‘23 VA ATH Brandyn Hillman (Michigan Verbal)

[PutuporShutup]

So it is about lowering standards.

Don’t know what he didn’t do? Was he required to kiss the ring? Take a class?

All we know is what he said and that he quickly got into very good academic schools. That’s now how you win if you believe in players you recruit

 

[GoIrish41]

Don’t know what he didn’t do? Was he required to kiss the ring? Take a class?

All we know is what he said and that he quickly got into very good academic schools. That’s now how you win if you believe in players you recruit

It’s a prestigious academic university for a reason. That’s something to admire, not condemn, IMO.

 

[PutuporShutup]

It’s a prestigious academic university for a reason. That’s something to admire, not condemn, IMO.

Agree, but it also spends every half time talking about all the good it does with community and to help people…. Doesn’t sound like they did much to help here. Yeah im chapped because he’s a great talent that has a child and is said to be a great kid in a tough environment…. Should have been an ND man

 

[stlnd01]

Because he qualified for as good or better academic schools in a day

This isn’t about their US News rankings or general academic prestige. This is about what courses they require students to arrive with, to have taken in high school.

Being admitted to Notre Dame requires some high school coursework that many other schools do not require (foreign language for instance). That’s true of all students, including football players. Large state schools like Michigan are less likely to have such strict admissions requirements than a small school like Notre Dame.

It seems like Hillman didn’t complete that coursework. Letting him in anyway would mean making a fairly major exception, and they apparently weren’t willing to do that. Ok. That’s their call. I don’t necessarily agree with it. But I can understand the reasoning here. And it has zero to do with which school is “better” academically.

 

[PutuporShutup]

This isn’t about their US News rankings or general academic prestige. This is about what courses they require students to arrive with, to have taken in high school.

Being admitted to Notre Dame requires some high school coursework that many other schools do not require (foreign language for instance). That’s true of all students, including football players. Large state schools like Michigan are less likely to have such strict admissions requirements than a small school like Notre Dame.

It seems like Hillman didn’t complete that coursework. Letting him in anyway would mean making a fairly major exception, and they apparently weren’t willing to do that. Ok. That’s their call. I don’t necessarily agree with it. But I can understand the reasoning here. And it has zero to do with which school is “better” academically.

I don’t know, I’d rather accept someone that doesn’t have 2 worthless years of Spanish but can actually read write and be a good person…(nd has bent rules for a few shady people in the past). Again, I have no clue what he didn’t do. But a few reporters feel he should have been admitted. I also believe being a father could be and probably is a factor. Yes, his own doing, but also part of equation imo.

 

[Crazy Balki]

I don’t know, I’d rather accept someone that doesn’t have 2 worthless years of Spanish but can actually read write and be a good person…(nd has bent rules for a few shady people in the past). Again, I have no clue what he didn’t do. But a few reporters feel he should have been admitted. I also believe being a father could be and probably is a factor. Yes, his own doing, but also part of equation imo.

This is entirely my point.

Whatever the reason is that he couldn't get accepted to ND, wasn't an issue with virtually every single other elite university.

You can write off US News reports, but there's a reason why those schools are where they are. We can sit back and continue to believe that other schools are willing to completely abandon all standards for kids, but we're simply yelling in an echo chamber. Nobody else cares.

And frankly, I don't care either. I couldn't give two craps that ND is being "more stringent" than Michigan for accepting student athletes. Who got this kid in the end? Michigan. If he ends up contributing for them and leaving Michigan with a degree in hand or making legitimate academic progress (i.e. leaves early for the draft), then the only losers here are ND.

ND is tough, but it's not Harvard. Plenty of athletes who were far from Rhodes Scholars make it through every year.

 

[Crazy Balki]

I know. How’s that on the admin?

Because whatever was required for Hillman to be admitted was not an issue for the other elite universities.

If he can get in to Vanderbilt, Michigan, Virginia and the like, we shouldn't be having to jump through hoops to get him in.

It also extends out to the overlapping problem that this university has with admissions, namely with undergrad transfers.

 

[Crazy Balki]

You’re not really in a position to tell ND what they should or shouldnt do about managing their admissions because its how you think it should be though. It is not a problem that getting into ND as a football player is harder than getting into Michigan.

1) If that were the case, then nobody on this site would be in a position to argue ANYTHING regarding ND, the administration or the football program. Yet, here we are. That's the point of this site. Provide your opinion on things re: ND and ND football.

