Missouri Football Players to Strike

[yankeeND]

Here's what I know...

It seems like racial tensions have really escalated since Trayvon Martin. And it also seems that these protests and media coverage are having a negative effect on race relations. I feel that whites are becoming resentful towards blacks. Blacks are getting more aggressive and many whites are afraid to speak their mind so anger is building up within them.

I'm worried it's going to culminate in some serious violence. Both sides need to calm down.

I think that this is well said. I also think that wooly said it best that people are trying to combat racism with more racism. It's not working. I honestly do not know the solution, but something has got to give. I am not okay with the idea of forcing "white privilege" classes on students or anyone that is uncomfortable with them. I am also not okay with racial slurs or racial activities either. The problem is that if one person is involved in racial activity, some are wanting to punish all for the act. It's the same type of injustice that one group is encountering, yet they are turning around and doing the same thing to try and force change. I hope someday that society can get past all of this, but instead of working together, resentment, fear, and the unwillingness to try and understand one another continues.

 

[pkt77242]

What is the connection between being Christian and being a slaveowner/racist? It seems to me that being white was the common theme, and being Christian was just coincidental to being white. I don't know that the church advocated slavery, but maybe I'm wrong.

Christianity was used to condone slavery (basically the argument was that the Bible said it was ok). Now not all Christians or Church's said it was ok, but a disproportionate number in the South were ok with it. Now in the North it was the opposite, they tried to use the Bible to say that slavery was wrong.

https://historyengine.richmond.edu/episodes/view/3535

 

[yankeehater]

Michael Sam released a statement and said he never encountered racism while at Mizzou.

I am pretty sure 99.9% of the other minority students can say the same.

 

[Bluto]

What is the connection between being Christian and being a slaveowner/racist? It seems to me that being white was the common theme, and being Christian was just coincidental to being white. I don't know that the church advocated slavery, but maybe I'm wrong.

The entire concept of white racial superiority traces its roots back to the Calvanist idea of preordination. So there you have it.

 

[Bluto]

I am pretty sure 99.9% of the other minority students can say the same.

Doubt it.

 

[yankeehater]

Doubt it.

Really? There were what two reported incidents from what I read.

 

[Cackalacky]

What is the connection between being Christian and being a slaveowner/racist? It seems to me that being white was the common theme, and being Christian was just coincidental to being white. I don't know that the church advocated slavery, but maybe I'm wrong.

Ok.... Long story short Slavery has long been justifiable using scripture in the Bible. Many countries with various forms of Christianity have taken part in the slave trade for hundreds of years. Obviously this is not unique to Christians globally. But considering in this country Christianity has dominated its history they also used the Bible and religious liberty arguments to justify slavery then Jim Crow laws and also segregation. In the south prior to about 1820 Catholics were the primary Christian group. Protestant pushed out the Catholics via discrimination and persecution so the by the time the civil war started the south was strictly Protestant Christian. I treat Catholics and Christians separate... Maybe that is one thing I have not made clear? Protestant Christians from the south and punting the mid early 1830s the entire country have fought tooth and nail against black equality.

Further my point is also the white Protestants are the majority in the country and were also the majority in the states that fought to keep slavery. While some may say the north was equally white and equally Christian those Christians interpreted the Bible differently but also held more progressive positions on human rights.

Lastly my post a few up was basically saying that I am surprised that so many of the people who claim their religious freedom is being stifled and harassed by an increasing secular majority cannot seem to commiserate or identify politically via means and methods of another minority being stifled and harassed by a majority.

 

[kmoose]

I would love to know when in the history of this country Christians were lynched, sold as property, treated like farm animals, worked to death, castrated, or any of the other heinous acts committed against blacks in this country.

My Irish Catholic ancestors who built the railroads....

 

[NDgradstudent]

I believe the demands were issued in response to the perceived lack of appropriate response on the part of the President to a number of incidents that occurred in a short period of time that collectively left the black students on campus to feel that they weren't valued by the rest of the community.

What should the President have done? Rearranged the feces swastika into a heart? What? No specifics were given until the list of demands was produced. We know what the protesters/football team think he should have done: installed a 10% black quota on faculty and staff hires by 2017. I wonder if the football team would accept an 80% white quota for their team (to align with MO's demographics)?

