'08 IL LB Brett Nagel (Northwestern Verbal)

BGIF

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... Listen, I think it would be great if Brett Nagle were to get an offer, and he would probably accept it on the spot, but the coaching staff has commitments to the 7 guys they already offered, and that commitment does not end until these guys verbal to someone else, or NSD, whichever comes first. ...

Excuse me, but BS!

ND has made a "No other offers to LBs" Pact with 7 (8) guys?

Since when has an ND offer become a unilateral commitment obligation on ND?

ND is free to extend offers to whomever, whenever. Prospects are free to accept, reject, or ponder til NSD. The 8 LBs offered are in the same boat Mustain was. IF the slots are filled before they're ready they won't get an ND scholarship regardless of an offer. Jevon Kearse can attest to that better than Mustain can.

... It is Brett Nagel’s choice to decide early, his current scholarship offers will remain in place all the way to NSD, so he could conceivably wait until then to see if an ND spot opens up. You can’t blame him for not waiting, and you can’t blame the coaching staff for not offering until they are sure they have an available spot. ...

Maybe, Maybe not. Those other offers are NOT guaranteed either. Offers at other schools get rescinded as slots get filled. Urban (and others) dump verbals for better prospects. Keep in mind a number of events triggered Brian Smith's second chance. A couple of high profile recruits said NO late in the game and Minter was axed. ND has more LB offers out already this year. They appear to be in better shape with those offered. There are others eager for an ND offer and they aren't as eager as Nagel to pull the trigger.

Right now ND has 4 or 5 LB slots OPEN. All the slots are available. "If you're looking; we're looking!"
 
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johnnd05

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Excuse me, but BS!

ND has made a "No other offers to LBs" Pact with 7 (8) guys?

Since when has an ND offer become a unilateral commitment obligation on ND?

ND is free to extend offers to whomever, whenever. Prospects are free to accept, reject, or ponder til NSD. The 8 LBs offered are in the same boat Mustain was. IF the slots are filled before they're ready they won't get an ND scholarship regardless of an offer. Jevon Kearse can attest to that better than Mustain can.

[...]

Those other offers are guaranteed either. Offers at other schools get rescinded as slots get filled. Urban (and others) dump verbals for better prospects. Keep in mind a number of events triggered Brian Smith's second chance. A couple of high profile recruits said NO late in the game and Minter was axed. ND has more LB offers out already this year. They appear to be in better shape with those offered. There are others eager for an ND offer and they aren't as eager as Nagel to pull the trigger.

Right now ND has 4 or 5 LB slots OPEN. All the slots are available. "If you're looking; we're looking!"

I think IUB's point is that the staff has other guys that they want more than Nagel, and so they don't want to offer Nagel and have him commit and take up a schollie that could have been used for one of them. (Right?) We're not going to offer him and then pull it, Meyer-style, if something better comes up down the line. So the point isn't that we have a "No other LB offers" pact with the other guys we've offered -- though we might do something like that if they'd committed! -- but that they're regarded as especially high-priority and we're just not a school that will throw around scholarship offers like candy. This all seems pretty much uncontroversial to me.

Fankly, at the end of the day I'm not exactly sure that the argument between BGIF and IUB really comes to ...
 

irishunclebill

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Excuse me, but BS!

ND has made a "No other offers to LBs" Pact with 7 (8) guys?

Since when has an ND offer become a unilateral commitment obligation on ND?

ND is free to extend offers to whomever, whenever. Prospects are free to accept, reject, or ponder til NSD. The 8 LBs offered are in the same boat Mustain was. IF the slots are filled before they're ready they won't get an ND scholarship regardless of an offer. Jevon Kearse can attest to that better than Mustain can.



Maybe, Maybe not. Those other offers are guaranteed either. Offers at other schools get rescinded as slots get filled. Urban (and others) dump verbals for better prospects. Keep in mind a number of events triggered Brian Smith's second chance. A couple of high profile recruits said NO late in the game and Minter was axed. ND has more LB offers out already this year. They appear to be in better shape with those offered. There are others eager for an ND offer and they aren't as eager as Nagel to pull the trigger.

