COVID-19

notredomer23

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I've mentioned before that I got the vaccines, but this is spot on. It's only been a year and a half. Hard to tell what the effects will be. Could be nil, or could be some long term side effects. Is five years long enough? I have no idea, but it's better than 1 1/2 years.

I understand this POV, but as has been pointed out in this thread, it's the vaccine itself that can cause side effects, not the immune response it triggers. If the vaccine is exiting the body rather quickly, how can there be long term side effects? Any long term side effects would present in the immediate period following vaccination.

I think it's definitely worth studying the cases of myocarditis caused by the vaccine in the immediate period following, and what the risk-benefit ends up being for those under 18 or so. If the true number is 12.6 cases of myocarditis per million doses compared to this piece from the CDC that says myocarditis presented itself in 0.146% of COVID cases that had an inpatient or outpatient encounter, then to me the risk-benefit dictates that everyone should get it. But the myocarditis following vaccine was for 18-39, not younger, and the CDC was following severe patients, which most youth do not get to that stage. The more data the better. And if the data dictates it's not worth it for under 16s or whatever to get the vaccine, then why push it. It's still worth it for most everyone else.
 

Irishize

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Does anyone argue that the vast majority of patients being hospitalized are unvaccinated adults w/ COVID 19? Surely we can all agree on that.

Same goes for children under 12 or folks w/ medical reasons not getting the vax? Surely we can all get behind that.

If I had contracted COVID previously and believed my antibodies were sufficient I would still ask my PCP if I should get the vax. Not my friends, not podcasts, not social media, not the politicians or KOLs I agree with…just my doctor.

I think the two biggest keys moving forward are finding out how long a person’s antibodies protect them once they’ve had COVID. The other is how long the vaccine offers protection so they know how many weeks to truly separate the booster.

IMHO, I think the Biden Admin got out over the skis by prematurely pushing a 3rd vax for all. I’m surprised no one has brought up the FDA members that quit their posts in defiance of this premature announcement. They went on to verbalize their disagreement in the Lancet. I couldn’t find a link with the free article but it sounds like the politicians aren’t patiently following the science.
 

TorontoGold

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Does anyone argue that the vast majority of patients being hospitalized are unvaccinated adults w/ COVID 19? Surely we can all agree on that.

Same goes for children under 12 or folks w/ medical reasons not getting the vax? Surely we can all get behind that.

If I had contracted COVID previously and believed my antibodies were sufficient I would still ask my PCP if I should get the vax. Not my friends, not podcasts, not social media, not the politicians or KOLs I agree with…just my doctor.

I think the two biggest keys moving forward are finding out how long a person’s antibodies protect them once they’ve had COVID. The other is how long the vaccine offers protection so they know how many weeks to truly separate the booster.

IMHO, I think the Biden Admin got out over the skis by prematurely pushing a 3rd vax for all. I’m surprised no one has brought up the FDA members that quit their posts in defiance of this premature announcement. They went on to verbalize their disagreement in the Lancet. I couldn’t find a link with the free article but it sounds like the politicians aren’t patiently following the science.

Yep, the fact that grown adults are taking horse paste is an abject failure. Or that adults aren't even considering the vaccine. Horrid messaging.
 

ab2cmiller

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Does anyone argue that the vast majority of patients being hospitalized are unvaccinated adults w/ COVID 19? Surely we can all agree on that.

Same goes for children under 12 or folks w/ medical reasons not getting the vax? Surely we can all get behind that.

If I had contracted COVID previously and believed my antibodies were sufficient I would still ask my PCP if I should get the vax. Not my friends, not podcasts, not social media, not the politicians or KOLs I agree with…just my doctor.

I think the two biggest keys moving forward are finding out how long a person’s antibodies protect them once they’ve had COVID. The other is how long the vaccine offers protection so they know how many weeks to truly separate the booster.

IMHO, I think the Biden Admin got out over the skis by prematurely pushing a 3rd vax for all. I’m surprised no one has brought up the FDA members that quit their posts in defiance of this premature announcement. They went on to verbalize their disagreement in the Lancet. I couldn’t find a link with the free article but it sounds like the politicians aren’t patiently following the science.

Agreed. I think the main area of potential disagreement going forward (as you eluded to) is in relation to the concept of antibodies. What is Fauci's goal? What should be the goal?

