what political party do you belong to?

IRISHDODGER

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It's funny how people hate her. She may be vocal about some things, but she is often correct, and to my knowlege speaks the truth. Which most bombthrowers do not.

Often times she is joking when she speaks, a lot of it is tongue in cheek, and could easily be taken out of context. Which is what Media Matters (a left wing tracking group) does quite often.

I don't hate her dude. I get a kick out of her & she can give get down & dirty w/ the hate mongers on the other side. I just think people like Laura Ingraham, Brian & the Judge, Glenn Beck, John Gibson & Sean Hannity bring more civilized debate to the table which means they have credibility w/ their views & at the end of the day they don't "hate" their political adversaries...they just respectfully agree to disagree. Ok, Gibson is a smart ass, but who doesn't appreciate a good smart ass?
 

stonebreakerwasgod

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I didn't mean you bubba. I meant people in general. I find her entertaining, which is why she sells alot of books. Method behind her madness, to be sure.

I luv smartasses, myself included.
 

IRISHDODGER

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I didn't mean you bubba. I meant people in general. I find her entertaining, which is why she sells alot of books. Method behind her madness, to be sure.

I luv smartasses, myself included.

You're right about her books they're great reads for us conservatives. She doesn't have any trouble selling them either, as they're all typically best sellers. Another sign of her success is the fact that a liberal commentator (Susan Estrich, maybe?) wrote a book bashing Coulter. Kind of like when Al Franken wrote the book, "Rush Limbaugh is a big fat liar" or something. I guess that's when you know you've made it!
 

stonebreakerwasgod

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I like Susan, she is fairly personable, just misguided (isn't she a USC prof??). Is Al Franken and Moore even relevant anymore?? Those guys should have zero cred.
 
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ShivaIrish

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Now the Kansas City airport has installed "foot baths" for the Muslim taxi cab drivers to clean their feet before their prayers of "Death to the Infidels!" five times a day. Another town is up in arms b/c they want to open a "Muslims Only" school. :

I don't have a problem with a faucet installed--religious freedom in this country should make certain allowances for the religious practices of people, whether Christian, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, Hindu, etc. We take for granted sometimes the Christian origins of some of our allowances, something which more people should realize. What is of most concern to me is the bashing of the practice of salat (daily prayer five times), which is a beautiful ritual. The issue to me is not people pointing out the hypocracy of some Muslims, but it is the extension of those observations to include Muslims in general. It's not about being "PC," it's about respecting other human beings. It's a bummer to see you write what you did, when you're either making a cruel joke, or you lack a basic understanding of the religion you seem so willing to write off.

Are you talking about the Khalil Gibran International Academy in Brooklyn? I'm not sure right now about what to make of it. It is after all supposed to be a public school, and so is not "Muslim Only." But N.Y. already has schools dealing with Asian culture and Chinese language. I think the issue would be actually easier if the school was actually a Muslim school, just like Notre Dame is a Catholic institution.
 

stonebreakerwasgod

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Wait a second. Our country is mostly Christian, and we can't put up decorations or have a moment of silence. But let the f.....rs who want to kill us come to town, and let's bend over backwards to appease/accomodate them. Kind of like in schools today, where having muslim icons/pictures are ok, while ANYTHING Christian is banned.

The attack on Christianity continues, while the hypocrisy grows worse.
 

marv81s

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I don't have a problem with a faucet installed--religious freedom in this country should make certain allowances for the religious practices of people, whether Christian, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, Hindu, etc. We take for granted sometimes the Christian origins of some of our allowances, something which more people should realize. What is of most concern to me is the bashing of the practice of salat (daily prayer five times), which is a beautiful ritual. The issue to me is not people pointing out the hypocracy of some Muslims, but it is the extension of those observations to include Muslims in general. It's not about being "PC," it's about respecting other human beings. It's a bummer to see you write what you did, when you're either making a cruel joke, or you lack a basic understanding of the religion you seem so willing to write off.

Are you talking about the Khalil Gibran International Academy in Brooklyn? I'm not sure right now about what to make of it. It is after all supposed to be a public school, and so is not "Muslim Only." But N.Y. already has schools dealing with Asian culture and Chinese language. I think the issue would be actually easier if the school was actually a Muslim school, just like Notre Dame is a Catholic institution.

Where do we draw the line at religious accomadation and isn't this footbath ordeal close to the whole separation between church and state?
 
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ShivaIrish

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Where do we draw the line at religious accomadation and isn't this footbath ordeal close to the whole separation between church and state?

