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GoldenDome

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-wiki stuff for reference

The historical origination of smoking was used for preservation. Primarily today it is used for flavor. Curing is the drying and or salt portion of the process. Again, smoking is totally unnecessary for meat that will be eaten immediately.


And when you say unnecessary, you mean functional to the preservation process? Then I would agree. I don't think people are smoking meats these days to preserve meat.

I would argue that modern bbq and smoking is a cooking process and the one you are describing is a preserving process.

I would also say that smoking is necessary for my taste buds, as such is the case with bacon, ribs, and brisket.
 

wizards8507

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I would also say that smoking is necessary for my taste buds, as such is the case with bacon, ribs, and brisket.
Exactly. I don't need to beer-batter, deep-fry, and drown a piece of fish in malt vinegar for it to be safe for consumption, but it's friggin' delicious.
 

ACamp1900

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As I get older I find I like fried foods less and less... marrying a Filipino girl made eating fish a requirement and it really opened me up seafood whereas my only prior enjoyment was fried shrimp and fish n chips... I now can't eat fish n chips as all I taste is the oil... I'm getting this way with chicken too, basic example I'll take grilled chicken from El Polo Loco over KFC now, where I would have never thought that in my youth... I will say I love malt vinegar though, I'll throw that stuff on fries anytime, no fish needed.
 

wizards8507

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I now can't eat fish n chips as all I taste is the oil...
If that's the case, the fish is being fried improperly, likely at too low of a temperature. Food fried between 350 and 375 will not absorb any of the oil. It'll still have some residual oil on it from whatever doesn't drip off, but shouldn't taste like it.

I'm getting this way with chicken too, basic example I'll take grilled chicken from El Polo Loco over KFC now, where I would have never thought that in my youth... I will say I love malt vinegar though, I'll throw that stuff on fries anytime, no fish needed.
I can't do KFC either, mostly because it's always soggy and way too salty. We have a local fried chicken place that's absolutely amazing though. No greasy flavor at all, and wonderfully crispy.

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650x366
 

GoldenDome

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Here is my unnecessary smoking of a brisket for immediate consumption, no preserving needed. Since I own a refrigerator I skipped the preserving process, personal preference though.

2iqifwo.jpg
 

GoldenDome

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As I get older I find I like fried foods less and less... marrying a Filipino girl made eating fish a requirement and it really opened me up seafood whereas my only prior enjoyment was fried shrimp and fish n chips... I now can't eat fish n chips as all I taste is the oil... I'm getting this way with chicken too, basic example I'll take grilled chicken from El Polo Loco over KFC now, where I would have never thought that in my youth... I will say I love malt vinegar though, I'll throw that stuff on fries anytime, no fish needed.

Fried chicken worth eating. Locations such though but will drive for food. lol

Howlin' Ray's | Hot Chicken in LA
 

ACamp1900

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Don't get me wrong there are spots with good fried chicken and such, I just used KFC/ EPL as a known example... eve when I go to the good spots, over the last year or two, I find I just don't enjoy the fried foods like I used to...
 

Irish Insanity

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I've never been a fish fan. The once or twice a year fish and chips but that's it. I like shrimp, crab, lobster, scallops, but I just can't do fish.
 
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Cackalacky

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Here is my unnecessary smoking of a brisket for immediate consumption, no preserving needed. Since I own a refrigerator I skipped the preserving process, personal preference though.

2iqifwo.jpg

I hope you enjoy all those unnecessary preservatives and carcinogens you created by doing that. I know your body does. NOT!

tumblr_nd8hf7lMgi1qhbw13o1_500.gif
 

ACamp1900

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I've never been a fish fan. The once or twice a year fish and chips but that's it. I like shrimp, crab, lobster, scallops, but I just can't do fish.

This is where I was at... but she also grew up a military brat living in Japan for many years so yeah... to make her happy I would take her to sushi joints and random seafood houses... one day I just said, 'screw it, I'm game today, I'll have what she's having'... been a different world ever since.... love all that stuff now.
 

