Post Game Observations Oklahoma State

[GATTACA!]

I honestly thought that in game,… are they trying to make a recruiting point about the passing game??? It did just feel odd

I doubt they went in with the plan to throw 60+ times, but once they saw that the run was getting absolutely nothing they adjusted.

 

[GATTACA!]

It was obvious that Freeman was not calling the defense. Was he involved? I’m sure. That doesn’t negate the fact that that was a change from the regular season. How much of an impact it was? None of us knows. Well, except you. You seem to know.

By the 3rd/4th quarter he certainly was calling it.

 

[NDRock]

I doubt they went in with the plan to throw 60+ times, but once they saw that the run was getting absolutely nothing they adjusted.

Wonder if we could have run for a few first downs with TB12 getting some reps? Would have been nice to see.

 

[yankeehater]

I doubt they went in with the plan to throw 60+ times, but once they saw that the run was getting absolutely nothing they adjusted.

Doesn't explain why they never tried Buchner. He was usually the changeup when the running game wasn't working in previous games. I mean, they played 12 games, and then game 13 you try to change everything you are. I could see when the passing game was working early, but it wasn't for most of the second half.

 

[GATTACA!]

Wonder if we could have run for a few first downs with TB12 getting some reps? Would have been nice to see.

Yeah I was kind of baffled we didn't even bring him in for a play or two. There were a couple times Coan took off to scramble and I thought he had a first down easily and he ended up getting 1 yard because he's slower than my grandma. Buchner probably rips off a few 25 yarders. At least helps flip the field and get the defense a breath if nothing else.

 

[chicago51]

Freeman as DC wouldn't have helped.

Let's be honest mobile QBs were a problem for the 2021 Marcus Freeman ND defense all year (excluding the Navy game which was a unique offense that requires a unique defense).

Rather that is personel or coaching or a bit of both, mobile spread QBs that forced ND's good pass rush to slow down were a problem. It didn't matter who called the plays.

Hopefully Marcus Freeman attacks this problem from a recruiting standpoint, a scheme standpoint, and a preparation standpoint. Need to take an all of the above approach to get better in 2022.

If Buchner wasn't going to play, ND would have been better off using him as scout team Spencer Sanders. Hopefully defense will get better this spring getting most of their reps against Buchner instead of statue Jack Cohen.

 

[BeatSC]

Yes, it was a bad loss, but Kelly had 11 years to win a NY6 game. Good grief.

Kelly was never favored or even close in any of the NY6/playoff games they were in. I will agree he was always out coached but he was also outgunned. Freeman was totally outcoached and had the Breyer players. I will say this is another example of our opponent having a vastly superior QB to ours and that matters. Coan played well but he also made some crucial errors and misses. Not to mention never taking off and picking up some yards with his feet. That puts the D on notice and he is either stupidl, chicken or I don’t know what when he hardly ever uses his legs for us. Kudos to our Oline for their protection but I will stay say the two sacks Coan took were a pathetic commentary on his ability to avoid them. Goes down way too easy. Buchner would have had numbers more like Saunders and we would have had a run game. Our RBs will be kicking their chops as will our Olineman at the prospect of Coan moving on and TB getting inserted.

Not inserting TB for one series in the second half was a pathetic lack of coaching. So we really think Kelly was going on to sit back and continue to watch Coan and Rees punk out over and over? No Fn way!

 

[NDRock]

Freeman as DC wouldn't have helped.

Let's be honest mobile QBs were a problem for the 2021 Marcus Freeman ND defense all year (excluding the Navy game which was a unique offense that requires a unique defense).

Rather that is personel or coaching or a bit of both, mobile spread QBs that forced ND's good pass rush to slow down were a problem. It didn't matter who called the plays.

Hopefully Marcus Freeman attacks this problem from a recruiting standpoint, a scheme standpoint, and a preparation standpoint. Need to take an all of the above approach to get better in 2022.

If Buchner wasn't going to play, ND would have been better off using him as scout team Spencer Sanders. Hopefully defense will get better this spring getting most of their reps against Buchner instead of statue Jack Cohen.

