Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

[kmoose]

Let me put it this way.

1) There are zero teams in college football that have averaged 10 regular season wins over the past decade.
2) There is only one active coach in all of football that has an 83%+ (10 wins) winning percentage. That is Urban Meyer.
3) Only 17 coaches in the entire college football history have had an 83% winning percentage.

So your "floor" is pretty rare air, my friend.

Mediocrity lover...

 

[gkIrish]

My problem is we seem to have lost more games we shouldn't have then win games we shouldn't have.
If your coach is giving you an advantage, you should be winning those games. If we aren't, are we really gaining an advantage with our coach?

Ding Ding Ding.

Oklahoma? USC maybe once? Michigan St. once? LSU in the bowl. Those are the only ones that come to mind. And it's not like we were huge underdogs in any of those games.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Let me put it this way.

1) There are zero teams in college football that have averaged 10 regular season wins over the past decade.
2) There is only one active coach in all of football that has an 83%+ (10 wins) winning percentage. That is Urban Meyer.
3) Only 17 coaches in the entire college football history have had an 83% winning percentage.

So your "floor" is pretty rare air, my friend.

The last 5 years we should've averaged 10 wins.
2014 we won 8 games. We should've easily won 10. Louisville and Northwestern.
2013 we won 9. We shouldn't easily won 10. Pitt.
2012 we won 12
2011 we won 8. We should've easily won 10. UofM and USF.
2010 we won 8. We should've won 10. UofM and Tulsa.

 

[NDPhilly]

The last 5 years we should've averaged 10 wins.
2014 we won 8 games. We should've easily won 10. Louisville and Northwestern.
2013 we won 9. We shouldn't easily won 10. Pitt.
2012 we won 12
2011 we won 8. We should've easily won 10. UofM and USF.
2010 we won 8. We should've won 10. UofM and Tulsa.

2015 we won 2 games. We could have easily won 1. Virginia

It works both ways

 

[woolybug25]

The last 5 years we should've averaged 10 wins.
2014 we won 8 games. We should've easily won 10. Louisville and Northwestern.
2013 we won 9. We shouldn't easily won 10. Pitt.
2012 we won 12
2011 we won 8. We should've easily won 10. UofM and USF.
2010 we won 8. We should've won 10. UofM and Tulsa.

Lou Holtz only averaged 8.3 wins per season over his 11 season career.

In his finished his first 5 seasons with 9.2 wins per season.

In his last, he finished with 8.8 wins per season.

Would you have fired Lou Holtz? Again... your "floor" is pretty rare air...

 

[ulukinatme]

It's a miracle we won 8 games with Tommy in 2011 and 9 in 2013, and 8 again in 2010. Tommy could have dropped that game to Utah in 2010, as well as USC and Miami. You're failing to see that it could have been much worse, and it's probably more likely we could have dropped some of those games as oppose to winning some of the others.

 

[Grahambo]

Its almost like, rebuilding an entire football program stuck in 20 years of mediocrity is difficult or something.

 

[GoIrish41]

2015 we won 2 games. We could have easily won 1. Virginia

It works both ways

"Should have" and "could easily have" are not equivalent.

 

[Irish Insanity]

2015 we won 2 games. We could have easily won 1. Virginia

It works both ways

We should've easily won 2. We struggled in 1. My 'easily' wasn't referring to the score, but just the W. I didn't mean 'easily' as in comfortably, I meant it as the teams I listed we lost to should've been the minimum number of our L's that should've been W's.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Lou Holtz only averaged 8.3 wins per season over his 11 season career.

In his finished his first 5 seasons with 9.2 wins per season.

In his last, he finished with 8.8 wins per season.

Would you have fired Lou Holtz? Again... your "floor" is pretty rare air...

I never discussed years ago with Holtz. You did. I provided the previous 5 years of our results, and specifically listed the games we should've won to put us above a 10 win average. Talk about moving the goal posts. And when the fuck did I call for anyone's firing. Hell when did anyone. They didn't. But that narrative seems to be pushed a few times in this thread, and not by the people offering criticism of the program/coach.

 

[woolybug25]

I never discussed years ago with Holtz. You did. I provided the previous 5 years of our results, and specifically listed the games we should've won to put us above a 10 win average. Talk about moving the goal posts.

Okay.... I never said that you did compare anything. In fact, I did the opposite. I am the one that gave the comparison. Not sure what your problem is, but I simply gave you a simple example of what you gave me as a "floor" for success.

