Duggar Family

[NDBoiler]

I have not heard one person said what the kid did was right. It is disgusting and he should have spent time in jail, but that does not mean you can't forgive him
It is about forgiveness, I am shocked fans of a Catholic University are having a tough time with understanding this term.

I'm most concerned about the psychological affect it would have on these girls. For all we know, he could be manipulating these girls, as is often the case with sexual predators, to make it seem like everything is hunky dorie, while they may be deeply scarred emotionally. The other side of the coin is that if you are truly a good Christian parent, you'd be thinking about the well being of these girls too and what would be best for them. Having someone who molested them still being present in their lives is extremely ignorant and would not be doing your duty as a parent in the eyes of God in my opinion. I'm Catholic, I go to church on Sunday's, and I serve in my community, and I'd be more than happy to say on Judgement Day that I would not make the same decision as a parent if these were my children.

 

[pkt77242]

I'm most concerned about the psychological affect it would have on these girls. For all we know, he could be manipulating these girls, as is often the case with sexual predators, to make it seem like everything is hunky dorie, while they may be deeply scarred emotionally. The other side of the coin is that if you are truly a good Christian parent, you'd be thinking about the well being of these girls too and what would be best for them. Having someone who molested them still being present in their lives is extremely ignorant and would not be doing your duty as a parent in the eyes of God in my opinion. I'm Catholic, I go to church on Sunday's, and I serve in my community, and I'd be more than happy to say on Judgement Day that I would not make the same decision as a parent if these were my children.

I would go a step further. To knowingly subject someone to their molester day after day is cruel, the parents should be thrown in jail. That shit should be (and probably is as it could be child endangerment) a crime.

 

[irishtrain]

Never heard of any of this family-is it some type of religious programing-notice I didn't say Christian. Help me out here I have no idea who these people are. Sounds like a bad movie.

 

[no.1IrishFan]

Isn't it awkward that some people believe a child molester who spends his life hurting children andcauses deep emotional and psychological damage can be really sorry for what he did, ask for forgiveness, and be straight with god, yet someone who has led a very moral life, helped others and been an upstanding person but was just raised to believe in another god will get sent to hell if they fail to convert? One thing should be perfectly clear, in the long run, Christianity is not about moral accountability.
(Paraphrasing Sam Harris in his debate with William Lane Craig at ND.)

 

[phork]

Never heard of any of this family-is it some type of religious programing-notice I didn't say Christian. Help me out here I have no idea who these people are. Sounds like a bad movie.

They were, up to this point, an upstanding family with deep religious beliefs. The mom turned into a clown car and piled out 19 kids and now the kids are having kids. It was a perfectly wholesome show about a family in Arkansas.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

They were, up to this point, an upstanding family with deep religious beliefs. The mom turned into a clown car and piled out 19 kids and now the kids are having kids. It was a perfectly wholesome show about a family in Arkansas.

There are many people who have argued that they are rather like a cult. That assertion pre-dates this revelation.

Some of the accusations are in this article.

Josh Duggar is horrible, but he also deserves some pity.

They forbid their children from exploring outside ideas and expression, carefully monitoring every word and image they are exposed to. They forbid them from wearing shorts. They homeschool them in order to indoctrinate them with backward beliefs. They refuse to let their adult daughters kiss or hold hands before marriage and demand to read every text between their daughters and their suitors. They adhere to a fringe Christian movement called the “Christian patriarchy,” which commands total female submission to men and limited education for women. The Duggars do everything they can to control their children’s minds, then brainwash them with misogynistic dogma.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Good article.

But I still believe a molester is a molester, therefore there is no recipe or excuse for their creation.

Since there is none of either, yes he was raised in an idiotic environment, but he still had choices.

And, unlike those who think sexual orientation, or perversion can be cured, I have never seen any valid proof. So, yes, once a molester, always a molester. He should be supervised with his own daughters. Period.

And I am about to really get upset if I hear anyone with the old "conflationary" argument that sexual orientation and perversion have any correlation whatsoever.

This is one of my issues with the Catholic church so it is just not fundamentalists. For a long time influential members of the Church have gone on the record claiming that homosexuals were nearly synonymous with pedophiles.

Again not true, and those that make such baseless claims are working to the advantage of true pedophiles.

Every one I have known or met seems to come off as a heterosexual. And if people believe this fiction, that opens a lot of pedophiles to unquestioned access to children.

 

[Fbolt]

I have seen time and time again where a person or family is, or rather seems, uber religious yet that religion is merely a mask for their true person. Similar to a poor guy buying an expensive car to pretend to others he has money. This family strikes me as that.

I'm not saying this is the truth, just my opinion.

Personally, I could give a rat's ass about this family. They have used their freakishness and religious convictions and perverted it into a money making venture. The molester can burn in front of me and I wouldn't piss on him to put the fire out.