Mobile QBs are a problem for every defense, especially with our lack of athleticism at LB.

 

[BeatSC]

Michigan 2011. Stanford 2015. Texas 2016. Duke 2016. Michigan 2019. Miami 2017. Northwestern 2014. Navy 2010. Tulsa 2010. South Florida 2011.

The two Michigan loses were as bad/worse than this.

This was bad and raises red flags for Freeman but Kelly had all kinds of mind numbingly bad loses over the years on a pretty consistent basis.

Were they up by 21 in any of those losses? This was the worst example of a Jekyll and Hyde performance since the 1974 USC Anthony Davis debacle. Teams have shitty games and we have overall worse losses than this one but to be up by 21 and then allow 30 (should have been 37) points to an offense that might not have a single person drafted is devastating. This is a rug pulled out from under you experience. All year Kelly would insert Buchner for a boost to the O when it struggled and nuthin yesterday! Not to mention we did 2022 and TB no favors by giving him zero chances to make plays. Can you imagine how many yards Buchner legs would have provided by just taking off and running on a called pass play? Brian dead second half coaching by all on ND. Couple that with a complete meltdown on defensive fundamentals and this is what you have. Coaching = epic failure. We doubled everyone’s pay and 5X freeman’s so they can take a little shit for this.

 

[Dizzyphil]

Good lord. Freeman was involved in yesterday's defense and added nothing. Do you honestly think Freeman didn't have some input on the defensive calls yesterday? Imagine if what you and others have said is true that Elston was given free reigns. Freeman decided to give Elston (who has never coordinated a defense) game plan, game adjustment, and game calling duties for Freeman's defense scheme for a New Years Bowl game. He only stepped in the fourth quarter? Really? If that is true, then Freeman should be fired for gross incompetence.

The reality is that Freeman was involved and again has been exposed for his inability to adjust. Elston, the linebackers, the secondary,...the list goes on...who are being used as excuses for Freeman's abject failure. If it was a personnel issue, then we would have struggled from the beginning on the defensive side of the ball. OSU adjusted and we either did not or didn't know what to adjust to to counter them...inexperience.

Then on the offensive side of the ball, Tommy apparently thinks he is a co-head coach and decides to call offensive plays without any regards to the defense. Freeman allowing Tommy to call that many pass plays is again indicative of inexperience. For Tommy to think he can win the game by throwing more than 60 times is indicative of his arrogance and his lack of experience. The blind leading the blind.

Gundy didn't have a DC for the game and shut down the Irish Offense in the second half. In fact, he used three position coaches to make the decisions on the OSU defensive scheme. It worked..... I don't know what Freeman had to HC not to call the defense for the game instead of Elston.

 

[FDNYIrish1]

I think we learned why Elston has been passed up multiple times for DC.

 

[ND88]

Their QB balled out, but to say he was vastly superior than Coan is a joke. Coan's weakness has always been he is slow as molasses. We will need a dual QB moving forward (ahem, TB?) if we don't produce a line that can run block.

All the "we had more stars than them" doesn't equate to much when the gaps are in key spots where athleticism and ability matter (especially in regards to scheme). Our secondary and LB core are sorely unathletic, poor fits for Freeman's scheme, or just not particularly good (Houston). Someone with the data should list out the stars for all these dudes. Starting with Lewis: three stars.

Bramblett, Doer, Lewis, Bracy, and the LB group lost us that game (Drew had a big play though). Lewis was just broken at one point, you could see his body language. Many of these guys have the heart, but not that extra something needed to be dominant.

Some adjustments couldn't have been made because WE HAVE SLOW PLAYERS WHO STILL CAN'T TACKLE or GET TO THE OPPONENT quickly enough.

This is coaching. I'm hoping Freeman can really transform some of the softness that still lingers at a super privileged school like ND.