Don't get mad at me when I show you that Holtz didn't live up to your standards for any ND coach to meet expectations. I didn't put words in your mouth.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Ha. Some things are just a waste of energy.
I've never stated any standards for Holtz, nor brought up his time here.

 

[woolybug25]

Ha. Some things are just a waste of energy.

I suppose they are... I'm not sure anyone has gotten what your actual point is...

Why do you keep saying that "you didn't bring up Holtz". Not a single person accused you of that. Not one.

I... Me... Wooly, here.... I gave Holtz as an example when you said a 5 year sample size should have 10 wins. I gave him as an example of someone that didn't meet your standard. He was a pretty damn good coach, so I thought it was a relevant example of your standard being a little off base.

 

[Irish Insanity]

I suppose they are... I'm not sure anyone has gotten what your actual point is...

Insults, I've come to expect no less.

 

[woolybug25]

Insults, I've come to expect no less.

That's not an insult, it's the truth. I'm not sure what your actual point is. I didn't call you a name. I didn't say your point wasn't valid. I simply said that I don't understand it. If that's an insult, then life must be a harsh world. I don't get how you could say talking to us is a "waste of energy" but we are insulting you if we simply don't understand your rambling point.

No comment on my second point?

 

[Irish Insanity]

I suppose they are... I'm not sure anyone has gotten what your actual point is...

Why do you keep saying that "you didn't bring up Holtz". Not a single person accused you of that. Not one.

I... Me... Wooly, here.... I gave Holtz as an example when you said a 5 year sample size should have 10 wins. I gave him as an example of someone that didn't meet your standard. He was a pretty damn good coach, so I thought it was a relevant example of your standard being a little off base.

I would agree, if Holtz had anything to do with opinion. Or that era. Or that staff. Or those yearly schedules.

 

[Riddickulous]

It's a miracle we won 8 games with Tommy in 2011 and 9 in 2013, and 8 again in 2010. Tommy could have dropped that game to Utah in 2010, as well as USC and Miami. You're failing to see that it could have been much worse, and it's probably more likely we could have dropped some of those games as oppose to winning some of the others.

We beat Utah 28-3, beat USC despite 3 Tommy turnovers, and led Miami 30-3 at one point before they racked up a few TDs in garbage time. These are not good examples.

 

[MNIrishman]

People who watch NFL: Is there any chance we could continue the Coach Kelly tradition without Coach BK?

 

[Irish#1]

I'd like to hear some of the scheme heads opine about BVG's defense. I honestly can't tell you if it's good or bad.

I'll bet there are a few on here that wouldn't mind Bobby D right now. lol

 

[rocket66]

I'll bet there are a few on here that wouldn't mind Bobby D right now. lol

The week of a matchup with a triple option team? No thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dizzyphil]

I'll bet there are a few on here that wouldn't mind Bobby D right now. lol

Maybe Barry A ........

 

[DCirishfan]

The week of a matchup with a triple option team? No thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I was at navy game, van gorder Hearts blitzing tripple options.

 

[DCirishfan]

ND was about a 6 point favorite coming into this game pre-season. Then we demolished Texas, and the line was inflated. I told everyone that would listen that this would be a close game and the question would be whether ND could pull away late. Virginia had a top 10 or top 20 defense by all metrics.

So ND goes up 2 scores and heads into the 4th quarter without Malik. To that point, we were thoroughly dominating Virginia despite:
1. Having horrible passing execution from Zaire.
2. Having horrible red zone offense.
3. Virginia getting lucky as hell on one drive and solving their red zone woes.

ND wins this game by 3-4 scores with breaks going the right way. I see no evidence of coaching deficiency except for some play calling and the fact that our CBs seemingly can't cover mediocre skill players in man coverage.

I agree but our d is not acceptable at this point.

 

[ThePiombino]

I'll bet there are a few on here that wouldn't mind Bobby D right now. lol

I didn't mind his scheme. His recruiting philosophy and efforts, however...

 

[Dizzyphil]

I was at navy game, van gorder Hearts blitzing tripple options.

Blitzing Triple-Option is asking for disaster

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Originally Posted by IrishLax View Post

ND was about a 6 point favorite coming into this game pre-season. Then we demolished Texas, and the line was inflated. I told everyone that would listen that this would be a close game and the question would be whether ND could pull away late. Virginia had a top 10 or top 20 defense by all metrics.

So ND goes up 2 scores and heads into the 4th quarter without Malik. To that point, we were thoroughly dominating Virginia despite:
1. Having horrible passing execution from Zaire.
2. Having horrible red zone offense.
3. Virginia getting lucky as hell on one drive and solving their red zone woes.

