Marcus Freeman Revisited

AllTimeIrish

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I think I am out on Marcus Freeman. It may be too early for me to say that, but you can tell the mistakes keep piling up, and his choice of OC has trashed the chances for a really good season and wasted a good QB transfer. It's like he has never coached football and lacks instincts in certain areas.
 

ThePiombino

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I think I am out on Marcus Freeman. It may be too early for me to say that, but you can tell the mistakes keep piling up, and his choice of OC has trashed the chances for a really good season and wasted a good QB transfer. It's like he has never coached football and lacks instincts in certain areas.
It all comes down to the choice he made and will make at OC. With an experienced, quality OC, SO MANY of Freeman's warts could have been covered up. He needed a Golden on offense, pure and simple. Instead, for whatever reason, he went down the hall and elevated a guy who couldn't cut it at West Virginia and (literally) not another P5 school wanted as OC. That's not a recipe for success. We can blame Freeman, Jack, admin, etc. Doesn't matter - what's done is done. But it needs to be corrected.

I'm not out on Freeman just yet because of the intangibles he brings to the position, but I will 100% be out on him if he either retains Parker as OC in any capacity and/or elevates someone already on staff. Basically, anything short of a true EXTERNAL homerun hire and it's over for him as far as I'm concerned.

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Irishdrunk

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The honeymoon is over. The doubters grow. The lessons learned. The University's Commitment to the Program is being laid bare. Experience matters.
 

DillonHall

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The honeymoon is over. The doubters grow. The lessons learned. The University's Commitment to the Program is being laid bare. Experience matters.
Brian Kelly was at ND for so long that everyone forgot about the Charlie Weis experiment. Simply can't learn on the job at ND

I still support Marcus and won't be a vocal critic this offseason, but the honeymoon is definitely over
 

PutuporShutup

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It all comes down to the choice he made and will make at OC. With an experienced, quality OC, SO MANY of Freeman's warts could have been covered up. He needed a Golden on offense, pure and simple. Instead, for whatever reason, he went down the hall and elevated a guy who couldn't cut it at West Virginia and (literally) not another P5 school wanted as OC. That's not a recipe for success. We can blame Freeman, Jack, admin, etc. Doesn't matter - what's done is done. But it needs to be corrected.

I'm not out on Freeman just yet because of the intangibles he brings to the position, but I will 100% be out on him if he either retains Parker as OC in any capacity and/or elevates someone already on staff. Basically, anything short of a true EXTERNAL homerun hire and it's over for him as far as I'm concerned.

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This is where I'm at. I think Freeman can be an amazing CEO/Leader of ND's program but he absolutely needs a STUD OC and DC, I 100% believe/know this.

I know some people will say, he was a DC and he can help out a young up and coming DC. NOPE, as much as I want to retain mickens, i don't think it's a good move if golden leaves to just promote him. I honestly think freeman was overatted as DC. Kelly had to step in and make him modify his D after the FSU/Toledo games to start his tenure at ND. What kelly had to do with freeman when he was struggling, freeman can't do with an OC.

We need a STUD DC and OC. I don't want to see ND go get a stud OC only to have golden leave and we hire mickens and the D takes a step back. I think golden is the glue to the defense, obviously not the best recruiter, but we have some good ones there.

Don't want to see the below as the defensive staff for 2024. I would not be confident in a unified D.

Mickens
Washington
O'Leary
another position coach
 

BleedBlueGold

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I kinda hate* that the Freeman pathway greatly resembles the Dabo arc.





*subject to pulling a generational QB and winning 2 nattys

The path to success for ND is much more in line with Clemson's than that of Georgia, Bama, or OSU. Not sure what you're expecting to see? ND will never be the latter.
 

Kingbish01

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The path to success for ND is much more in line with Clemson's than that of Georgia, Bama, or OSU. Not sure what you're expecting to see? ND will never be the latter.
You're not wrong, but a young Caleb Williams (or any stud QB) and a decent OC.....could definitely have this program capable of going 25-1 over 2 years. It just seems that the stars never align, even when they seem so close.
 

dang227

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I believe Freeman will be fine. Reminds me of when Kirby Smart took over Georgia. Recruited well but took a ton of criticism for his in-game coaching. Made good hires, learned on the job, kept recruiting, and Georgia stuck with him. Not going to lie that our two no shows this year vs "Ville and Clemson on the road are concerning but have to give him time. Four years of his guys and this team will be loaded. Parker on the other hand can GTFO.
 

ThePiombino

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You're not wrong, but a young Caleb Williams (or any stud QB) and a decent OC.....could definitely have this program capable of going 25-1 over 2 years. It just seems that the stars never align, even when they seem so close.
IMO, this is more an indictment on the school than the program or any individual coach. ND systematically limits its own ability to be successful. Even though the football program is the reason anyone even knows the school exists (sorry, don't mean to trigger the academics, but it's true). God forbid the tail wag the dog. It's infuriating. ND can have both a successful, dominant football program AND be an elite academic institution. It's not a zero-sum game. So enough with the self-flagellation ffs...
 

Katzenboyer

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I believe Freeman will be fine. Reminds me of when Kirby Smart took over Georgia. Recruited well but took a ton of criticism for his in-game coaching. Made good hires, learned on the job, kept recruiting, and Georgia stuck with him. Not going to lie that our two no shows this year vs "Ville and Clemson on the road are concerning but have to give him time. Four years of his guys and this team will be loaded. Parker on the other hand can GTFO.