NOTRE DAME FOOTBALL PLAYERS are shielded by a lot of privilege. I don't mean in their personal lives at home. I mean as players at Notre Dame. Can you imagine? That campus can breed comfort alone. Then think of all the perks and people blowing smoke 24/7 at you as a player. EDGE is a hard thing to build unless you feel like you have to CUT back. This is the missing element of culture at ND for 30 years+. GENUINE EDGE. Not built by Balis. Vicious midwestern edge. I hope Freeman can get it out of them. If he can unlock that beast, we will be deadly.

FREEMAN INHERITED ALL OF IT: the culture, the coaches, the players. People writing him off at this point are either (1) emotionally on a cliff and need to step back (2) lazy af or (3) racist [yea, I said it, come at me.] The guy is a winner. He will win.

Did Freeman look out of his element as a first time head coach? Yes.

Will he adjust? Yes.

Is recruiting important? Yes.

Do we need to recruit better secondary and LB players? Yes.

Have we? Will we? Freeman and co are off to a good start, need to finish strong.

There is going to continue to be receiver attrition. They need a superhire coach who can train these guys up. SO MUCH POTENTIAL. They should sent more touches to Colzie. If Austin leaves, it's a mistake, but it will also speak to him not wanting the coaching he needs and could potentially get. You can see these guys are undercoached and that needs to change.

This "sky is falling" bullshit and "we need to accept that ND can only win the Citrus Bowl" is for DRAMA QUEENS who fantasize about being Alabama fans, the good old days and/or so they can come on a message board to spew their garbage. Notice how most people who come on here to cry rarely come on here to express excitement about all the good things that do happen. There's a reason for that. They're suckers.

 

[IrishRazor82]

I'm far more concerned with Rees than I am Freeman after yesterday's game. Freeman's had like 5 minutes to put his touch on this team, Rees has had 2 years.

Going into the 2nd half, not expecting a well coached OSU to make adjustments defensively and just forcing more Coan was mind boggling. You know OSU will adjust their starting defense and looks, expect that and put in Buchner to counter. Buchner's been succesful all year at coming in and throwing a wrench in the defense and getting the run game going. I will credit Rees all day for the original game plan but you don't marry the game plan when adjustments are made. Especially when your QB isn't that good.

I'm very excited Coan has graduated so Rees isn't dumb enough to play him like he's a team carrying-heisman type player. That's all I'll say.

 

[chicago51]

Mobile QBs are a problem for every defense, especially with our lack of athleticism at LB.

Yes I'm painfully well aware of this from own coaching experiences even if it's not D1 college football.

There was 1 time so I still remember it where I was like yep that QB was a better athlete than most of our defensive players and we held him in check because we just played and schemed great. 1 time in 17 years.

But normally it's been we held a mobile QB in check because we had superior athletes at LB and/or d-line. Or we didn't have superior athletes and the game was very painful defensively.

 

[IrishRazor82]

Duplicate.

 

[rtrn2glory]

I think we learned why Elston has been passed up multiple times for DC.

Actuallyi think we learned that our schedule the last two months of the year was trash

 

[irishandy]

Postgame Thoughts:
1) I was pleased with the offensive game plan. ND HAD to pass the ball as much as they did. If we run the ball, ND has more 3 and outs than they do TD's in the first half. Running the ball would've been a poor offensive game plan.
2) I think MF let Rees game plan the offensive instead of how Kelly would've had his hand in the game plan pot.
3) Coan played great- we can discuss all day about his mobility, but when he gets protection, gets rid of the ball quickly, and plays smart he is fun to watch. I enjoyed him this year.
4) Styles was another bright spot, he could have a big year next year
5) Defense got gassed big time- the momentum changer was OSU scoring the last drive in the 2nd quarter and the first drive of the 3rd quarter. What if ND makes a stop on one of those 2 drives?
6) ND had no answer for Tay Martin.
7) I agree with all of the comments about MF needing a DC. Elston has been great for ND, but he is not he answer for the DC.
8) We lost by 2 points and people are bitching like we got blown out...

To me the MF era starts next season. Since taking the HC I am sure it's been a whirlwind for him and we could go through growing pains next season. I would've like to see more emotion on the sidelines, but he will get this team ready for another OSU.

Did Kelly win? I will consider Kelly winning when he beats Bama and now he gets to play them every year.