I agree it can be a tricky situation at times. However, government funds were not use to install them. Second, it is not restricted to only Muslims to use. The bottom line is that we're talking about faucets, with benches, and drains. Intrinsically, there is actually nothing religious about--not like the establishment of Christmas as holiday. In and of themselves, there is nothing religious about them. So if you and I wanted to use it (probably we would have to be taxidrivers to be in the building?) we should be able to use it. A problem, however, would rise if we were excluded because we were not Muslim.
 
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ShivaIrish

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Wait a second. Our country is mostly Christian, and we can't put up decorations or have a moment of silence. But let the f.....rs who want to kill us come to town, and let's bend over backwards to appease/accomodate them. Kind of like in schools today, where having muslim icons/pictures are ok, while ANYTHING Christian is banned.

The attack on Christianity continues, while the hypocrisy grows worse.

We do have moments of silence. It's sad that you equate Muslims with people who "who want to kill us." Question for you: what schools are we putting Muslim icons/pictures? Generally speaking, the religion is against icons (for instance, a picture of Muhammad).

I do agree that Christianity does seem to be targeted at times, but I doubt anything is as serious at your over-the-top claim that all Muslims are "f....rs who want to kill us.) This case of "footbaths" is hardly bending over backwards--and in theory, anybody can use them.

Christianity may get a bum wrap, but Christians who hold stereotyped prejudices of others certainly does not help their cause.
 

IRISHDODGER

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I don't have a problem with a faucet installed--religious freedom in this country should make certain allowances for the religious practices of people, whether Christian, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, Hindu, etc. We take for granted sometimes the Christian origins of some of our allowances, something which more people should realize. What is of most concern to me is the bashing of the practice of salat (daily prayer five times), which is a beautiful ritual. The issue to me is not people pointing out the hypocracy of some Muslims, but it is the extension of those observations to include Muslims in general. It's not about being "PC," it's about respecting other human beings. It's a bummer to see you write what you did, when you're either making a cruel joke, or you lack a basic understanding of the religion you seem so willing to write off.

Are you talking about the Khalil Gibran International Academy in Brooklyn? I'm not sure right now about what to make of it. It is after all supposed to be a public school, and so is not "Muslim Only." But N.Y. already has schools dealing with Asian culture and Chinese language. I think the issue would be actually easier if the school was actually a Muslim school, just like Notre Dame is a Catholic institution.

There's a difference between respecting a religion & bending over backwards in the name of PC to appease one sect over the majority when the majority gets sued for expressing their religious freedom. BTW, I don't know of any reports of Christians killing Muslims for publishing Korans, but I know of reports of Muslims killing Chrisitians for publishing bibles. Funny though, Christians get called radical right or extremist but Muslims are just expressing their religious doctrine. You might want to check out Mohammed's history as well...not always the most non-violent or sinless figure that he gets portrayed.
 

IRISHDODGER

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I agree it can be a tricky situation at times. However, government funds were not use to install them. Second, it is not restricted to only Muslims to use. The bottom line is that we're talking about faucets, with benches, and drains. Intrinsically, there is actually nothing religious about--not like the establishment of Christmas as holiday. In and of themselves, there is nothing religious about them. So if you and I wanted to use it (probably we would have to be taxidrivers to be in the building?) we should be able to use it. A problem, however, would rise if we were excluded because we were not Muslim.


But it was still installed for religious purposes regardless if someone wants to wash their feet, which I have yet to see a demand for in the many airports that I've been in. Bottom line, if a Christian group paid for something that supported their religion, they'd have been picketed by the ACLU and any other secular progressive group you want to include.
 

IRISHDODGER

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I don't have a problem with a faucet installed--religious freedom in this country should make certain allowances for the religious practices of people, whether Christian, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, Hindu, etc. We take for granted sometimes the Christian origins of some of our allowances, something which more people should realize. What is of most concern to me is the bashing of the practice of salat (daily prayer five times), which is a beautiful ritual. The issue to me is not people pointing out the hypocracy of some Muslims, but it is the extension of those observations to include Muslims in general. It's not about being "PC," it's about respecting other human beings. It's a bummer to see you write what you did, when you're either making a cruel joke, or you lack a basic understanding of the religion you seem so willing to write off.

Are you talking about the Khalil Gibran International Academy in Brooklyn? I'm not sure right now about what to make of it. It is after all supposed to be a public school, and so is not "Muslim Only." But N.Y. already has schools dealing with Asian culture and Chinese language. I think the issue would be actually easier if the school was actually a Muslim school, just like Notre Dame is a Catholic institution.

