Why South Bend, not Notre Dame, hurts recruiting...

[Irish Envy]

"I've visited Michigan, too. I like the atmosphere because there is more to do than at Notre Dame--it seems like more of a fun place."

This is what Notre Dame recruiting prospect Michael Williams said in a recent interview on Scout.com. As you know, Williams is very high on Notre Dame. When a prospect with legit interest in the Irish says something like this, you can see why Notre Dame struggles to get recruits that prefer a "city experience" like Marvin Austin.

 

[nayers]

forget these types, they can play at disneyland and sightsee all they want to, I want kids hungry to win a NC and will sacrafice that crap to get one. I still dont buy all of this anyways...it's not like we are talking like this when we get kids like JC, or Kumara, or Raggone, or any other top prospect. We just need to keep our heads up, we will not always get every single recruit. Working in sales if I had the closing rate the C-DUB has, I would be a freakin millionare.

 

[Folsteam_Ahead]

this kind of stuff hurts big time. most kids tip toe around that topic bc they know it sets of lots of fans and starts the threads about how shallow they are. texas tech has this problem as well. i'm from dallas. and lubbock is a joke. not only is the town's only activity going to the bar, it's surrounded by nothingness. there's not even the option to drive 30 min to the city. nd needs to build a super bullet train from the gug to downtown chicago exclusively for athletes. that would help some.

 

[punishment]

I've never been to Ann Arbor, but I can't imagine it being that much more of a city than South Bend.

I don't know if it is so much of a city thing, because other universities in South Bend like cities recuirt real well. In fact, most major D-1 college football universities are in South Bend like cities. For example, Norman, Lincoln, Blacksburg, etc.

I think the one difference though is that these cities are much more college friendly, and are in essence college towns. Places where there are many activities for youths within walking distance from campus, like bars, etc.

I think the problem is that there has always been a lot of separation between South Bend and ND. First, ND's campus is so tucked in the middle, that the buildings are like a 1/2 mile from any street. (Although that is changing with all the expansion.) But also, there aren't any places near campus where people without cars can walk too. For fun in ND, the only places you can walk to are the Backer and Turtle Creek Apts.

I don't think SB needs to become more of a city, just become more college friendly. Although the problem also exists that many South Benders, or "townies," view NDers as outsiders, and as being quite snobbish.

 

[Irish Envy]

Ann Arbor is a college town through and through. I've been up there 2 or 3 times and have had a blast every time. When people graduate from Michigan, they often want to stay in Ann Arbor.

Back to South Bend, you're so right about the nothing to do within walking distance. I'm also really surprised a developer hasn't bought out a couple blocks close to campus and developed some sort of mecca for college students.

 

[Folsteam_Ahead]

the school should even take an initiative on some social venues in close proximity to the student body without placing it in the middle of campus. there has to be some kind of space in the budget to pop up a couple trendy spots along with the new dorms and athletic buildings we meet each time we visit.

 

[polishdomer]

Hey...wait a sec...

Hey...wait a sec...

the school should even take an initiative on some social venues in close proximity to the student body without placing it in the middle of campus. there has to be some kind of space in the budget to pop up a couple trendy spots along with the new dorms and athletic buildings we meet each time we visit.

We have a friggin bar on campus, next to the stadium! How many other schools can say that? There are also many bars in town, but I had a blast in South Bend as I played many intramural sports while I was at ND. I have been to Ann Arbor, and I disagree it is a "happenin' place." It may have been my distaste for Michigan that provided the bias, but ce la vie.

I did not go to school to South Bend to "enjoy the city life." I am in the Chicago suburbs, so ti did not matter to me if I would have access to the starlets in a place like LA. My main focus was on getting an education, and those athletes whose priority are a NC and a damn good education, bring them on. If they can't put 2 & 2 together, that's fine. There's more fish in the sea...

 

[Irish Envy]

We have a friggin bar on campus, next to the stadium! How many other schools can say that? There are also many bars in town, but I had a blast in South Bend as I played many intramural sports while I was at ND. I have been to Ann Arbor, and I disagree it is a "happenin' place." It may have been my distaste for Michigan that provided the bias, but ce la vie.

