Brian Kelly to LSU, per report

[ACamp1900]

If anyone here wants a big boy red beans and rice and cornbread recipe just let me know,……….

 

[forkbeard3777]

If anyone here wants a big boy red beans and rice and cornbread recipe just let me know,……….

Only on Monday’s. And don’t you dare mix that cornpone in the beans, cher.

 

[INLaw]

If anyone here wants a big boy red beans and rice and cornbread recipe just let me know,……….

https://res.cloudinary.com/teepubli...v1616477399/production/designs/20485043_0.jpg

 

[ND88]

Why? How stupid. This is a good board w great posters like you. I don’t want to wager against my team.

Sorry you are upset 😘

I’m not upset. Look at it more as a friendly wager.

If Notre Dame makes the playoffs, it’s a win for us both. Yea, you gotta leave the board, but you’ll survive as a happier fan of a playoff bound squad that you claim to love.

If they don’t, you still win, because it will back up your incessant argument that Freeman doesn’t have the fortitude of Kelly and is just another lackey of an admin. holding back the team from being truly elite. Plus, it’s one less poster holding your shit to the fire.

I’m the push that’s come to shove. I love this board and the community here. I’ve been here a long time. Longer than my sign-up date. Have seen a lot of posters come and go, plenty of self-righteous ones who can’t help themselves. You’d be a fine poster if you decided that “being right” was less important than being balanced.

So my wager is on the table. I’m willing to hang up my cleats, if you are. I’m not afraid.

Notre Dame will make the playoffs this year.

 

[Irishdrunk]

ND88 - I love this Board & community too. Great info, great debate. Yea some of the posters are annoying and some come and go.

I don’t place negative bets on the teams I love. I think it’s pretty stupid.

Thank you and I wish you well.

 

[irish4ever]

Notre Dame had the better coach and better teams in both of those games.

That said, I still say that LSU was robbed out of that Music City Bowl game, which was ridiculously cold. We just happened to have Fournette who was unstoppable. Anthony Jennings, God bless him, was one of Miles' worst quarterbacks. How we challenged Alabama that year I'll never know,

But, at the end of the day, I still blame Les Miles and Orgeron (and Miles Boykin for making that ridiculous catch) for those games.

WTF, just because (as the favorite) LSU got out coached and out played and all of a sudden they were "robbed"? What kind of whine-bag statement is that?!?

 

[Irish du Nord]

WTF, just because (as the favorite) LSU got out coached and out played and all of a sudden they were "robbed"? What kind of whine-bag statement is that?!?

We got robbed out of the 2018 cotton bowl because Ian Book was worse than Trevor Lawrence

 

[forkbeard3777]

WTF, just because (as the favorite) LSU got out coached and out played and all of a sudden they were "robbed"? What kind of whine-bag statement is that?!?

It isn't a "whine-bag" statement. It's the Music City Bowl; thus, I really don't lose sleep over it.

I admitted that LSU was outplayed and outcoached. I even said that Notre Dame had the better coach...our offense was essentially just Leonard Fournette.

But, right before the end of the first half, LSU attempted a fake field goal and clearly scored a touchdown. The referees, however, left their eyeglasses at home, and ruled Kragthorpe's knee down on the one-yard line, which gave Notre Dame the 21-14 lead at half. That took seven points off the board. It was a poor call that took a touchdown off the board.

Again, I do admit that Notre Dame was the better and more prepared team that day, but, in the grand scheme of things, it's the Music City Bowl...who cares?

Link to AL.com Article
Link to various Tweets in regard to that play.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

 

[Giddyup]

Recruiting is awesome

 

[forkbeard3777]

Recruiting is awesome

Whatever it takes…he’s done very well so far (both recruiting and transfers). I don’t know how these coaches do it. I couldn’t imagine having to visit with and sell my my program to teenagers.

 

[IrishLion]

BK got tired of recruiting at ND, and didn't hold his staff accountable, either. Talent level dropped off wayyyyyyy more than just "THE ADMIN IS SCREWING US" accounts for (cough @Irishdrunk cough)

This is where MFMF can make up ground, even if he's not able to reach the heights we had hoped due to NIL. He can still stack top-100 talent better than BK did late in his tenure, and is currently on a great pace in that regard.

 

[Katzenboyer]

Read that ISD article myself this morning and had the same thought.

BK just got tired of recruiting at ND. Sucks, but it is what it is.

 

[phillyirish]

BK got tired of recruiting at ND, and didn't hold his staff accountable, either. Talent level dropped off wayyyyyyy more than just "THE ADMIN IS SCREWING US" accounts for (cough @Irishdrunk cough)

This is where MFMF can make up ground, even if he's not able to reach the heights we had hoped due to NIL. He can still stack top-100 talent better than BK did late in his tenure, and is currently on a great pace in that regard.