I sincerely apologize to you if you thought my remarks were cruel. I include sarcasm for levity but realize it can be misperceived. I recognize & appreciate Muslims' right to religious expression...I would just hope that us Christians would get the same treatment instead of continually being denigrated by the secular progressives.
 

Sureal

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IrishDodger-- Us christians will continue to get casted as stiffnecked people and unconforming. It's part of the price that we pay.

Party Affiliation: None. I don't agree totally with Republicans and I sure nuff don't agree totally with Democrats. So I vote for the best candidate that fits my ideals. Independent is the way to go for me nowadays...
 

LOVEMYIRISH

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Wait a second. Our country is mostly Christian, and we can't put up decorations or have a moment of silence. But let the f.....rs who want to kill us come to town, and let's bend over backwards to appease/accomodate them. Kind of like in schools today, where having muslim icons/pictures are ok, while ANYTHING Christian is banned.

The attack on Christianity continues, while the hypocrisy grows worse.

Nothing Christian is banned. What is not allowed is for the GOVERNMENT to favor one religion over the other.

For instance, you can have a Christmas tree up in City Hall IF you allow for other relgious denominations to place their displays out as well. Just like Judge Moore in Alabama. He lost because he would only let the Ten Commandments be displayed prominently, he refused other displays in the same way.

In fact, the Supreme Court has a number of Christian and non-Christian displays.
 
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ShivaIrish

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I sincerely apologize to you if you thought my remarks were cruel. I include sarcasm for levity but realize it can be misperceived. I recognize & appreciate Muslims' right to religious expression...I would just hope that us Christians would get the same treatment instead of continually being denigrated by the secular progressives.

You're right, it is sometimes hard to perceive sarcasm through an internet forum. However, sometimes sarcasm can be taken too far...

But I agree that Christians should be given the same treatment as Muslims and other religious groups. And the foot bath thing is a unique situation. However, especially if others are allowed to use (meaning besides Muslims), than there should be no reason to be against it. It's a much different situation than putting the ten commandments up, for that is intrinsically a religious item.

One thing I am unsure of is what exactly is meant by secular progressives. Recently I went to a talk by the Dalai Lama, who expressed the opinion that "secular" does not have to mean "anti-religion" (even if that is the case sometimes).
 
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ShivaIrish

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BTW, I don't know of any reports of Christians killing Muslims for publishing Korans, but I know of reports of Muslims killing Chrisitians for publishing bibles. Funny though, Christians get called radical right or extremist but Muslims are just expressing their religious doctrine. You might want to check out Mohammed's history as well...not always the most non-violent or sinless figure that he gets portrayed.

I have to admit ignorance about Muslims killing Christians for publishing bibles--but you can find plenty of historical evidence of Christians doing the same kind of things. People from both religions do crappy stuff.

Trust me, I have become acquainted with some of Mohammed's history, and no, he was not non-violent. That is one of the things that I both respect and am bothered by when looking at his life. Essentially, though, he was able to come up with a "just-war" ideal, and that was found in his practice. There could have been much more bloodshed without him. For Muslims, they have a legitimate model for just-war. Christians, however, cannot look at Jesus for that model, and yet, plenty of Christians wage wars that they claim are "just." Plenty of great Christinan leaders and thinkers have supported "just-war theories." So one must certainly agre with you that Mohammed was not non-violent throughout his life, but one must ask him or herself, does that make him sinful? It seems that "just-wars" are an ideal appreciated by people from both religions, but I don't think they would necessarily see it as sinful. Regardless, Mohammed was certainly an amazing historical figure.
 

IRISHDODGER

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I have to admit ignorance about Muslims killing Christians for publishing bibles--but you can find plenty of historical evidence of Christians doing the same kind of things. People from both religions do crappy stuff.

Trust me, I have become acquainted with some of Mohammed's history, and no, he was not non-violent. That is one of the things that I both respect and am bothered by when looking at his life. Essentially, though, he was able to come up with a "just-war" ideal, and that was found in his practice. There could have been much more bloodshed without him. For Muslims, they have a legitimate model for just-war. Christians, however, cannot look at Jesus for that model, and yet, plenty of Christians wage wars that they claim are "just." Plenty of great Christinan leaders and thinkers have supported "just-war theories." So one must certainly agre with you that Mohammed was not non-violent throughout his life, but one must ask him or herself, does that make him sinful? It seems that "just-wars" are an ideal appreciated by people from both religions, but I don't think they would necessarily see it as sinful. Regardless, Mohammed was certainly an amazing historical figure.


