4 Days Without Irish Envy

irishunclebill

Well-known member
Messages
1,634
Reaction score
80
How about 4 Days Without Irish Envy.

I'm off to Notre Dame for my daughter's graduation. I hope you South Bend guys are going to make the weather nice out there. No more damage to the Basilica. I'll say hello to Jonathan Baldwin if I see him. See if you guys can't get a few more commits this weekend.
 

johnnd05

Johnny T. works for me
Messages
4,522
Reaction score
275
Yep, enjoy yourself. Tell the campus I love it and miss it.
 

irishunclebill

Well-known member
Messages
1,634
Reaction score
80
Well, my 4 days without Irish Envy are over. The graduation weekend was magnificent, and the actual graduation ceremony on Sunday was classic Notre Dame, full of the tradition and splendor that I have come to expect from the University. The campus as always was beautiful, and completely recovered from last week's almost tornado. I have to say that even after all of the times that I have been on the ND campus, it is still breathtaking when you are walking from the Book Store to the Grotto, and as you pass the South Dining Hall, to then come upon the South Quad in all its' splendor on a beautiful spring day. No other campus in the country that I have seen can come close to matching ND's South Quad, most can't match the North Quad either. It was a great weekend as always and there always seems to be a feeling of spiritual uplifting after spending any time on that magical campus.

However, after catching up on some of the posts of the last 4 days, some of that spiritual uplifting is fading. I'm not sure what happened on Irish Envy during those 4 days, but I have to say after reading some of the posts of especially the last 2 days, I am almost afraid to post anything about a recruit. I am not sure who posted what to start all of this, because those posts were apparently deleted, but it seems to me that if you go too far overboard on this new theme, then people will shy away from saying anything at all for fear of being crucified by the mods and other people in the forum. I would like to remind everyone that this is a message board, and people should be allowed to express their opinions, as long as it is not personal bashing of a recruit.

For example, it is my opinion that Sam McGuffie is a cocky, arrogant, and overrated player, and my personal feeling is that I would prefer he not choose Notre Dame as his college of choice. If he chooses Notre Dame, will I be angry or upset? Of course not, because I fully realize that Charlie Weis is the only true expert on what is good for his team, his opinion is the only one that really counts, and if he believes that Sam McGuffie is good enough to be a part of Notre Dame football, then I would wholeheartedly concur. Until and if that happens, my opinion will remain the same, and my opinion is shared by quite a lot of people because Sam is very upfront about his confidence in his abilities. My personal opinion is that he is actually over confident and that his tone creates the cocky and arrogant image. Is that bashing Sam McGuffie, I don't think so, it is merely saying what is quite evident based on what Sam has said. Is saying he is overrated bashing him? Again, I don't think so because that is only my opinion. It would be a different story if I had ever said that McGuffie was great, and only started saying he was overrated because he has no interest in ND. Posters on this board should be allowed to express their opinions about a player’s ability as long as they do not all of a sudden start downgrading their opinion of his ability merely because the player is not interested in Notre Dame.

Another example is Brendan Beal, who apparently seems to be one of the major reasons for this backlash, although I am not really sure why. I mentioned last week that I thought it was disingenuous of Beal to say that academics was the most important factor in his selection of schools, and then to say that USC, Florida, and OSU were his top choices. Is that bashing Beal? Again, I don't think so, because that statement is as factual as it could possibly be, and it does not relate only to ND, it also relates to other schools that have recruited him such as BC and Virginia. Is Brendan Beal wrong if he does not choose Notre Dame? Absolutely not, it is his decision to make, and I am sure that whatever choice he makes he will be doing so based on what he and his family believes is best for his future, and I agree that anyone who criticizes him for choosing another school, or all of a sudden tries to say that he was not good anyway is absolutely off base. Nonetheless, if what is being proposed is that it is now improper to express opinions based on established facts, then I am afraid you will see fewer and fewer opinions posted. If what I just repeated above from previous posts about McGuffie and Beal is unacceptable to Jason and Katzenboyer, then I also will be hesitant to post here. Personally, I see nothing wrong with a little venting as long as it does not resort to the level of personal bashing, or to the level of the tiresome USC mantra of "if he didn't pick USC, then he wasn’t any good anyway."