I did not go to school to South Bend to "enjoy the city life." I am in the Chicago suburbs, so ti did not matter to me if I would have access to the starlets in a place like LA. My main focus was on getting an education, and those athletes whose priority are a NC and a damn good education, bring them on. If they can't put 2 & 2 together, that's fine. There's more fish in the sea...

But to a potential recruit, a bar on campus isn't a drawing point. If you come from a big city, you're spoiled and used to have access to a wide array of restaurants, shopping, entertainment and night life options.

That does make it a very tough pull for those blue chip recruits because, and let's be completely honest, very few are truly here for an education first. They are here to 1) make it to the NFL, 2) win and 3) have a good time. I'd say education probably comes in somewhere around 30th or 40th for most blue chippers, and probably further down on the rung for those inner city kids... That's a broad generalization, but you get my point.

 

[dankus]

We have a friggin bar on campus, next to the stadium! How many other schools can say that? There are also many bars in town, but I had a blast in South Bend as I played many intramural sports while I was at ND. I have been to Ann Arbor, and I disagree it is a "happenin' place." It may have been my distaste for Michigan that provided the bias, but ce la vie.

I did not go to school to South Bend to "enjoy the city life." I am in the Chicago suburbs, so ti did not matter to me if I would have access to the starlets in a place like LA. My main focus was on getting an education, and those athletes whose priority are a NC and a damn good education, bring them on. If they can't put 2 & 2 together, that's fine. There's more fish in the sea...

College for most people is not just about an education. It is their first taste of independence so they are going to want to have some sort of night-life.

Having a bar next to the stadium is nothing when you go to schools like the University of Texas where they have streets within walking distance that are lined with bars. Most schools have some sort of place nearby that will facilitate a great evening, and unfortunately South Bend really doesn't. I was born in South Bend, and most of my family live up there, and other than visiting them and going to our lake house in Michigan, there isn't much to do at night for this twenty-one year old.

 

[Fitzgerald]

They're not there to party. They're there to play football. If they don't like it, they can not commit to us.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

They're not there to party. They're there to play football. If they don't like it, they can not commit to us.

Actually, they are there to:
1) Get an education
2) Learn to live on their own
3) Play football
4) PARTY!!!

 

[Fitzgerald]

1) Play football
2) Play football

 

[slumd]

Hope some of those guys, if they get to the NFL, don't get drafted by Green Bay!! Might interfere with their social life!!

 

[sponge]

Development is in progress...

Development is in progress...

Ann Arbor is a college town through and through. I've been up there 2 or 3 times and have had a blast every time. When people graduate from Michigan, they often want to stay in Ann Arbor.

Back to South Bend, you're so right about the nothing to do within walking distance. I'm also really surprised a developer hasn't bought out a couple blocks close to campus and developed some sort of mecca for college students.

ND is currently in the works of selling the land South of Angela/Edison (along Eddy St.) for the purpose of being developed as a college town community. This has been in the works, via puchasing necessary plots of land, for over five years now. The developer, to be chosen by ND, will likely be required to meet strict criteria for what can be built. My understanding is that Eddy St will be lined with store fronts, located just a few feet off the street, with parking behind the store. New mid to upscale residential housing will then fill in the surrounding areas. The intention is to make the southern end of campus look like Alexandria, VA rather than a crack infested ghetto.

 

[Irish Envy]

ND is currently in the works of selling the land South of Angela/Edison (along Eddy St.) for the purpose of being developed as a college town community. This has been in the works, via puchasing necessary plots of land, for over five years now. The developer, to be chosen by ND, will likely be required to meet strict criteria for what can be built. My understanding is that Eddy St will be lined with store fronts, located just a few feet off the street, with parking behind the store. New mid to upscale residential housing will then fill in the surrounding areas. The intention is to make the southern end of campus look like Alexandria, VA rather than a crack infested ghetto.

Awesome, thanks for the input! Doing something like this will definitely change the recruiting landscape if done correctly.

There are tons of tiny little houses within a couple blocks of Notre Dame for $20k and under. Maybe I should look into one to refurb or for speculation purposes.

