'13 MI OT Steven Elmer (Notre Dame Early Enrollee)

[rtrn2glory]

so it sounds like we're recruiting guys who care "too" much about academics and the future.

sounds like we need to find the happy median??

only half kidding.

 

[NDinL.A.]

ISD hinted at Elmer hanging it up and being a Corey Robinson situation. odd to say the least from a 3 year starter going in to his Sr year..any inside info out there?

Dude is really, really bright, and is a self-professed nerd. A friend of mine sat with his dad at the bowl game (or was it the Wake game?), and it was discussed how much he enjoys things outside of football and he might not play his senior year. But NOTHING was set in stone and most think he will still play next year.

 

[Irishman77]

I just find this VERY telling on what some of the issues may be as far as focus and emotion goes.

Ahh rather than go on a rant of how dead we look on gameday I will just sthu and am taken a back a bit on this one.

On the bright side I felt that Elmer was given the nod just because of experience and wondered if he was really the best player.

I like the idea of Hoge at RG and Mustipher at Center...

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

I just find this VERY telling on what some of the issues may be as far as focus and emotion goes.

Ahh rather than go on a rant of how dead we look on gameday I will just sthu and am taken a back a bit on this one.

On the bright side I felt that Elmer was given the nod just because of experience and wondered if he was really the best player.

I do believe Max Redfield is in the same boat as well.

 

[brewdog_14527]

I will start this by saying that I would never criticize Elmer if he his trying to make himself a better person, as this is one of the selling points of coming to ND. But, I have wondered if the 40 year decision comes back to bite us a bit, as ND players become very successful in other aspects of life outside of football and it takes away some of the hunger that is evident in players from other schools who might not be in college if it was not for football and they view pro football as an escape from their prior lives.

 

[Luckylucci]

I will start this by saying that I would never criticize Elmer if he his trying to make himself a better person, as this is one of the selling points of coming to ND. But, I have wondered if the 40 year decision comes back to bite us a bit, as ND players become very successful in other aspects of life outside of football and it takes away some of the hunger that is evident in players from other schools who might not be in college if it was not for football and they view pro football as an escape from their prior lives.

I think this is very real. I wouldn't change it ,as it probably ends up best for the kids a majority of the time ,and gives them options. However, I do think there is a small edge that we lose from this. Its definitely not with all players so no need to comment on Jaylon not being a savage because he is ,but overall our players have a lot more going for them outside of football and they don't "need" it. That "need" and hunger can drive folks to be successful far beyond their god given abilities. Whether that shows up in practice, on Saturdays, or in the weight room.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Steve Elmer is a REALLY good NFL-quality guard. People need to shut up about that part of the story. If he wants to give pro-football a try, he should play this year and go for it --- the NFL will give him a chance. His versatility and brains are exactly what they want.

If he doesn't want to give the NFL a try [passing up a lot of dollars for a brief time at the least], then maybe he has a possible one-time shot at big-time government involvement. Doors of that sort do not open every day, and dreams deserve following.

We lose BIG TIME if he does not play, even with a Bars, Nelson, Mustipher/Hoge/Bivin, McGlinchey {pick five} line-up, with then very thin proven back-up [McGovern probably then first guard in; not terrible by a long shot, but a step down].

 

[woolybug25]

I will start this by saying that I would never criticize Elmer if he his trying to make himself a better person, as this is one of the selling points of coming to ND. But, I have wondered if the 40 year decision comes back to bite us a bit, as ND players become very successful in other aspects of life outside of football and it takes away some of the hunger that is evident in players from other schools who might not be in college if it was not for football and they view pro football as an escape from their prior lives.

I think we are losing sight with what college athletics are supposed to be about if we start thinking this way. Our program's very first priority is to enrich student-athletes and help them become better people. We are one of the best programs in the country for doing just that. It's great when we can help an underprivileged kid escape a tough upbringing, but that is not the mission of the university. It's a effect of it being successful.

The whole "we have too many choir boys" aspect is something that is a tough subject. In some respect, it's the tail wagging the donkey. The moment we start asking our student athletes to put football in front of their life pursuits, then aren't we letting go of our core beliefs as a program? In this case in particular, regardless of income or fame, if public service and political impact are Elmer's goals... then our football program shouldn't stand in his way.

 

[brewdog_14527]

I think we are losing sight with what college athletics are supposed to be about if we start thinking this way. Our program's very first priority is to enrich student-athletes and help them become better people. We are one of the best programs in the country for doing just that. It's great when we can help an underprivileged kid escape a tough upbringing, but that is not the mission of the university. It's a effect of it being successful.

The whole "we have too many choir boys" aspect is something that is a tough subject. In some respect, it's the tail wagging the donkey. The moment we start asking our student athletes to put football in front of their life pursuits, then aren't we letting go of our core beliefs as a program? In this case in particular, regardless of income or fame, if public service and political impact are Corey's goals... then our football program shouldn't stand in his way.

