2016 Presidential Horse Race

[kmoose]

I love a lot about Bernie, but this perfectly encapsulates why I think he's a horrible fit for President and why I'll be voting HillDog (unless Kasich somehow wrangles the nomination and then I'll have to think harder).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-to-a-disaster-for-bernie-sanders/?tid=sm_fb

Here's the thing, though. A vote for Clinton or Cruz is a vote for furtherance of the corrupt, inefficient, and almost inept system that is in place right now. With Clinton, everything is for sale to the highest bidder. With Cruz, NOTHING is for sale; but nothing is up for compromise, either. So either one of them will continue to produce government that accomplishes nothing, and only works to further the riches of those running it.

 

[woolybug25]

Here's the thing, though. A vote for Clinton or Cruz is a vote for furtherance of the corrupt, inefficient, and almost inept system that is in place right now. With Clinton, everything is for sale to the highest bidder. With Cruz, NOTHING is for sale; but nothing is up for compromise, either. So either one of them will continue to produce government that accomplishes nothing, and only works to further the riches of those running it.

I'll take nothing over the destruction Trump would cause to society.

 

[kmoose]

I'll take nothing over the destruction Trump would cause to society.

Fine........... then write in Betty Montgomery. But don't vote for someone who you know is going to continue the status quo, and even further entrench pi$$-poor government.

 

[woolybug25]

Fine........... then write in Betty Montgomery. But don't vote for someone who you know is going to continue the status quo, and even further entrench pi$$-poor government.

A write in IS voting for Trump. So that's a silly proposition.

Again, I don't like Hilldog as a person, but she isn't going to do unrepairable damage to American society.

 

[GoIrish41]

A write in IS voting for Trump. So that's a silly proposition.

Again, I don't like Hilldog as a person, but she isn't going to do unrepairable damage to American society.

GOP's only play here is nominating Paul Ryan at a contested convention, which would do some major damage to him and likely split the party. Even their best guy would be a longshot at best to beat Hillary at this point. But I'd take Paul Ryan over Donald Trump every day of the week. Trump is scary.

 

[kmoose]

A write in IS voting for Trump. So that's a silly proposition.

Again, I don't like Hilldog as a person, but she isn't going to do unrepairable damage to American society.

No. A write in is a vote for "fvck you @ssholes for putting these idiots, and only these idiots, on the ballot".

 

[GATTACA!]

A write in IS voting for Trump. So that's a silly proposition.

Again, I don't like Hilldog as a person, but she isn't going to do unrepairable damage to American society.

Oh come on, hyperboly much?

No president can do unrepairable damage, there are too many safeguards in place. If Trump is elected you will get 4 years of mocking from the rest of the world and deadlock in Congress. Then it will all go back to the status quo with both parties nominating their most vanilla options. Honestly if you lean left Trump is probably a better option than Cruz just based on how polarizing Trump is. Trump would have a harder time actually accomplishing anything, whereas Cruz might actually get some of his goofy shit passed.

 

[drayer54]

A write in IS voting for Trump. So that's a silly proposition.

Again, I don't like Hilldog as a person, but she isn't going to do unrepairable damage to American society.

I disagree. I look for her Supreme Court choices to leave a reign of bad judgements.

 

[woolybug25]

Oh come on, hyperboly much?

No president can do unrepairable damage, there are too many safeguards in place. If Trump is elected you will get 4 years of mocking from the rest of the world and deadlock in Congress. Then it will all go back to the status quo with both parties nominating their most vanilla options. Honestly if you lean left Trump is probably a better option than Cruz just based on how polarizing Trump is. Trump would have a harder time actually accomplishing anything, whereas Cruz might actually get some of his goofy shit passed.

Coming from someone that has been screaming from the rooftops about the damage you think liberals pose.

I won't even opine on the long term reputational damage he will do to our country throughout the world with our allies (like Isreal, who he won't publicly stand with), our neighbors (like demanding billions of dollars from Mexico) and/or our enemies (like stating nukes are an option against our enemies.) I'll just stick right here at home.

Trump isn't a politician, he's a tyrant. Every tyrant in the history of time has found ways to impose their law. He will do it through executive order, back room deals and whatever shady method he has to in order to get what he wants. Corporate boards, shareholders and media backlash has never stopped him. What... You expect a funny lil' thing like democracy to slip it's invisible lil' hand to stop him?

I'm sure you're right... I mean... Our current congress has done such a good job of stopping all of Obama's sweeping legislation.

wait...

 

[GATTACA!]

Coming from someone that has been screaming from the rooftops about the damage you think liberals pose.

