At home. In year 3.

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Coaching issue, not a roster issue. We also physically dominated Texas A&M in Kyle Field

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

We had 40+ straight wins against unranked opponents through 2021. How many have we lost under Freeman now? I wanted it to work out. I still do. But how long can we wait for him to figure it out? The plan was always to let him learn on the job while building on the foundation that Kelly built through recruiting and development. If this year's class (so far) is a sign of things to come, I'm not sure he deserves much more time to be honest. Again, I really wanted this to work.

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I think most of us did. He's a likeable person. Unfortunately, this has become a pattern of ineptitude, and he just doesn't seem capable of leading this football team, and that's a harsh reality.

I truly hope he proves us wrong the rest of the year, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Kingbish01]

Coaching issue, not a roster issue. We also physically dominated Texas A&M in Kyle Field

I don't believe for a second that Golden all of the sudden forgot what plays to call to stop a 1* RB from gaining 100 on the ground.

Coaching as MF not having them ready sure....But those players on Sat looked slow and out of place. I get not tossing kids under the bus, but they all sure deserved it.

 

[Irish4life]

That’s kind of the point. Were down at most positions on the offensive side( OL, WR, QB) yet we’re also more talented than ever before? It’s the same as it’s been forever. Holes in the roster at multiple positions makes it impossible to be a championship team. By most metrics, we’re similar to the Kelly teams as far as talent. I always like 247’s talent composite. We’re sitting 10th, which was about our average during the Kelly years, with one 5* player.

I also really like Freeman and hope he makes it.

The OL was always gonna be an issue first with both Alt and Fisher going to the draft and then once our starting LT went down for the year in camp. WR at least has 1 future NFL player and a couple guys that have a shot if they progress (Faison/Greathouse) but obviously hasn't been an ideal start there. Also, talent composite wise ND is 5th in the country by average rating....which is the highest since 2015 when they were 4th.

 

[Irish4life]

I don't believe for a second that Golden all of the sudden forgot what plays to call to stop a 1* RB from gaining 100 on the ground.

Coaching as MF not having them ready sure....But those players on Sat looked slow and out of place. I get not tossing kids under the bus, but they all sure deserved it.

They were the better, faster, more athletic team in Kyle Field too. If you have wild swings between physically dominating a ranked SEC team on the road and getting physically dominated by a MAC team at home, that comes down to preparation. And preparation is a coaching issue.....

 

[Kingbish01]

The OL was always gonna be an issue first with both Alt and Fisher going to the draft and then once our starting LT went down for the year in camp. WR at least has 1 future NFL player and a couple guys that have a shot if they progress (Faison/Greathouse) but obviously hasn't been an ideal start there. Also, talent composite wise ND is 5th in the country by average rating....which is the highest since 2015 when they were 4th.

Then it falls completely on development. Taking your word that we are 5th in the country, it sure doesn't look like it to me. I think ND played great against A&M. Neither team did anything flashy and you could tell it was game one. I wonder if they could beat them again if they ran it back Dec 1st.

 

[Bluto]

As much as I want to agree. You put RL and Love behind a Kelly O-line, it would get nasty. You put MFs LBs and secondary behind a Kelly DL they feast feast. The push that NIU got looked like 2012 Bama vs ND...so crazy to me. No way Tillery, Day or Nix get worked like that.

Ehhh…not the one that featured Carlo Calabrese playing nose tackle due to lack of depth.

The best d lines Kelly ever had were guys recruited by Gilmore and coached by Elston.

 

[Kingbish01]

They were the better, faster, more athletic team in Kyle Field too. If you have wild swings between physically dominating a ranked SEC team on the road and getting physically dominated by a MAC team at home, that comes down to preparation. And preparation is a coaching issue.....

I agree with what you're saying. But these are lifelong football players, just because you didn't get the proper cheerleading or pep talks all week doesn't mean you go out there as a 6'5 300lb DL and get pushed around by a 6'2 270 guy.

***All heights and weights have been made up....Just trying to shine a light on the fact that it should have been David Vs Goliath.

 

[Irish4life]

Then it falls completely on development. Taking your word that we are 5th in the country, it sure doesn't look like it to me. I think ND played great against A&M. Neither team did anything flashy and you could tell it was game one. I wonder if they could beat them again if they ran it back Dec 1st.

This is the talent composite sorted by average recruit ranking. If ND plays like it did against A&M again, I think they win again. If they play like they did against NIU, they get blown off the field.

 

[Irish4life]

I agree with what you're saying. But these are lifelong football players, just because you didn't get the proper cheerleading or pep talks all week doesn't mean you go out there as a 6'5 300lb DL and get pushed around by a 6'2 270 guy.

***All heights and weights have been made up....Just trying to shine a light on the fact that it should have been David Vs Goliath.

I completely disagree. Mentality, focusing on the task at hand, and making sure your team is well prepared to attack what's ahead of them are all crucial to being a consistent, winning program. It's something that Freeman has obviously not been able to do. There were a couple of snaps in the game where the DEFENSE (his bread and butter and the supposed strength of the team) couldn't line up correctly in the secondary.

 

[NDWarrior]

I was traveling all weekend and watched the game on a plane. I 100% remember this MF commentary to sideline reporter and asking myself WTF is that? This is not a good omen 😢 Just bizarre. Marcus Freeman's Riley Leonard comments spark controversy

 

[NDRock]

This is the talent composite sorted by average recruit ranking. If ND plays like it did against A&M again, I think they win again. If they play like they did against NIU, they get blown off the field.

The glaring stat in all that is the number of 5* players. As usual, we lag behind the elites. Same as with the Kellly years.

Either way, it was still NIU. We’re still average at most positions on offense (minus RB). Was hoping for 10-2 at the start of the year. Gonna be tough to get there.

 

[Kingbish01]

I completely disagree. Mentality, focusing on the task at hand, and making sure your team is well prepared to attack what's ahead of them are all crucial to being a consistent, winning program. It's something that Freeman has obviously not been able to do. There were a couple of snaps in the game where the DEFENSE (his bread and butter and the supposed strength of the team) couldn't line up correctly in the secondary.

I think we agree more than we disagree, but we are talking about NIU. If ND drops this one to say Pitt or Purdue I'd agree slightly more. Again, it's NIU.... if I (6'2 230) fought my 14 year old daughter (5'3 92lbs) in the front yard, I could line up incorrectly or not prepare like it's my 6,1 210 neighbor and I should still win. If I don't, I feel like it's 1000% on me...But maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Irish4life]

The glaring stat in all that is the number of 5* players. As usual, we lag behind the elites. Same as with the Kellly years.

Either way, it was still NIU. We’re still average at most positions on offense (minus RB). Was hoping for 10-2 at the start of the year. Gonna be tough to get there.

I never said this was on paper a better roster than Bama Georgia or OSU. Ultimately the most important thing is the number of future NFL players starting for your team, ND has a lot and should be good enough to handle NIU. It's a coaching issue....