Still a great season!

Go Irish!

 

[chicago51]

Actuallyi think we learned that our schedule the last two months of the year was trash

Yes.

And that defense still couldn't defend an offense that didn't have a statue pocket passing QB (besides Navy but that is a unique offense that ND runs a semi unique defense for).

 

[IrishLax]

I'm far more concerned with Rees than I am Freeman after yesterday's game. Freeman's had like 5 minutes to put his touch on this team, Rees has had 2 years.

Going into the 2nd half, not expecting a well coached OSU to make adjustments defensively and just forcing more Coan was mind boggling. You know OSU will adjust their starting defense and looks, expect that and put in Buchner to counter. Buchner's been succesful all year at coming in and throwing a wrench in the defense and getting the run game going.

I'm very excited Coan has graduated so Rees isn't dumb enough to play him like he's a team carrying-heisman type player. That's all I'll say.

Again, why are you concerned with Rees? He drastically exceeded all reasonable expectations for yards and points on a top 10 defense. He did it without the emotional leader on that side of the ball and arguably most impactful player.

The first half game plan + execution was the most genius thing I have seen from an ND OC since year one of the Weis era. In the second half, they started press covering and grabbing/holding receivers. Didn’t get calls and players didn’t execute. Coan had a lot of misses, some WRs had drops, Diggs had a screen play where he should have scored but got ankle tackled because he is slow, two ridiculous drive killing turnovers, etc. Is what it is, but stuff was open.

ND has 99 problems but offensive scheme isn’t one. They have 9 months to teach Buchner how to be a pocket passer and if he can read defenses/throw accurately then watch out.

 

[fightingirish26]

Actuallyi think we learned that our schedule the last two months of the year was trash

This leads to the all important question: just how good was ND this year? Zero top 25 wins. Top 10? Fringe top 25?

 

[IrishLax]

This leads to the all important question: just how good was ND this year? Zero top 25 wins. Top 10? Fringe top 25?

Probably the worst ND team of the past 5 years but found ways to win games against bad teams.

The team next year projects as much more talented… but plays a daunting schedule… with the following needing to go right:
1. Get multiple DB transfers or have freshman take huge steps forward
2. Stay healthy at LB, Liufau reaches his potential, maybe add an athletic MLB for situations like yesterday.
3. Get players to come back for another year on the DL.
4. Hire a proven DC (I’m personally a fan of Mike Tressel).
5. Buchner learns how to be an accurate pocket passer and read defenses. He also stays healthy for a full season.
6. Add 1-2 impact WRs in the portal and retain Styles/Colzie.
7. TE stays healthy. OL stays healthy. Both project as elite.
8. Marcus Freeman grows into a competent game day coach.

Long list, but if all of those things happens then I think it’s going to be a 10 win team against a rough schedule. The running game is going to be elite as long as the OL and Buchner stay healthy.

 

[FDNYIrish1]

Actuallyi think we learned that our schedule the last two months of the year was trash

Of all the DCs that Elston has learned from at ND, he steals a game plan from BVG!!!

 

[rtrn2glory]

Of all the DCs that Elston has learned from at ND, he steals a game plan from BVG!!!

Do we really think that MF didn't have a huge influence on the defensive game plan? I think he was more involved yesterday when the defense was on the field than we want to believe. I'm not going to use Elston as a punching bag. It was a collective failure by all involved defensively

 

[chicago51]

Rees made adjustments. He clearly studied the crap out of this defense out this defense and made his adjustments BEFORE the game even started, and they worked . Because of Rees coaching adjustments ND scored 28 first half points against a defense that was better than them (not more talented but better overall from a talent + experience + execution standpoint) . Once OkSt counter adjusted them being the better unit showed. Maybe there was a counter adjustment Rees could of made but sometimes when a unit is just better than your unit there is no counter adjustment.

The defensive staff made adjustments too. Well at least they tried. They ran mostly zone early, but they tried more man coverage as Ok St started scoring. They tried blitzing and sending pressure. They tried not blitzing and dropping 7 into coverage. They tried some Nickel personnel. They tried stuff. There's a lot of window dressing with it but at the end of the day there is only so many ways to play defense.