Right now ND has 4 or 5 LB slots OPEN. All the slots are available. "If you're looking; we're looking!"

BGIF- Everthing you said is your opinion, but you are the expert, so if you want to nitpick a comment to death, be my guest. I'm really not sure what point you are trying to make anyway, but I will point out that if you are so correct, then why in fact has the coaching staff not offered every LB out there. The answer obcourse is guys like Nagel and LeGrand would probably accept on the spot and fill 2 of the 4 or 5 slots that you say are OPEN. If you ever listen to CW talk about offers he makes, he does make them sound like committments on the part of ND, if you want to call that a "unilateral commitment" then as I said, be my guest.

Nagel has nothing to do with Smith, so again I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. Smith was told that there was no interest by the coaching staff, and so he committed to Iowa. I don't know (maybe you do) that the same has been said to Nagel, but it seems more likely that Nagel has been told that if a spot opens up at the end, he will get an offer. If he can't wait for that, then that is up to him. Oh and by the way, opinions are opinions, so don't go throwing around a BS on them unless you are willing to accept one in return.
 

kjones

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No, I was going by some info that I found on Scout. But I probably shouldn't post it since I am pretty sure that Info (it being March) was premium info, and we don't want to get their panties in a bunch.

I still can't believe it's only freaking March...
 
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RichardRiot

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BGIF- Everthing you said is your opinion.....

He did say 'excuse me'...:meditate:

Oh, I thought that smiley was a mediate....

I think that BGIF's point is fundamentally correct: none of the outstanding offers are 'guaranteed' for any period......otherwise, if every 'offered' player decided to verbal, Coach Weis would have a BIG problem.

I would expect that as the train starts to fill up in certain areas, the staff will nudge certain players that they need to make their minds up otherwise there may not be a spot. High-end recruits will have more leeway.

It does appear that Coach Weis is different than some other coaches; Meyer had about 500 DL offers out last year but only took a couple of handfuls (and was rumored to have have done some nudging aside).
 

irishunclebill

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He did say 'excuse me'...:meditate:

Oh, I thought that smiley was a mediate....

I think that BGIF's point is fundamentally correct: none of the outstanding offers are 'guaranteed' for any period......otherwise, if every 'offered' player decided to verbal, Coach Weis would have a BIG problem.

I would expect that as the train starts to fill up in certain areas, the staff will nudge certain players that they need to make their minds up otherwise there may not be a spot. High-end recruits will have more leeway.

It does appear that Coach Weis is different than some other coaches; Meyer had about 500 DL offers out last year but only took a couple of handfuls (and was rumored to have have done some nudging aside).

Oh, I hate to do this because I'm still not sure what I said earlier that made BGIF so pissed, but since I am a glutton for punishment, I'll do it anyway.

BGIF is fundamentally correct in what he posted, but what I posted was also correct. That is why the BS irked me. He is fundamentally correct only because it is usually not an issue at ND. A scholarship offer is not guaranteed for any period, but it is still an open offer until rescinded. Presumably, the minute a recruit "solid verbals" to another school, the offer is fundamentally rescinded. The point I was trying to make is that CW gives all appearances that he would prefer not to rescind scholarship offers to recruits who have not yet committed to another school. As far as I know and I could easily be wrong, he has not yet been forced to do that since coming to ND. This year could be different.

