Politics

[Irish#1]

FYI the judge who ruled this is a lower court. It will be appealed and it will be ok. Hoax lmao… good lord. The federal government holds 90% of the student loans. Haha.

This is yet another example of the GOP doing everything in their power to make the everyday persons life harder and yet another reason why the young people will continue to vote against them.

Free ride for everyone.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Yeah medical bills would have been the first thing I would have suggested get covered by the government.

I've already laid out why an unbearable debt load is bad multiple times in these threads. You've never wanted to engage on a discussion with economic theory, everything is a culture war or some sort of anecdotal note. You're welcome to pitch in some reasoning instead of half baked Clay Travis re-runs.

Just because you went through something that was unpleasant doesn't mean somebody else should. Your taxes are being spent at a higher rate to liquify brown people in the desert.

Never listened to a single Clay Travis broadcast nor read any of his stuff to the best of my knowledge. I don't need others to tell me what to think. None of this has anything to do with me going through something unpleasant. Not even sure what you're referencing there. My point is simple: I'm not responsible for someone else's bad decisions or debts. I made good decisions most of the time. I got a useful degree and worked full time while doing so in order not to incur an unpayable debt. The student loan debt I did incur, I paid. I paid for most of my children's college education. I pay my own credit card bills (and make sure I don't incur debt on them that I can't afford to pay). I pay my own housing and food expenses and I don't buy a house or car or food I can't afford. It's called personal responsibility and making good decisions.

Why in the world should I be expected to pay the student loans of people I don't know, who made a long series of bad decisions? Nobody held a gun to a single one of them's head and forced them to borrow more money than they could possibly pay back. WAAAAAY too many of them went to the wrong school, studied the wrong subject and got the wrong degree, borrowed money without any idea of how they'd repay it. If I do that in my personal life, I lose a house or car, starve, or have to give up a lot of "fun" things in my life and tighten my belt until I work my way out of MY OWN PROBLEMS.

Let them suffer the consequences of their own stupidity. It's the only way they'll learn. Protecting idiots from the consequences of their mistakes only encourages them to continue making bad decisions and tells others not to worry too much about whether they make a lot of bad decisions either. If you think paying off other people's student loans is so important, then by all means, feel free to use your funds to do so. Just don't demand that I do so. I paid mine and my kids' education expenses. Let them or their parents (or people like you) pay theirs.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Even more ridiculous than your lengthy commendation of George Wallace?

You're too unintelligent to understand most of what is discussed here. Go bore someone else or get smarter.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Free ride for everyone.

Cack talking about how the government holds 90% of the student debt is just dumbfounding. He really has no idea how this works or who pays that debt if the government just "wipes it out." He actually said above, "I don’t understand this. If the government is the holder it can do what it wants just as any privately held loan holder." Wow. How can someone be this ignorant of economics and government, yet insist on blathering on and on lecturing the rest of us about the subject?

 

[Irish#1]

Yeah medical bills would have been the first thing I would have suggested get covered by the government.

I've already laid out why an unbearable debt load is bad multiple times in these threads. You've never wanted to engage on a discussion with economic theory, everything is a culture war or some sort of anecdotal note. You're welcome to pitch in some reasoning instead of half baked Clay Travis re-runs.

Just because you went through something that was unpleasant doesn't mean somebody else should. Your taxes are being spent at a higher rate to liquify brown people in the desert.

Yes, let’s pay for everyone’s bad choices.

 

[SeekNDestroy]

You're too unintelligent to understand most of what is discussed here. Go bore someone else or get smarter.

I wish I could be the smartest man in the room like you. I has a sad.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Free ride for everyone.

Not one person has said this.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Yes, let’s pay for everyone’s bad choices.

How is getting cancer a bad decision

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

View attachment 3051913

Who's going to pay for it?

According to ACB they don’t have standing lol. Twice.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Yeah medical bills would have been the first thing I would have suggested get covered by the government.

I've already laid out why an unbearable debt load is bad multiple times in these threads. You've never wanted to engage on a discussion with economic theory, everything is a culture war or some sort of anecdotal note. You're welcome to pitch in some reasoning instead of half baked Clay Travis re-runs.

Just because you went through something that was unpleasant doesn't mean somebody else should. Your taxes are being spent at a higher rate to liquify brown people in the desert.