ACamp1900

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13-03-20-baja-007.jpg


Here is my idea of good fried fish now... Until recently i would have never touched this with a ten foot pole... it was all just a mental block tho because this stuff here is delicious, basically fish fajitas.
 

peoriairish

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I hope you enjoy all those unnecessary preservatives and carcinogens you created by doing that. I know your body does. NOT!

tumblr_nd8hf7lMgi1qhbw13o1_500.gif

You really can't be serious.... you have to be trolling.

How would you achieve the delicious taste of a brisket, pulled pork, smoked chicken, etc without smoking it. It's brisket for fvck's sake... who doesn't love a well cooked, pull apart, brisket!
 

wizards8507

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You really can't be serious.... you have to be trolling.

How would you achieve the delicious taste of a brisket, pulled pork, smoked chicken, etc without smoking it. It's brisket for fvck's sake... who doesn't love a well cooked, pull apart, brisket!
Cack would prefer steamed rubber brisket flavored with liquid smoke.
 
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Cackalacky

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You really can't be serious.... you have to be trolling.

How would you achieve the delicious taste of a brisket, pulled pork, smoked chicken, etc without smoking it. It's brisket for fvck's sake... who doesn't love a well cooked, pull apart, brisket!

I am serious. I am also a total foodie. I love food. I love preparing it in various ways using various cultural methods. I love creating sauces. I love flavor profiles. I love the process of flavor extraction and the truth is IMO that smoking tough cuts of meat is not that great a method of cooking. That is just an opinion and I hate you think I might be trolling. Can it taste good? Sure. Is it my favorite? No way. You can use a hand held smoker to impart smoke flavor in a matter of minutes to any cut of meat. You don't need to waste thousands of dollars on a grill just to add preservatives to your meat. Just my opinion from someone who spent ten years working in a great culinary scene here in Charleston. I learned from several CIA and Johnson and Wales chefs. I worked in many types of kitchens from low end sandwich shops to a five star kitchen on Kiawah.

But I must be trolling because I think what I laid out above in several posts.....
 
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wizards8507

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I am serious. I am also a total foodie. I love food. I love preparing it in various ways using various cultural methods. I love creating sauces. I love flavor profiles. I love the process of flavor extraction and the truth is IMO that smoking tough cuts of meat is not that great a method of cooking. That is just an opinion and I hate you think I might be trolling. Can it taste good? Sure. Is it my favorite? No way. You can use a hand held smoker to impart smoke flavor in a matter of minutes to any cut of meat. You don't need to waste thousands of dollars on a grill just to add preservatives to your meat. Just my opinion from someone who spent ten years working in a great culinary scene here in Charleston. I learned from several CIA and Johnson and Wales chefs. I worked in many types of kitchens from low end sandwich shops to a five star kitchen on Kiawah.

But I must be trolling because I think what I laid out above in several posts.....
Thousands of dollars? A very good smoker will run you about $300. I think you're misunderstanding how one of these smokers function. You mentioned earlier that the addition of wood chips is what creates the preservative effect. In a 16-hour pork butt smoke, I use about four fist-sized chunks of applewood and that's it. There's only woodsmoke for a small portion of the total cook time. The bulk of the process is essentially charcoal-fueled slow cooking.
 
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Cackalacky

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Thousands of dollars? A very good smoker will run you about $300. I think you're misunderstanding how one of these smokers function. You mentioned earlier that the addition of wood chips is what creates the preservative effect. In a 16-hour pork butt smoke, I use about four fist-sized chunks of applewood and that's it. There's only woodsmoke for a small portion of the total cook time. The bulk of the process is essentially charcoal-fueled slow cooking.

Why do you keep intentionally distorting what you think I know versus what I am typing that I know? Obviously the $1000 is hyperbole for emphasis and I quite clearly know how a stupid smoker works...damn...LOL Its so primitive, not rocket science.

