'21 MI OL Rocco Spindler (Notre Dame Early Enrollee)

[Trait Expectations]

Pass block grade gave Correll one or the best in the country. His run block grade was essentially second on the team behind Fisher/Carmody

Yeah, i want to walk this back. I saw PFF's grades and heard what others are saying and I haven't gone back to watch it so I want to take my statement back on Correll. It's unfair when I haven't watched paying particular attention to the OL.

It looks like Rocco should be replacing Madden. That is trash blocking on his part if he's a 5th year senior. Let Spindler grown into the position and see how he grades out but we have to have answers before Wisconsin.

 

[stpeteirish]

Toledo might be a good time to try Spindler. And these OL rankings are all over the map.

 

[Dale]

Just searched Jermaine Johnson on Twitter and he had 2 run plays blown up versus Lugg. 1 of the 2 sacks was when Fisher and Correll double teamed him and Coan stepped up and to the right and it opened a gap. Those are the 3 main highlights of his TFLs I’ve seen. Carmody has to approach this LT fill in as a way to win a job even when Fisher comes back before we consider Rocco

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Just searched Jermaine Johnson on Twitter and he had 2 run plays blown up versus Lugg. 1 of the 2 sacks was when Fisher and Correll double teamed him and Coan stepped up and to the right and it opened a gap. Those are the 3 main highlights of his TFLs I’ve seen. Carmody has to approach this LT fill in as a way to win a job even when Fisher comes back before we consider Rocco

Unfortunately it will be hard to bench a healthy Josh Lugg. Although it might be less hard to move him to LG and sit Correll if he isn't performing.

(I still haven't re-watched the game and have no opinion about the individual OL performances).

 

[Dale]

Unfortunately it will be hard to bench a healthy Josh Lugg. Although it might be less hard to move him to LG and sit Correll if he isn't performing.

(I still haven't re-watched the game and have no opinion about the individual OL performances).

True. I think they’d entertain it that was as well. Moving Lugg inside if they like Carmody.

Some other TFLs I’ve seen that might confuse the “left side” did bad versus “right side” were guy on the right for example gets blown up so Kyren cut inside and the unblocked by design guy on the left makes the TFL. Critiquing OL play definitely a watch and rewatch and rewatch again job to be accurate

 

[IRISHMAN]

BK said they maybe rotating interior OL in during purdue game, I wonder if this means rocco spindler will see game action.

 

[BoredIrish]

#FreeRocco

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

BK said they maybe rotating interior OL in during purdue game, I wonder if this means rocco spindler will see game action.

Yeah, that's what a lot of the beat writers are assuming, too. Hopefully he can move some bodies and open up some lanes for Kyren and Tyree.

 

[IRISHMAN]

I really hope spindler is as good as they say cause if he is it could completely change the OL.

LT - Jarret Patterson
LG - Rocco Spindler
C - Zeke Correll
RG - Cain Madden
RT - Josh Lugg

 

[Dale]

I really hope spindler is as good as they say cause if he is it could completely change the OL.

LT - Jarret Patterson
LG - Rocco Spindler
C - Zeke Correll
RG - Cain Madden
RT - Josh Lugg

Carmody has shown me more than Correll, Lugg or Madden. Reality I don’t think anyones job should be safe besides Patterson

 

[Dale]

Lugg and Madden have the shortest leashes in my mind. Madden if he ain’t it, he just ain’t it. Move on. Lugg has been given every chance in his career, same thing, if he can’t not get shoved back every run play, gotta move on at some point. Carmody and Correll have futures

 

[IRISHMAN]

Lugg and Madden have the shortest leashes in my mind. Madden if he ain’t it, he just ain’t it. Move on. Lugg has been given every chance in his career, same thing, if he can’t not get shoved back every run play, gotta move on at some point. Carmody and Correll have futures

I wouldn't mind seeing carmody move to RT once he's healthy and perhaps lugg would be better at RG. I just think it comes down to how good rocco spindler is cause if he's the real deal it would open up so many possibilities for the OL imo.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Lugg and Madden have the shortest leashes in my mind. Madden if he ain’t it, he just ain’t it. Move on. Lugg has been given every chance in his career, same thing, if he can’t not get shoved back every run play, gotta move on at some point. Carmody and Correll have futures

IDK, man. Bringing Madden in as a Second Team AA and then intentionally torpedoing his shot at the NFL is a pretty bad look.