The Kirby comparisons might have been apt last year. But Smart took UGA to the national championship his second year on the job. We're no where close to that right now.
 

PutuporShutup

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I believe Freeman will be fine. Reminds me of when Kirby Smart took over Georgia. Recruited well but took a ton of criticism for his in-game coaching. Made good hires, learned on the job, kept recruiting, and Georgia stuck with him. Not going to lie that our two no shows this year vs "Ville and Clemson on the road are concerning but have to give him time. Four years of his guys and this team will be loaded. Parker on the other hand can GTFO.
Kinda agree other than Georgia took a HUGE step forward in Kirby's second year. That's clearly not the case with Freeman in his second year.

Kirby's teams were beatable until he had 4-5 years of his talent build up, so that's a valid point, but kirby had his team ready almost every game. He seemed to have that one bad game every year. Freeman hasn't shown the ability for ND to be ready to play pretty much every game.
 

ThePiombino

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Kinda agree other than Georgia took a HUGE step forward in Kirby's second year. That's clearly not the case with Freeman in his second year.

Kirby's teams were beatable until he had 4-5 years of his talent build up, so that's a valid point, but kirby had his team ready almost every game. He seemed to have that one bad game every year. Freeman hasn't shown the ability for ND to be ready to play pretty much every game.
Kirby wasn't hamstrung by his OC. We'd be saying Freeman took a huge step this season if not for Parker.

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PutuporShutup

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Kirby wasn't hamstring by his OC. We'd be saying Freeman took a huge step this season if not for Parker.

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Jim Chaney is probably available lol

Yes the admin screwed up the OC hiring, but freeman believed in Parker. So in part, he did this to himself and the program.

I believed that Parker would at least have common sense and let Hartman pretty much run the offense and mask his weaknesses. Boy I was wrong. I thought our offense would by awesome this year, and fail next year, and 2024 would be the year parker would get canned.
 

Kingbish01

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Because the university doesn't want to be like them.
Understood, but one recruit (pref a QB) here....and one OC there....and we have a 3 year run like UGA. I just don't feel ND is that far off....But maybe it's like thinking all your kids are adorable when nobody else does...haha
 

PutuporShutup

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Understood, but one recruit (pref a QB) here....and one OC there....and we have a 3 year run like UGA. I just don't feel ND is that far off....But maybe it's like thinking all your kids are adorable when nobody else does...haha
The schedule the next 2 years most likely will not be as challenging as this year or last.
 

BleedBlueGold

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Understood, but one recruit (pref a QB) here....and one OC there....and we have a 3 year run like UGA. I just don't feel ND is that far off....But maybe it's like thinking all your kids are adorable when nobody else does...haha

That's the Clemson model. A top QB and top coordinators that propped up Dabo. Then capitalize on that success by recruiting at a high level. Rinse and repeat.

I think ND was one elite OC away from making a CFP run this year. I think they squandered Golden's defense. I think they squandered Hartman and his abilities, essentially setting him up to fail. This team may not "win" it all, but they were positioned to compete against college football's weakest top tier teams in recent memory, imo.

Freeman needs to continue to bring in top talent (and get better at closing on more blue chip recruits). He also needs to get the best coordinators possible and not just settle. I'd also argue that he needs to get out of his own way when it comes to overthinking clock management and the identity he wants.
 

PutuporShutup

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and healthy WRs. We could not afford to lose Thomas and think we would be able to win it all, contend yes, but not win it all.
 

FightingIrishLover7

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I genuinely think Freeman knows very little about how to run an offense.

I also believe that Kirby Smart was this way for a long time too.

Things can change, if the right leader, makes the right choices.
 

Kingbish01

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That's the Clemson model. A top QB and top coordinators that propped up Dabo. Then capitalize on that success by recruiting at a high level. Rinse and repeat.

I think ND was one elite OC away from making a CFP run this year. I think they squandered Golden's defense. I think they squandered Hartman and his abilities, essentially setting him up to fail. This team may not "win" it all, but they were positioned to compete against college football's weakest top tier teams in recent memory, imo.

Freeman needs to continue to bring in top talent (and get better at closing on more blue chip recruits). He also needs to get the best coordinators possible and not just settle. I'd also argue that he needs to get out of his own way when it comes to overthinking clock management and the identity he wants.
Clemson model and even the Patriots model. Good QB's and good coordinators should be a no brainer. My biggest gripe, and I've said this on this board for a decade. I'll NEVER understand why the University of Notre Dame can't land one of the top 5 HS QB's every single year without fail. My buddies seem to think that these HS kids don't look at ND like us old heads do. This isn't the 40's, everyone is on TV, haven't won in 30+ years...blah blah blah and all good points. But it's still a MASSIVE platform for a HS QB, and ND has been winning a lot lately. Why we always end up with BUMS (no offense to Book and others that have produced) just baffles me. You land "Trevor Lawrence" you land stud WR/RB/TE. Let's forget NIL for a minute as that's obviously messed up things for players like Dante Moore. But for years before that, I never could understand how this could be the case.
 

NDdomer2

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I genuinely think Freeman knows very little about how to run an offense.

I also believe that Kirby Smart was this way for a long time too.

Things can change, if the right leader, makes the right choices.
Do I need to remind everyone that he was nearly speechless when asked about his offensive philosophy at his introductory press conference.
 
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