Bro, there’s been a total of two drafts since that game vs Cincinnati, of course more players were drafted in the 6 allowable drafts due to Covid since the Georgia game. That comparison is the most ridiculous takedown of BK you could possibly conceive. I get that 5 over a two year period isn’t ideal, but comparing it to Georgia’s ridiculous 25 is just cherry picking against probably the greatest college football team of the modern era. USC had 4 picks. FSU only had 1 pick.

 

[IrishLion]

Bro, there’s been a total of two drafts since that game vs Cincinnati, of course more players were drafted in the 6 allowable drafts due to Covid since the Georgia game. That comparison is the most ridiculous takedown of BK you could possibly conceive. I get that 5 over a two year period isn’t ideal, but comparing it to Georgia’s ridiculous 25 is just cherry picking against probably the greatest college football team of the modern era. USC had 4 picks. FSU only had 1 pick.

I think it's relevant in that ND was close to UGA in 2017, but over the course of 5 years, UGA took off like a rocket ship, while ND hit a lull.

Even if you can account for the low draft picks based on roster churn and expecting more the next year or what have you, that's still a wide gap.

Besides, we want ND to win a natty at some point... the comparison will always be against whoever the Death Star is at the time, and right now that's UGA, a team ND played pretty close not too long ago.

It illustrates different trajectories, mitigating factors or not.

 

[Irish du Nord]

Bro, there’s been a total of two drafts since that game vs Cincinnati, of course more players were drafted in the 6 allowable drafts due to Covid since the Georgia game. That comparison is the most ridiculous takedown of BK you could possibly conceive. I get that 5 over a two year period isn’t ideal, but comparing it to Georgia’s ridiculous 25 is just cherry picking against probably the greatest college football team of the modern era. USC had 4 picks. FSU only had 1 pick.

Cincinnati also had more though

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Bro, there’s been a total of two drafts since that game vs Cincinnati, of course more players were drafted in the 6 allowable drafts due to Covid since the Georgia game. That comparison is the most ridiculous takedown of BK you could possibly conceive. I get that 5 over a two year period isn’t ideal, but comparing it to Georgia’s ridiculous 25 is just cherry picking against probably the greatest college football team of the modern era. USC had 4 picks. FSU only had 1 pick.

Isn't using FSU and USC cherry picking as well? Neither of those two programs were on the same level as ND during the same stretch of time.

I think you missed the point too. Because the way I read it was to show that ND did have loads of talent that was getting developed. They trended down and UGA trended up. It just proved the point that ND basically quit on the recruiting trail and didn't hold the staff accountable in that regard either.

 

[PutuporShutup]

BK got tired of recruiting at ND, and didn't hold his staff accountable, either. Talent level dropped off wayyyyyyy more than just "THE ADMIN IS SCREWING US" accounts for (cough @Irishdrunk cough)

This is where MFMF can make up ground, even if he's not able to reach the heights we had hoped due to NIL. He can still stack top-100 talent better than BK did late in his tenure, and is currently on a great pace in that regard.

On the field vs Cincy have been drafted or will be drafted or could be drafted

For Sure:
Mayer (drafted)
Kyren (Drafted)
patterson (drafted)
Alt
Foskey (drafted)
Hart
Hamilton (drafted)
Mills
Fisher would have started the game


Maybe
Tyree
colzie
styles
buchner
correll
cross
lacey
botelho
betrand
Kiser


I agree the gap didn't close, but that doesn't mean the talent level dropped at ND. I think it's clear it just exploded at Georgia. Way more than 5 people will be drafted that were on the field for ND vs Cincy. Can't compare nfl counts of 2 drafts vs 5-6 drafts.

 

[forkbeard3777]

I think it's relevant in that ND was close to UGA in 2017, but over the course of 5 years, UGA took off like a rocket ship, while ND hit a lull.

Even if you can account for the low draft picks based on roster churn and expecting more the next year or what have you, that's still a wide gap.

Besides, we want ND to win a natty at some point... the comparison will always be against whoever the Death Star is at the time, and right now that's UGA, a team ND played pretty close not too long ago.

It illustrates different trajectories, mitigating factors or not.

2017 was Kirby's second year at Georgia, I believe. They were definitely improving (they should have won the NC that year), but from an all-compassing talent perspective, they hadn't filly hit their stride yet.

It's Georgia, they'll always have talent, but not at the depth level as you've seen in the past few years. Really, Georgia and Alabama (maybe, maybe Ohio State can be included) are the only ones that have truly stockpiled and hoarded talent at all positions and at an unparalleled level.