Bishop lives in a state that is a welfare queen living off the teet of California and NY but he somehow magically thinks it’s cool. He is a total authority of taking other peoples money and keeping it.

 

[TorontoGold]

Never listened to a single Clay Travis broadcast nor read any of his stuff to the best of my knowledge. I don't need others to tell me what to think. None of this has anything to do with me going through something unpleasant. Not even sure what you're referencing there. My point is simple: I'm not responsible for someone else's bad decisions or debts. I made good decisions most of the time. I got a useful degree and worked full time while doing so in order not to incur an unpayable debt. The student loan debt I did incur, I paid. I paid for most of my children's college education. I pay my own credit card bills (and make sure I don't incur debt on them that I can't afford to pay). I pay my own housing and food expenses and I don't buy a house or car or food I can't afford. It's called personal responsibility and making good decisions.

Why in the world should I be expected to pay the student loans of people I don't know, who made a long series of bad decisions? Nobody held a gun to a single one of them's head and forced them to borrow more money than they could possibly pay back. WAAAAAY too many of them went to the wrong school, studied the wrong subject and got the wrong degree, borrowed money without any idea of how they'd repay it. If I do that in my personal life, I lose a house or car, starve, or have to give up a lot of "fun" things in my life and tighten my belt until I work my way out of MY OWN PROBLEMS.

Let them suffer the consequences of their own stupidity. It's the only way they'll learn. Protecting idiots from the consequences of their mistakes only encourages them to continue making bad decisions and tells others not to worry too much about whether they make a lot of bad decisions either. If you think paying off other people's student loans is so important, then by all means, feel free to use your funds to do so. Just don't demand that I do so. I paid mine and my kids' education expenses. Let them or their parents (or people like you) pay theirs.

So paying off student loans was pleasant? Pretty clear what I was referencing. The cost of post secondary school isn't the same as it was in 70/80s, it isn't just humanities who are paying back student loans. If you truly believe that doctors/lawyers pay off their loans instantly then there isn't much more to this conversation lol.

You know what, your not expected to pay back for other peoples loans. This why a university education is important, it allows you to develop critical thinking skills in which, you'll realize that having a population who isn't under insane debt pressures is actually much better for the economy. When you go to sell your house to downsize for retirement, or try to offload a cottage you no longer use you're not selling it to other other boomers.

How do you think society operates if there is a growing amount of people who can't afford to live? Do you think that makes for an enjoyable time? If you take the time to actually think this through, having a majority of the population barely able to live is going to impact your life.

PS: I hire 10-15 students each year that get paid $55K a year to help them build their resume and give them a decent salary. As well, I have setup a clinic at my firm in which I can provide services to those that wouldn't normally be able to afford a CPA's time. So yeah, I do help out the less fortunate. Instead of saying "too bad I've got mine" I think it's better to actually try and help my community, idk tho maybe that's just virtue signaling.

Yes, let’s pay for everyone’s bad choices.

This would be better if you weren't a boomer. Easily the generation who's benefitted most by government handouts.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Bishop lives in a state that is a welfare queen living off the teet of California and NY but he somehow magically thinks it’s cool. He is a total authority of taking other peoples money and keeping it.

Literally has NOTHING to do with Biden trying to buy votes from young people by promising to make other people pay off their student loans.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

So paying off student loans was pleasant? Pretty clear what I was referencing. The cost of post secondary school isn't the same as it was in 70/80s, it isn't just humanities who are paying back student loans. If you truly believe that doctors/lawyers pay off their loans instantly then there isn't much more to this conversation lol.

You know what, your not expected to pay back for other peoples loans. This why a university education is important, it allows you to develop critical thinking skills in which, you'll realize that having a population who isn't under insane debt pressures is actually much better for the economy. When you go to sell your house to downsize for retirement, or try to offload a cottage you no longer use you're not selling it to other other boomers.

How do you think society operates if there is a growing amount of people who can't afford to live? Do you think that makes for an enjoyable time? If you take the time to actually think this through, having a majority of the population barely able to live is going to impact your life.

PS: I hire 10-15 students each year that get paid $55K a year to help them build their resume and give them a decent salary. As well, I have setup a clinic at my firm in which I can provide services to those that wouldn't normally be able to afford a CPA's time. So yeah, I do help out the less fortunate. Instead of saying "too bad I've got mine" I think it's better to actually try and help my community, idk tho maybe that's just virtue signaling.