One final note, and then I will get off my soapbox, and again this is my opinion only. If we really think that for example, Sam McGuffie or Brendan Beal, will not go to Notre Dame based on one person's post or opinion about them, then we are giving ourselves way too much credit here. I follow recruiting because I find it to be an interesting puzzle that is fascinating to see where the pieces end up being placed. I also follow it only as it relates to the University of Notre Dame because I have a great fondness for the University, and I am eager for its' success. However, I would not even dream that anything I have to report or opine about would ever have a serious impact on whether a recruit decides to select or reject Notre Dame.

Let's not take ourselves too seriously here, because if we do, any enjoyment that derives from participation in this forum will quickly dissipate.
 
H

HereComeTheIrish

Guest
Well, my 4 days without Irish Envy are over. The graduation weekend was magnificent, and the actual graduation ceremony on Sunday was classic Notre Dame, full of the tradition and splendor that I have come to expect from the University. The campus as always was beautiful, and completely recovered from last week's almost tornado. I have to say that even after all of the times that I have been on the ND campus, it is still breathtaking when you are walking from the Book Store to the Grotto, and as you pass the South Dining Hall, to then come upon the South Quad in all its' splendor on a beautiful spring day. No other campus in the country that I have seen can come close to matching ND's South Quad, most can't match the North Quad either. It was a great weekend as always and there always seems to be a feeling of spiritual uplifting after spending any time on that magical campus.

However, after catching up on some of the posts of the last 4 days, some of that spiritual uplifting is fading. I'm not sure what happened on Irish Envy during those 4 days, but I have to say after reading some of the posts of especially the last 2 days, I am almost afraid to post anything about a recruit. I am not sure who posted what to start all of this, because those posts were apparently deleted, but it seems to me that if you go too far overboard on this new theme, then people will shy away from saying anything at all for fear of being crucified by the mods and other people in the forum. I would like to remind everyone that this is a message board, and people should be allowed to express their opinions, as long as it is not personal bashing of a recruit.

For example, it is my opinion that Sam McGuffie is a cocky, arrogant, and overrated player, and my personal feeling is that I would prefer he not choose Notre Dame as his college of choice. If he chooses Notre Dame, will I be angry or upset? Of course not, because I fully realize that Charlie Weis is the only true expert on what is good for his team, his opinion is the only one that really counts, and if he believes that Sam McGuffie is good enough to be a part of Notre Dame football, then I would wholeheartedly concur. Until and if that happens, my opinion will remain the same, and my opinion is shared by quite a lot of people because Sam is very upfront about his confidence in his abilities. My personal opinion is that he is actually over confident and that his tone creates the cocky and arrogant image. Is that bashing Sam McGuffie, I don't think so, it is merely saying what is quite evident based on what Sam has said. Is saying he is overrated bashing him? Again, I don't think so because that is only my opinion. It would be a different story if I had ever said that McGuffie was great, and only started saying he was overrated because he has no interest in ND. Posters on this board should be allowed to express their opinions about a player’s ability as long as they do not all of a sudden start downgrading their opinion of his ability merely because the player is not interested in Notre Dame.