You hit the nail on the head. Mohammed WAS an amazing historical figure but he didn't rise from the dead. And I am confident that Jesus was sad that the Crusades occurred b/c He certainly would have preached against them just like he disagreed w/ the pharisees who liked to use their religion as an excuse to inflict violence or bigotry. He did stress that the law of the land be followed & respected. Bottom line: there was only one perfect being & He was nailed to the cross, the rest of us fall short & can receive salvation through his sacrifice. Finally, there are only 3 non-pantheistic religions that I'm aware of: Christianity, Judaism & Islam. Only one of them can be correct b/c they all contradict each other...at least based on my limited theological education:)
 

stonebreakerwasgod

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We do have moments of silence. It's sad that you equate Muslims with people who "who want to kill us." Question for you: what schools are we putting Muslim icons/pictures? Generally speaking, the religion is against icons (for instance, a picture of Muhammad).

I do agree that Christianity does seem to be targeted at times, but I doubt anything is as serious at your over-the-top claim that all Muslims are "f....rs who want to kill us.) This case of "footbaths" is hardly bending over backwards--and in theory, anybody can use them.

Christianity may get a bum wrap, but Christians who hold stereotyped prejudices of others certainly does not help their cause.

A hell of A LOT of muslims want to kill us. Sorry for stating the obvious. Ain't over the top, just the truth. I don't see other religions cheering in the streets on 9-11. You may have forgotten, but I haven't.
Christians get a bum wrap from people who give it a bum wrap. US Christians do nothing to invite the hatred, nor does America do ANYTHING to invite the jihad. It may be sick, perverted muslims doing it, but a HELL of alot of muslims just the same. Rarely do we here of the so-called 'moderates' standing up and speaking out against it. Probably because they fear their life. Stop being an apologist, and tell the dem leaders to acknowlege that their actually is a 'global war on terror'. Oh yeah, for political reasons, they refuse to. Shame on them.
 

stonebreakerwasgod

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You hit the nail on the head. Mohammed WAS an amazing historical figure but he didn't rise from the dead. And I am confident that Jesus was sad that the Crusades occurred b/c He certainly would have preached against them just like he disagreed w/ the pharisees who liked to use their religion as an excuse to inflict violence or bigotry. He did stress that the law of the land be followed & respected. Bottom line: there was only one perfect being & He was nailed to the cross, the rest of us fall short & can receive salvation through his sacrifice. Finally, there are only 3 non-pantheistic religions that I'm aware of: Christianity, Judaism & Islam. Only one of them can be correct b/c they all contradict each other...at least based on my limited theological education:)

We all know Touchdown Jesus is the Man. Therefore, the others are wrong. :usa:
 

big daddy

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I like the way Liberal Americans and Europeans kiss up to Islam, they don't seen to understand the religion of peace is violent and will one day force them to convert or face the sword. I just don't understand their hatred for Christianity. I wonder if these Muslim loving kiss ups can even grow a beard or would want to wear a burkah ( Spelling).
 

IRISHDODGER

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I like the way Liberal Americans and Europeans kiss up to Islam, they don't seen to understand the religion of peace is violent and will one day force them to convert or face the sword. I just don't understand their hatred for Christianity. I wonder if these Muslim loving kiss ups can even grow a beard or would want to wear a burkah ( Spelling).

It's simple, the liberals & the Islamofacsists have the same goal: defeat America. Look how the mainstream media minimizes every terrorist plot that our agencies have foiled. They don't want to link any of these instances to Al-Kaeda, etc., b/c it would infer that they are plotting terrorists attacks on our soil again. That would not bode well for a Democrat wanting to be elected as the Republicans are known as the more aggressive party vs. terrorism. Had the New Jersey bust happened soon after 9/11, it would have been celebrated as a victory over the bad guys. Instead, it's pushed to page 2 as some "homegrwon" terrorists who weren't very good shots anyway...give me a break.
 

big daddy

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After all we did to save the Muslim Albanians from Serbian attacks; this is how they repay us. I also like the way the media labeled these terrorists as Yugoslavs. The media would do anything to cover up the Islamic connection.











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LOVEMYIRISH

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Finally, there are only 3 non-pantheistic religions that I'm aware of: Christianity, Judaism & Islam. Only one of them can be correct b/c they all contradict each other...at least based on my limited theological education:)

Bahá'í is monotheistic.

They believe god is: "a personal God, unknowable, inaccessible, the source of all Revelation, eternal, omniscient, omnipresent and almighty."