This would be better if you weren't a boomer. Easily the generation who's benefitted most by government handouts.

It’s hilarious that the age group who benefited the most from the goverment subsidies and local universities are all like get the fuck off my lawn you needy pricks! Haha

 

[jprue24]

You're missing a fundamental aspect of it all. It IS NOT the government's money. PERIOD. The fact that you think so is part of the problem with our country. It's the people's money and the government is tasked with being a good steward of the public funds. The government is supposed to work for us, not the other way around. Here's something from the Obama administration archives concerning the OMB: "The Federal Government has a fundamental responsibility to be effective stewards of the taxpayers' money." This has been someth9ing explicitly stated since at least the Jefferson administration.

So we agree that the government decides how to spend tax payer's money. Whether the government is being a good steward is an opinion and, like I stated, taxpayers get their say at the ballot box.

If you support debt relief, how about paying off people's medical bills? How about paying for all chemo treatment for cancer patients? Why not car payments for young people who bought more car than they can afford? I spent too much on guitars last year, so how about my credit cards? Student loan debt is the product of people making really bad decisions about how much to borrow, what school to attend, what degree to earn, and then saying, "Oh, my degree in XYZ won't get me a job that will allow me to support myself and pay my debts." Yeah, welcome to reality. LOTS of us wanted to study something fun instead of practical, but knew the consequences, so we made mature decisions. It's not our job to pay your debts. You earned them. I paid mine. The rest of us paid ours. We have NO obligation to pay someone else's who made bad decisions. Now, if YOU want to pay them, nobody will stop you. Have at it.

I support universal healthcare so yeah, I'm ok with my tax dollars paying for cancer treatments. Certainly more ok with that type of spending than some of the spending that comes from the NDAA.

Student loan debt is a product of a lot of things. The rest of what you said is covered under "I'm not a selfish prick."

I believe in most cases the 10K forgiveness covers what the borrower pays back in interest. Once again, I am good with that.

 

[Bishop2b5]

So Toronto, you've had a lot to say about the negative impact of heavy debt load on college grads, and I agree it's tough. What you (nor anyone else) has seemed interested in discussing is how this generation of college students incurred such debt. When they started their college education, did they not know the cost, what they could pay, what they'd need to borrow, the job prospects for their intended degree, the cost difference between their college of choice and their college of affordability, and etc.? If I built a $3mil house and a few years later was starving because every penny I made went to my mortgage payment, who do you think should be blamed? Everyone with an ounce of sense would say, "Well Bishop, you're the dumbass who built a house that was way out of your budget. Did you not think about what the monthly payments would be? Did you not look at your income and your budget and your job didn't justify this house?" Same with the student loan thing.

Where were their parents when they were obligating themselves for more money in loans than they could repay? What were they thinking? Did they just think those loans would magically repay themselves or their field would suddenly start paying 3 times its usual salary, or what? Did anyone hold a gun to their head and make them choose the college, major, and financial paths they chose? Of course not. So whose fault is this? Well, it's theirs. They made a series of really bad decisions without much thought for the consequences. Let them and their parents deal with their own mistakes. It's not my responsibility to rescue them from the consequences of their own decisions. It's not my job to reward bad or stupid behavior. We've been saying for years that current culture and values has been creating a generation of infantilized, all feelings no thinking, I should have it because I want it, immediate gratification, self-centered, clueless, helpless morons. Well, here's your result. Life's tough. It's tougher when you're stupid.

 

[Irish#1]

How is getting cancer a bad decision

Just stop. The focus has been on student loans. B TW, I’ve had cancer. I had surgery for it. What my insurance didn’t pay, I paid and it wasn’t just a few dollars.

 

[Irish#1]

So Toronto, you've had a lot to say about the negative impact of heavy debt load on college grads, and I agree it's tough. What you (nor anyone else) has seemed interested in discussing is how this generation of college students incurred such debt. When they started their college education, did they not know the cost, what they could pay, what they'd need to borrow, the job prospects for their intended degree, the cost difference between their college of choice and their college of affordability, and etc.? If I built a $3mil house and a few years later was starving because every penny I made went to my mortgage payment, who do you think should be blamed? Everyone with an ounce of sense would say, "Well Bishop, you're the dumbass who built a house that was way out of your budget. Did you not think about what the monthly payments would be? Did you not look at your income and your budget and your job didn't justify this house?" Same with the student loan thing.