2) It ABSOLUTELY is a problem that it's harder to get into ND than Michigan, Vanderbilt or Virginia. I don't know how that's even remotely arguable. ND is already working in a shallower pool of talent than the rest of the nation, what with the lack of a robust NIL system, brutally thin options via the portal and more stringent academic requirements. But this isn't a guy who could only manage the NCAA minimum to get into State U. He had 3 top 25 academic institutions knocking at his door literally hours after he was released from his NLI. That's not a problem?

And not to mention, ND isn't in a position to argue their stance in the current landscape is constructed in a way that allows them to succeed in all facets. ND was far more liberal and made far more compromises to get kids in who didn't exactly meet the requirements before and they made it work. And the result? They were FAR more successful on the field, and they maintained the standard off it. Guys like Tony Rice and Chris Zorich got in and worked hard to achieve their degrees. Those guys would NEVER see the inside of the Gug as a student athlete of ND today. If ND can't see that and admit it's a problem, then it's just another example of how they are allowing their program to fall behind. There's always room for compromise and history shows that is a fact.

 

[Irish du Nord]

Who said anything about lowering standards? If we're talking admissions, that already happens, but ND should be more flexible.

I've said over and over again that ND shouldn't abandon their expectations for their players when they get admitted. However, if ND is requiring students meet a certain requirement(s) that none of their peer academic universities are requiring, that is a problem.

You can be more flexible in accepting athletes (and this extends to the portal) WHILE ALSO holding them accountable when they show up. The two aren't mutually exclusive. If a dude can hack it at Vanderbilt or Michigan, I like his chances at ND.

I guess our peers must not actually be our peers…same as it ever was.

 

[FDNYIrish1]

Maybe they did compromise and ask for a relatively minor thing to prove that he was able to keep up with the rigor of being a Notre Dame student athlete. And the player for whatever reason didn’t live up to his end of said compromise. I’ve read that he has a child at home. I’m sure his time is valuable and he must make difficult decisions on management. I really wish the kid well in the future. He got out in front and took responsibility for his actions. Seems like the kind of guy you want in your program.

 

[GoIrish41]

Agree, but it also spends every half time talking about all the good it does with community and to help people…. Doesn’t sound like they did much to help here. Yeah im chapped because he’s a great talent that has a child and is said to be a great kid in a tough environment…. Should have been an ND man

Agree. Is what it is.

 

[GoIrish41]

Because whatever was required for Hillman to be admitted was not an issue for the other elite universities.

If he can get in to Vanderbilt, Michigan, Virginia and the like, we shouldn't be having to jump through hoops to get him in.

It also extends out to the overlapping problem that this university has with admissions, namely with undergrad transfers.

Maybe the others aren’t as elite as you are suggesting?

 

[Crazy Balki]

Maybe the others aren’t as elite as you are suggesting?

Far more credible opinions than ours tend to disagree.

 

[Crazy Balki]

I guess our peers must not actually be our peers…same as it ever was.

Or our peers seem to be more flexible with admitting students.

Seems like Vanderbilt and Michigan have found a way to make it work without it compromising their academic prestige.

Maybe something ND should jump on sometime this century...

 

[SeekNDestroy]

I don’t know, I’d rather accept someone that doesn’t have 2 worthless years of Spanish but can actually read write and be a good person…(nd has bent rules for a few shady people in the past). Again, I have no clue what he didn’t do. But a few reporters feel he should have been admitted. I also believe being a father could be and probably is a factor. Yes, his own doing, but also part of equation imo.

LOTS of ND football players have had kids in high school. Some of them have even had 2 kids.

 

[GoIrish41]

Far more credible opinions than ours tend to disagree.

And they have to live with their mistakes.

 

[Irish#1]

Don’t know what he didn’t do? Was he required to kiss the ring? Take a class?

All we know is what he said and that he quickly got into very good academic schools. That’s now how you win if you believe in players you recruit

But not better academic schools.

 

[PutuporShutup]

But not better academic schools.

Vanderbilt is ranked better, so is duke

 

[Free Manera]

Has anyone confirmed it was the language requirement? It seemed like they were alluding to that on 247 but I didn't see them commit to it.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

 

[PutuporShutup]

Has anyone confirmed it was the language requirement? It seemed like they were alluding to that on 247 but I didn't see them commit to it.

Not sure but I love the language requirement. So progressive!

 

[IrishTusker]

Vanderbilt is ranked better, so is duke

Again, it has nothing to do with rankings. It has to do with whether schools apply academic standards to athletes, or not. Not all of the "highly ranked" schools do.

 

[irishog77]

Is there confirmation Hillman was actually admitted into all these other "high academic" schools, minus michigan? I truly don't know. If Hillman enrolls and attends classes at michigan, then he was obviously admitted there.