If the goal is always having antibodies in our system to decrease the chance that anyone even gets infected, then we will be encouraged to take boosters repeatedly for the foreseeable future. If the goal is to have an immune system that is primed enough to stave off serious complications, then we likely don't need boosters and those that have previously had COVID don't need to take the vaccine.

The other area that concerns me is the almost total silence regarding the protection that people have because they were previously infected with COVID. Instead, they are generally lumped in with the unvaccinated and treated as such. For some reason, we expect those people to get the vaccine even though the studies have shown that they have better long lasting protection than those that got vaccinated.
 

notredomer23

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The other area that concerns me is the almost total silence regarding the protection that people have because they were previously infected with COVID. Instead, they are generally lumped in with the unvaccinated and treated as such. For some reason, we expect those people to get the vaccine even though the studies have shown that they have better long lasting protection than those that got vaccinated.

I mostly agree with this. It just reeks of dishonesty especially because the US is the only country that ignores natural immunity. They could have easily framed the discussion as "recovered from COVID? Great, you have a durable immunity. Why not take one shot of vaccine to boost it even more". Instead it's crickets, even denying it.
 

PerthDomer

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I mostly agree with this. It just reeks of dishonesty especially because the US is the only country that ignores natural immunity. They could have easily framed the discussion as "recovered from COVID? Great, you have a durable immunity. Why not take one shot of vaccine to boost it even more". Instead it's crickets, even denying it.

The consensus medical opinion is a single vaccine post infection is better than either vaccine or natural immunity (assuming there's a decent interval between the two) at least where I worked considered one shot after infection w/PCR and/or antibodies fully vaccinated. It does seem like mild infections don't offer great immunity on their own. There are several documented cases of reinfection of young healthy folks landing them in the ICU. We really don't know why.
 

Valpodoc85

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I would look at some of the podcasts with Robert Gallo. He is a famous virologist, heads up the global viral network and researcher on all things HIV. He has noted the covid spike is glycosolated much like HIV. It is his opinion that the glycosolation somehow affects the immune response and makes it less durable. It maybe glycosolation is variable or the response we generate to it is variable leading to differences in response. As far as I know they are doing viral genotyping and not phenotying when it comes to the new strains. However that maybe prompting the immune system to maintain higher antibody titers seems to be the most sound position
 

Wild Bill

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Curious to see if those that admonish my tone, will do something similar here? Or that's only saved for me lol guess we'll see!

I'm glad you have some form of immunity and are willing to get other vaccines.

Essentially what I'm gathering is you/Bill/Miller have determined that a COVID vaccine for a child poses more risk than contracting it?

Yeah it's all about trusting the science for me.
 

NorthDakota

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Nicki Minaj.

That's my post for this thread today.

Have a good weekend.

I'm about as Based Red Pills GOP as it gets and that shit was wild af.

On one hand...literally no better piece of subhuman trash to call out than Joy Reid. She is a shittier person than every one person on MSM combined...and that includes Tubin and Chris Hayes.

But enlarged balls? Lmaoooooooo I died.
 

BrownerandFry

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per Worldometer 1938 Covid deaths yesterday in the United States

2018 the day before.

In other words, more people died of COVID in the last 48 hours than died in New York City on 9/11/2011

I am not amused

Nor distracted by stupid jokes and shiny pennies.

Get vaccinated.

Tell your friends to get vaccinated

tell your neighbors to get vaccinated.


this is not a joke

This is not a comedy sketch'
'
 

PerthDomer

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Do these guys take any medications? Most modern medications have been tested on fetal cell lines. In fact, the cell line used was obtained from a fetus in the Netherlands in the 70s. Prior to 1984 abortion was illegal except in instances of Rape, incest, or the life of the mother. The pope doesn't accept fetal cells as a reason to not get vaccinated. Give me a break.
 

BrownerandFry

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Do these guys take any medications? Most modern medications have been tested on fetal cell lines. In fact, the cell line used was obtained from a fetus in the Netherlands in the 70s. Prior to 1984 abortion was illegal except in instances of Rape, incest, or the life of the mother. The pope doesn't accept fetal cells as a reason to not get vaccinated. Give me a break.

I have no medical expertise

I have VAST experience in

Sincere religious belief
HYPOCRITES, PHARISEES, duplicitous phony religious arguments.


The ONLY Christian denomination that has walked the talk on vaccination is the Christian Science folks. And they have stood fast, with consequences,for centuries.

But, but BUT, they are staunch in NOT opposing vaccines for Covid, and they are NOT persuading their members to turn down vaccine on religious grounds.