Where were their parents when they were obligating themselves for more money in loans than they could repay? What were they thinking? Did they just think those loans would magically repay themselves or their field would suddenly start paying 3 times its usual salary, or what? Did anyone hold a gun to their head and make them choose the college, major, and financial paths they chose? Of course not. So whose fault is this? Well, it's theirs. They made a series of really bad decisions without much thought for the consequences. Let them and their parents deal with their own mistakes. It's not my responsibility to rescue them from the consequences of their own decisions. It's not my job to reward bad or stupid behavior. We've been saying for years that current culture and values has been creating a generation of infantilized, all feelings no thinking, I should have it because I want it, immediate gratification, self-centered, clueless, helpless morons. Well, here's your result. Life's tough. It's tougher when you're stupid.

Hey Bishop, mind paying off my credit cards?

 

[Bishop2b5]

So we agree that the government decides how to spend tax payer's money. Whether the government is being a good steward is an opinion and, like I stated, taxpayers get their say at the ballot box.

I support universal healthcare so yeah, I'm ok with my tax dollars paying for cancer treatments. Certainly more ok with that type of spending than some of the spending that comes from the NDAA.

Student loan debt is a product of a lot of things. The rest of what you said is covered under "I'm not a selfish prick."

I believe in most cases the 10K forgiveness covers what the borrower pays back in interest. Once again, I am good with that.

Here's the problem summed up neatly and wisely:


“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.” ― Alexander Fraser Tytler

Do you understand that what Biden attempted to do was buy votes by promising to give them something for free from the public treasury? There's no other moral or ethical justification for straight up robbing one group to pay the debts of another.

As for your selfish prick comment, how is anyone a selfish prick for wanting to work hard and keep what they earned and let you do the same? My obligation is to my own family or those I choose of my own free will to help, not to someone I don't know who's made a bunch of bad decisions and now wants the government to force me to pay for their mistakes. Are you a selfish prick for not paying my credit card bill after I bought several guitars? No? So that's different, huh? Knock that silly overly emotional selfish prick nonsense off then.

 

[TorontoGold]

So Toronto, you've had a lot to say about the negative impact of heavy debt load on college grads, and I agree it's tough. What you (nor anyone else) has seemed interested in discussing is how this generation of college students incurred such debt. When they started their college education, did they not know the cost, what they could pay, what they'd need to borrow, the job prospects for their intended degree, the cost difference between their college of choice and their college of affordability, and etc.? If I built a $3mil house and a few years later was starving because every penny I made went to my mortgage payment, who do you think should be blamed? Everyone with an ounce of sense would say, "Well Bishop, you're the dumbass who built a house that was way out of your budget. Did you not think about what the monthly payments would be? Did you not look at your income and your budget and your job didn't justify this house?" Same with the student loan thing.

Where were their parents when they were obligating themselves for more money in loans than they could repay? What were they thinking? Did they just think those loans would magically repay themselves or their field would suddenly start paying 3 times its usual salary, or what? Did anyone hold a gun to their head and make them choose the college, major, and financial paths they chose? Of course not. So whose fault is this? Well, it's theirs. They made a series of really bad decisions without much thought for the consequences. Let them and their parents deal with their own mistakes. It's not my responsibility to rescue them from the consequences of their own decisions. It's not my job to reward bad or stupid behavior. We've been saying for years that current culture and values has been creating a generation of infantilized, all feelings no thinking, I should have it because I want it, immediate gratification, self-centered, clueless, helpless morons. Well, here's your result. Life's tough. It's tougher when you're stupid.

Well, the easy answer is the cost of education isn't remotely the same as it was when you or I got it. So while it's the same time period to obtain the degree the pay back period is longer. Why do people need degrees? Well the generation who was in charge before the current group made it a requirement to have one. There is no more "start in the mailroom" jobs anymore, those days don't exist.

The current situation is get 1) try to make it without a degree and likely suffer 2) get a degree and take years to pay off the debt.

If all houses cost 3M then I would feel sympathy for you.

What is being ignored, having an educated society is incredibly beneficial to everyone. Smarter people are less likely to commit crimes, make bad health choices, and provide positive value to society. Making it so that it's harder for that to happen is not in anyone's best interest.