Another example is Brendan Beal, who apparently seems to be one of the major reasons for this backlash, although I am not really sure why. I mentioned last week that I thought it was disingenuous of Beal to say that academics was the most important factor in his selection of schools, and then to say that USC, Florida, and OSU were his top choices. Is that bashing Beal? Again, I don't think so, because that statement is as factual as it could possibly be, and it does not relate only to ND, it also relates to other schools that have recruited him such as BC and Virginia. Is Brendan Beal wrong if he does not choose Notre Dame? Absolutely not, it is his decision to make, and I am sure that whatever choice he makes he will be doing so based on what he and his family believes is best for his future, and I agree that anyone who criticizes him for choosing another school, or all of a sudden tries to say that he was not good anyway is absolutely off base. Nonetheless, if what is being proposed is that it is now improper to express opinions based on established facts, then I am afraid you will see fewer and fewer opinions posted. If what I just repeated above from previous posts about McGuffie and Beal is unacceptable to Jason and Katzenboyer, then I also will be hesitant to post here. Personally, I see nothing wrong with a little venting as long as it does not resort to the level of personal bashing, or to the level of the tiresome USC mantra of "if he didn't pick USC, then he wasn’t any good anyway."

One final note, and then I will get off my soapbox, and again this is my opinion only. If we really think that for example, Sam McGuffie or Brendan Beal, will not go to Notre Dame based on one person's post or opinion about them, then we are giving ourselves way too much credit here. I follow recruiting because I find it to be an interesting puzzle that is fascinating to see where the pieces end up being placed. I also follow it only as it relates to the University of Notre Dame because I have a great fondness for the University, and I am eager for its' success. However, I would not even dream that anything I have to report or opine about would ever have a serious impact on whether a recruit decides to select or reject Notre Dame.

Let's not take ourselves too seriously here, because if we do, any enjoyment that derives from participation in this forum will quickly dissipate.

No worries from me because I am in 110% agreement with everything you are saying. Keep up the good work!
 
S

seniorle

Guest
Welcome back IUB. it's good to hear you had a good stay at ND. That is very high on my places to visit someday.

I don't believe your comments about McGuffie or Beal are off based at all. The reason being is like you said, you have actually evaluated their film, interviews, and statements and from there, made an opinion of them. Not everyone is going to like everybody we are recruiting and some recruits just give off a bad vibe sometimes. I've read some of the interviews that McGuffie has given and they do come off as very arrogant - u're just re-stating what he already said pretty much.

But there is one point that I would like to make though. CW said he makes offers based on character, academics, and athletics. He has obviously already evaluated each of his offers to the point where he was satisfied and felt that recruit would be a good fit for ND. Now do people change or does CW sometimes realize he might have made a mistake about a particular recruit (G Little comes to mind here)? Absolutely it happens but I think in general, we should give CW the benefit on the doubt and realize that he prolly knows a lot more about these kids (both personally and athletically) than all of us do.

So in summary, IUB, I don't believe there is anything wrong w/ the way that you are posting and I hope you keep it up, but everyone should keep in mind that the people we are recruiting have been deemed worth of recruiting by CW and that has a lot of weight.
 

johnnd05

Johnny T. works for me
Messages
4,522
Reaction score
275
IUB -

I don't think that comments of the sort you're talking about are the ones that are taken to be problematic. They're reasoned, well-expressed, and factually supported. The comments that -- I take it -- were getting people up in arms were of two sorts:

1. Those that said really harsh and careless things about recruits.

2. Those that expressed an opinion about a recruit's athletic abilities that was clearly based solely on the fact that that recruit was apparently going elsewhere.

Comments in category (2) are just stupid, but I think the moderators made it clear that they'll leave it to us to police those sorts of remarks ourselves. Comments in category (1) have always been off-limits on IE, so there's no real change here from the old "don't bash recruits" policy -- a policy which never forbade CRITICIZING recruits in sensible ways like the ones in your post above. So I don't think you really have anything to worry about.

Does that seem right to everyone?

P.S. Congrats to your daughter - you should be really proud of her, and of yourself as well for that matter.
 

Irishknight1023

LeBron James of VC
Messages
1,911
Reaction score
81
What a suprise IUB says exactly whats right. I never saw anything written or wrote anything myself this weekend to see all this backlash, I just think it was some people being hyper-sensative.
 

johnnd05

Johnny T. works for me
Messages
4,522
Reaction score
275
What a suprise IUB says exactly whats right. I never saw anything written or wrote anything myself this weekend to see all this backlash, I just think it was some people being hyper-sensative.