I don't, for one minute, think that it is a bad thing that ND athletes have more going for them than just football. That is the point of college athletics, and by all accounts, ND does this better than most big time schools. That being said, from a purely football standpoint in this day and age, I do wonder if it does hinder ND. The passion/hunger for purely football success may not be as strong as at the football factories. But, make no mistake, I am not saying that ND should change this philosophy, because as you said, the point of higher education is not football.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I just find this VERY telling on what some of the issues may be as far as focus and emotion goes.

Ahh rather than go on a rant of how dead we look on gameday I will just sthu and am taken a back a bit on this one.

On the bright side I felt that Elmer was given the nod just because of experience and wondered if he was really the best player.

I like the idea of Hoge at RG and Mustipher at Center...

I think Tristen Hoge would play center and Sam Mustipher would play right guard.

Interesting the conversation about having smart players! I come up with three questions :

Do you want 'em dumber to get back to the company store approach? The stupid ones don't have any other options, so they will put up with the injuries, heartache, and frustration that nobody with any talent otherwise, unless they have that 'perfect killer instinct' would consider?

What is the point of athletics? Everything else about the university experience prepares the student athlete for surviving in the real life. And in the days of Knute Rockne, football, at its level of lesser importance may have served that goal harmoniously as well. But in the shit-show Cluster-fuck Circus that college and professional football have become, is that still in any sense true?

When I was working in Fortune 50 CA, I always loved observing when two departments, divisions, or groups got to cross purposes. The show could be entertaining, if it wasn't raining pink slips around my ass! The reason I mention this is because at ND, you have two grossly efficient businesses at cross purposes, a Midwestern educational colossus, and a college football behemoth; the outcome will be interesting for sure!

 

[Domina Nostra]

What is the point of athletics? Everything else about the university experience prepares the student athlete for surviving in the real life. And in the days of Knute Rockne, football, at its level of lesser importance may have served that goal harmoniously as well. But in the shit-show Cluster-fuck Circus that college and professional football have become, is that still in any sense true?

I would say: What is the point of academics? Nothing about the university experience prepares the student athlete for surviving in the real life. Unless, of course, you are transistioning into the make-believe world of politics--which it appears that Mr. Robinson may be--then academics prepares you perfectly!

For me, college was 4 years of nonsense-- I unlearned all the good habits that high school had forced on me, got used to 3 hour work days, followed my interests randomly, and basically experienced life with almost no real responsibility. At least football makes you get up, work all day, and go to bed tired. That is real life.

(Or if you are going into the sciences or engineering, in which case you lived in a parallel universe with the rest of your college classmates.)

 

[RDU Irish]

What type of political pursuit does a college senior potentially have? Some flunky in the upcoming presidential election? I just fail to understand how high level any government position for a 21/22 year old would possibly be.

 

[woolybug25]

What type of political pursuit does a college senior potentially have? Some flunky in the upcoming presidential election? I just fail to understand how high level any government position for a 21/22 year old would possibly be.

Maybe he sees public service as a more meaningful calling in life then getting his head bashed in on Sundays. Maybe... and this is out there... he wants to make a positive difference in society.

Damn kids...

 

[Domina Nostra]

Maybe he sees public service as a more meaningful calling in life then getting his head bashed in on Sundays. Maybe... and this is out there... he wants to make a positive difference in society.

Damn kids...

Stated differently, maybe he doesn't think he's got a future in the NFL, but thinks he has a real future in politics, business, or something else, and that playing another year of football is actually more likely to interfere than conttribute to his goals.

(I am little more cynical about politics as "public service"--even for well meaning kids. It ends up accruing to the "servant's" benefit way too much these days.)

 

[RDU Irish]

Honest question, what type of government "opportunities" A: fit that bill, and B: can't wait a few years to kick off the career? In pretty much any scenario I imagine a pound of money and an ounce of fame from being an NFL player works to your advantage to advance those goals 5-6 years down the road.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I would say: What is the point of academics? Nothing about the university experience prepares the student athlete for surviving in the real life. Unless, of course, you are transistioning into the make-believe world of politics--which it appears that Mr. Robinson may be--then academics prepares you perfectly!

For me, college was 4 years of nonsense-- I unlearned all the good habits that high school had forced on me, got used to 3 hour work days, followed my interests randomly, and basically experienced life with almost no real responsibility. At least football makes you get up, work all day, and go to bed tired. That is real life.

(Or if you are going into the sciences or engineering, in which case you lived in a parallel universe with the rest of your college classmates.)

God Bless You! You are the one person that has expressed the notion that the 'realworkworld' doesn't comprise billions of times the nonsense you just described as the college experience! Myself, I would lump high school in there. The exception being there was more basic content I needed to learn, for my own betterment!