I won't even opine on the long term reputational damage he will do to our country throughout the world with our allies (like Isreal, who he won't publicly stand with), our neighbors (like demanding billions of dollars from Mexico) and/or our enemies (like stating nukes are an option against our enemies.) I'll just stick right here at home.

Trump isn't a politician, he's a tyrant. Every tyrant in the history of time has found ways to impose their law. He will do it through executive order, back room deals and whatever shady method he has to in order to get what he wants. Corporate boards, shareholders and media backlash has never stopped him. What... You expect a funny lil' thing like democracy to slip it's invisible lil' hand to stop him?

I'm sure you're right... I mean... Our current congress has done such a good job of stopping all of Obama's sweeping legislation.

wait...

 

[Irish YJ]

Coming from someone that has been screaming from the rooftops about the damage you think liberals pose.

I won't even opine on the long term reputational damage he will do to our country throughout the world with our allies (like Isreal, who he won't publicly stand with), our neighbors (like demanding billions of dollars from Mexico) and/or our enemies (like stating nukes are an option against our enemies.) I'll just stick right here at home.

Trump isn't a politician, he's a tyrant. Every tyrant in the history of time has found ways to impose their law. He will do it through executive order, back room deals and whatever shady method he has to in order to get what he wants. Corporate boards, shareholders and media backlash has never stopped him. What... You expect a funny lil' thing like democracy to slip it's invisible lil' hand to stop him?

I'm sure you're right... I mean... Our current congress has done such a good job of stopping all of Obama's sweeping legislation.

wait...

Wooly you just described every politician.

 

[woolybug25]

Wooly you just described every politician.

So you agree that congress isn't going to be able to effectively stop him?

 

[woolybug25]

That's a strong rebuttal.

 

[GATTACA!]

That's a strong rebuttal.

Oh dude you're right, my bad. Donald Trump is a tyrant, Hitler 2.0, and lizard monster sent from the future with the goal of destroying democracy. #HailHydra

 

[woolybug25]

Oh dude you're right, my bad. Donald Trump is a tyrant, Hitler 2.0, and lizard monster sent from the future with the goal of destroying democracy. #HailHydra

Again... Way to provide some actual facts or opinions. Trump is definitely your type of guy.

 

[GATTACA!]

Again... Way to provide some actual facts or opinions.

.....Yeah.....that was my whole point. Guess that went over your head. Saying Trump IS a tyrant is ridiculous and baseless. It would be like saying Hillary IS a terrible business woman. Could she be? Sure. But saying that she IS makes you sound stupid since there is no evidence since she's never done it before.

Trump is definitely your type of guy.

Other than the fact that I don't want him to win? Who knows maybe like your tyrant comment if you say it with enough vigor people will believe you.

 

[woolybug25]

.....Yeah.....that was my whole point. Guess that went over your head. Saying Trump IS a tyrant is ridiculous and baseless. It would be like saying Hillary IS a terrible business woman. Could she be? Sure. But saying that she IS makes you sound stupid since there is no evidence since she's never done it before.



Other than the fact that I don't want him to win? Who knows maybe like your tyrant comment if you say it with enough vigor people will believe you.

So I'm the irrational one using vigor to try to force my opinion? Is that why you are the one saying I "sound stupid" because I think Trump will be a tyrant. I gave my reasoning on why his history suggests nothing less and even went point by point on how he would do it. All without any insults.

I guess the journalists at National Review, The Federalist, The Jewish World Review and Time Magazine are all ridiculous idiots with baseless opinions. Except the fact that the opinion isn't "baseless", it's based on his history. It's based on his own words. It's based on the policies he has proposed.

I think you hear the word "tyrant" and completely misconstrue the meaning. I can go on and on, but I'm clearly just wasting keystrokes. As we have gone back and forth and you have still haven't refuted a single point I have made with anything but jokes and insults.

 

[phgreek]

I disagree. I look for her Supreme Court choices to leave a reign of bad judgements.

THIS IS THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS!!!!

Hillary Clinton is awful for this country...

She isn't in it for her ego...she is in it for POWER.

If you see Hillary as a better option than Trump, you don't understand the the damage power hungry folks can do...and you don't understand the moderating...yes moderating impact of Ego.

Trump is an insufferable dickhead that thinks he can turn everything around because of who he is...When it comes time for action, he will be moderated by one word "legacy", he'll moderate and compromise, and prove himself "right"....that he was the best man for the job.

What will Hillary do...you can bet whatever is good for the Clintons, and THAT has the potential for more damage than Trump could cause by being a childish dickhead.

