'23 CO QB Brayden Dorman (Arizona Verbal)

[Luckylucci]

Singer reporting that he’s visiting today but will still throw on the 8th. He also said he’d be surprised if he he gets offered.

 

[BobbyMac]

Still expected to stick around and they're at camp I believe.

Expected to stay in SB from today thru the 8th? Or maybe go hit some nearby's Sunday/Monday like MSU, NW, Purdue, etc?

 

[BobbyMac]

Singer reporting that he’s visiting today but will still throw on the 8th. He also said he’d be surprised if he he gets offered.

If he gets offered? Did he mean immediately or ever?

 

[Luckylucci]

I believe he’s visiting MSU and then coming back.

He made it seemed like for now as Manning and Moore are expected to visit campus this summer. Not a fan of that strategy but whatever.

 

[BobbyMac]

I believe he’s visiting MSU and then coming back.

He made it seemed like for now as Manning and Moore are expected to visit campus this summer. Not a fan of that strategy but whatever.

OK. Still like my CB then.

 

[BobbyMac]

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/brayden_dorman/status/1401282466988576769[/TWEET]

 

[Luckylucci]

https://irishsportsdaily.com/s/1512...ayden-dorman-loves-first-look-at-notre-dame/1

 

[Luckylucci]

Freebie from Sinclair.

https://247sports.com/college/notre-...ons-166167764/

 

[Dale]

Back again today to throw for Tommy Bump

 

[Luckylucci]

Premium from ISD for those that have the sub. One interesting nugget was Freeman's opinion that the other 3 '23 QB offers are not overly realistic options.

Quick note on 2023 QB Brayden Dorman | Irish Sports Daily

 

[Luckylucci]

VIP interview from Loy. For those that have the sub, a very good read. I like the talent before but his personality is really growing on me, from what I've read.

Notre Dame Business Trip Tuesday for Four-Star QB Brayden Dorman (247sports.com)

 

[Dale]

I like that there 3 not just Dorman. Competition

 

[Luckylucci]

I like that there 3 not just Dorman. Competition

Very much so.

 

[Luckylucci]

Premium Post from Freeman.

https://irishsportsdaily.com/forums/1/topics/59803

No offer and likely none until end of month once Rees has evaluated everyone expected on campus.

 

[Dale]

That means more guys than reported so far likely visit

or it’s BS lol

 

[Ndaccountant]

Premium Post from Freeman.

https://irishsportsdaily.com/forums/1/topics/59803

No offer and likely none until end of month once Rees has evaluated everyone expected on campus.

Not sure I like the sound of that. If people are already conceding the existing offers are not all that realistic, I don't understand the approach of waiting another 3 weeks and risk turning kids like Dorman off. Either they are good enough or they aren't. I know you were summarizing, but the summary feels like more of "we choose you" versus "they choose us". Sure, both sides need to woo the other at some point, but this feels different than how they are handling 2024 recruiting. I am probably off on this though.

 

[Dale]

ND has 6 days they are designating camp days which means 5 more days you theoretically hear of QBs throwing for Tommy. If you offer Dorman/Hudson now, you’d better be prepared to accept a commitment and give up on the current /future offers. You could of course offer and not accept the commitment but which is a bigger turn off? We’ll evaluate in 3 weeks or here’s an offer but it’s not committable till we say so.

I think it’s fair to disagree with Tommy’s strategy but my takeaway, as I’ve alluded to, is he at least has a set plan which clears one hurdle of his criticism. Now the question becomes who all does get to campus in the next 3 weeks?

 

[Ndaccountant]

ND has 6 days they are designating camp days which means 5 more days you theoretically hear of QBs throwing for Tommy. If you offer Dorman/Hudson now, you’d better be prepared to accept a commitment and give up on the current /future offers. You could of course offer and not accept the commitment but which is a bigger turn off? We’ll evaluate in 3 weeks or here’s an offer but it’s not committable till we say so.

I think it’s fair to disagree with Tommy’s strategy but my takeaway, as I’ve alluded to, is he at least has a set plan which clears one hurdle of his criticism. Now the question becomes who all does get to campus in the next 3 weeks?