Here's a wikipedia description:
Bahá'ís believe that although people have different concepts of God and His nature, and call Him by different names, everyone is speaking of the same one Being. God is taught to be a personal God in that God is conscious of His creation, has a mind, will and purpose. At the same time the Bahá'í teachings state that God is too great for humans to fully understand Him or to create a complete and accurate image of Him. Bahá'u'lláh attributed titles to God such as the All-Powerful, and the All-Loving, which are derived from the limited human experiences of power, love, or justice. Bahá'u'lláh teaches that human knowledge of God is limited to those attributes and qualities which are perceptible to us, and thus direct knowledge about the essence of God is not possible. Bahá'ís believe, thus, that through daily prayer, meditation and study they can grow closer to God. The obligatory prayers in the Bahá'í Faith involve explicit monotheistic testimony.

Furthermore Bahá'u'lláh states that the knowledge of the attributes of God is revealed to humanity through the messengers he sends to humanity. The Bahá'í Faith accepts the authenticity of the founders of monotheistic faiths such as Abraham, Jesus, Muhammad, et cetera. Given Bahá'í beliefs in the unity of religion and that revelation is progressive, some non-Abrahamanic religions are accepted and seen as providing an earlier or partial understanding of the unity of God. This is not only true of seemingly polytheistic traditions such as popular Hinduism, which follows Smarta tradition, for the most part but even of what are sometimes interpreted as atheistic teachings, such as Buddhism

Some Hindus are monotheistic as well (which shocked me).

Sikhism is monotheistic too.
 

LOVEMYIRISH

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US Christians do nothing to invite the hatred, nor does America do ANYTHING to invite the jihad. It may be sick, perverted muslims doing it, but a HELL of alot of muslims just the same. Rarely do we here of the so-called 'moderates' standing up and speaking out against it. Probably because they fear their life. Stop being an apologist, and tell the dem leaders to acknowlege that their actually is a 'global war on terror'. Oh yeah, for political reasons, they refuse to. Shame on them.

They also don't get air time...they don't make for good news.

The only people who have a genuine grudge against Americans would be the Central Americans (who we pretty well fucked over in the 20th Century) and the American Indians who we nearly wiped out. [we killed 90% of them...which I would think might initiate a grudge]

Against American Christians as a specific and distinct group, none should have a grudge...
 
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ShivaIrish

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They also don't get air time...they don't make for good news.

The only people who have a genuine grudge against Americans would be the Central Americans (who we pretty well fucked over in the 20th Century) and the American Indians who we nearly wiped out. [we killed 90% of them...which I would think might initiate a grudge]

Against American Christians as a specific and distinct group, none should have a grudge...

Part of the problem is people want simple black-and-white situations. It's much easier to say that all Muslims are bad, and therefore Islam is a bad rellgion. After all, it was and effective motivating tool for ignorant Europeans that were nominal Christians during the Crusades. Some people want to take the time to figure out what's going on, some just want to find an enemy: it helps to channel their shadow aspects into constructive, or destructive, activity. People want an enemy.

I don't think people truly mean to downplay the nastiness of certain Muslim groups, but lets not extend that nastiness to include a religion as a whole, or to all Muslims. We should also make sure that just because someone thinks there is a different way of dealing with these tricky situations, doesn't mean that he or she does not want to right wrongs. I personally do think that war solves this stuff, for violence begets violence. But I unlike many democrats and republicans, I was against the invasion from the beginning.

Don't limit the screwing over to South America and the Native Americans either--the U.S. has had its hand in the Middle East as well--Hussein probably wouldn't have risen to powever, after all, without being backed by us.

No matter what the U.S. has done, however, it did not deserve any of the violent attacks on it. I do want to say, though (and this will probably stick in my buddy Stoney's craw) if you screw other nations by using them for your own economic benefit, and to their detriment (even if in that land it is technically legal), it probably will not foster a sentiment of good will toward that dominating country. ("It's just business" may work for those reaping the gains, for those who are bearing the brunt of the situation, they're just being screwed). People are not aware/refuse to acknowledge these kind of connections, and then resort to a simple matter of idealistic differences as the reason for animosity toward the U.S. And then what?

Hegel, that dude who some think glorified war, also made this quote: "What experience and history teach is this -- that people and governments never have learned anythingfrom history, or acted on principles deduced from it." Maybe some hyperbole is used, but still, it makes you wonder.

I just want to repeat an earlier sentence, just in case people want to overlook it: No matter what the U.S. has done, however, it did not deserve any of the violent attacks on it.
 
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