 

[Dale]

IDK, man. Bringing Madden in as a Second Team AA and then intentionally torpedoing his shot at the NFL is a pretty bad look.

If he had a good NFL shot, he’d be in the NFL already

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

IDK, man. Bringing Madden in as a Second Team AA and then intentionally torpedoing his shot at the NFL is a pretty bad look.

He's making that look, for himself, already on the field...

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

He's making that look, for himself, already on the field...

I'm aware of that but benching the guy two games into the year after selling him on what you can do for his career is not going to help ND's cause with OL transfers and recruits going forward.

 

[IRISHMAN]

I'm aware of that but benching the guy two games into the year after selling him on what you can do for his career is not going to help ND's cause with OL transfers and recruits going forward.

for me it's about getting the five best OL on the field at the same time. after just two games NDs OL has looked bad and you need to fix it anyway you can.

 

[Dale]

I'm aware of that but benching the guy two games into the year after selling him on what you can do for his career is not going to help ND's cause with OL transfers and recruits going forward.

I wouldn’t advocate for benching him before this week just the leash is growing short. Mich St transfer QB is backup, Auburn transfer CB is not in 2 deep, NW transfer DE is backup. There are many examples that’s just off the top. Nobody is handing things to transfers

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

I wouldn’t advocate for benching him before this week just the leash is growing short. Mich St transfer QB is backup, Auburn transfer CB is not in 2 deep, NW transfer DE is backup. There are many examples that’s just off the top. Nobody is handing things to transfers

Jordan Johnson is still not playing too

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

I wouldn’t advocate for benching him before this week just the leash is growing short. Mich St transfer QB is backup, Auburn transfer CB is not in 2 deep, NW transfer DE is backup. There are many examples that’s just off the top. Nobody is handing things to transfers

1) I think this case is different because Notre Dame can reasonably viewed by outsiders as ruining an AA lineman.
2) Given the level of performance we are getting from the other guard position, I don't really see how benching Madden is going to lead to significant improvement.

 

[NDIrish88]

Spindler brings nastiness that would help in the run game immensely.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Spindler brings nastiness that would help in the run game immensely.

He hasn't played yet though. Yes, he was nasty in HS. But so were these other kids...Zeke was super physical in particular.
I agree that if he's "about" the same as Cain, I'd rather develop the young talent and invest in him. But maybe it's even less good than our current situation.

Regardless, chemistry is one of the biggest issues here. So, any change is going to hurt.

 

[Crazy Balki]

I don't think you outright pull anybody, but you definitely need to start giving Spindler and potentially another guy some looks at guard.

Madden and Correll have not shown that they can reliably hold their positions on their own.

With Lugg, it's unfortunate, but I think he's nowhere near the same player due to his back problems. They tried to sell that he had trimmed down to accommodate it, but I had a hard time buying that explanation. In reality, he just seems to no longer be able to carry the weight, which breeds a ton of concerns about how much strength was lost and this is a guy who needs to play big. Him being a 6'7 325 pound big hoss was part of what made him a solid player. Without that size and strength, he doesn't have the mobility to compensate.

Sadly, doesn't seem like you have many options. You can try Alt, but who knows if he's anywhere close to ready, despite hearing reports that he's much further along than anticipated. Maybe plug Carmody in there when he's healthy if Baker continues to flash.

 

[Irish#1]

I wouldn't mind giving Spindler a shot, but can he hold up for the entire season? He'll be going against guys that are 2-3 years older and stronger and there's a good chance he drops some weight if he plays a lot which increases the risk of injury.

