'20 PA WR Julian Fleming (Ohio State Verbal)

[IrishinSyria]

What's going on at Ohio State? Their starting qb and this dude hitting the portal sounds like an exodus.

 

[Rizzophil]

What's going on at Ohio State? Their starting qb and this dude hitting the portal sounds like an exodus.

It happens everyhwere

College football is dying

 

[Free Manera]

What's going on at Ohio State? Their starting qb and this dude hitting the portal sounds like an exodus.

ND has literally no receivers lol. It's everywhere.

 

[IrishinSyria]

I mean ND and Ohio State could be pointing Spiderman gif right now.

I'd say we're not losing our starting qb but I guess we're just at the point where our starter is going to be a random 24 year old portal bro for the foreseeable future.

 

[anarin]

It happens everyhwere

College football is dying

No it doesn't! It only happens at ND, haven't you been reading this board the past week?

 

[T-Boone]

It happens everyhwere

College football is dying

Is it happening in the Ivy League?

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

College football is dying

Yeah, TAMU paying $120M to get rid of their coach and hire another one is a severe stab wound to the sport.

Oh, wait, you were talking about the 18-22 year old players having ability to change programs. Must be a Monday. I haven't had my afternoon caffeine.

 

[Irish#1]

Came here to bump because Fleming entered the transfer portal, and found the most recent messages about him never being a take because of grades interesting.

We need WRs, even if we get Kris Mitchell. Any chance the story changes with Fleming now? Has to be one of the best WRs in the portal, we did make his top-6, and it’d be nice to steal him away from another competing program.

Pffft.....We make everyone's top 6.

 

[Irish#1]

Isn't Fleming in-line to take a starting spot next year with Wilson & Olave leaving? Seems like a good deal with Stroud at QB.

This post didn't age well.

 

[T-Boone]

He hasn’t lived up to number 1 ranking out of high school obviously but is he any good at all?

 

[PANDFAN]

He hasn’t lived up to number 1 ranking out of high school obviously but is he any good at all?

yes, was limited in earlier years w/ injuries but played through.....he's very talented and can be productive...big bodied, good speed, hands but when you're bringing in 5* talent galore at the position, get passed up as the go to guy...

 

[T-Boone]

yes, was limited in earlier years w/ injuries but played through.....he's very talented and can be productive...big bodied, good speed, hands but when you're bringing in 5* talent galore at the position, get passed up as the go to guy...

Sounds like a guy who would go to Bama or USC

 

[irish4ever]

What's going on at Ohio State? Their starting qb and this dude hitting the portal sounds like an exodus.

Call it the Fuckin' Meatchicken Hex!

 

[Rizzophil]

Yeah, TAMU paying $120M to get rid of their coach and hire another one is a severe stab wound to the sport.

Oh, wait, you were talking about the 18-22 year old players having ability to change programs. Must be a Monday. I haven't had my afternoon caffeine.

I'm not saying it's poor. I'm not saying it's cheap.

I'm just saying the skills that kids USED to learn in college about patience, working hard, endurance, etc. are gone out the window. Freshman weren't even allowed to play in college back in the day to give them time to adjust and learn good life disciplines. Now, you can get get paid and play and get the respect of the coaches and leave when there's adversity.

I'm talking about THAT college football

 

[Huntr]

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

I'm not saying it's poor. I'm not saying it's cheap.

I'm just saying the skills that kids USED to learn in college about patience, working hard, endurance, etc. are gone out the window. Freshman weren't even allowed to play in college back in the day to give them time to adjust and learn good life disciplines. Now, you can get get paid and play and get the respect of the coaches and leave when there's adversity.

I'm talking about THAT college football

Ah yes, just stick with the status quo and work hard. Everything will be just fine. It's a great theory, but in looking at every situation on a case by case basis, a lot of these guys are going to leave toxic situations. They're going to exit from programs that have men leading them who many of us rip apart on this very board. Harbaugh, Franklin, Riley, Day, etc.