But all life for humans comprises social interactions, ego only tells us we are in charge, and all knowing. If I broke down what I learned in the military, specifically about staying alive, that was all bull shit too, just very useful bull shit! So it is all in the eye of the beholder.

Full circle, my whole point about conflicting entities, and philosophies, is we could sit here all day arguing for or against each one. And be right. And hurt bunches of people's feelings in the process. Etc., etc.

That isn't the point. The point is there is a basic conflict of two different bodies, with different philosophies competing for the same resourses; who will win? And how?

 

[Domina Nostra]

Honest question, what type of government "opportunities" A: fit that bill, and B: can't wait a few years to kick off the career? In pretty much any scenario I imagine a pound of money and an ounce of fame from being an NFL player works to your advantage to advance those goals 5-6 years down the road.

But the NFL (1) requires an incredible amount of dedication and (b) is really risky in terms of your long-term health. So if you are at ND only once, and you are presented with opprtunities to take internships, study abroad, take certain classes, but you have to lift weights and study film all the time, you may decide that you'll take the trade off-- especially if your dad is a millionaire hall of fame basketball player.

 

[woolybug25]

Honest question, what type of government "opportunities" A: fit that bill, and B: can't wait a few years to kick off the career? In pretty much any scenario I imagine a pound of money and an ounce of fame from being an NFL player works to your advantage to advance those goals 5-6 years down the road.

Time is a commodity, my man. If someone feels their calling is public service (or anything for that matter) and they have immediate access to start that calling, then more power to them. You may feel that money makes that easier, but as one great philosopher once noted, Mo money... mo problems...

In the same sense, he could end up getting his brain bashed in the NFL, leave the league in less than 3.5 years, (average length of an NFL career) and because of the mental health issues caused in the league... have his public service career cut short.

 

[RDU Irish]

Internship Opportunities Provide Irish Players With An Investment For Their Futures :: Notre Dame Football :: UND.COM :: The Official Site of Notre Dame Athletics

OK, so Elmer was a Congressional intern and is interested in politics. Maybe he should look around and see how independently wealthy folks sit in all of the most important positions. Earn a few million and you can really insulate yourself from lobbyists. Play on Sundays and you can lay the groundwork for a run for office after your playing days. Name recognition counts for a lot (which this presidential election should tell you more than anything). Work on the players union and get some good experience while building relationships with a boat load of billionaires who own the teams. Politics is connections and NFL can provide them in spades.

 

[RDU Irish]

Seriously, money IS power. Don't they teach that in poly-sci?

 

[woolybug25]

Seriously, money IS power. Don't they teach that in poly-sci?

Obama made less than $15k as a community organizer out of college. I think he did ok...

 

[RDU Irish]

Rubio and Obama are two examples that have something Elmer never will.

 

[Rack Em]

Obama made less than $15k as a community organizer out of college. I think he did ok...

That's a lot of money in Kenya

 

[RDU Irish]

Obama made less than $15k as a community organizer out of college. I think he did ok...

How did he pay for that house again? And I will agree he has done "OK" in the scope of climbing the political food chain, not an endorsement of any actual accomplishments (or lack thereof).

 

[Domina Nostra]

Obama made less than $15k as a community organizer out of college. I think he did ok...

And now, like many influential polititians, he's worth $12.2 million.

It all works out for our dedicated public servants who are just trying to make a difference!

 

[woolybug25]

How did he pay for that house again? And I will agree he has done "OK" in the scope of climbing the political food chain, not an endorsement of any actual accomplishments (or lack thereof).

You can spin it to your political agenda if you want, but it's just an example. Your idea of sacrificing years of someone's preferred calling for the all-might dollar might seem logical in your mind, but you're not in his shoes. Maybe he is passionate about something and wants to put everything he has into it. There is no reason to really go past that point. It's his life, not yours, and I doubt he feels your desire to watch him play football is more important than his desire to live the life he chooses as most fulfilling.

 

[Domina Nostra]

You can spin it to your political agenda if you want, but it's just an example. Your idea of sacrificing years of someone's preferred calling for the all-might dollar might seem logical in your mind, but you're not in his shoes. Maybe he is passionate about something and wants to put everything he has into it. There is no reason to really go past that point. It's his life, not yours, and I doubt he feels your desire to watch him play football is more important than his desire to live the life he chooses as most fulfilling.

He's also not sweating money on any level, so why pursue it in such a dnagerous fashion if he is not passionate about football?

 

[goldandblue]

That's a lot of money in Kenya

LMAO!!!!!

 

[Irish Insanity]

So, future ND Man, or no?

 

[koonja]

So, future ND Man, or no?

I don't see it either way, personally, but if he skips his senior year of football, definitely no for me. He's going to be a 3.5 year starter, but there's been many times where I've been frustrated with his play along the way.