 

[dublinirish]

Arkansas Police Destroy Josh Duggar's Offense Report

 

[phork]

Lol. A minor asked for the report to be destroyed.. A minor being Duggar's daughter most likely. So Papa Duggar via a judge put in by Huckabee, who are good friends with the Duggars, complies. As Huckabee says "boys will be boys".

I am thinking his run for the top spot is precariously parked on a ledge and is about to crash to earth.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Awesome. Reps, sir.

 

[dublinirish]

Lol. A minor asked for the report to be destroyed.. A minor being Duggar's daughter most likely. So Papa Duggar via a judge put in by Huckabee, who are good friends with the Duggars, complies. As Huckabee says "boys will be boys".

I am thinking his run for the top spot is precariously parked on a ledge and is about to crash to earth.

Get your popcorn ready america

 

[dales5050]

shocked at all the Duggar support here.

You're shocked that fans of a Catholic University are able to come to terms with child molesters? Hell, based on the hypocrisy of almost every devote Christian/Catholic I know....I am shocked that some are even admitting it happened.

FWIW, I was raised in the Catholic Church. Went to Catholic schools and was an alter boy. My views on Catholicism are not an outsiders perspective.

As for Evangelical Christians like this Duggars....they are about the only group of people who can make Scientologists look normal.

 

[wizards8507]

You're shocked that fans of a Catholic University are able to come to terms with child molesters? Hell, based on the hypocrisy of almost every devote Christian/Catholic I know....I am shocked that some are even admitting it happened.

GTFO with that. Can we get a neg bomb?

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[wizards8507]

This happened in 2006? And they went into the series years after it in the digital age? They had to know it would be likely to pop up.

It happened in 2002, when he was 14.

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[wizards8507]

There may not be a scale in the eyes of God, but I have a fucking scale and touching kids is at the top.

He was a kid himself. I have a hard time labeling a 14 year old "child molester."

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[wizards8507]

not buying the whole "it was when he was a teenager" thing either, he was 17 not 13

Incorrect. It was a 2006 report about a 2002 incident.

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[Domina Nostra]

This is one of the worst threads ever. It's like the Prince Shembo incident flipped upside down. "ND is a bunch of religious freaks who are showing thier true colors by covering up for the rape of a girl, driving her to suicide."

A 14 year old kid does something terrible: inappropriate touching of girls in his house (i.e., "sexual assualt"). He was 14. This is not one of those 20 year olds are kids arguments! He was 14. I knew kids that age who bullied relentlessly, killed animals for animals, burned stuff for entertainment, watched weird porn, and did lots of other weird crap. And while what the guy did was obviously, completely wrong, it is NOTHING like a 25 or 35 year old adult touching a child. He was 14! You punish juveniles with punishments appropriate for juveniles because they are NOT ADULTS!

In this case, his parents try to work it out and actually report their own son to the police (but apprently that's not good enough, because they were religious). Nothing whatsoever in their actions said that they thought his behavior was fine. NO one has ever communicated why their beliefs would foster this, unless you are supposed to believe that more sexual freedom for a 14 year olds is the answer.

So the conclusion is that religious people are weird and this shows thier true colors, as if their are not tons of sexual crimes in EVERY group. "But those groups don't pretend they are so good, and holy, and perfect!" Isn't that exactly what theis thread is? Showing how those who disagree with the Duggars are actually morally superior to them. Celebrating their fall, showing that they are no better than us?

NEWSFLASH: Not one single group on earth says that stealing is fine. You are never going to hear: "Its fine to steal, and that goes for my stuff too. If you can get anything while I'm not looking, well then shame on me!" But guess what, every group has thieves among them. From judges, to advocates for the poor, to the U.N., to the police, to bhuddist monks. Does that make every single group on Earth fundamentally hypocritical and self-righteous? Of course not. We have laws because their needs to be clear expectations for those who break them.

Publiclly tarring this man for something he did when he was 14 is just sad. How are his juvenile records even public?

 

[wizards8507]

How are the records even public?

I'm not sure they are. The broader purpose of this witch hunt is to reiterate to the public that "Republicans hate gays and may or may not be kiddie diddlers" heading into 2016.

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[dublinirish]

Quiverfull of Shit: a Guide to the Duggar's Scary Brand of Christianity

 

[woolybug25]

I'm not sure they are. The broader purpose of this witch hunt is to reiterate to the public that "Republicans hate gays and may or may not be kiddie diddlers" heading into 2016.

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Witch hunt? They expunged a public document (yes, there was a complaint issued and its corresponding report is public) right as the news breaks of the incident.

He may have been 14, but the girls in the Duggar family were between the ages of 4-12 years old. He sexually assaulted five girls by his own admittance of the accusations, one of which was a non family member. There were only 5 Duggar girls at the time. Do the math. That's not just a "kid making a mistake", that's a predator.