ND wins this game by 3-4 scores with breaks going the right way. I see no evidence of coaching deficiency except for some play calling and the fact that our CBs seemingly can't cover mediocre skill players in man coverage.

UCLA rolled this team with a true freshman QB. You mentioned QB passing woes by Malik...Rosen was 28-35 with 351 YDS and 3 TDs. So your point is valid. The red zone offense was awful. Again valid point. Virginia getting "lucky" on a drives. Valid point.

BUT

These are points that keep popping up each time ND plays down to an opponent. I get that it's hard to get up for every game. It's hard to go on the road against a decent Power 5 program. No one is arguing that it's easy to win. But I'm tired of the inconsistency. Great teams, more often than not, will roll inferior teams. There are obvious outliers. But ND has a tendency for those "outliers" to be the norm. It's annoying. ND got up by two scores (Twice) in this game and still almost lost. That's the kind of thing that gets me riled up and I don't like the excuses because it's same old, same old for me.

 

[ulukinatme]

We beat Utah 28-3, beat USC despite 3 Tommy turnovers, and led Miami 30-3 at one point before they racked up a few TDs in garbage time. These are not good examples.

Maybe not Utah, but I think you're over-estimating the abilities of Tommy's backups in some of the others. Don't forget that Tommy was the best we could trot out on the field at the time. Hendrix couldn't move the ball at all at home in 2 quarters against USC in 2013, I doubt he would have done much better in 2010 in Southern Cal.

 

[woolybug25]

Originally Posted by IrishLax View Post



UCLA rolled this team with a true freshman QB. You mentioned QB passing woes by Malik...Rosen was 28-35 with 351 YDS and 3 TDs. So your point is valid. The red zone offense was awful. Again valid point. Virginia getting "lucky" on a drives. Valid point.

BUT

These are points that keep popping up each time ND plays down to an opponent. I get that it's hard to get up for every game. It's hard to go on the road against a decent Power 5 program. No one is arguing that it's easy to win. But I'm tired of the inconsistency. Great teams, more often than not, will roll inferior teams. There are obvious outliers. But ND has a tendency for those "outliers" to be the norm. It's annoying. ND got up by two scores (Twice) in this game and still almost lost. That's the kind of thing that gets me riled up and I don't like the excuses because it's same old, same old for me.

They didn't "roll" them. They were up 1 possession at the half and then only a late FG put them up by more than two possessions.

I don't get why everyone keeps acting like inconsistency is a Notre Dame problem. It happens across college football. Auburn almost lost to Jacksonville st. Last year, OSU lost to VT. This is big boy football and teams randomly get up against certain opponents.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Originally Posted by IrishLax View Post



UCLA rolled this team with a true freshman QB. You mentioned QB passing woes by Malik...Rosen was 28-35 with 351 YDS and 3 TDs. So your point is valid. The red zone offense was awful. Again valid point. Virginia getting "lucky" on a drives. Valid point.

BUT

These are points that keep popping up each time ND plays down to an opponent. I get that it's hard to get up for every game. It's hard to go on the road against a decent Power 5 program. No one is arguing that it's easy to win. But I'm tired of the inconsistency. Great teams, more often than not, will roll inferior teams. There are obvious outliers. But ND has a tendency for those "outliers" to be the norm. It's annoying. ND got up by two scores (Twice) in this game and still almost lost. That's the kind of thing that gets me riled up and I don't like the excuses because it's same old, same old for me.

Then every one that wants to conflate the outcome of two different games involving three different teams should stop.

The UCLA game was closer than the final.

Against UCLA Va., went to a lot of man coverage, (probably thinking the WR's weren't as good as they turned out to be, and the risk was not as great as the reward of screwing up a freshman quarterback; one who played a lot better than anyone anticipated.)

Against ND, Va., sat back on the routes, which made all of the difference in the world, not to mention kept Fuller to a low roar early. The only thing that ND could have done better was plan for that contingency, but no one saw that as happening; it appeared not to be in Va's chemistry, let alone Tenuta's!

I will be the first one to admit I never considered the defensive strategy the Hoos employed to even be a possibility, between their and Tenuta's past, and what they did in the Rose Bowl the week before!

 

[Blaise]

I don't think you can compare Kelly's reign with Holtz's or anyone pre 1995... If we refuse to allow Juco's and keep our high standards (We should stay the same).. Then no coach is going to have a Alabama run... 1 out of 4 years of playoff football sounds right and sure enough, Kelly has done that and without injuries would of been right there again this year