 

[Luckylucci]

I don't think you outright pull anybody, but you definitely need to start giving Spindler and potentially another guy some looks at guard.

Madden and Correll have not shown that they can reliably hold their positions on their own.

With Lugg, it's unfortunate, but I think he's nowhere near the same player due to his back problems. They tried to sell that he had trimmed down to accommodate it, but I had a hard time buying that explanation. In reality, he just seems to no longer be able to carry the weight, which breeds a ton of concerns about how much strength was lost and this is a guy who needs to play big. Him being a 6'7 325 pound big hoss was part of what made him a solid player. Without that size and strength, he doesn't have the mobility to compensate.

Sadly, doesn't seem like you have many options. You can try Alt, but who knows if he's anywhere close to ready, despite hearing reports that he's much further along than anticipated. Maybe plug Carmody in there when he's healthy if Baker continues to flash.

I would agree that it doesn't seem like there are a lot of options to make us better, right now. And, I can only speak for myself when I say, that's part of the discontent with the situation.

If the younger guys were playing but playing poorly. There is at least the positive of them developing for the future.

As far as next year is concerned, we have Correll playing out of position. And, we have Lugg and Madden (underperforming) while taking valuable snaps away from younger guys while they have no eligibility left. The situation is worse because of how incompetently the coaches read the room for right now and/or are preparing it for the future.

Every time our OL goes up against our DL in Spring or Fall Camp was a valuable opportunity to get our LG, RG, and RT's ready for now and/or for the future.

Side note, I honestly do not understand how they could watch this OL in practice and have not seen this coming. It seems rather insane to think that all of these guys are playing so well in practice yet are this bad in games.

 

[Crazy Balki]

I would agree that it doesn't seem like there are a lot of options to make us better, right now. And, I can only speak for myself when I say, that's part of the discontent with the situation.

If the younger guys were playing but playing poorly. There is at least the positive of them developing for the future.

As far as next year is concerned, we have Correll playing out of position. And, we have Lugg and Madden (underperforming) while taking valuable snaps away from younger guys while they have no eligibility left. The situation is worse because of how incompetently the coaches read the room for right now and/or are preparing it for the future.

Every time our OL goes up against our DL in Spring or Fall Camp was a valuable opportunity to get our LG, RG, and RT's ready for now and/or for the future.

Side note, I honestly do not understand how they could watch this OL in practice and have not seen this coming. It seems rather insane to think that all of these guys are playing so well in practice yet are this bad in games.

Well, in regards to spring, you have to consider that Patterson missed spring. Which meant that Correll had to start at center.

Madden hadn't arrived yet.

And Lugg missed a chunk of camp due to his injuries.

That's 4 out of the 5 starters in fall camp that missed a lot of or all of spring or were playing "out of position" (I put them in air quotes because Correll's natural position is center).

I think this was simply an attempt to get the 5 currently best players on the field. Problem is that 1 of them in a versatile linemen who they refuse to move away from center (Patterson) and another is a guy who has 1 position and is being moved away from it (Correll). Then you've lost another to injury, another is clearly hobbled by injuries and another just arrived on the team and is athletically limited.

The other problem is that the 2018 class, which is where all the reliable senior leadership should be, is non-existent, as the only remaining player is Dirksen and he's nothing more than a depth body.

 

[Luckylucci]

Well, in regards to spring, you have to consider that Patterson missed spring. Which meant that Correll had to start at center.

Madden hadn't arrived yet.

And Lugg missed a chunk of camp due to his injuries.

That's 4 out of the 5 starters in fall camp that missed a lot of or all of spring or were playing "out of position" (I put them in air quotes because Correll's natural position is center).

I think this was simply an attempt to get the 5 currently best players on the field. Problem is that 1 of them in a versatile linemen who they refuse to move away from center (Patterson) and another is a guy who has 1 position and is being moved away from it (Correll). Then you've lost another to injury, another is clearly hobbled by injuries and another just arrived on the team and is athletically limited.