Sure, the grass could always be greener. I just think this is where your evaluation skills should be relied on. If one of them has "it", does it matter what the others could potentially be? I liken it to dating. You can always find another partner that may be more intriguing, or better looking or anything of the like. But if you find a partner that you know works for you, you best not play the "what if" game. Bird in the hand and all that. I am probably jaded by the results of the past year. But at this point, ND QB spot and recruiting is not the apex of CFB like it is at Bama, OSU, Clemson, etc. I am still jilted over the 12 months of QB recruiting, so that is probably skewing things. I just think if the kid's good enough, you offer. If he isn't, then he really never should get an offer no matter what the other visits show you.

 

[Dale]

Sure, the grass could always be greener. I just think this is where your evaluation skills should be relied on. If one of them has "it", does it matter what the others could potentially be? I liken it to dating. You can always find another partner that may be more intriguing, or better looking or anything of the like. But if you find a partner that you know works for you, you best not play the "what if" game. Bird in the hand and all that. I am probably jaded by the results of the past year. But at this point, ND QB spot and recruiting is not the apex of CFB like it is at Bama, OSU, Clemson, etc. I am still jilted over the 12 months of QB recruiting, so that is probably skewing things. I just think if the kid's good enough, you offer. If he isn't, then he really never should get an offer no matter what the other visits show you.

The grass is always greener, “what if” premise centers on there will always be more QBs you could offer, but in reality that isn’t true. The pool of possible QB offers is limited so as long as MORE continue to get to campus, you’ve basically established a prospect pool with evals and move from there. For example, ND has already offered or seen in person 7 of 247s Top 20 QBs. Again my approval per se of Tommy’s process here is that we continue to see more guys evaluated but the thought that they could theoretically always continue I somewhat disagree with.

 

[Luckylucci]

Not surprised. More arbitrary deadlines or restrictions for offers. We can’t offer that guy until this guy decides. We can’t offer these guys until we view them in-person but that doesn’t matter for those two. We can’t offer these 3 because we want to see a couple more.

I mean, he offered Angeli without an in-person viewing and he hadn’t even been a full time HS starting QB at the time. And now we have this process for Simpson, Allar, Jones, Dorman, and Hudson. Every single one with more experience and a better 247 rating than Angeli at the time of his offer.

If they’re good enough, offer. If not, move on.

Crus, can we get Bill Rees tagged in here?

 

[Dale]

Not surprised. More arbitrary deadlines or restrictions for offers. We can’t offer that guy until this guy decides. We can’t offer these guys until we view them in-person but that doesn’t matter for those two. We can’t offer these 3 because we want to see a couple more.

I mean, he offered Angeli without an in-person viewing and he hadn’t even been a full time HS starting QB at the time. And now we have this process for Simpson, Allar, Jones, Dorman, and Hudson. Every single one with more experience and a better 247 rating than Angeli at the time of his offer.

If they’re good enough, offer. If not, move on.

Crus, can we get Bill Rees tagged in here?

“For FBS programs, there will be a quiet period allowing camps and on-campus visits from June 1 through June 27, a dead period from June 28 through July 24 and a return to a quiet period July 25 through July 31.”

Can you disagree with evaluating guys throughout June and offering after that? Sure go ahead. Is it arbitrary? 100% not, it’s using the allotted time to evaluate and then deciding when that time is over. Dumb? Maybe. Random? No.

 

[Irish#1]

Hey, we really like you, your skill set and how you performed during camp. We think you could help us. However, we've got some other guys we want to see before we decide if you're really our best option. If they aren't we'll give you an offer in a few weeks. You cool with that?

 

[Dale]

Hey, we really like you, your skill set and how you performed during camp. We think you could help us. However, we've got some other guys we want to see before we decide if you're really our best option. If they aren't we'll give you an offer in a few weeks. You cool with that?

“Coach Rees was super truthful and down to earth. He's just a super good guy. He's straight to how it is and that's exactly what I'm looking for in a coach."

Y’all sell some of these guys short sometimes.

That quote was not a direct response to the question of an offer but if that conversation had already happened, well...

Also, it’s literally a camp to earn an offer. The frame of mind is directly that I do not have an offer but could or could not end up earning one, this overall board attitude that a kid who’s best offer is Colorado and Iowa State is gonna be ticked not leaving Notre Dame with an offer is kind of just really silly IMO. He already left Wisconsin without one too.

 

[Ndaccountant]

“Coach Rees was super truthful and down to earth. He's just a super good guy. He's straight to how it is and that's exactly what I'm looking for in a coach."

Y’all sell some of these guys short sometimes.