 

[punishment]

ND is currently in the works of selling the land South of Angela/Edison (along Eddy St.) for the purpose of being developed as a college town community. This has been in the works, via puchasing necessary plots of land, for over five years now. The developer, to be chosen by ND, will likely be required to meet strict criteria for what can be built. My understanding is that Eddy St will be lined with store fronts, located just a few feet off the street, with parking behind the store. New mid to upscale residential housing will then fill in the surrounding areas. The intention is to make the southern end of campus look like Alexandria, VA rather than a crack infested ghetto.

I thought that the area south of Angela/Edison was being used for an extension of the med school that ND has as an extension from IU? Or is the area you are talking about much bigger than just that immediate block across the street that was empty back in 2003 when I was there and only used for parking during football games?

 

[punishment]

I find it kind of funny that we act as though kids that want to go play somewhere else are kids who don't have their priorities straight. And the kids that go to ND are those that do.

We make it sound as if those who to ND go there to get an education, learn religion and solve world hunger, and those that go to SC, Michigan, etc. go only to party. It might come as a shock to many, but SC and Michigan might have more prestigious alumni than ND.

Did those of you who went to ND really go there just to study? If you did, I'm sure that after your first weekend there, partying and getting laid become a priority in your life. And if you didn't feel that way, then WOW!!!

Those that do have their "head on straight" go to the best school possible because it presents them the best opporunity to become financially successful after college. How is that different for a kid who wants to make it in the NFL and sees that Miami's track record of putting kids in the NFL is just sick. And as much as we love Charlie as the greatest thing on earth, he still does not have a track record of putting successful players in the NFL. (I know everybody will say, "well look what he did with Quinn," but great college players don't necessarily translate to great NFL players, just ask all the Miami and Florida Heisman winners.) Let's see Charlie's players develop a track records first.

The NFL is the first priority, and first option for these kids. Not making it is sometimes not considered by these kids, and they will have to learn to develop a fall back. I mean, come on, those of you who went to college, how many of you went in there telling yourself "I'm going to this school to be an engineer, or doctor." But then things didn't work and you become some type of liberal studies major. The point is, you give your first priority a shot, and then you come up with a fallback.

Geez this got too long.

 

[jiggafini19]

My criteria went as follows:

1. School
2. Football
3. Fraternity

Now I look at some of these guys like Mike Williams (lazy) and the guys that just got drafted from SC...lots of character issues there. Lots. A few were bad students and a few were questioned on work ethic and attitude. To me, you're not getting much at USC once you leave based on what some of these guys have shown once they're gone.

 

[sponge]

I thought that the area south of Angela/Edison was being used for an extension of the med school that ND has as an extension from IU? Or is the area you are talking about much bigger than just that immediate block across the street that was empty back in 2003 when I was there and only used for parking during football games?

The area that will be under development will extend from:

The IU Med School on the West, along the old soccer fields on Edision, ending just short of the Soccer House/Linebacker Lounge on the East.

The intersection of Edison/Eddy on the North, along Eddy, ending as far down as Corby/SR23 on the South.

As such, nearly all of the triangle that makes up Edison/Eddy, Edison/23, and Eddy/23 will be developed.

In addition to the Triangle,the West side of Eddy (next to the IU Med School), from Edison to Napolean, will also be developed.

There are also two other separate initiatives, one in place and the other proposed. Already in place is the Notre Dame Avenue revitalization. Essentially ND employees are allowed to purchase newly built 1890-1920 style homes along ND Ave and some bordering streets. The other initiative is to build a research park somewhere near campus, currently recommended as the area in the Triangle adjacent to the Soccer House/Linebacker Lounge. Again, as far as I'm aware, this research park is only a proposal, whereas the other projects are moving forward.

 

[punishment]

My criteria went as follows:

1. School
2. Football
3. Fraternity

Now I look at some of these guys like Mike Williams (lazy) and the guys that just got drafted from SC...lots of character issues there. Lots. A few were bad students and a few were questioned on work ethic and attitude. To me, you're not getting much at USC once you leave based on what some of these guys have shown once they're gone.