Its not the threat of him saying something, or even doing something provocative that should scare you...its being quietly being sold out, and put in harm's way that comes w/o warning...mark my words...that vile garbage heap of flesh, bone, and no soul will hurt this country far more than Donald Trump could ever fathom.

 

[GATTACA!]

So I'm the irrational one using vigor to try to force my opinion? Is that why you are the one saying I "sound stupid" because I think Trump will be a tyrant. I gave my reasoning on why his history suggests nothing less and even went point by point on how he would do it. All without any insults.

Except that's not what you said. You said "Trump isn't a politician, HE IS a tyrant."

I guess the journalists at National Review, The Federalist, The Jewish World Review and Time Magazine are all ridiculous idiots with baseless opinions. Except the fact that the opinion isn't "baseless", it's based on his history. It's based on his own words. It's based on the policies he has proposed.

They key word in this being OPINION. You can say you think ultimately Trump could be a tyrant, which i'm assuming is what those sources said. Not that he is definitely something.

I think you hear the word "tyrant" and completely misconstrue the meaning. I can go on and on, but I'm clearly just wasting keystrokes. As we have gone back and forth and you have still haven't refuted a single point I have made with anything but jokes and insults.

I think you're using a buzzword without actually knowing what it means. Tyrant: "a cruel and oppressive ruler"

Please give me an example of Trump being an oppressive ruler.

 

[arahop]

I can't take anyone serious as a human being who would vote for Trump. Talking with a Trump supporter to me is like trying to carry a conversation with a guy driving down the street in his rusted chevy truck, with his camouflage hat on and confederate flag waving in the back of his pick up. No matter what evidence or facts you bring to the table... You aren't changing that guys mind.

 

[woolybug25]

Except that's not what you said. You said "Trump isn't a politician, HE IS a tyrant."



They key word in this being OPINION. You can say you think ultimately Trump could be a tyrant, which i'm assuming is what those sources said. Not that he is definitely something.



I think you're using a buzzword without actually knowing what it means. Tyrant: "a cruel and oppressive ruler"

Please give me an example of Trump being an oppressive ruler.

1) He is, he was... I think both are true. What's your point?

2) Trump isn't a cruel and oppressive ruler? There are plenty of his past employees that would argue differently.

3) You haven't earned the right to demand me to go get more facts or references for you. You seemed to have found Google according to you looking up "tyrant", why don't you use your new skill to do that all on your own?

 

[drayer54]

I can't take anyone serious as a human being who would vote for Trump. Talking with a Trump supporter to me is like trying to carry a conversation with a guy driving down the street in his rusted chevy truck, with his camouflage hat on and confederate flag waving in the back of his pick up. No matter what evidence or facts you bring to the table... You aren't changing that guys mind.

I agree.

I also feel this way about Hilldog supporters.

I also feel this way about Bernie folks.

I also feel this way about Cruz folks.

 

[irishfan]

Coming from someone that has been screaming from the rooftops about the damage you think liberals pose.

I won't even opine on the long term reputational damage he will do to our country throughout the world with our allies (like Isreal, who he won't publicly stand with), our neighbors (like demanding billions of dollars from Mexico) and/or our enemies (like stating nukes are an option against our enemies.) I'll just stick right here at home.

Trump isn't a politician, he's a tyrant. Every tyrant in the history of time has found ways to impose their law. He will do it through executive order, back room deals and whatever shady method he has to in order to get what he wants. Corporate boards, shareholders and media backlash has never stopped him. What... You expect a funny lil' thing like democracy to slip it's invisible lil' hand to stop him?

I'm sure you're right... I mean... Our current congress has done such a good job of stopping all of Obama's sweeping legislation.

wait...

IMO this is clearly him falling back on what he thinks are his strong negotiating skills more so than what he plans on carrying out when elected. Maybe he'll be too stubborn-minded if elected and he will follow through on things that would be politically dangerous but in the examples you've given, I think he is just speaking how he would go about negotiating as a businessman.

Obviously, running a corporation is not the same thing as a business. Maybe he wouldn't be able to adapt. But I can guarantee him saying he wouldn't rule out nukes is his business mindset telling him to never take any sort of leverage or threat off the table even when he wouldn't realistically follow through with it. I can see why people who are opposed to him and will think that electing someone with that mindset would be dangerous. I just personally don't think everything he says on a whim is him laying out his future policy points. I tend to interpret what he says as more of him not knowing how to run a traditional political campaign (i.e. not knowing when to shut up or not always trying to speak from a position of power) over interpreting what he says as what he will lay out.