That quote was not a direct response to the question of an offer but if that conversation had already happened, well...

Also, it’s literally a camp to earn an offer. The frame of mind is directly that I do not have an offer but could or could not end up earning one, this overall board attitude that a kid who’s best offer is Colorado and Iowa State is gonna be ticked not leaving Notre Dame with an offer is kind of just really silly IMO. He already left Wisconsin without one too.

Can't speak for the others but for me, this isn't about Dorman so much as the way they are handling it. The kid isn't going to be any different in three weeks. So if he wasn't good enough to get an offer yesterday, he won't be in three weeks. But waiting to see how others look versus him gives the impression that the staff doesn't know what they are looking for.

Now, for all we know, Tommy could have told the kid he isn't getting anything any time soon and the story that's out there now is about saving face. I don't know either way. But I will say I will be pretty disappointed if Dorman is offered in three weeks given that nothing about him will change between then and now.

 

[Irish#1]

“Coach Rees was super truthful and down to earth. He's just a super good guy. He's straight to how it is and that's exactly what I'm looking for in a coach."

Y’all sell some of these guys short sometimes.

That quote was not a direct response to the question of an offer but if that conversation had already happened, well...

Also, it’s literally a camp to earn an offer. The frame of mind is directly that I do not have an offer but could or could not end up earning one, this overall board attitude that a kid who’s best offer is Colorado and Iowa State is gonna be ticked not leaving Notre Dame with an offer is kind of just really silly IMO. He already left Wisconsin without one too.

I rarely criticize the staff and how they recruit. I've said many times that if we really knew what was going on behind the scenes everyone on here would have an epiphany and it would all make sense. Given the recent history of recruiting QB's, this tells me Rees is looking for a bigger fish. Also increases the risk of losing Dorman to someone else.

 

[BobbyMac]

There was no danger in offering Dorman. He wouldn't have committed immediately. He's gonna do the tour and the LSU stop is big. Seems part of the family's from LA and it's a personal fav of his too. Coach O will get his shot. I think that spot is reserved for Eli Holstein and Dorman will be available but no danger in offering.

Then again, maybe Tommy didn't love what he saw?

Anyways, when's Just Sayin get to campus...???

 

[NDdomer2]

Can't speak for the others but for me, this isn't about Dorman so much as the way they are handling it. The kid isn't going to be any different in three weeks. So if he wasn't good enough to get an offer yesterday, he won't be in three weeks. But waiting to see how others look versus him gives the impression that the staff doesn't know what they are looking for.

Now, for all we know, Tommy could have told the kid he isn't getting anything any time soon and the story that's out there now is about saving face. I don't know either way. But I will say I will be pretty disappointed if Dorman is offered in three weeks given that nothing about him will change between then and now.

Nothing may change with Dorman, but something may change with their opinion of other options. I don't know the list of everyone coming the rest of the month, but maybe Tommy already has a early favorite based on film study that's yet to throw and he just wants that in person validation. What happens if he's told that kid already "hey I am not going to offer any other QBs until I see you throw and if I like what I see I am only going to offer you." Then a week before he shows up were tossing offers out like candy to every kid who throws in person.

Again we can all disagree with Tommy's procedural operation, but it seems like he isnt one to offer too many individuals at once and has a plan in place getting all these kids to come throw in person.

I certainly don't know what the right answer is and am not going to pretend to. But offering a kid the day he throws vs 3 weeks later if we were up front about why is a nothing burger for me.

 

[Luckylucci]

Can't speak for the others but for me, this isn't about Dorman so much as the way they are handling it. The kid isn't going to be any different in three weeks. So if he wasn't good enough to get an offer yesterday, he won't be in three weeks. But waiting to see how others look versus him gives the impression that the staff doesn't know what they are looking for.

Now, for all we know, Tommy could have told the kid he isn't getting anything any time soon and the story that's out there now is about saving face. I don't know either way. But I will say I will be pretty disappointed if Dorman is offered in three weeks given that nothing about him will change between then and now.

Hopefully it doesn't matter but...

The end of June means nothing in the grand scheme of things. Rees is tasked with finding the next starting QB at ND between now and when they sign. But, as we know from history, that process needs to start, ASAP. It might be relevant to Rees but it's not relevant to the greater task that all coaches and programs are going after which is important because the pool of prospects they all pick from is finite. And that's the important part. It's why they call it the QB dominoes. Rees is creating these arbitrary restrictions on his process. The game isn't waiting for Rees to get to these deadlines. Other coaches are not waiting. Prospects are not waiting. They aren't arbitrary to Rees but they are to the people that he competes against and for.