Not one person brought up politics but you, unsurprisingly.

Finally, the family didn't just offer up their son to the police like Nostra alludes. They sent him to a "religious training" facility which really was just a buddy of theirs that come to find out... Loves kiddie porn. I really don't understand what, or more importantly why, you guys are supporting here?

 

[phork]

It happened in 2002, when he was 14.

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When he was 14 and over the course of the next 3 years. Which makes him 17.

A 14 year old kid does something terrible: inappropriate touching of girls in his house (i.e., "sexual assualt"). He was 14. This is not one of those 20 year olds are kids arguments! He was 14. I knew kids that age who bullied relentlessly, killed animals for animals, burned stuff for entertainment, watched weird porn, and did lots of other weird crap. And while what the guy did was obviously, completely wrong, it is NOTHING like a 25 or 35 year old adult touching a child. He was 14! You punish juveniles with punishments appropriate for juveniles because they are NOT ADULTS!

Thats some seriously sick shit dood. Also touching is touching. You mean to tell me at 14 you didn't know what parts were what? Come on.

In this case, his parents try to work it out and actually report their own son to the police (but apprently that's not good enough, because they were religious). Nothing whatsoever in their actions said that they thought his behavior was fine. NO one has ever communicated why their beliefs would foster this, unless you are supposed to believe that more sexual freedom for a 14 year olds is the answer.

In this case they prayed about it for 9 months before telling anyone. And when they did send him to "get help" it was to a cop who is now serving 30 years for child porn.

The big issue here isn't that 14 year old boy is curious. Its the coverup from the parents and up. And now a judge and former governor are involved?

So the conclusion is that religious people are weird and this shows thier true colors, as if their are not tons of sexual crimes in EVERY group. "But those groups don't pretend they are so good, and holy, and perfect!" Isn't that exactly what theis thread is? Showing how those who disagree with the Duggars are actually morally superior to them. Celebrating their fall, showing that they are no better than us?

NEWSFLASH: Not one single group on earth says that stealing is fine. You are never going to hear: "Its fine to steal, and that goes for my stuff too. If you can get anything while I'm not looking, well then shame on me!" But guess what, every group has thieves among them. From judges, to advocates for the poor, to the U.N., to the police, to bhuddist monks. Does that make every single group on Earth fundamentally hypocritical and self-righteous? Of course not. We have laws because their needs to be clear expectations for those who break them.

Publiclly tarring this man for something he did when he was 14 is just sad. How are his juvenile records even public?

Freedom of information. If you read the story a letter was written by one of the family and stuck in a book. That book was later lent out or something and someone else found this letter. The police reports were heavily redacted as per juvenile rules but fill in the blanks.

I'm not sure they are. The broader purpose of this witch hunt is to reiterate to the public that "Republicans hate gays and may or may not be kiddie diddlers" heading into 2016.

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Oh yes, it all comes down to smashing the republicans. Not having 4 girls (atleast 4) being molested by a creep who acted solely on his own and then took cover behind his faith. I am not one of those who points out his religion and says they are all freak. But I absolutely find it disgusting when this crap happens and these people hide under the cloak of protection they call their faith.

 

[wizards8507]

Witch hunt? They expunged a public document (yes, there was a complaint issued and its corresponding report is public) right as the news breaks of the incident.

He may have been 14, but the girls in the Duggar family were between the ages of 4-12 years old. He sexually assaulted five girls by his own admittance of the accusations, one of which was a non family member. There were only 5 Duggar girls at the time. Do the math. That's not just a "kid making a mistake", that's a predator.

Not one person brought up politics but you, unsurprisingly.

Finally, the family didn't just offer up their son to the police like Nostra alludes. They sent him to a "religious training" facility which really was just a buddy of theirs that come to find out... Loves kiddie porn. I really don't understand what, or more importantly why, you guys are supporting here?

1. News broke years ago. Why is it being brought up now?

2. I'm not defending anything. I merely objected to the use of the term "child molestation." I didn't say it was good or okay, just that "child molester" carries connotations of a full grown adult preying on a child.

3. I didn't bring up politics. See the Slate.com article that Jayhawk linked before I posted a single thing in this thread.

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[wizards8507]

Oh yes, it all comes down to smashing the republicans. Not having 4 girls (atleast 4) being molested by a creep who acted solely on his own and then took cover behind his faith. I am not one of those who points out his religion and says they are all freak. But I absolutely find it disgusting when this crap happens and these people hide under the cloak of protection they call their faith.

If it's just the facts without a political agenda, there would be no need to bring up the FRC, Mike Huckabee, Rick Santorum, or LGBT equality. I'm not the one who brought those things up.