I'd also argue that it isn't also fair to say that over the course of the following Kelly years that Notre Dame "hit a lull" as well. Maybe the draft picks don't correlate to the results, but Kelly's remaining results were as follows:

2018 they went 12-1*
2019 they went 11-2
2020 they went 10-2*
2021 they went 11-2

* = denotes Playoff appearance.

Said another way, maybe they weren't being drafted high, or maybe they weren't being drafted at all, but they were doing something right, and winning a lot of games at it.

 

[IrishLion]

2017 was Kirby's second year at Georgia, I believe. They were definitely improving (they should have won the NC that year), but from an all-compassing talent perspective, they hadn't filly hit their stride yet.

It's Georgia, they'll always have talent, but not at the depth level as you've seen in the past few years. Really, Georgia and Alabama (maybe, maybe Ohio State can be included) are the only ones that have truly stockpiled and hoarded talent at all positions and at an unparalleled level.

I'd also argue that it isn't also fair to say that over the course of the following Kelly years that Notre Dame "hit a lull" as well. Maybe the draft picks don't correlate to the results, but Kelly's remaining results were as follows:

2018 they went 12-1*
2019 they went 11-2
2020 they went 10-2*
2021 they went 11-2

* = denotes Playoff appearance.

Said another way, maybe they weren't being drafted high, or maybe they weren't being drafted at all, but they were doing something right, and winning a lot of games at it.

BK was great, and the Tweet I linked doesn't refute that.

But the reality is that he stopped giving more than the minimal effort in recruiting, and that permeated to specific parts of the coaching staff. We saw the returns from that at WR the past two years.

It's easy to maintain a top ~15 roster at ND with almost no effort. BK gave a little effort toward the end and had them in the top ~7.

Freeman's effort, NIL be damned, should keep them around the top 5, which means they'll have a fighting chance against anyone if they can hit on a QB.........


AKA, the same debate ND fans were having about BK since 2017.

Good Season --> Lose Big Game --> "Not enough talent" --> Hit on a QB, or Recruit Well Enough to Win Without One (The Bama Method for a while, kind of The Georgia Method Stetson's first year?) --> Rinse, Repeat

BK got burned out. He gave a lot to ND, and was an amazing coach. But he burned out on recruiting, and not just in a "Focus on RKG's Only" kind of way. Too many stories about BK not stepping in with a recruit until it was almost too late, or WAS too late, to be coincidental. And the beat guys have the sour grapes to prove it lol.

 

[forkbeard3777]

Generally, I think that Notre Dame's 22 starters (barring some exceptions here and there) are as talented as most teams. However, I don't think they have the sheer depth some of the other recent elite teams (Georgia, Alabama) have had - no one has.

Georgia and Alabama were rotating guys on their defensive line that would be starters at 9/10 schools in the country. They'd throw young guys at there and put them on an island at cornerback or plug them in the slot, and they'd all step up and make plays. No one at those schools are staying four years, so you had to bring in elite talent, and get them on the field early. It's truly remarkable what Smart and Saban have done. They are an outlier, not the rule.

Freeman (and all others) need to stay the course and keep building their programs. Keep stock piling talent. As weird as it sounds, transfers out can be seen as a good thing. Players aren't happy, generally, due to someone that's better than them took their spot. Keep building the roster, and it'll all align itself.

 

[Luckylucci]

Isn't using FSU and USC cherry picking as well? Neither of those two programs were on the same level as ND during the same stretch of time.

I think you missed the point too. Because the way I read it was to show that ND did have loads of talent that was getting developed. They trended down and UGA trended up. It just proved the point that ND basically quit on the recruiting trail and didn't hold the staff accountable in that regard either.

The problem with this conversation is both sides end up saying things that are just non-sensical. Between the 2020 and 2021 classes they had 13 top 150 players. Last cycle Freeman signed 6. Nobody quit recruiting. They just weren't consistent enough at it, maybe most importantly positionally speaking.

 

[Luckylucci]

The big difference so far in Freeman's recruiting versus Kelly's is not the top of the class but the middle of the class. There is more consistency, positionally, and at the middle of the class.

 

[Katzenboyer]

Bro, there’s been a total of two drafts since that game vs Cincinnati, of course more players were drafted in the 6 allowable drafts due to Covid since the Georgia game. That comparison is the most ridiculous takedown of BK you could possibly conceive. I get that 5 over a two year period isn’t ideal, but comparing it to Georgia’s ridiculous 25 is just cherry picking against probably the greatest college football team of the modern era. USC had 4 picks. FSU only had 1 pick.