 

[ACamp1900]

Hey Bishop, mind paying off my credit cards?

He’d better or he’s apparently a selfish prick

 

[ab2cmiller]

Bernie Sanders former press secretary saying what everyone already knew.

 

[Irish#1]

Well, the easy answer is the cost of education isn't remotely the same as it was when you or I got it. So while it's the same time period to obtain the degree the pay back period is longer. Why do people need degrees? Well the generation who was in charge before the current group made it a requirement to have one. There is no more "start in the mailroom" jobs anymore, those days don't exist.

The current situation is get 1) try to make it without a degree and likely suffer 2) get a degree and take years to pay off the debt.

If all houses cost 3M then I would feel sympathy for you.

What is being ignored, having an educated society is incredibly beneficial to everyone. Smarter people are less likely to commit crimes, make bad health choices, and provide positive value to society. Making it so that it's harder for that to happen is not in anyone's best interest.

While the cost of education back then was lower, so were the wages.

 

[TorontoGold]

While the cost of education back then was lower, so were the wages.

You serious Clark? Lol because if you were you would have used italics

 

[Bishop2b5]

Well, the easy answer is the cost of education isn't remotely the same as it was when you or I got it. So while it's the same time period to obtain the degree the pay back period is longer. Why do people need degrees? Well the generation who was in charge before the current group made it a requirement to have one. There is no more "start in the mailroom" jobs anymore, those days don't exist.

The current situation is get 1) try to make it without a degree and likely suffer 2) get a degree and take years to pay off the debt.

If all houses cost 3M then I would feel sympathy for you.

What is being ignored, having an educated society is incredibly beneficial to everyone. Smarter people are less likely to commit crimes, make bad health choices, and provide positive value to society. Making it so that it's harder for that to happen is not in anyone's best interest.

Of course the cost of an education is more expensive now than 40 years ago... not even remotely close. However, those kids knew when they started their education that it was expensive and how much debt they would incur and did so anyway. As much as I might want something or even need it, if I can't afford it then I'm an idiot to obligate myself for it. A LOT of those students got useless degrees (or at least degrees that will never earn them much of an income) at expensive schools and now don't want to deal with the consequences. They want the rest of us to pay for their bad choices.

Granted, there aren't as many mailroom to corner office opportunities now as decades ago, but there are lots of high paying careers that don't require a Bachelors. One of my sons-in-law went the apprentice lineman route. Dude's 27 and already making well over 100k/yr and has zero school debt. The other son-in-law is about to graduate with his bachelor's in education, but he worked for years to save money, helped put my daughter through college and she's now putting him through, and realized he didn't have to have a degree from a hyper-expensive private school. Too many of these kids now in debt up to their eyeballs thought they were too good to work, go to a state school, or get a real degree instead of something trendy and fashionable that would help them change the world as SJW's. I realize not all fit that description and I'm being a little facetious, but we both know a LOT of those who can't pay their loans off are at least on speaking terms with most of what I just described.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Bernie Sanders former press secretary saying what everyone already knew.

Shocking! Just absolutely shocking. Who ever heard of such a low down, sneaky trick? A Democrat politician promising free stuff to entice voters to vote for them??? Never would've expected such a thing.

 

[Irish#1]

You serious Clark? Lol because if you were you would have used italics

Serious as a heart attack Clark. 1971 Cost of tuition for a degree in agriculture from Purdue was a little over $4K. My salary in IT in 1972 was $5K.

 

[TorontoGold]

Shocking! Just absolutely shocking. Who ever heard of such a low down, sneaky trick? A Democrat politician promising free stuff to entice voters to vote for them??? Never would've expected such a thing.

Is it still infrastructure week? Just need to get John McCain to give the thumbs up to repeal Obamacare.

 

[GATTACA!]

While the cost of education back then was lower, so were the wages.

So it's fair to assume you're in favor of raising the minimum wage to match the rate of inflation?

 

[Irish#1]

So it's fair to assume you're in favor of raising the minimum wage to match the rate of inflation?

I don’t have a problem raising minimum wage. People just need to be prepared for the results. Layoffs, hours cut and some small businesses closing.

Not sure that it would help though. I see signs everywhere paying $16 - $24 an hour and they can’t fill the positions.

 

[IrishLax]