I actually think one of his only strong points that he's laid out ironically enough is how he would go about getting the money from Mexico in exchange for the wall being built. I'm not saying we're bending over backwards to Mexico, but it seems like there are a lot of ways in which we are accommodating that country that don't make much sense. One of the only things that appeals to me about Trump is that he will actually look at our trade deals and our foreign aid with an outsider's set of eyes. And personally I trust that if he is the GOP nominee that they would surround him with enough good people that they'd be able to temper any potential recklessness that he would pursue when negotiating.

 

[GATTACA!]

1) He is, he was... I think both are true. What's your point?

2) Trump isn't a cruel and oppressive ruler? There are plenty of his past employees that would argue differently.

3) You haven't earned the right to demand me to go get more facts or references for you. You seemed to have found Google according to you looking up "tyrant", why don't you use your new skill to do that all on your own?

So wait let me get this straight, I should have to look up evidence to support your claim because you don't know the difference between fact and opinion?

You haven't earned the right to demand me to go get more facts or references so i'm going to start making claims just like you, and you can use google to fact check them.

Bernie Sanders is a terrible cricket player

Hillary Clinton is an awful Chick-Fil-A owner

Ted Cruz is a shitty electrician

 

[Wild Bill]

So wait let me get this straight, I should have to look up evidence to support your claim because you don't know the difference between fact and opinion?

You haven't earned the right to demand me to go get more facts or references so i'm going to start making claims just like you, and you can use google to fact check them.

Bernie Sanders is a terrible cricket player

Hillary Clinton is an awful Chick-Fil-A owner

Ted Cruz is a shitty electrician

Cruz has been laying too much pipe to be a sparky. He's a plumber, for sure.

 

[GATTACA!]

Cruz has been laying too much pipe to be a sparky. He's a plumber, for sure.

 

[Irish YJ]

So you agree that congress isn't going to be able to effectively stop him?

Not necessarily. If both sides don't like him, don't like what he is suggesting, or feels that he's being too reckless, then they can/will stop him. He's a buffoon but personally I don't see him capable of anymore damage than Sanders or Hilldog. The whole situation (politics these days) is simply embarrassing and sad. I am ready for someone (not necessarily Trump) to burn down the status quo.

 

[woolybug25]

So wait let me get this straight, I should have to look up evidence to support your claim because you don't know the difference between fact and opinion?

You haven't earned the right to demand me to go get more facts or references so i'm going to start making claims just like you, and you can use google to fact check them.

Bernie Sanders is a terrible cricket player

Hillary Clinton is an awful Chick-Fil-A owner

Ted Cruz is a shitty electrician

You haven't earned the right to demand more research by me, when you haven't addressed any of the points I have made previously. You still haven't. I'm not asking you to prove my points, I'm telling you that it's not my responsibility to disprove them for you.

I've also never misconstrued fact vs opinion. You made that up all on your own.

 

[woolybug25]

Not necessarily. If both sides don't like him, don't like what he is suggesting, or feels that he's being too reckless, then they can/will stop him. He's a buffoon but personally I don't see him capable of anymore damage than Sanders or Hilldog. The whole situation (politics these days) is simply embarrassing and sad. I am ready for someone (not necessarily Trump) to burn down the status quo.

I disagree. Hilldog isn't talking about nuking ISIS (which is ridiculous, they are a worldwide organization, not a country), Bernie isn't talking about rounding up Mexicans to send back and Cruz isn't talking about banning all Muslims. You guys don't like Hilldog because a) she's a lib and b) you think she's a liar. Guess what? All politicians are liars, but they are liars that play within the rules. Trump isn't a politician, he's a power hungry oligarch that is manipulating an entire segment of the country in order to spin their hate into his success.

The guy isn't even a real conservative. It's absurd that people are actually falling for his act. His party should really be "oligarchy", as that is exactly what he is...

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I disagree. Hilldog isn't talking about nuking ISIS (which is ridiculous, they are a worldwide organization, not a country), Bernie isn't talking about rounding up Mexicans to send back and Cruz isn't talking about banning all Muslims. You guys don't like Hilldog because a) she's a lib and b) you think she's a liar. Guess what? All politicians are liars, but they are liars that play within the rules. Trump isn't a politician, he's a power hungry oligarch that is manipulating an entire segment of the country in order to spin their hate into his success.

The guy isn't even a real conservative. It's absurd that people are actually falling for his act. His party should really be "oligarchy", as that is exactly what he is...

Cruz is talking about carpet bombing ISIS and making the sand glow. So there's that.