Well, try these on for size (from the Beal thread):

He's got this big crush on Cushing, he like wants to get teabagged by him or something

i've wrote off Beal for a while now jamming that academic crap down my throat like every recruit does. I never want to hear how a recruit is VERY interested in academics and because of that puts us in good position. I won't beleive he cares about academics until he commits to us. That being said I've felt this way about Beal for a while now and sadly enough i've felt this way about Filer for a while now too and everytime I say so I get ganged up on. I'd rather he come, but i'll live without him. Sabino sounds like a good thing, but it's just an internet rumor and I haven't seen anything in writing yet.

Seems to me that each of those constitute, or at least border on, the sort of "bashing" that this board has always disallowed, and frankly I can't ever remember IUB posting things like this. So yeah, Irishknight, I think you might do well to be a bit more thoughtful about what you say and how you say it.
 

Irishknight1023

LeBron James of VC
Messages
1,911
Reaction score
81
Yes, everybody gang up on me and let me know how much i'm ruining everything on this site and going out of my way everyday to bash recruits. Obviously i'm not wanted on this site and should focus all of your frustration out on me.
 
S

seniorle

Guest
The past is the past and it doesn't matter who said what to be perfectly honest with you, I just think in the future everyone should keep what has been brought up in mind when posting - I think that the gist of Jason's original thread. Everyone contributes something to the board and I hope no one gets personally attacked cause that doesn't get anyone anywhere either, we all just need to move forward.
 

grantphilly

New member
Messages
895
Reaction score
85
Excuse me while I light my spliff, oh god I got to take a lift, from reality it just can't quit. Thats why I'm sticking with my spliff, so take it easy...skanking You all need to take a lesson from Bob Marleys Easy Skanking and take it easy!! Peace Love and Unity!
 

johnnd05

Johnny T. works for me
Messages
4,522
Reaction score
275
Another example of the sort of thing that was bugging Jason was exchanges like these.

This one came right after IUB posted that we hadn't made Beal's final cut:

I could really care less about Beal at this point, Sabino and Filer are the two I want(heck one would be good). I know a coach from a rival school that coached against Beal and said that he is over hyped. Hes no where near 4.5 speed, he does make a lot of tackles though but it has a lot to do with the play of Roxbury's D-line which is usually the biggest in the league.

Thx for the info Axl, I'm with u, I'd much rather have Filer or Sabino.

i would take sabino in a heart beat he plays against better competion than beal.

And there's this, from Sweat's thread:

He seems good in his video, but it doesnt look like he punishes and closes quite like McDonald i don't want to sound bitter cause im not cause hes a cool guy just i said a while back that i thought McDonald was on another level but i don't understand why McDonald doesn't have the offers.

When watching his film a couple of monthes ago i mentioned that i thought his film was good but not really on the same level as McDonald, he'd be a nice get but if thats his highlight film i saw it didnt really stand out to me even though hes a good player.

And on Filer:

He's well hyped but no one really has seen him play and rivals only shows some not so great clips, im still not sold on him favoring us in any way.

Part of what Jason was mad about, in other words, was the tendency among some of us to do what the SC fans did after Clausen chose us, namely start climbing out of the woodwork with evidence that he just wasn't that good after all. I'm not saying that all - or any - of the above comments amounted to this sort of thing, but they're at least questionable, and they do make us look pretty silly.

I think it's best just to close by quoting this, posted all the way back in March in the Sweat thread:

Also, this is my final and most firm warning. Recruits and their parents are present on board. Comments made in poor taste and based on skeptical sources (read: the fiction writers on certain recruiting sites) will not be tolerated and will result not only to repercussions to your status as a board member, but may have dire consequences on the recruiting efforts of the Notre Dame athletic department, and consequentially on the IrishEnvy community.