The only way to satisfy the protesters/football team would have been to install, in that case, an unconstitutional policy.

For a group of intelligent people, there is a startling lack of self awareness in how many here react to these types of stories, and an equally startling amount of anger and animus directed at people who look, act or think differently than most of the people on this board.

I can only speak for myself. People in Madagascar "look, act and think" differently from most of the people on this board, but I have no problem with them. I have a problem with anybody -white, black, whatever- who demands mandatory white guilt classes and crazy racial quotas in hiring.

Remember, the 10% black quota means passing over qualified candidates and dismissing good employees. How about the experiences of people who are screwed by this quota?

What? Just because a black person was elected President of the student body doesn't mean that the campus doesn't have a problem with racism. That is just a stupid argument.

People here are arguing that Mizzou is "particularly" racist, but that is complicated this fact. It is definitely relevant. 1920s Mississippi was not electing a black Governor.

 

[pkt77242]

I am pretty sure 99.9% of the other minority students can say the same.

LOL. It is not shocking that a star football player wouldn't experience racism. It has nothing to do with the experience of the average minority on campus.

 

[Bluto]

I think that this is well said. I also think that wooly said it best that people are trying to combat racism with more racism. It's not working. I honestly do not know the solution, but something has got to give. I am not okay with the idea of forcing "white privilege" classes on students or anyone that is uncomfortable with them. I am also not okay with racial slurs or racial activities either. The problem is that if one person is involved in racial activity, some are wanting to punish all for the act. It's the same type of injustice that one group is encountering, yet they are turning around and doing the same thing to try and force change. I hope someday that society can get past all of this, but instead of working together, resentment, fear, and the unwillingness to try and understand one another continues.

So, college students shouldn't have their world view challenged while in school?

 

[gkIrish]

Christianity was used to condone slavery (basically the argument was that the Bible said it was ok). Now not all Christians or Church's said it was ok, but a disproportionate number in the South were ok with it. Now in the North it was the opposite, they tried to use the Bible to say that slavery was wrong.

https://historyengine.richmond.edu/episodes/view/3535

It seems to me that racists used religion rather than religion making people racist.

In other words, I don't know that people went into church racist-free one Sunday and left hating blacks. I think it's much more likely that people were racist and used religion to justify it.

 

[GoIrish41]

Really? There were what two reported incidents from what I read.

Do you think every instance of racism is reported?

 

[pkt77242]

What should the President have done? Rearranged the feces swastika into a heart? What? No specifics were given until the list of crazy demands was produced. We know what the protesters/football team think he should have done: installed a 10% black quota on faculty and staff hires by 2017. I wonder if the football team would accept an 80% white quota for their team (to align with MO's demographics)?

The only way to satisfy the protesters/football team would have been to install, in that case, an unconstitutional policy.



I can only speak for myself. People in Madagascar "look, act and think" differently from most of the people on this board, but I have no problem with them. I have a problem with anybody -white, black, whatever- who demands mandatory white guilt classes and crazy racial quotas in hiring.

Remember, the 10% black quota means passing over qualified candidates and dismissing good employees. How about the experiences of people who are screwed by this quota?



People here are arguing that Mizzou is "particularly" racist, but that is complicated this fact. It is definitely relevant.

Nope. 20% of the campus could still be racist and he could be elected President of the student government (not saying that it is 20%, just using a number for emphasis). It has nothing to do with the level of racism on campus. It is a horrible argument.

 

[gkIrish]

Ok.... Long story short Slavery has long been justifiable using scripture in the Bible. Many countries with various forms of Christianity have taken part in the slave trade for hundreds of years. Obviously this is not unique to Christians globally. But considering in this country Christianity has dominated its history they also used the Bible and religious liberty arguments to justify slavery then Jim Crow laws and also segregation. In the south prior to about 1820 Catholics were the primary Christian group. Protestant pushed out the Catholics via discrimination and persecution so the by the time the civil war started the south was strictly Protestant Christian. I treat Catholics and Christians separate... Maybe that is one thing I have not made clear? Protestant Christians from the south and punting the mid early 1830s the entire country have fought tooth and nail against black equality.

Further my point is also the white Protestants are the majority in the country and were also the majority in the states that fought to keep slavery. While some may say the north was equally white and equally Christian those Christians interpreted the Bible differently but also held more progressive positions on human rights.