That my friend, is integrity and consistency with message.

But there are a lot of Christian Faker/Fakirs around.

These people know little about Christ and they try to do the following

Clown Jesus
Make Christ their political bitch.

As a backsliding student of Christ and his TEACHINGS, I have ZERO tolerance for such phonies.

"Get thee hence" to them.

But i get more worried everyday about medical and caregiver fatigue.

I know you and Valpodoc and Cackalacy's sister are in that profession, but I beg you, get some rest and recreation. PLEASE!........

BEG
 

Irish#1

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bULSjlH.jpeg
 

InKellyWeTrust

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This thread is a microcosm of our increasingly dichotomous society. On one hand there are doctors who've studied, learned, and dedicated their lives to a profession and on the other hand are people who know just enough to be dangerous. Your choice who to trust.

Full disclosure - I'm one of those doctors and no, at this point I don't care what antivax conclusions you've reached through your own "research".
 

InKellyWeTrust

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I understand this POV, but as has been pointed out in this thread, it's the vaccine itself that can cause side effects, not the immune response it triggers. If the vaccine is exiting the body rather quickly, how can there be long term side effects? Any long term side effects would present in the immediate period following vaccination.

I think it's definitely worth studying the cases of myocarditis caused by the vaccine in the immediate period following, and what the risk-benefit ends up being for those under 18 or so. If the true number is 12.6 cases of myocarditis per million doses compared to this piece from the CDC that says myocarditis presented itself in 0.146% of COVID cases that had an inpatient or outpatient encounter, then to me the risk-benefit dictates that everyone should get it. But the myocarditis following vaccine was for 18-39, not younger, and the CDC was following severe patients, which most youth do not get to that stage. The more data the better. And if the data dictates it's not worth it for under 16s or whatever to get the vaccine, then why push it. It's still worth it for most everyone else.

There is myocarditis (mild inflammation of the heart causing some shortness of breath, palpitations, and exercise intolerance - take some Nsaids and rest - get better) and then there is MYOCARDITIS (sick as sh** in the ICU on pressors and fighting for your life). The overwhelming majority of myocarditis cases described in the literature in young adult and adolescents ASSOCIATED (not necessarily caused) with the COVID vaccine are mild. Also, the VAERS system, which is the database for reporting vaccine side effects, is being actively targeted by antivaccine groups. Take that for what it's worth.
 

Irish#1

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This thread is a microcosm of our increasingly dichotomous society. On one hand there are doctors who've studied, learned, and dedicated their lives to a profession and on the other hand are people who know just enough to be dangerous. Your choice who to trust.

Full disclosure - I'm one of those doctors and no, at this point I don't care what antivax conclusions you've reached through your own "research".

IMO, there's just a handful of posters here who don't trust the science. Those that do trust it aren't influenced by the anti's.
 

Wild Bill

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There is myocarditis (mild inflammation of the heart causing some shortness of breath, palpitations, and exercise intolerance - take some Nsaids and rest - get better) and then there is MYOCARDITIS (sick as sh** in the ICU on pressors and fighting for your life). The overwhelming majority of myocarditis cases described in the literature in young adult and adolescents ASSOCIATED (not necessarily caused) with the COVID vaccine are mild. Also, the VAERS system, which is the database for reporting vaccine side effects, is being actively targeted by antivaccine groups. Take that for what it's worth.

You sound more like a lawyer than a doctor.
 

Valpodoc85

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I mentioned this in another thread, there is a guy named Randy Farrell. His is an experimental psychologist. Discovered the relationship between symmetry and attractiveness. Anyhow, he has been working on the parasite stress theory of values. He would say the anti vax/ ivermectin crowd are exhibiting collective behavior and it is genetically driven.
 

Irishize

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I mentioned this in another thread, there is a guy named Randy Farrell. His is an experimental psychologist. Discovered the relationship between symmetry and attractiveness. Anyhow, he has been working on the parasite stress theory of values. He would say the anti vax/ ivermectin crowd are exhibiting collective behavior and it is genetically driven.

Interesting. What would he say about all the talking heads who appeared anti-vax before Biden won the election? Not trying to be snarky b/c there were a lot that went from “no way were they taking a hastily approved vaccine” to “anyone who doesn’t take the vaccine is deplorable”. I think it’s politics on both sides (for the most part).