If you have made a comment you think you might be angry if you were the parent of a recruit reading this about your own son, please rephrase or remove your post and refrain from repeating these types of posts.

Amen. ("Final warning" my ass, though.)
 

johnnd05

Johnny T. works for me
Messages
4,522
Reaction score
275
Yes, everybody gang up on me and let me know how much i'm ruining everything on this site and going out of my way everyday to bash recruits. Obviously i'm not wanted on this site and should focus all of your frustration out on me.

Dude, CHILL. (We don't want a repeat of an earlier "incident".) I'm not trying to gang up on you, just to clarify Jason's point in response to IUB's worries.

Reps to you, seniorle, for playing peacemaker.
 

Irishknight1023

LeBron James of VC
Messages
1,911
Reaction score
81
johnd i'm fine and i'm defending myself for your posts. It seems you were attacking me and nobody else for 1 comment about teabagging and everything that I thought was funny. There only quotes you were using were not close to bashing in any way shape or form. Simply my observation on somebodies film and I know you're allowed to do that. Fine, show the one Beal comment but to whip out 4 others that aren't close to bashing is unfair and if I posted 4 or 5 different things you said that weren't on target with the problem I'm pretty sure john you wouldn't just sit back and let me do it.
 

johnnd05

Johnny T. works for me
Messages
4,522
Reaction score
275
johnd i'm fine and i'm defending myself for your posts. It seems you were attacking me and nobody else for 1 comment about teabagging and everything that I thought was funny. There only quotes you were using were not close to bashing in any way shape or form. Simply my observation on somebodies film and I know you're allowed to do that. Fine, show the one Beal comment but to whip out 4 others that aren't close to bashing is unfair and if I posted 4 or 5 different things you said that weren't on target with the problem I'm pretty sure john you wouldn't just sit back and let me do it.

Alright, fine, I'm okay you're okay, I withdraw all my comments. The last thing I need is a message board war. :starwars:
 
S

seniorle

Guest
that little icon is awesome john. star wars is my favorite. it reminds of the star wars slot machine game i played in Vegas
 

marv81s

v v v KamaraPolice's GF
Messages
1,463
Reaction score
66
IrishKnight, i didn't see anything wrong with what you were saying about Sweat at all, the tea bag thing on Beal, yeah a tad, but it was funny.

Beal does have a man crush on usc, but usc has a pretty good track record on LBs right now, so its understandable somewhat.

but those quotes on Sweat were not what I would call "bashing" a kid, your thoughts and opinions.
 

irishunclebill

Well-known member
Messages
1,634
Reaction score
80
Man, 4 days away from IE. I would really miss the arcade!!!!

Welcome back IUB.


LOL- Thanks irishnd31, way to put it all in the proper perspective. Reps to you. Let's all just have a little fun, whether in the arcade or in the forums.
 
H

HereComeTheIrish

Guest
IUB -

I don't think that comments of the sort you're talking about are the ones that are taken to be problematic. They're reasoned, well-expressed, and factually supported. The comments that -- I take it -- were getting people up in arms were of two sorts:

1. Those that said really harsh and careless things about recruits.

2. Those that expressed an opinion about a recruit's athletic abilities that was clearly based solely on the fact that that recruit was apparently going elsewhere.

Comments in category (2) are just stupid, but I think the moderators made it clear that they'll leave it to us to police those sorts of remarks ourselves. Comments in category (1) have always been off-limits on IE, so there's no real change here from the old "don't bash recruits" policy -- a policy which never forbade CRITICIZING recruits in sensible ways like the ones in your post above. So I don't think you really have anything to worry about.

Does that seem right to everyone?

P.S. Congrats to your daughter - you should be really proud of her, and of yourself as well for that matter.

Spot on Johnny boy...Spot on... Good summary.
 
Top