My issue was more with the characterization of players like Tyler. I understand the Williams, Marijuanavich, Bing, etc. issues. But a lot of these guys were players we were not recruting.

But somebody like Tyler, who CW and staff have evaluated, and concluded are academically qualified and of good moral character, also have their priorities questioned when they don't commit to ND. Point being, if Tyler had commited, he would be "a good kid with his priorities straight," but since he didn't, he has "partying as his priority." It comes down to the individual. What about SC players like Carson Palmer, Ronnie Lott, etc., who have been of good character.

I think a lot of the criticisms of recruits who did not commit to ND is a result of the panic that many seem to be experiencing because we have not had every 5 star recruit that we want committ to us. And people are getting impatient because many thought that once Clausen committed, that every other player we wanted would commit to ND also.

 

[slumd]

I think we need the "big splash" season before we have a bonanza, rather than very good, recruiting year. Holtz' monster class was 1990, wasn't it? This was after the Irish ranked first in 1988 and, after being number 1 most of 1989, finished second. Like Holtz' 1986-1989 classes, we will do quite well, but not get everybody we want. Once the NC happens, we will clean up and they will be shouting "Break up Notre Dame!"

 

[Fitzgerald]

And as much as we love Charlie as the greatest thing on earth, he still does not have a track record of putting successful players in the NFL. (I know everybody will say, "well look what he did with Quinn," but great college players don't necessarily translate to great NFL players, just ask all the Miami and Florida Heisman winners.) Let's see Charlie's players develop a track records first.

College coaches aren't responsible for what their players do once in the NFL - only for getting them there. And that's all recruits look at. "Will he get me to the NFL?" Because getting to the NFL has a lot to do with the college coach, but succeeding in the NFL is all on the individual. Did Lloyd Carr have trouble recruiting runners after Biakabatuka went bust in the pros? Charlie took Fasano and helped his draft status (a little). He took Stovall, a guy who'd have been lucky to be a free agent signee, and got him taken in the 3rd round - and that was a surprise to many who thought he would go sooner. Charlie's NFL connections also got non-NFL quality guys like Matt Shelton signed as rookie free agents, giving them a chance they wouldn't otherwise have had.

So far, so good. And Brady Quinn and Jeff S, at the very least, will probably be first overall and early first round picks next year, respectively. Where would they be if not for Charlie? Samardzija would be playing baseball and Quinn would be a 4th round pick at best.

 

[punishment]

College coaches aren't responsible for what their players do once in the NFL - only for getting them there. And that's all recruits look at. "Will he get me to the NFL?" Because getting to the NFL has a lot to do with the college coach, but succeeding in the NFL is all on the individual. Did Lloyd Carr have trouble recruiting runners after Biakabatuka went bust in the pros? Charlie took Fasano and helped his draft status (a little). He took Stovall, a guy who'd have been lucky to be a free agent signee, and got him taken in the 3rd round - and that was a surprise to many who thought he would go sooner. Charlie's NFL connections also got non-NFL quality guys like Matt Shelton signed as rookie free agents, giving them a chance they wouldn't otherwise have had.

So far, so good. And Brady Quinn and Jeff S, at the very least, will probably be first overall and early first round picks next year, respectively. Where would they be if not for Charlie? Samardzija would be playing baseball and Quinn would be a 4th round pick at best.

One year and future possibilities to do not establish a track record.

And the impressions of a 17 year old when looking at NFL track records is how they performed there also. Say ND sends 20 kids to the NFL, and USC sends 10. Now the 20 ND guys are 2nd stringers, and all 10 USC guys are Pro-bowlers. A recruit is going to be under the impression that there are 10 USC guys in the NFL and 0 ND guys.

While a college coach is not responsible for getting them to the NFL, they should provide them with the tools and techniques to be successful. You should learn and grow from every coach you ever have.

 

[Guest]

I agree South Bend hurts us somewhat, but it has its benefits, kids are less likely to get in trouble there. USC for example can't stay out of trouble, and alot of that has to do with being located in LA.

I think what hurts ND more is that they have a reputation of not being a party school, rather a place you go just to get an education. I think some recruits just feel that they won't have any fun at ND the school, not just South Bend.

