ND Coaching Search Megathread

[chicago51]

Someone needs to explain the Al Golden is a terrible D Coordinator story which is not to be confused with the easily understood Al Golden is a terrible head coach story.

Terrible is a stretch, risky is a better description.

He hasn't been a DC since 05 and when he was a DC he was 2 gap 2000s Pittsburgh Steelers style 3-4 guy.

Nobody disputes what Golden did at Temple was remarkable and his DC days at Virginia were good. But that doesn’t make a him good DC in 2022. It makes him a great team culture guy and good DC in the 2000s.

His best showings of defensive prowless were during his Temple head coaching years and his Virginia DC years. Football though was a bit different in the 2000s. A few guys like Rich Rodriguez, and Urban Meyer were pushing the envelope on the option spread, you had the Big 12 starting to go towards the air raid style. But a majority of college offenses were just not very dynamic in Golden’s hey day.

He went to 1 gap 4-3 style D as head coach of Miami but his Miami defenses were mediocre.

Now it’s possible Golden has evolved and learned some things in the NFL. But he’s the most risky hire because he has no track record as a D coordinator against modern offensive attacks.

I will say character wise, he’s a fit. He builds good relationships like Marcus Freeman wants. He’ll recruit well.

He might be a good DC in 2022 but we have no idea. Gary Patterson was a great defensive mind in the 2000s, heck he was a good defensive mind in 2014, but football keeps evolving. Patterson got fired this past year. Some guys like Saban, Venables, and John Heacock have kept up; others not so much. Golden is a huge huge unknown.

 

[DONTH8]

He wasn't been a DC since 05 and when he was a DC he was 2 gap 2000s Pittsburgh Steelers 3-4 guy.

Nobody disputes what Golden did at Temple was remarkable and his DC days at Virginia were good. But that doesn’t make a him good DC in 2022. It makes him a great team culture guy and good DC in the 2000s.

His best showings of defensive prowless were during his Temple head coaching years and his Virginia DC years. Football though was a bit different in the 2000s. A few guys like Rich Rodriguez, and Urban Meyer were pushing the envelope on the option spread, you had the Big 12 starting to go towards the air raid style. But a majority of college offenses were just not very dynamic in Golden’s hey day.

He went to 1 gap 4-3 style D as head coach of Miami but his Miami defenses were mediocre.

Now it’s possible Golden has evolved and learned some things in the NFL. But he’s the most risky hire because he has no track record as a D coordinator against modern offensive attacks.

Character wise, he’s a fit. He builds good relationships like Marcus Freeman wants. He’ll recruit well.

I dont say this enough on your posts, but thanks for the insights.

 

[Dale]

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/tomloy247/status/1484584187101331467?s=21[/TWEET]

All names already being talked about, but he dedicated a lot of ink to Golden.

I think Golden would be an interesting hire because it gives you that “veteran” presence the staff does not currently have. Could be a large value add beyond just a position coach/coordinator perspective.

I’ve talked myself into Golden a while ago as being okay and recently into possibly good. I think it’s notable Freeman basically crossed all vets off the list sans Golden. I think if we get the Riley type dynamic where the defense is all Freeman’s fingerprints and play calling while Golden can really alleviate everything else and hopefully is a plus value add in development and game prep you get a home run mix

 

[NDFAN2008]

AL GOLDEN would be a disaster of a hire.

 

[Rogue219]

AL GOLDEN would be a disaster of a hire.

I don't know if I'd say disaster, but I don't know that many would be excited about it. I'd be counted as one who would not be.

 

[Dale]

I’ve talked myself into Golden a while ago as being okay and recently into possibly good. I think it’s notable Freeman basically crossed all vets off the list sans Golden. I think if we get the Riley type dynamic where the defense is all Freeman’s fingerprints and play calling while Golden can really alleviate everything else and hopefully is a plus value add in development and game prep you get a home run mix

I’ll highlight all of these are indeed large “ifs” which is why I used possibly good and hopefully. I won’t pretend to know yet Golden is indeed plus value in those departments.

 

[NDIrish88]

Hire the best recruiter, let Marcus call the plays. Start prepping Mickens or Washington to run the defense in case this is a one year rental. If so, next year promote one of them. Boom done

 

[irishog77]

Will Golden be able to recruit elite QB's tho?

 

[SoIll]

Loy made a good point.

Do you want a guy who comes in for a year and leaves? You now have to redo this whole process. Continuity is important.