Kyle McCord got ripped apart by his own fan base for an entire year BEFORE he lost to Michigan and his coach is rolling him out the door for a better player. He should show patience, work hard and endure more of that why, exactly? Because generations prior to him had to? He was 11-1 and his coach told the media that they're open to looking at players everywhere and wouldn't commit to him starting the bowl game THIS year. His staying there benefits Ohio State and Ryan Day more than anyone if he's being relegated to QB2. He can go somewhere else to start for another year and cash in.

Julian Fleming has spent four years in the Ohio State program. He has a year left. He should be able to take that year where he wants to and learn about life.

These athletes are commodities. They may as well be numbers on a spreadsheet. It's been that way for decades. The idea that they finally have some leverage and ability to do what they want without restriction irritates people like Dabo Swinney, who thinks everyone else is the problem and how dare anyone mention how much HE gets paid, and all the other curmudgeons that can't stand that people are being afforded privilege they didn't have.

Ryan Day is learning about adversity. After losing to Michigan three years in a row, instead of coaching better, he's shopping for new players. It's ok because he's an adult millionaire white man who dyes his beard and yells at old men like Lou Holtz, though, because he overcame life's challenges playing at New Hampshire in the late 90s.

This is one example. There are countless others and will continue to be. You can't ask one group of people to work hard and suck it up but afford another group of people to be able to carry on however they want. College football is a business. It isn't about education. It really even isn't about sport anymore. This is all going to take some getting used to for everyone, but the idea that these players should just shut up and say "thank you sir may I have another" is a crock of shit.

 

[Rizzophil]

Ah yes, just stick with the status quo and work hard. Everything will be just fine. It's a great theory, but in looking at every situation on a case by case basis, a lot of these guys are going to leave toxic situations. They're going to exit from programs that have men leading them who many of us rip apart on this very board. Harbaugh, Franklin, Riley, Day, etc.

Kyle McCord got ripped apart by his own fan base for an entire year BEFORE he lost to Michigan and his coach is rolling him out the door for a better player. He should show patience, work hard and endure more of that why, exactly? Because generations prior to him had to? He was 11-1 and his coach told the media that they're open to looking at players everywhere and wouldn't commit to him starting the bowl game THIS year. His staying there benefits Ohio State and Ryan Day more than anyone if he's being relegated to QB2. He can go somewhere else to start for another year and cash in.

Julian Fleming has spent four years in the Ohio State program. He has a year left. He should be able to take that year where he wants to and learn about life.

These athletes are commodities. They may as well be numbers on a spreadsheet. It's been that way for decades. The idea that they finally have some leverage and ability to do what they want without restriction irritates people like Dabo Swinney, who thinks everyone else is the problem and how dare anyone mention how much HE gets paid, and all the other curmudgeons that can't stand that people are being afforded privilege they didn't have.

Ryan Day is learning about adversity. After losing to Michigan three years in a row, instead of coaching better, he's shopping for new players. It's ok because he's an adult millionaire white man who dyes his beard and yells at old men like Lou Holtz, though, because he overcame life's challenges playing at New Hampshire in the late 90s.

This is one example. There are countless others and will continue to be. You can't ask one group of people to work hard and suck it up but afford another group of people to be able to carry on however they want. College football is a business. It isn't about education. It really even isn't about sport anymore. This is all going to take some getting used to for everyone, but the idea that these players should just shut up and say "thank you sir may I have another" is a crock of shit.

Who said thank you say may I have another in quotes ?

 

[Fbolt]

Ryan Day is white?

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Ryan Day is white?

Everything but the beard.

 

[Irish#1]

Kids wanted to get paid and free agency in CFB and they got it. I don't begrudge them one bit and more power to them. With that, they can't complain when coaches go looking to upgrade/replace them. It's a two way street.

 

[NDpendent]

Ryan Day is white?

Why is this in italics and why is there a question mark instead of an exclamation

 

[jpachuta33]

Soooo.... Any reported interest on Fleming??

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Ah yes, just stick with the status quo and work hard. Everything will be just fine. It's a great theory, but in looking at every situation on a case by case basis, a lot of these guys are going to leave toxic situations. They're going to exit from programs that have men leading them who many of us rip apart on this very board. Harbaugh, Franklin, Riley, Day, etc.