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[phork]

If it's just the facts without a political agenda, there would be no need to bring up the FRC, Mike Huckabee, Rick Santorum, or LGBT equality. I'm not the one who brought those things up.

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Err Huckabee was brought up because a judge HE installed allowed the destruction of the records. AND his "boys will be boys" defence of the Duggars. Rep or Dem it doesn't fly either way.

 

[pkt77242]

This is one of the worst threads ever. It's like the Prince Shembo incident flipped upside down. "ND is a bunch of religious freaks who are showing thier true colors by covering up for the rape of a girl, driving her to suicide."

A 14 year old kid does something terrible: inappropriate touching of girls in his house (i.e., "sexual assualt"). He was 14. This is not one of those 20 year olds are kids arguments! He was 14. I knew kids that age who bullied relentlessly, killed animals for animals, burned stuff for entertainment, watched weird porn, and did lots of other weird crap. And while what the guy did was obviously, completely wrong, it is NOTHING like a 25 or 35 year old adult touching a child. He was 14! You punish juveniles with punishments appropriate for juveniles because they are NOT ADULTS!

In this case, his parents try to work it out and actually report their own son to the police (but apprently that's not good enough, because they were religious). Nothing whatsoever in their actions said that they thought his behavior was fine. NO one has ever communicated why their beliefs would foster this, unless you are supposed to believe that more sexual freedom for a 14 year olds is the answer.

So the conclusion is that religious people are weird and this shows thier true colors, as if their are not tons of sexual crimes in EVERY group. "But those groups don't pretend they are so good, and holy, and perfect!" Isn't that exactly what theis thread is? Showing how those who disagree with the Duggars are actually morally superior to them. Celebrating their fall, showing that they are no better than us?

NEWSFLASH: Not one single group on earth says that stealing is fine. You are never going to hear: "Its fine to steal, and that goes for my stuff too. If you can get anything while I'm not looking, well then shame on me!" But guess what, every group has thieves among them. From judges, to advocates for the poor, to the U.N., to the police, to bhuddist monks. Does that make every single group on Earth fundamentally hypocritical and self-righteous? Of course not. We have laws because their needs to be clear expectations for those who break them.

Publiclly tarring this man for something he did when he was 14 is just sad. How are his juvenile records even public?

Look a 14yo should know better then to molest 4-5 girls, if he was 6, then lets have a conversation about not knowing right from wrong, but at 14 there is no excuse. Also are you really comparing watching weird porn, and burning things (as long as it isn't houses or people) to molesting a child?

Also his parents didn't turn him into the police, they turned him into a friend who happened to be a police officer (who himself like child porn), and the only reason it got investigated by the actual police was that a note was found in a book that was lent to someone else.

Here is the real kicker though, the parents kept him around his sisters whom he had molested after they knew about it. That is fucked up. What kind of harm did that do to the girls?

Also, I just saw that phork said it better then I could.

 

[wizards8507]

Err Huckabee was brought up because a judge HE installed allowed the destruction of the records. AND his "boys will be boys" defence of the Duggars. Rep or Dem it doesn't fly either way.

I don't mind that someone brought up Huckabee. I'm just saying spare me the crap about how politics doesn't have anything to do with how this is being covered because it obviously does.

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[woolybug25]

1. News broke years ago. Why is it being brought up now?

2. I'm not defending anything. I merely objected to the use of the term "child molestation." I didn't say it was good or okay, just that "child molester" carries connotations of a full grown adult preying on a child.

3. I didn't bring up politics. See the Slate.com article that Jayhawk linked before I posted a single thing in this thread.

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1) News didn't break years ago, wtf are you taking about? The news just broke on this and the family made no mention of it until now. Hell, they didn't even remove Josh from the house, under the same roof of his victims, for over 9 months after the incidents occurred.

2) It brought up Huckabee's involvement, which IE members didn't try to bring out of cold air to "potray republicans as kiddie diddlers". It was brought up because them expunging the records and Huckabee's open support on social media are a big part of the story. But please, continue to expand on your IE Thinks Repubs Are Peddies Conspiracy. That seems more plausible.

3) Maybe you should object to 5 kids getting assaulted before objecting to the terminology used to describe the incident. Btw, here's the definition of child molestation:

Child sexual abuse or child molestation is a form of child abuse in which an adult or older adolescent uses a child for sexual stimulation.

So you don't know what you're talking about again... Maybe you should sit this debate out.

 

[dublinirish]

the victims should have been granted professional counselling services after their abuse, denying them this is simply child abuse in itself and the parents should answer for this.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I brought up the Slate article to illustrate some of the non-mainstream Christian beliefs of the family. I wasn't attempting to bring a political bent to the topic.

The article also didn't imply that all Republicans think that gay people are child molesters. It does note that the Duggar family thinks that gay people are likely to be child molesters. That's pertinent.