Cincy had fourteen players from that year's team drafted in those same two drafts.

 

[Katzenboyer]

The problem with this conversation is both sides end up saying things that are just non-sensical. Between the 2020 and 2021 classes they had 13 top 150 players. Last cycle Freeman signed 6. Nobody quit recruiting. They just weren't consistent enough at it, maybe most importantly positionally speaking.

That's a fair point. But going off Rivals (and this kind of supports your next post), ND took 22 4/5* recruits in the 2020/2021 classes. They took 36 in 2022/2023.

Kelly's recruiting wasn't bad, per se. But it didn't maximize what ND can do on the trail, nor the success the team had on the field in the years leading up to those classes.

 

[forkbeard3777]

BK was great, and the Tweet I linked doesn't refute that.

But the reality is that he stopped giving more than the minimal effort in recruiting, and that permeated to specific parts of the coaching staff. We saw the returns from that at WR the past two years.

It's easy to maintain a top ~15 roster at ND with almost no effort. BK gave a little effort toward the end and had them in the top ~7.

Freeman's effort, NIL be damned, should keep them around the top 5, which means they'll have a fighting chance against anyone if they can hit on a QB.........


AKA, the same debate ND fans were having about BK since 2017.

Good Season --> Lose Big Game --> "Not enough talent" --> Hit on a QB, or Recruit Well Enough to Win Without One (The Bama Method for a while, kind of The Georgia Method Stetson's first year?) --> Rinse, Repeat

BK got burned out. He gave a lot to ND, and was an amazing coach. But he burned out on recruiting, and not just in a "Focus on RKG's Only" kind of way. Too many stories about BK not stepping in with a recruit until it was almost too late, or WAS too late, to be coincidental. And the beat guys have the sour grapes to prove it lol.

I don't know enough about his recruiting efforts at Notre Dame to agree or disagree with you, but nothing you wrote, to me, seems inaccurate or off-point.

Notre Dame had a lot of talent (for many years, I'd put their entire offensive line up against any other team), but I did feel like they were always lacking at quarterback. They have had some "serviceable" guys - Wimbush, Book, etc., but never anyone just utterly elite and kickass (Tua, Burrow, Bryce Young, Caleb Williams, CJ Stroud).

I also never felt that they had that one, elite difference maker (Amari Cooper, Ja'Marr Chase, Justin Jefferson, DeVonta Smith, Derrick Henry, Lenoard Fournette, Jaylen Waddle, Julio Jones, etc.) out there. Maybe the did, but Kelly's offensive philosophy and style of play suffocated that. Who knows?

It could have been a recruiting issue, missing on elite talent, or a Brian Kelly issue. I like Kelly a lot as a head coach (I think he's the best we've had since Saban), but his offensive philosophy does have me a little uneasy.

 

[PutuporShutup]

Cincy had fourteen players from that year's team drafted in those same two drafts.

And that number will fall off like a cliff. Cincy peaked for 2 seasons, good for them. Kelly had a great 5 year run.

 

[PutuporShutup]

The big difference so far in Freeman's recruiting versus Kelly's is not the top of the class but the middle of the class. There is more consistency, positionally, and at the middle of the class.

Agree. I need to see development this year. WE definitely saw big time player development under Kelly.

WRs, Dline, LBs need to be significantly improved this year. There's no excuse for them not to be other than poor coaching.

 

[Luckylucci]

That's a fair point. But going off Rivals (and this kind of supports your next post), ND took 22 4/5* recruits in the 2020/2021 classes. They took 36 in 2022/2023.

Kelly's recruiting wasn't bad, per se. But it didn't maximize what ND can do on the trail, nor the success the team had on the field in the years leading up to those classes.

I'm only ever going to use the composite as it keeps us from cherry picking which site has our guys higher or lower to fit our narrative.

7 of the 13, top 250 players, in the 2022 class, were offense. Which means 6 were on defense. Of the 18, 4 stars, they signed. 10 were on offense. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but... No, Freeman does not get credit for those recruiting victories.

 

[Luckylucci]

To address the Cincy point though.

I'm counting 12 guys drafted in '22 and '23. Maybe I'm missing some.

Important to note and notably excluded from this conversation is, between the 2020 and 2021 drafts ND had 14 players drafted. 10 of those being Day 2 guys.

So, yea. A historic run by Fickell at Cincy brought that program to 9 guys drafted in 2022. Also notably left out, was that was more than Bama had. It was more than OSU had. It was literally more than the two highest ACC teams combined. In fact, they had the 3rd most guys drafted in the 2022 only being surpassed by UGA and LSU. Big time congrats to Fickell and company. Though I'm not sure it's the dig we want it to be.