The other problem is that the 2018 class, which is where all the reliable senior leadership should be, is non-existent, as the only remaining player is Dirksen and he's nothing more than a depth body.

First of all, you're really proving my broader point here. The lack of continuity is part of the problem and they created that with everything you noted.

No, he didn't. If they thought he was going to end up at LG then he should've played LG. Kristofic or anyone else could rep at C. It's really my whole point. They just got very cavalier with where guys were going to eventually end up, expecting it to work itself out. And here we are. The fact that we didn't have continuity from last year to this year was not their fault. The fact that we didn't have continuity from Spring to Fall, is most definitely their fault.

Yes, I'm aware Madden wasn't at Spring practice. It just further proves the point. Again, the point isn't about one isolated situation but the confluence of many that they just expected to work out. Not enough continuity at their respective positions.

Yes, again, that's the point. They took for granted that Lugg needed those snaps. He also spent a decent amount of time at RG. Which is why I said, back then, that it doesn't make a lot of sense for him to be at RG if he was ultimately going to play RT. Because, as of now, it looks like he needed that work at RT as much as any player needed reps at said position. He's arguably the worst player of the expected starters.

Yes, again, that's the point. This notion that they are always searching for the best 5 is partially why we are here. These guys clearly need reps and continuity. I would bet that if Correll played LG for the rest of the season, he'll be better by the end of it, than he is now. Same goes for Lugg at RT, Madden at RG, etc. Guys get better with reps.

 

[Irish#1]

First of all, you're really proving my broader point here. The lack of continuity is part of the problem and they created that with everything you noted.

No, he didn't. If they thought he was going to end up at LG then he should've played LG. Kristofic or anyone else could rep at C. It's really my whole point. They just got very cavalier with where guys were going to eventually end up, expecting it to work itself out. And here we are. The fact that we didn't have continuity from last year to this year was not their fault. The fact that we didn't have continuity from Spring to Fall, is most definitely their fault.

Yes, I'm aware Madden wasn't at Spring practice. It just further proves the point. Again, the point isn't about one isolated situation but the confluence of many that they just expected to work out. Not enough continuity at their respective positions.

Yes, again, that's the point. They took for granted that Lugg needed those snaps. He also spent a decent amount of time at RG. Which is why I said, back then, that it doesn't make a lot of sense for him to be at RG if he was ultimately going to play RT. Because, as of now, it looks like he needed that work at RT as much as any player needed reps at said position. He's arguably the worst player of the expected starters.

Yes, again, that's the point. This notion that they are always searching for the best 5 is partially why we are here. These guys clearly need reps and continuity. I would bet that if Correll played LG for the rest of the season, he'll be better by the end of it, than he is now. Same goes for Lugg at RT, Madden at RG, etc. Guys get better with reps.

I have some strong reservations about that statement. I agree with a lot of what you’ve been saying, but to say the staff was cavalier?

 

[ulukinatme]

I wouldn't mind giving Spindler a shot, but can he hold up for the entire season? He'll be going against guys that are 2-3 years older and stronger and there's a good chance he drops some weight if he plays a lot which increases the risk of injury.

There's definitely some concern there. Big Fish is a rare breed where a true freshman was ready to play with the big boys right away. It's a hard transition to the college game for OL, and not just because most aren't up to speed in strength and size yet. However, if our options are limited and the OL isn't getting it done it might be a good thing to get him the reps for the future. I guess it just depends on how prepared he is.

 

[Irish#1]

There's definitely some concern there. Big Fish is a rare breed where a true freshman was ready to play with the big boys right away. It's a hard transition to the college game for OL, and not just because most aren't up to speed in strength and size yet. However, if our options are limited and the OL isn't getting it done it might be a good thing to get him the reps for the future. I guess it just depends on how prepared he is.

Totally agree. Fisher is bigger and plays outside, so he isn't going to be subjected to the same banging a guard or center will get fighting in close quarters. If the line doesn't show improvement, I'm all for getting him some reps.