I’ve linked the thread of tweets I refer to b/c I didn’t realize how many there were speaking out against the vax unitl “their guy” won the WH.

https://twitter.com/ellencarmichael/status/1438860856117407748?s=21
 

Valpodoc85

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Interesting. What would he say about all the talking heads who appeared anti-vax before Biden won the election? Not trying to be snarky b/c there were a lot that went from “no way were they taking a hastily approved vaccine” to “anyone who doesn’t take the vaccine is deplorable”. I think it’s politics on both sides (for the most part).

I’ve linked the thread of tweets I refer to b/c I didn’t realize how many there were speaking out against the vax unitl “their guy” won the WH.

https://twitter.com/ellencarmichael/status/1438860856117407748?s=21

I think there can be more truth in what people do and not what they say.
 

Irishize

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I still wonder if the vax rate would’ve stalled out had J&J’s vaccine not been temporarily halted earlier this year.



Booster dose of J&J's COVID-19 vaccine shows 75% effectiveness


(Ref: CNBC, The Wall Street Journal, ABC News, U.S. News & World Report, CNN, Investing.com, TheStreet, PR Newswire)
September 21st, 2021
By: Anna Bratulic

Johnson & Johnson on Tuesday said results from the Phase III ENSEMBLE 2 study showed that a booster of its single-dose COVID-19 vaccine Ad26.COV2.S increased protection against symptomatic illness, demonstrating efficacy of 75%, rising to 94% in people in the US, when given two months after the initial shot. In addition, the viral vector vaccine afforded 100% protection against severe or critical disease at least two weeks after the booster.

"We now have generated evidence that a booster shot further increases protection against COVID-19 and is expected to extend the duration of protection significantly," remarked chief scientific officer Paul Stoffels. The new data may help Johnson & Johnson convince the FDA to greenlight a booster shot to some 14.8 million Americans who have so far received Ad26.COV2.S, which is currently the only single-dose coronavirus vaccine authorised in the US for emergency use.

ENSEMBLE 2 tested the efficacy of two Ad26.COV2.S doses, given 56 days apart, versus placebo, in adults regardless of whether they had comorbidities. Johnson & Johnson said that overall, there were 14 cases of moderate-to-severe/critical COVID-19 in the trial, compared to 52 for placebo. In the US, there was one case in the vaccine group, versus 14 in the placebo arm. Meanwhile, the company noted that there were eight instances of severe/critical COVID-19 in the placebo group, compared to none among those who got the booster shot.
Booster appears more protective after longer gap


Johnson & Johnson also elaborated on some promising booster data first reported last month. It said that when a second dose of Ad26.COV2.S was given two months after the initial shot, antibody levels rose four- to six-times higher than what was seen after the first. Those levels rose even further with an extended gap between doses – a booster shot at six months after the initial dose elicited a 12-fold jump in antibodies, when measured four weeks after the extra shot was given. The company noted that all increases were irrespective of age.

The Biden administration had been hoping to begin a mass booster rollout using mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccines this week, although the plan has met with pushback from those who think there is not enough evidence to do that yet. Late last week, an FDA advisory panel voted against giving out third doses of Pfizer and BioNTech's COVID-19 vaccine Comirnaty for use in the general population, but did recommend booster doses for people 65-plus and high-risk populations. A final decision by the FDA is expected any day now.

Moderna is also seeking an FDA nod for a booster dose of its vaccine mRNA-1273. Anthony Fauci, the US government's top infectious diseases expert, said in the last few days that data needed to determine the advisability of booster shots of Moderna and Johnson & Johnson's COVID-19 vaccines is just "weeks away."
Real-world study


Meanwhile, Johnson & Johnson also reported on Tuesday evidence from a real-world study in the US that it said were "consistent" with the pivotal Phase III ENSEMBLE trial that was used to garner the current authorisation for its vaccine. The study analysed data from 390,000 people who received Ad26.COV2.S versus approximately 1.5 million unvaccinated matched individuals, and included predictors for COVID-19 infection severity conducted from March to late July 2021.

Johnson & Johnson said vaccine effectiveness was 79% for COVID-19-related infections and 81% for hospitalisations overall. Protection against hospitalisations was higher in people under 60 than it was for older individuals, at 86% and 78%, respectively.
 

TorontoGold

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I still wonder if the vax rate would’ve stalled out had J&J’s vaccine not been temporarily halted earlier this year.