Kyle McCord got ripped apart by his own fan base for an entire year BEFORE he lost to Michigan and his coach is rolling him out the door for a better player. He should show patience, work hard and endure more of that why, exactly? Because generations prior to him had to? He was 11-1 and his coach told the media that they're open to looking at players everywhere and wouldn't commit to him starting the bowl game THIS year. His staying there benefits Ohio State and Ryan Day more than anyone if he's being relegated to QB2. He can go somewhere else to start for another year and cash in.

Julian Fleming has spent four years in the Ohio State program. He has a year left. He should be able to take that year where he wants to and learn about life.

These athletes are commodities. They may as well be numbers on a spreadsheet. It's been that way for decades. The idea that they finally have some leverage and ability to do what they want without restriction irritates people like Dabo Swinney, who thinks everyone else is the problem and how dare anyone mention how much HE gets paid, and all the other curmudgeons that can't stand that people are being afforded privilege they didn't have.

Ryan Day is learning about adversity. After losing to Michigan three years in a row, instead of coaching better, he's shopping for new players. It's ok because he's an adult millionaire white man who dyes his beard and yells at old men like Lou Holtz, though, because he overcame life's challenges playing at New Hampshire in the late 90s.

This is one example. There are countless others and will continue to be. You can't ask one group of people to work hard and suck it up but afford another group of people to be able to carry on however they want. College football is a business. It isn't about education. It really even isn't about sport anymore. This is all going to take some getting used to for everyone, but the idea that these players should just shut up and say "thank you sir may I have another" is a crock of shit.

This post was so close to perfect but it hit a sour note. What if Ryan Day was an adult millionaire black man who dyes his beard and yells at other old men. Would his position be more acceptable? Of course not.

A person's negotiated (or stated) identity does not somehow vindicate a bad position. Those with the money, talent and connections want to keep those things. Those who previously only had talent before had to give it up to prove their worth and durability before earning money on top of their free education.

Now they get to start capitalizing on their value earlier than ever before. And good for them. The scales are balancing, albeit at such a breakneck pace, it can be unstable and uncomfortable as we hope to see a low-volatility market where everyone plays by the same rules, on and off the field.

Do you believe the new rules are only positive? I think there is a middle ground here. Players no longer have guardrails incentivizing commitment and making the "hard" decision. But in turn, they are able to make money and bail whenever they see fit. There are no solutions, only tradeoffs. I hope these young men are able to find ways of developing those attributes while also earning what the market allows.

And finally, I hope ND, and it's players, are able to capitalize on this more than anyone else. Go Irish!

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

It's a two way street.

This.

Before, you'd have to go out and recruit your new guys. Now you can pluck them and plug them in even faster. Coaches know this. Kirby Smart flat out set it a year ago. Recruiting a five star QB is no longer a sense of urgency when you can just go get one in The Portal. He was about to become a two time national champ and didn't lose a game for nearly three years.

 

[ColinKSU]

Kids wanted to get paid and free agency in CFB and they got it. I don't begrudge them one bit and more power to them. With that, they can't complain when coaches go looking to upgrade/replace them. It's a two way street.

Absolutely. Kyle McCord made *a lot* of NIL money last season to convince Ohio State that they needed to upgrade at the position.

Welcome to pro sports, kid.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

This post was so close to perfect but it hit a sour note. What if Ryan Day was an adult millionaire black man who dyes his beard and yells at other old men. Would his position be more acceptable? Of course not.

A person's negotiated (or stated) identity does not somehow vindicate a bad position. Those with the money, talent and connections want to keep those things. Those who previously only had talent before had to give it up to prove their worth and durability before earning money on top of their free education.

Now they get to start capitalizing on their value earlier than ever before. And good for them. The scales are balancing, albeit at such a breakneck pace, it can be unstable and uncomfortable as we hope to see a low-volatility market where everyone plays by the same rules, on and off the field.

Do you believe the new rules are only positive? I think there is a middle ground here. Players no longer have guardrails incentivizing commitment and making the "hard" decision. But in turn, they are able to make money and bail whenever they see fit. There are no solutions, only tradeoffs. I hope these young men are able to find ways of developing those attributes while also earning what the market allows.