This whole offer process is not a whole lot different than the regular admissions process at many colleges. They look at the statistical history of admiited vs. enrolled students, set a target for how many they want enrolled, and then use that target to determine how many applicants they will accept. ND has one of the highest enrollment/admitted rates in the country at around 60%, if that number hit 80% in any given year, they would be looking at enrolling 600 more students than they expected. The process is similar with athletic scholarship offers accept that they can be rescinded at any time. However, CW does not appear to want to be a greedy SOB like the Cockwad. Last year, Meyer's % of recruits who wanted to come to Florida was much higher than normal, but instead of rescinding offers to late uncommitteds when his scholarships were filled up, he started to push guys away who had already committed. Naive that I am, I do not see CW doing that. Meyer also compounded the issue by not actually rescinding the offers for two reasons, one, he wanted to look like a good guy who would never do that, and two, he wanted to keep all his options open. That is why he was able to nab Trattou at the last moment. It is also why he was still recruiting Ian Williams up to NSD eve, even though he had earlier told Williams to look elsewhere, but had never actually rescinded his scholarship offer. Now again naive person that I am, someone is going to tell me that it is all part of the recruiting process and should be accepted. I say that is BS. What Meyer did last year was not illegal or an NCAA violation, but that does not make it any less unethical or distasteful, and not everyone does it. Mack Brown does not do it, and I hope to hell CW never has to do it. I will leave you with one hypothetical situation that is somwhat far-fetched but within the realm of possibility, and you tell me what you think CW would do in this situation.

Suppose all of the currently LB's offered accepted prior to NSD with the exception of Brown & Hale. That would give ND 5 LB's from this class not even counting tweeners like Fleming et al (assuming they commit as well). It comes to NSD, ND still has 2 scholarships available, and Brown & Hale are still uncomitted, and they both call CW and tell him they want to come to Notre Dame as well. Do you really think that CW would turn down 2 of arguably the 3 best LB's in the country, and at the same time do you also think he would start pushing the other 5 LB commits to other programs, or worse if he had no schollies left to offer, would he dump Beal & Sweat in order to get Brown & Hale. It's just my opinion, but I don't think so, and I hope not.

Now granted this hypothetical is very unlikely, and that is exactly why what BGIF stated was fundamentally correct, but it is also exactly why what I stated is not BS.

I hope I don't get another BS thrown my way.:)
 
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seniorle

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IUB, I think Weis has already answered your question. He turned down Mustain, the pretty unanimous #1 QB in the class (and in the top 5 overall on my lists) :)

CW stands by what he says, doesn't matter who it is. If he says you have a scholly and you stay true to him, he'll stay true to you - no exceptions.
 

jiggafini19

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Colorado State, Indiana, Stanford, Northwestern, Purdue, Vanderbilt, Kansas State and Colorado have offered.

I like Northwestern here, but keep an eye on Stanford.
 

irishunclebill

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Brett Nagel is obviously still hoping for an ND offer and he is now apparently willing to wait for one, which if what Gallup reported about Pocic issuing a deadline, differentiates the two Illinois athletes. Brett has indicated all along that he would like to make an early decision, and this tactic may have been used to try to coax an offer out of Notre Dame. When it became obvious that ND was not going to offer any more LB's until more of the current offers decide, Brett has pushed back his decision, and is now even planning on attending an ND camp this summer. Brett like his brother is a quality kid who would be a great contributor to the Irish, and he may still get the opportunity to get a chance to play with his brother, either because ND is not successful in recruiting the likes of Sweat, Filer, Beal, Brown, et al, or even better because he is so impressive at camp, that the staff determines he is their equal in potential ability. Either way, it appears that Brett unlike Pocic (again if the story is correct) is willing to wait, and in his case, he may have to wait a lot longer than Pocic would have had to wait.

BTW, Nick , if you read this, I'm not doubting the story about Pocic, I just have not had a chance to check the source.
 

GoshenGipper

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I don't know anything about him personally, but Brett seems like a really good kid that would love to play at ND. Needless to say I am rooting for him to get an offer at some point. Hopefully if he does it will be because he has improved his play enough to put himself on an equal level with the other offered LBs.
 

johnnd05

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Free Scout article here. Unsurprisingly, we're not on his list.

The fact that we haven't offered him despite striking out on Sabino et al is probably a pretty solid sign that we're done on defense, huh?
 
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