Also everyone says the girls at ND aren't pretty. I doubt thats true because you can find pretty girls anywhere IMO. But this is the kind of ammo other coaches use against ND and it hurts us.

When its all said and done though ND has a TV deal, and gets more national exposure than any other school in the country. So you just have to take the good with the bad, every school has their pros and cons, ND is no different...

 

[Fitzgerald]

Tom Brady, Brady Quinn. One NCAA season, one BCS bowl appearance. One full recruiting class, one top 10 recruiting class. 3 (or is it 4?) Super Bowl rings. Turned down this year's #1 high school quarterback so he could take next year's #1 high school quarterback.

There. Track record.

 

[Guest]

Years ago people used to say USC couldn't bring in talent because they were located in the inner city, now that they're winning everyone says its because they're in LA, and kids want to be in the spot light.

As long as Weis does his thing we'll bring in some great talent, Lou Holtz had no problems bringing in the best talent and last I checked ND had the same zip code back then...

 

[Fitzgerald]

While a college coach is not responsible for getting them to the NFL, they should provide them with the tools and techniques to be successful. You should learn and grow from every coach you ever have.

Also, this makes no sense. Are you arguing that Weis doesn't do this? Or that he hasn't proven he can do this? Or that recruits don't yet think he can do this?

Because Bill Parcells, Bill Belichik, Ben Coates, Tom Brady, Aaron Glenn, Brady Quinn, Jeff Samardzija, Mo Stovall, and pretty much everyone else who's ever watched football can attest to Charlie's ability to "provide [players] with the tools and techniques" to be successful in the NFL. He's got about as flawless a track record as anyone ever.

 

[punishment]

Also, this makes no sense. Are you arguing that Weis doesn't do this? Or that he hasn't proven he can do this? Or that recruits don't yet think he can do this?

Because Bill Parcells, Bill Belichik, Ben Coates, Tom Brady, Aaron Glenn, Brady Quinn, Jeff Samardzija, Mo Stovall, and pretty much everyone else who's ever watched football can attest to Charlie's ability to "provide [players] with the tools and techniques" to be successful in the NFL. He's got about as flawless a track record as anyone ever.

"This makes no sense" seems to be your response any time you don't agree with something. Not just on this topic, but on all others.

It's odd that my post is full of comments that Weis has not established a track record of sending successful players to the NFL, and then in the first part of your statement you inquire as to what I am asking, and you include exactly what I said in my post. Once again, one year does not establish a track record. One year means nothing if everything falls apart after that.

 

[Fitzgerald]

"This makes no sense" seems to be your response any time you don't agree with something. Not just on this topic, but on all others.

It's odd that my post is full of comments that Weis has not established a track record of sending successful players to the NFL, and then in the first part of your statement you inquire as to what I am asking, and you include exactly what I said in my post. Once again, one year does not establish a track record. One year means nothing if everything falls apart after that.

Ad hominem attacks don't mean anything. Rather than just admitting that what you said was complete nonsense, since Weis doesn't have just a "one year" track record, but has over a decade of making stars of people, the vast majority of which occurred in the NFL, you just insult me and hope that'll shut me up or get other people to chime in insulting me and so keep me from continuing to point out how flawed your logic is. Alas, no dice.

Guess what, making studs of NFL players means more than getting players drafted into the NFL - although Charlie will do that too. But Charlie's track record is better than that of any other coach in the NCAA. Look at what Ben Coates did when Weis was assigned to coach him. Do the same for Terry Glenn, Tom Brady, and now Brady Quinn. That's his track record. His teams win and his players break records.

So go ahead and make another ad hominem attack. It won't make your argument any less weak.

 

[punishment]

Do you read posts properly. My posts references that Weis has only a one year track record in college, and all you can do is bring up the NFL. In that case, Wanstedt is one of the top 5 coaches because when he was in the NFL, he coached some great defensive players. Read it again, are you ready, here it goes "Weis has only a one year track record in college." Now bring up all the NFL players again.

I don't know what your deal is, but you have a tendency to throw out attacks left and right on these boards. I have not done any of that in the time that I have been on these boards, but you are beginning to develop quite a track record.