And finally, I hope ND, and it's players, are able to capitalize on this more than anyone else. Go Irish!

Ryan Day is part of the demographic that makes up most of college football coaching, especially the head coaches at P5 schools. I'd venture to guess the overwhelming majority of players he's been paid millions to coach are black and middle class white that need football. It may very well be subconscious, but these athletes being able to maximize their value financially is being met with push back from fans that comes from a place of anger and jealousy because it's something that isn't being afforded to them. It's no different than the professionals being made millionaires and fans calling them overpaid. Nevermind the billionaire owner signed off on the deal to give that player the money. Regular fans feel that these athletes just wake up every morning with "God Given" talent and there isn't hard work behind the scenes being done to get there. Yes, some athletes are born with certain physical traits they didn't have a choice in. They do choose to work harder on their bodies, nutrition and skill sets in their respective sports.

Do I believe this is all positive? No, and as time goes on we're going to see some worse case scenarios play out that will be guidelines for these athletes on what NOT to do. There will be trails blazed that athletes will NOT want to follow. I think some guys will obviously make hasty exits from their respective programs for reasons ranging from lack of early playing time to grades, but I also KNOW that many of these boys are lied to on the recruiting trail and when they get to campus it isn't anything remote to what they were told. That's a problem. Recruiting is building trust, and too many of these adult coaches making six figures or millions (both black and white guys) break that trust by lying from the outset. Recruits and their parents only know what they know. I think the Portal gives you an exit to these situations, and there are many.

My biggest pain point, however is like @Irish#1 says: it's a two way street. For all the people that what to project on the players that all they need to do is work hard and get better, there are going to be coaches who are going to go out and replace them with their minds already made up. Ryan Day wants to find a better option than Kyle McCord at QB. Kyle McCord just played 12 games and won 11. He put up great numbers. Previously, he's starting the Cotton Bowl and is the guy to beat in Spring Ball and August Camp. Those days are gone now.

Steve Angeli may very well have maxed out his ability at ND. The best he can do is be QB2 where he comes in during garbage time or due to injury. If he can go to Rutgers or Monmouth or wherever to be the starter and they would have him, I don't see what any of us would have to fret about. He's moving to a better opportunity, and that's what a lot of adulthood ends up being about. This idea that these kids are entitled, enabled and this is all the pussification of society just seems like misdirected projection coming from people that see others getting what they do not have.

For McCord and Angeli, you then have the FCS guys too. It's an entirely different world despite any similarities. They're one of the dogs that gets to the bowl last. The guys like Tony Romo and Jimmy Garroppolo cease to exist now. Today, after his sophomore year, Tony and Jimmy are both probably being hounded by MAC if not Big Ten coaches. Those small school feel good stories are probably over now. Like that OL from Rhode Island that had his pick of P5 schools a year ago, for example.

I believe there is middle ground. We're going to see examples of guys who did the right thing and we're going to see some stories of cautionary tales. This post Covid group of athletes are going to have to be the ones that mark off examples for future athletes that come after them, and down the road they'll probably be the ones complaining about how tough they had it and how these guys should all pull up their bootstraps and just work hard, show grit and grind out the situation. It's a never ending cycle that gets passed along.

 

[OhioIrish]

Soooo.... Any reported interest on Fleming??

Would love to know, but have been sifting through the speech-making instead. I’ll try to report back when I get to the end, if there is still any air in the room.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Would love to know, but have been sifting through the speech-making instead. I’ll try to report back when I get to the end, if there is still any air in the room.

I ran out of Porker jokes. Plus I figured paragraphs and fancy words would scare off the trolls. 100% fucking deliberate. You'll live.

Nothing concrete on Fleming, but zero mention of ND for this guy thus far. USC and Penn State are where most arrows seem to point but that's based on speculation more than substance. He's been in the portal for a day.

 

[PANDFAN]

would love to know, but have been sifting through the speech-making instead. I’ll try to report back when I get to the end, if there is still any air in the room.

NONE, never even liked ND

 

[Fbolt]

Yeah, I didn't write that ⬆️