Lastly my post a few up was basically saying that I am surprised that so many of the people who claim their religious freedom is being stifled and harassed by an increasing secular majority cannot seem to commiserate or identify politically via means and methods of another minority being stifled and harassed by a majority.

Fair. I guess I was raised Orthodox and the Greek Orthodox were enslaved for hundreds of years by the Ottoman Empire so I get a bit annoyed when people lump Christians together like they are all the same.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Christianity was used to condone slavery (basically the argument was that the Bible said it was ok). Now not all Christians or Church's said it was ok, but a disproportionate number in the South were ok with it. Now in the North it was the opposite, they tried to use the Bible to say that slavery was wrong.

https://historyengine.richmond.edu/episodes/view/3535

Actually the Apostle Paul in his letter to Philemon alluded to the fact that slavery was wrong.

Christianity didn't condone slavery. What Christianity stated then was that if you were a slave, then be the best slave you could be. Furthermore, many Christians were slaves in Biblical times - hence the "be the best slave you can be" philosophy. Much like today, even though many Christians disagree with the policies of our current president, we also have an obligation to pray for our leaders.

 

[Bluto]

My Irish Catholic ancestors who built the railroads....

Not even close to being and apples to apples comparison. The Irish were allowed to fully participate in society and often times used violence as a means to that end. Which is kind of ironic considering how many now sit here and wag their fingers at black folks every chance they get when our Irish ancestors engaged in the same types of civil disobedience and supposedly "diplorable" behavior as well as much more overt violent acts to achieve social and political gains.

 

[NDgradstudent]

Nope. 20% of the campus could still be racist and he could be elected President of the student government (not saying that it is 20%, just using a number for emphasis). It has nothing to do with the level of racism on campus. It is a horrible argument.

Ok, so what should be done with the 20%? Should they be expelled?

 

[pkt77242]

It seems to me that racists used religion rather than religion making people racist.

In other words, I don't know that people went into church racist-free one Sunday and left hating blacks. I think it's much more likely that people were racist and used religion to justify it.

While in one sense you are correct, that people used religion as a justification, I would say that it was the general culture of the South, (religion, social, family environment, schooling, etc.). Religion was definitely a part of it though. The Presbyterian church split partly because of the slavery issue and people like James Henley Thornwell. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Henley_Thornwell

 

[Bluto]

Really? There were what two reported incidents from what I read.

Yes really. I hear all kinds of dipshit racist crap all the time and I'm a white collar professional in California.

 

[woolybug25]

So there were essentially two big issues, one student claimed to be called a slur by an unknown person and somebody else supposedly foumd a swastica made out of human shite. Was there actual proof of either of these actually happening? Who was Wolfe supposed to punish? What rules was he supposed to change to make it not happen again?

Social media and idealistic kids wanting anarchy is what this is about. Not racism. These people are taking a couple isolated incidents (which... Hell, I'll say it.. I don't believe actually happened) and ruined a man's life and caused massive costs to the university.

The entire thing is an unfortunate sham, imo.

 

[Cackalacky]

Fair. I guess I was raised Orthodox and the Greek Orthodox were enslaved for hundreds of years by the Ottoman Empire so I get a bit annoyed when people lump Christians together like they are all the same.

Yeah I get that for sure. I use Christians to describe the multitude of American Protestant sects that arose in the south post Catholcism. I should do better to clarify that. I also tried to emphasize I was talking about this country and its majority, which are white Protestants., who are currently on the politcal warpath to fight what they see as secular persecution and discrimination but yet can't see why a a group of people being called niggers to their faces in public does not warrant any sort of justifiable response.

ETA: I am fully aware all religions are persecuted and used to persecute others. I mean Bhuddists are attacking Muslims in SE Asia ...It is a majority vs minority's issue IMO.

 

[yankeeND]

So, college students shouldn't have their world view challenged while in school?

I don't recall ever saying that college students should not be challenged. I am saying that this should not be forced on anyone. As an elective, I would not argue it. This was proposed as a mandatory class. Hence my problem with it.

 

[Cackalacky]

Actually the Apostle Paul in his letter to Philemon alluded to the fact that slavery was wrong.