But he was supposedly going to be admitted into ND as well. Until he wasn't. Have duke, virginia, and vanderbilt all said he was actually accepted, admitted, and able to enroll into their schools? Or could it have been conditional like it was at ND?

 

[T-Boone]

Is the foreign language thing reallly a requirement?

 

[stlnd01]

Is the foreign language thing reallly a requirement?

Yes. For all students.

Evaluation Criteria

We empower brilliant, energetic thinkers motivated to change the world.

admissions.nd.edu

And while of course they'll be more lenient on grades/test scores for recruited scholarship athletes, I don't get the sense the minimum coursework requirements are all that negotiable. On the other hand, Vanderbilt, for instance, "recommends" two years of foreign language, but doesn't require it, according to their website. That gives a lot more flexibility in a situation like this (appears to be).

 

[ndfanatic78]

It’s a prestigious academic university for a reason. That’s something to admire, not condemn, IMO.

So is Michigan, so is Vanderbilt, so is a dozen other schools that would have admitted him. Get over yourself that ND is academic MECA. There are plenty of other schools out there that are prestigious academic schools that make exceptions for the top athletically gifted students. The mission of the school is to get its students ready for life after school that should also include a profession in the professional athletics and accepting kids who are athletically gifted enough to make it. Stanford even makes exceptions for their Olympic sports you don’t see ND make and Stanford is one hell of greater academic reputation than ND.

 

[Luckylucci]

So is Michigan, so is Vanderbilt, so is a dozen other schools that would have admitted him. Get over yourself that ND is academic MECA. There are plenty of other schools out there that are prestigious academic schools that make exceptions for the top athletically gifted students. The mission of the school is to get its students ready for life after school that should also include a profession in the professional athletics and accepting kids who are athletically gifted enough to make it. Stanford even makes exceptions for their Olympic sports you don’t see ND make and Stanford is one hell of greater academic reputation than ND.

They already do.

I think can all agree that what Hillman was expected to do, was not getting him admitted with the general student body if not for his athletic prowess. Lol.

 

[irishog77]

So is Michigan, so is Vanderbilt, so is a dozen other schools that would have admitted him. Get over yourself that ND is academic MECA. There are plenty of other schools out there that are prestigious academic schools that make exceptions for the top athletically gifted students. The mission of the school is to get its students ready for life after school that should also include a profession in the professional athletics and accepting kids who are athletically gifted enough to make it. Stanford even makes exceptions for their Olympic sports you don’t see ND make and Stanford is one hell of greater academic reputation than ND.

Would they have admitted him? Seems like all we actually know is that ND almost admitted him and that michigan, presumably, will. And it's not news that michigan is letting in a student that ND won't- that's been a given for years.

I asked this question this morning. Can anybody actually confirm all these other schools would have truly admitted Hillman? I'm not saying they would or would not, I genuinely don't know. But Hillman being recruited by "high academic" schools and actually attending there are 2 entirely different things. Every year, ND recruits kids and offers over 100 kids. But they all are not actually able to be admitted into ND.

If the de facto argument is that Hillman can attend michigan and not ND, then that is, again, an entirely different argument than Hillman could truly attend stanford and northwestern, but not ND.

 

[T-Boone]

I think it’s fine to require these extra things for a student who is coming in paying their way and probably has had ND in mind for many years (and probably has parents who can give them opportunity)
But if that’s enforced for everyone it possibly makes ND elitist and exclusive.
For the students trying to get in on academic and sports scholarships (and wouldn’t be able to afford to get in otherwise due to being underprivileged) they should factor in that this extra curricular stuff is hard to fit in if you are just trying to survive rather than having been born with a silver spoon in mouth.
If the kid is smart enough find a way to give them an opportunity.

 

[stlnd01]

I think it’s fine to require these extra things for a student who is coming in paying their way and probably has had ND in mind for many years (and probably has parents who can give them opportunity)
But if that’s enforced for everyone it possibly makes ND elitist and exclusive.
For the students trying to get in on academic and sports scholarships (and wouldn’t be able to afford to get in otherwise due to being underprivileged) they should factor in that this extra curricular stuff is hard to fit in if you are just trying to survive rather than having been born with a silver spoon in mouth.
If the kid is smart enough find a way to give them an opportunity.

We're just talking about taking two years of Spanish or something here. Spanish is taught at probably every public high school in America. (It certainly should be). It's hardly something that is reserved for people who were "born with a silver spoon" in their mouth.

I'd guess part of the issue here is that Hillman wasn't being actively recruited by Notre Dame or many other places until his senior year of high school had already started. He wouldn't have had much time left to line up required classes that he hadn't already taken. And, for all we know, he was given the opportunity to finish up over the summer or something and declined.