Booster dose of J&J's COVID-19 vaccine shows 75% effectiveness


(Ref: CNBC, The Wall Street Journal, ABC News, U.S. News & World Report, CNN, Investing.com, TheStreet, PR Newswire)
September 21st, 2021
By: Anna Bratulic

Johnson & Johnson on Tuesday said results from the Phase III ENSEMBLE 2 study showed that a booster of its single-dose COVID-19 vaccine Ad26.COV2.S increased protection against symptomatic illness, demonstrating efficacy of 75%, rising to 94% in people in the US, when given two months after the initial shot. In addition, the viral vector vaccine afforded 100% protection against severe or critical disease at least two weeks after the booster.

"We now have generated evidence that a booster shot further increases protection against COVID-19 and is expected to extend the duration of protection significantly," remarked chief scientific officer Paul Stoffels. The new data may help Johnson & Johnson convince the FDA to greenlight a booster shot to some 14.8 million Americans who have so far received Ad26.COV2.S, which is currently the only single-dose coronavirus vaccine authorised in the US for emergency use.

ENSEMBLE 2 tested the efficacy of two Ad26.COV2.S doses, given 56 days apart, versus placebo, in adults regardless of whether they had comorbidities. Johnson & Johnson said that overall, there were 14 cases of moderate-to-severe/critical COVID-19 in the trial, compared to 52 for placebo. In the US, there was one case in the vaccine group, versus 14 in the placebo arm. Meanwhile, the company noted that there were eight instances of severe/critical COVID-19 in the placebo group, compared to none among those who got the booster shot.
Booster appears more protective after longer gap


Johnson & Johnson also elaborated on some promising booster data first reported last month. It said that when a second dose of Ad26.COV2.S was given two months after the initial shot, antibody levels rose four- to six-times higher than what was seen after the first. Those levels rose even further with an extended gap between doses – a booster shot at six months after the initial dose elicited a 12-fold jump in antibodies, when measured four weeks after the extra shot was given. The company noted that all increases were irrespective of age.

The Biden administration had been hoping to begin a mass booster rollout using mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccines this week, although the plan has met with pushback from those who think there is not enough evidence to do that yet. Late last week, an FDA advisory panel voted against giving out third doses of Pfizer and BioNTech's COVID-19 vaccine Comirnaty for use in the general population, but did recommend booster doses for people 65-plus and high-risk populations. A final decision by the FDA is expected any day now.

Moderna is also seeking an FDA nod for a booster dose of its vaccine mRNA-1273. Anthony Fauci, the US government's top infectious diseases expert, said in the last few days that data needed to determine the advisability of booster shots of Moderna and Johnson & Johnson's COVID-19 vaccines is just "weeks away."
Real-world study


Meanwhile, Johnson & Johnson also reported on Tuesday evidence from a real-world study in the US that it said were "consistent" with the pivotal Phase III ENSEMBLE trial that was used to garner the current authorisation for its vaccine. The study analysed data from 390,000 people who received Ad26.COV2.S versus approximately 1.5 million unvaccinated matched individuals, and included predictors for COVID-19 infection severity conducted from March to late July 2021.

Johnson & Johnson said vaccine effectiveness was 79% for COVID-19-related infections and 81% for hospitalisations overall. Protection against hospitalisations was higher in people under 60 than it was for older individuals, at 86% and 78%, respectively.

I'm not sure it would. We went through a similar situation up here with the AztraZeneca vaccine where we halted it for blood clot issues. Vax rates were largely unaffected by it.
 

Irishize

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I'm not sure it would. We went through a similar situation up here with the AztraZeneca vaccine where we halted it for blood clot issues. Vax rates were largely unaffected by it.

Fair but does Canada have a swath of citizens who were on the fence regarding the vax? Think of all the Americans who not necessarily anti but on the fence and then they pulled the plug on J&J and that ended up being the tipping point. Granted it’s pure speculation on my part but the timing coincided w/ a decrease in the vax uptake.
 

TorontoGold

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Fair but does Canada have a swath of citizens who were on the fence regarding the vax? Think of all the Americans who not necessarily anti but on the fence and then they pulled the plug on J&J and that ended up being the tipping point. Granted it’s pure speculation on my part but the timing coincided w/ a decrease in the vax uptake.

100% we did/do. There's still a decent contingent of anti-vax people out there. The real key was having our conservative provincial governments embrace vaccines and not make it a political issue. We have a political party that made it a key policy point to be anti-vax lol
 
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