Golden is going to be a DC in the NFL next year. That's a fact. He understands and is okay with not being a head coach anymore. He wants the job, and wants to be at ND for a long time. Dude was a money recruiter. Savvy. Just didn't work out as a HC. Loy's source "Dude would kill it with a ND polo on" (paraphrasing)

I'm good with it.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Al Golden hasn't been a defensive coordinator in college since 2005.

Marcus Freeman hasn't be a HC since

 

[GrangerIrish24]

Loy made a good point.

Do you want a guy who comes in for a year and leaves? You now have to redo this whole process. Continuity is important.

Golden is going to be a DC in the NFL next year. That's a fact. He understands and is okay with not being a head coach anymore. He wants the job, and wants to be at ND for a long time. Dude was a money recruiter. Savvy. Just didn't work out as a HC. Loy's source "Dude would kill it with a ND polo on" (paraphrasing)

I'm good with it.

That's my concern with Belk.

 

[Dale]

Side note, at this rate we might as well give McNulty a Assistant HC tag. Because it seems like he is. Stuckey was his player and Golden his teammate.

 

[irishog77]

Loy made a good point.

Do you want a guy who comes in for a year and leaves? You now have to redo this whole process. Continuity is important.

Golden is going to be a DC in the NFL next year. That's a fact. He understands and is okay with not being a head coach anymore. He wants the job, and wants to be at ND for a long time. Dude was a money recruiter. Savvy. Just didn't work out as a HC. Loy's source "Dude would kill it with a ND polo on" (paraphrasing)

I'm good with it.

Then why come to ND?

 

[chicago51]

I’ve talked myself into Golden a while ago as being okay and recently into possibly good. I think it’s notable Freeman basically crossed all vets off the list sans Golden. I think if we get the Riley type dynamic where the defense is all Freeman’s fingerprints and play calling while Golden can really alleviate everything else and hopefully is a plus value add in development and game prep you get a home run mix

These are my thoughts as well. Still think it’s risky hire to a degree since he hasn’t been a DC in a long time but I think he’s probably going to work.

Marcus Freeman is looking for the best partner in crime he can collaborate with, not necessarily the best solo act DC.

 

[Irish#1]

I don't know if I'd say disaster, but I don't know that many would be excited about it. I'd be counted as one who would not be.

And as I mentioned before, everyone was ready for mutiny when Harry was hired the first time. I've yet to see a reason from anyone that makes me think he would be a disaster.

 

[chicago51]

Loy made a good point.

Do you want a guy who comes in for a year and leaves? You now have to redo this whole process. Continuity is important.

Golden is going to be a DC in the NFL next year. That's a fact. He understands and is okay with not being a head coach anymore. He wants the job, and wants to be at ND for a long time. Dude was a money recruiter. Savvy. Just didn't work out as a HC. Loy's source "Dude would kill it with a ND polo on" (paraphrasing)

I'm good with it.

I assume Marcus Freeman wants to get to where Bama and UGA are, where the defense doesn’t change even though the coordinator changes.

 

[chicago51]

Marcus Freeman hasn't be a HC since

The Freeman HC hire is a risk. Calling Golden DC hire a risk is very fair. I think it probably works but it’s risky.

Some have said we need more experience I would argue we need more safe. Experience often equates to safe but not always. We’re kind of piling risk on top of risk here. Love him but Freeman is a risk, Rees with full autonomy is a risk. Stucky is a risk. Washington is a moderate risk I’d say. Hiestand is a safe hire. Mason is fairly safe for what he’s been hired for. I would argue, even though I’m okay with Golden, ND could be a little safer here.

And as I mentioned before, everyone was ready for mutiny when Harry was hired the first time. I've yet to see a reason from anyone that makes me think he would be a disaster.

HH was risk when ND hired . A risk that paid off. Golden is fine if you’re okay with a little unknown.

 

[irish o'phile]

Why would Golden be a bad hire?

 

[tko]

Selling the Golden standard has to play in here for Freeman.

 

[chicago51]

Will Golden be able to recruit elite QB's tho?

Yes. Absolutely.

 

[chicago51]

Selling the Golden standard has to play in here for Freeman.

Having 2 coach Al’s on the defensive staff is also a plus. Imagine Isaiah Foskey talking Friday before the game. “We’re ready, coach Al has us prepared and ready to go.” We won’t know who he is talking about and have to guess.

 

[Rogue219]

That's my concern with Belk.