If you want to fault the defense for not benching Clarence Lewis and trying Ryan Barnes (Tariq B was already on the field a lot playing Nickel), I wouldn't disagree with you. Would the Barnes a freshman have been good enough? Idk. But the one area where defensive staff could of tried adjustments was personnel.

Maybe they could have played Cam Hart on Ok St best WR, even though in college you typically want your best CB in the boundary. Unlikely this would have worked as Lewis was struggling against everyone. And Ok St could have used motions potentially to still get the match ups they wanted (this would however at least have put the pressure on Ok St to make the next move).

But schematically the ND defensive staff tried making adjustments.

 

[chicago51]

Do we really think that MF didn't have a huge influence on the defensive game plan? I think he was more involved yesterday when the defense was on the field than we want to believe. I'm not going to use Elston as a punching bag. It was a collective failure by all involved defensively

He did have a huge influence. He said in Friday press conference he was only with the offense during some of the good on good periods. Every time the starters were going against the scout team Freeman said he was with the defense. He said so himself he was very involved.

 

[FDNYIrish1]

Do we really think that MF didn't have a huge influence on the defensive game plan? I think he was more involved yesterday when the defense was on the field than we want to believe. I'm not going to use Elston as a punching bag. It was a collective failure by all involved defensively

I’m just busting chops. It was a collective failure by all involved. Hopefully the staff learns from this, we just couldn’t cover up some glaring weaknesses. I have hope for the future. This was not supposed to be a team in a ny6 bowl. We dodged some serious bullets to have success this year. It still sucks but I’m hopeful.

 

[chicago51]

Hindsight is 2020. But seeing how Buchner didn't play, they should have just made him scout team QB. He would have had more value to the team trying to prepare the defense for a mobile QB like Spencer Sanders than taking reps with the starters.

 

[BabyIrish]

In a bit of lighter news, apparently some of our students were given code of conduct warnings by security for doing the touch down push ups

 

[IrishDan]

Rees had a great game plan in the first half and then did NOT seem to make adjustments in the 2nd. He was still calling hitch routes at the sticks, as if the OSU DB's were still giving them a buffer...they were not.

He completely abandoned the run game in the 4th quarter, which was idiotic. Go ask Mike Leach how successful you can be against a good defense when throwing the ball 50+ times every game. You HAVE to run the ball at some point. Last time I checked, averaging over 3 yards per carry isn't enough reason to stop running.

3:07 left to play in the game, all 3 T.O.'s - they get 4 yards on the first play - RUN THE DAMN BALL

I have no faith in Rees - I understand the stats they put up - but my guess is Kyren would not have gotten the yards he had if BK wasn't the coach. BK wants to run the ball first, Rees wants to have Andre Ware as his QB.

 

[ND88]

Rees had a great game plan in the first half and then did NOT seem to make adjustments in the 2nd. He was still calling hitch routes at the sticks, as if the OSU DB's were still giving them a buffer...they were not.

He completely abandoned the run game in the 4th quarter, which was idiotic. Go ask Mike Leach how successful you can be against a good defense when throwing the ball 50+ times every game. You HAVE to run the ball at some point. Last time I checked, averaging over 3 yards per carry isn't enough reason to stop running.

3:07 left to play in the game, all 3 T.O.'s - they get 4 yards on the first play - RUN THE DAMN BALL

I have no faith in Rees - I understand the stats they put up - but my guess is Kyren would not have gotten the yards he had if BK wasn't the coach. BK wants to run the ball first, Rees wants to have Andre Ware as his QB.

Rees did many good things, but the worst decision he made was to not play TB in the second half. It would have been a smart risk, and he showed stubbornness which was not a good reveal. My hope is that he hasn’t been indoctrinated by Kelly too much in stubbornness. My other hope is that Freeman works hard to truly gain that authority as head coach. Too much deference to any coordinator is not a good thing. Freeman has to lean on his coordinators, but only lean, not give over completely.