But to your last sentence... that is my entire POINT about this! You can by a $50 hand held smoke gun and produce the same results in two minutes (minus that smoke ring that brings out the primitive animal brain emotional response). Damn man.. do you even read my posts before responding. This is infuriating.

Not only can you use that contraption to smoke wood chips but tobacco, tea, and any other combustible material to impart flavor to a piece of meat. FFS
 
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wizards8507

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Why do you keep intentionally distorting what you think I know versus what I am typing that I know?
Because you keep typing incorrect statements.

Obviously the $1000 is hyperbole for emphasis and I quite clearly know how a stupid smoker works...damn...LOL Its so primitive, not rocket science.
Yet you obviously don't. You keep talking about wood chips and ancient preservation techniques. None of those have anything to do with what Camp or I or anyone else here does when they smoke meat.

But to your last sentence... that is my entire POINT about this! You can by a $50 hand held smoke gun and produce the same results in two minutes...
No you can't. If you could, then whey doesn't anyone actually DO that? There are barbecue competitions and nobody wins them with a $50 hand held smoker and a crock pot. They win them with charcoal, hardwood, and big metal drums. The bark formed during barbecue cannot be faked. That kind of caramelization needs long cooking times and smoke-infused rubs.

Smoke particles stick to the goo and change its color. "Without smoke, bark usually becomes a dark mahogany red, depending on what is in the rub" says Blonder. "With smoke and enough time, it can be transformed into a licorice-black, shiny lacquer." That's why the bark on a pork shoulder or beef brisket can make your meal look like a meteor, but there is no carbon burned flavor. Burnt ends, the tasty candylike parts of brisket that aficionados fight over, aren't really burnt, they are just bite size cubes of beef covered in dark bark.

What Is Bark, And Why It Makes Us Howl For More

(minus that smoke ring that brings out the primitive animal brain emotional response).
Why is the primitive animal brain emotional response illegitimate? Every argument you're making can be applied to sex with a woman. You can get the same results by putting your penis in a rubber tube and the only reason you crave a flesh-and-blood human woman is to satisfy the primitive brain emotional response.
 
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Cackalacky

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Because you keep typing incorrect statements.
Nothing I have posted is factually incorrect.


Yet you obviously don't. You keep talking about wood chips and ancient preservation techniques. None of those have anything to do with what Camp or I or anyone else here does when they smoke meat.
Reading comprehension fail. Totally. Why we smoke meat now depends on its history of use. You do what you do because you want to, not becasue its makes sense.


No you can't. If you could, then whey doesn't anyone actually DO that? There are barbecue competitions and nobody wins them with a $50 hand held smoker and a crock pot. They win them with charcoal, hardwood, and big metal drums. The bark formed during barbecue cannot be faked. That kind of caramelization needs long cooking times and smoke-infused rubs.
]
Yes you can. I have one and do all kinds of cool things with meat in a matter of minutes. I don't cook truck loads of bbq nor do I need to.

So what... the end result is a bunch of slow cooked meat with various flavors. There are competitions for all kinds of stuff. They still dry rubbed, wet mopped and a little additional wood flavor in the top 1/16" of skin. LOL. I can't help that many americans love to wait 16 hours for fatty, poor quality cuts of meats covered in "sauce". They also love McDonald's. Does not make their food good or prepared any better.


What Is Bark, And Why It Makes Us Howl For More


Why is the primitive animal brain emotional response illegitimate? Every argument you're making can be applied to sex with a woman. You can get the same results by putting your penis in a rubber tube and the only reason you crave a flesh-and-blood human woman is to satisfy the primitive brain emotional response.