This cycle, it's get all QB's to campus in June and the best one/s get an offer at the end but not for 3 of them. Well, 1 of them was supposed to but then he went into decision mode and got the offer anyways. That right there, tells us this is random as shit. Last cycle it was to throw in-person at some point but not for 2 of them. With one guy, it was he didn't pass his exams or virtual meetings. He just ended up commiting to Clemson, lol.

So, what if Rees doesn't get better guys on campus? Does that mean he'll offer Dorman or Hudson? Is that really what we want? A QB coach/OC offering just the best guy he could get on campus to throw over the course of 1 month? Or, do we want him offering the best available, regardless if they made the trip to South Bend? Or, what if he does get one on campus in a week from now, does he offer them before the end of June or make them wait to see what happens? The only thing that matters is if these guys are good enough or not. Everything else is meaningless and random.

The bad news, this is so insanely similar to the 2022 cycle with throwing in-person even though Angeli and Wimsatt didn't have too. The good news is, at least this won't linger on for 6 months like last time.

And let me say that, I really do not care if it's Dorman, Hudson, or Player X but the importance should be on the performance. Not some random date that Rees set. Losing out on offering guys on the spot after a big performance is the stuff that causes other schools like PSU to get the QB that was on your campus in 2019. It should not happen but it does with Rees and his process. As soon as Allar was deemed better than Angeli and Wimsatt, he should've been offered but he wasn't. As soon as Dorman, Hudson, etc are deemed good enough just offer them.

On the conditional offer conversation. Angeli had a conditional offer the whole time. Do you guys really think it was a coincidence that Angeli just happened to commit after we waited out a Simpson and Allar decision and then as soon as those were made, he committed? C'mon guys. Conditional have been the name of the game for awhile now.

 

[Dale]

Hopefully it doesn't matter but...

The end of June means nothing in the grand scheme of things. Rees is tasked with finding the next starting QB at ND between now and when they sign. But, as we know from history, that process needs to start, ASAP. It might be relevant to Rees but it's not relevant to the greater task that all coaches and programs are going after which is important because the pool of prospects they all pick from is finite. And that's the important part. It's why they call it the QB dominoes. Rees is creating these arbitrary restrictions on his process. The game isn't waiting for Rees to get to these deadlines. Other coaches are not waiting. Prospects are not waiting. They aren't arbitrary to Rees but they are to the people that he competes against and for.

This cycle, it's get all QB's to campus in June and the best one/s get an offer at the end but not for 3 of them. Well, 1 of them was supposed to but then he went into decision mode and got the offer anyways. That right there, tells us this is random as shit. Last cycle it was to throw in-person at some point but not for 2 of them. With one guy, it was he didn't pass his exams or virtual meetings. He just ended up commiting to Clemson, lol.

So, what if Rees doesn't get better guys on campus? Does that mean he'll offer Dorman or Hudson? Is that really what we want? A QB coach/OC offering just the best guy he could get on campus to throw over the course of 1 month? Or, do we want him offering the best available, regardless if they made the trip to South Bend? Or, what if he does get one on campus in a week from now, does he offer them before the end of June or make them wait to see what happens? The only thing that matters is if these guys are good enough or not. Everything else is meaningless and random.

The bad news, this is so insanely similar to the 2022 cycle with throwing in-person even though Angeli and Wimsatt didn't have too. The good news is, at least this won't linger on for 6 months like last time.

And let me say that, I really do not care if it's Dorman, Hudson, or Player X but the importance should be on the performance. Not some random date that Rees set. Losing out on offering guys on the spot after a big performance is the stuff that causes other schools like PSU to get the QB that was on your campus in 2019. It should not happen but it does with Rees and his process. As soon as Allar was deemed better than Angeli and Wimsatt, he should've been offered but he wasn't. As soon as Dorman, Hudson, etc are deemed good enough just offer them.

On the conditional offer conversation. Angeli had a conditional offer the whole time. Do you guys really think it was a coincidence that Angeli just happened to commit after we waited out a Simpson and Allar decision and then as soon as those were made, he committed? C'mon guys. Conditional have been the name of the game for awhile now.

So much twisting of reports to a narrative

 

[Luckylucci]

What report did I twist?