Christianity didn't condone slavery. What Christianity stated then was that if you were a slave, then be the best slave you could be. Furthermore, many Christians were slaves in Biblical times - hence the "be the best slave you can be" philosophy. Much like today, even though many Christians disagree with the policies of our current president, we also have an obligation to pray for our leaders.

That is some serious spin bro......

 

[pkt77242]

Actually the Apostle Paul in his letter to Philemon alluded to the fact that slavery was wrong.

Christianity didn't condone slavery. What Christianity stated then was that if you were a slave, then be the best slave you could be. Furthermore, many Christians were slaves in Biblical times - hence the "be the best slave you can be" philosophy. Much like today, even though many Christians disagree with the policies of our current president, we also have an obligation to pray for our leaders.

No, many Southern Christians used the Bible as evidence that slavery was good and right. I am not arguing that Bible actually says that (and I pointed out that the Bible was used both people who were pro-slavery and by abolitionists). The point is that Christians in the South used it for that purpose.

Also

They asked who could question the Word of God when it said, "slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling" (Ephesians 6:5), or "tell slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect" (Titus 2:9).

How the Bible was used to justify slavery, abolitionism – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs

ETA: From what I have read about Paul is that there is disagreement about whether he supported slavery or sought to undermine it. I will say though that I haven't read any books on it in the past few years so opinions could have changed.

 

[Cackalacky]

No, many Southern Christians used the Bible as evidence that slavery was good and right. I am not arguing that Bible actually says that (and I pointed out that the Bible was used both people who were pro-slavery and by abolitionists). The point is that Christians in the South used it for that purpose.

Also


How the Bible was used to justify slavery, abolitionism – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs

ETA: From what I have read about Paul is that there is disagreement about whether he supported slavery or sought to undermine it. I will say though that I haven't read any books on it in the past few years so opinions could have changed.

John C Calhoun wrote whole books on biblically supported slavery. I've read some of them. It's amazing.

 

[woolybug25]

Yeah I get that for sure. I use Christians to describe the multitude of American Protestant sects that arose in the south post Catholcism. I should do better to clarify that. I also tried to emphasize I was talking about this country and its majority, which are white Protestants., who are currently on the politcal warpath the fight what they see as secular persecution and discrimination but yet can't see why a a group of people being called niggers to their faces in public does not warrant any sort of justifiable response.

But in this scenario, one person "supposedly" was called a N*****. Not a group. Then a man, that had no part in the "supposed" slur lost his job for not being able to completely turn the university upside down over it. Do people realize how many crazy complaints come into a university? Do these actions justify what is happening?

This entire situation is manufactured, imo. That's what is infuriating to me.

 

[T Town Tommy]

That is some serious spin bro......

Read and study the Bible bro. It's not that hard.

 

[Cackalacky]

But in this scenario, one person "supposedly" was called a N*****. Not a group. Then a man, that had no part in the "supposed" slur lost his job for not being able to completely turn the university upside down over it. Do people realize how many crazy complaints come into a university? Do these actions justify what is happening?

This entire situation is manufactured, imo. That's what is infuriating to me.

I don't think it was just those two issues though. I think there were more and I think the Ferguson issue has really echoed through that state. I need to find an article I read recently.

 

[T Town Tommy]

No, many Southern Christians used the Bible as evidence that slavery was good and right. I am not arguing that Bible actually says that (and I pointed out that the Bible was used both people who were pro-slavery and by abolitionists). The point is that Christians in the South used it for that purpose.

Also


How the Bible was used to justify slavery, abolitionism – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs

ETA: From what I have read about Paul is that there is disagreement about whether he supported slavery or sought to undermine it. I will say though that I haven't read any books on it in the past few years so opinions could have changed.

Absolutely some used the Bible to justify slavery. And the Bible has been used to justify many other things as well. And yes, plenty of churches in the South used the Bible as well to justify slavery. And many Northerners used the bible to speak out on slavery. And many Northerners were not anti slavery either.

And there are plenty of arguments pro and con for what Paul said about slavery. The modern day belief on Paul's writings to free his slave friend is used by many to speak out on slavery. Granted Paul did not demand Philemon to let his slave friend go... that would have went against what his belief of being a good slave means.

Paul himself spoke many times of being a slave. He was incarcerated, beaten, and on and on for his teachings. Paul even went as far as calling himself a slave for Christ. I think Paul knew full well the meaning of being a slave.