Belk would probably need at least 2 successful years at ND as a DC before he could conceivably move up and out. Clark Lea did three years as ND DC. It's part of the business. For whatever reason, we have a lot of people in this fan base on this board and on other boards that can't grasp or handle that assistant coaches are going to leave. The more successful you are, the more likely the top lieutenants are going to go for jobs to better their own careers. They're not tied to Notre Dame the way fans are. A lot of people mocked Lea for going to Vanderbilt because nobody can win there. He's not seeing it that way. So many of these guys are positive, optimistic alpha types who bring energy and enthusiasm to the job. They're not all miserable waiting for the other shoe to drop.

I'd take Belk right now, in this moment, and let the chips fall. Suppose within two or three years ND wins a championship. That will be worth seeing Rees and Belk move on to head coaching jobs. Freeman can then replace them, maybe with Stuckey and Washington. Then go out and get more guys. The possibilities are numerous. It's a great opportunity. Belk sees that. Golden sees that too, I'm sure.

Golden went 32-25 at Miami and didn't even get to finish his fifth and final season. He was fired at 4-3, 1-2. He didn't exactly leave a bare cupboard for Mark Richt either. Having been in the NFL for the last six years, I am sure he could coordinate a college defense again without issue. From my perspective, it would be a curious hire, and there is no guarantee that he would not only do well but do well enough to parlay it into something better for himself. He may also decide to stick around for as long as Freeman will have him. Golden went to a Catholic HS in New Jersey. He has a master's degree. He may "get it" when it comes to ND, and that's a very important thing for any coach who will be in the program. I happen to tend to look at the younger, up and coming guys when it comes to my personal preferences as a fan when it comes to hiring. Get me the next big thing. If he moves along down the line, so be it. I expect him to.

I really think Belk would bring an added edge to this program who along with Freeman and Rees could take it to where it hasn't been since January 1989. Not saying it can't go there with anyone else, but Doug Belk has been on my personal radar since the start of he 2021 season. I think he'd be a tremendous hire.
t

 

[Rogue219]

I assume Marcus Freeman wants to get to where Bama and UGA are, where the defense doesn’t change even though the coordinator changes.

This is a great point. Not only has there been turnover at Saban's Alabama, but those guys who have left have parlayed their time there into some pretty big time gigs. If you have been a GA at Bama at any point, you're about as valuable of a candidate that is on the market. You practically have assistant coaching experience.

Winning programs are going to lose assistant coaches. It's part of the business at just about every level. You win, you get paid be it internally or elsewhere.

 

[Dale]

I didn’t read the full update till now. Oh boy lol. I mean has to be Golden? Without giving any info, the part about Golden was LENGTHY compared to like 2 sentences on the other 3 combined.

 

[arrowryan]

I didn’t read the full update till now. Oh boy lol. I mean has to be Golden? Without giving any info, the part about Golden was LENGTHY compared to like 2 sentences on the other 3 combined.

Yeah, isn't that weird? That was essentially just an Ale Golden update lol. Makes me think Loy was tipped which way they are leaning.

 

[SoIll]

Btw.

Loy is outshining the hell out of ISD

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

It’s also possible that Loy feels the need to justify Golden’s inclusion; but not the others.

 

[arrowryan]

Btw.

Loy is outshining the hell out of ISD

What is going on over there? I don't have a sub there, but they seem to do a good job on the recruiting side of things. Maybe not so much with the team itself?

You're right though. Tom has been good.

 

[irishrocket25]

This is just a gut feeling, but I wonder if Golden and some of the guys like Mason and Heacock are more of Savvy Jack's picks, while someone like Belk is who Freeman wants. I could see Swarbrick wanting more experience on the staff while Freeman would want and up and comer that will recruit like crazy.

 

[chicago51]

This is just a gut feeling, but I wonder if Golden and some of the guys like Mason and Heacock are more of Savvy Jack's picks, while someone like Belk is who Freeman wants. I could see Swarbrick wanting more experience on the staff while Freeman would want and up and comer that will recruit like crazy.

If you're theory is true it be the opposite.

See I think Belk despite his inexperience is actually the safer pick because he has a recent track record as a DC. Belk is much closer to the Mike Elko type who JS pushed on BK, than Golden is.

Golden hasn't been a DC since 05 when college football was much different. Golden was actually the mad man recruiter you speak when he was in college. While Belk coached in the American conference.

After BVG I can't see Swarbrick pushing a guy who has been in NFL awhile now on Freeman.

I actually don't see Jack pushing anybody right now. Maybe he'll push people if Freeman has trouble .

Freeman has a past relationship with Heacock it shouldn't be a surprise he wanted him.