I did not say its illegitimate but it is irrational. I have only made one argument. Smoked meat is dumb with lots of extra effort and very little payoff. That has nothing to do with having sex with a rubber tube. Gross...
 

wizards8507

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Cack challenge: I made these pork butts on July 4th. I challenge you to replicate this using to following criteria:

1. Two bone-in pork butts weighing 7 to 9 lbs
2. Cooked to an internal temperature of 200 degrees
3. Pull-apart tender with nothing but barbecue mitts (no knives)
4. Appearance and caramelization similar to what is pictured

 

ACamp1900

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question wiz... one of two reasons I 'upgraded' to my custom smoker was the amount of space in my old pbc smoker couldn't accommodate large meals (we already discussed how my pbc just didn't hold temps long enough)... like a couple racks of ribs, and some game hen... there just wasn't enough room... don't you come across the same issue? or do you never really smoke that much meat at one time?
 
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Cackalacky

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Cack challenge: I made these pork butts on July 4th. I challenge you to replicate this using to following criteria:

1. Two bone-in pork butts weighing 7 to 9 lbs
2. Cooked to an internal temperature of 200 degrees
3. Pull-apart tender with nothing but barbecue mitts (no knives)
4. Appearance and caramelization similar to what is pictured

I can do that a terracotta pot with an electric hot plate. lol.
 

wizards8507

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question wiz... one of two reasons I 'upgraded' to my custom smoker was the amount of space in my old pbc smoker couldn't accommodate large meals (we already discussed how my pbc just didn't hold temps long enough)... like a couple racks of ribs, and some game hen... there just wasn't enough room... don't you come across the same issue? or do you never really smoke that much meat at one time?
I haven't, but I think I could. The WSM has both a top and bottom "shelf." Each level holds about two butts, three whole chickens, three or four racks of ribs. The pictures below aren't mine, but they'll give you an idea.

321spareribs6.jpg


18chicken1.jpg


18chicken2.jpg


18ribs2.jpg


So if I'm using both shelves, I'd have no trouble doing three chickens and four racks of ribs at the same time.
 

ACamp1900

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interesting... my cheapo pbc obviously just came with reg racks... I'm still happy with my current setup tho, but good to know
 

GoldenDome

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question wiz... one of two reasons I 'upgraded' to my custom smoker was the amount of space in my old pbc smoker couldn't accommodate large meals (we already discussed how my pbc just didn't hold temps long enough)... like a couple racks of ribs, and some game hen... there just wasn't enough room... don't you come across the same issue? or do you never really smoke that much meat at one time?

Pretty sure PBC smokers hang ribs vertically so you can smoke like 8 racks in one smoke. Does your PBC have hooks for the meat?

Maybe your model differs but ones I've seen come with two powder coated rebar which act as temperature regulators and mounts where you hang the meat from.

 

wizards8507

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interesting... my cheapo pbc obviously just came with reg racks... I'm still happy with my current setup tho, but good to know
My understanding of the PBC is that there's nothing in between the heat source and the food. That's why it's hard to control the temperature. The WSM has a large bowl filled with water in the middle of the cylinder that acts as a heat sink. That allows a rack to be placed low in the smoker without overheating from being that close to the charcoal. It's actually slightly cooler on the lower rack than it is in the dome lid because it's behind the "shield" of the water pan.

1000947_077924081576_A_400.jpg
 

ACamp1900

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mine had/has the water bowl... I now use that same bowl in my custom setup...
 

Irish Insanity

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mine had/has the water bowl... I now use that same bowl in my custom setup...
I'm pretty sure you had an ECB not a PBC. ECB (El cheapo Brinkman) are very thin metal. It is a drum style. But smaller than the PBC and a lot cheaper. The PBC is $300, it powder coated. Has no opening doors anywhere. And has no ability, without modifying it yourself, for a water bowl.
 

ACamp1900

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Must just be a lack of BBQ interest in cali then, because I have never seen, anywhere, lowes, bass pro shops, random community events... the type of smoker you are referring to... every barrel smoker available out here has a water tank in it... and a door... they vary in size, quality and price. More often than not, you see box or offset smokers out here though, barrels are pretty rare to begin with.
 
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