Mike Elston DL Coach

[kmoose]

There have been rumors swirling about him getting replaced for awhile, and it basically all stems from the following conjecture:
1. He doesn't coach or recruit the DL well. Some of that can be attributed to Diaco and his scheme but the bottom line is he seems incapable of developing pass rushers. The repertoire of pass rushing moves displayed by our DL has always been really substandard.

Tuitt and Nix were pretty solid pass rushers.

2. He's not really value added in recruiting. There are a lot of DL coaches out there that are "aces" when it comes to recruiting, but with Elston you hear anecdotes about him being lackluster.

Maybe those anecdotes are specific to DL prospects? Because Rivals gives Elston credit for recruiting 8 guys in this 2015 class, including 4 of our 4* guys: Josh Barajas, Asmar Bilal, Shaun Crawford, Mykelti Williams

 

[kmoose]

this...but im not convinced in his answer...he seemed waaaay too specific in his answer which was a way to avoid the ?

the tweet of not going to ND was pretty cut and dry but when he responded to the ? he gave a specific answer I'm not going to coach ND def line...now he did go on to say that he was heading south but not to south bend....idk...i just get a feeling there is something there or this wouldn't have been leaked like it did...it got squashed but with the changes happening, revisiting the talks w/ BK could get that fire stoked again

He readily admitted that he and BK had a conversation. They are apparently friendly from long ago. Someone probably overheard that BK had a conversation about coaching with Hoke, and it just snowballed from there.

 

[koonja]

Tuitt and Nix were pretty solid pass rushers.



Maybe those anecdotes are specific to DL prospects? Because Rivals gives Elston credit for recruiting 8 guys in this 2015 class, including 4 of our 4* guys: Josh Barajas, Asmar Bilal, Shaun Crawford, Mykelti Williams

All of those fell into ND'S lap, though. Barajas had to contact Elston because Elston shit the bed and stopped recruiting him, Bilal was told get in or get out and at the time Michigan was doomed and he'd be committing to a staff that was about to be fired, Crawford wanted to be ND all along and it was only a matter of time once ND offered, Loy even called this the whole time he was committed to UM, and it's not like Mykelti Williams had a lot of other elite options.

 

[BigIrish]

All of those fell into ND'S lap, though. Barajas had to contact Elston because Elston shit the bed and stopped recruiting him, Bilal was told get in or get out and at the time Michigan was doomed and he'd be committing to a staff that was about to have the staff fired, Crawford wanted to be ND all along and it was only a matter of time once ND offered, Loy even called this the whole time he was committed to UM, and it's not like Mykelti Williams had a lot of other elite options.

I was just going to point this out. Being the lead recruiter on a player doesn't provide much of the recruitment story. As you point out, there are some kids we work a lot harder for than others. More simply put, even a blind squirrel collects a few nuts.

 

[IrishLax]

Tuitt and Nix were pretty solid pass rushers.

Tuitt, yes (though he regressed with injuries). Nix, no.

Maybe those anecdotes are specific to DL prospects? Because Rivals gives Elston credit for recruiting 8 guys in this 2015 class, including 4 of our 4* guys: Josh Barajas, Asmar Bilal, Shaun Crawford, Mykelti Williams

Not one of those guys was he actually instrumental in signing. He's given the easiest territory of anyone and -- per conjecture -- puts in little to no "legwork." 247, II, and ISD have all talked about this to different extents, in addition to in the 2016 class guys like Austin Mack talking about how they "don't hear from him enough."

 

[koonja]

Tuitt, yes (though he regressed with injuries). Nix, no.



Not one of those guys was he actually instrumental in signing. He's given the easiest territory of anyone and -- per conjecture -- puts in little to no "legwork." 247, II, and ISD have all talked about this to different extents, in addition to in the 2016 class guys like Austin Mack talking about how they "don't hear from him enough."

When you put it like that, I don't understand how he keeps the job. The Austin Mack story drives me nuts and it's happening as we speak. A great coach once said CFB is 80% recruiting. His name rhymed with Flu Spoltz.

 

[woolybug25]

He readily admitted that he and BK had a conversation. They are apparently friendly from long ago. Someone probably overheard that BK had a conversation about coaching with Hoke, and it just snowballed from there.

I know that was the prevailing story and the one BK gave, but I don't buy it. Seems pretty far fetched that a conversation from that long ago suddenly snowballed into the story. I think there was more to it. Like depending on how things shook out, Hoke would be interested, but only under certain scenarios that we had to see play out. Someone got word of that and suddenly it was out in the open. All BK and Hoke could do at that point was recall their original conversation about the topic and leave it at that.

You can't really tell reporters that you may or may not be interested in a gig depending on who leaves.

 

[kmoose]

I know that was the prevailing story and the one BK gave, but I don't buy it. Seems pretty far fetched that a conversation from that long ago suddenly snowballed into the story. I think there was more to it. Like depending on how things shook out, Hoke would be interested, but only under certain scenarios that we had to see play out. Someone got word of that and suddenly it was out in the open. All BK and Hoke could do at that point was recall their original conversation about the topic and leave it at that.

You can't really tell reporters that you may or may not be interested in a gig depending on who leaves.

It was the prevailing story because Hoke said as much, during CBS' coverage of NSD. And I got that it was a very recent conversation(watching it again, he called it a "discussion"), specifically regarding coaching at ND.

But here is Hoke on the ND rumors:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/IMBWfMaa4fQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[NewBrunswickIrish]

Quinn as a qb coach is very doubtful, he has NO experience as a qb coach...BK said the person would be very competent qb coach

A few people have said this but its not like BK hasn't had a QB coach before that never coached QBs. Chuck Martin had never even coached on the offensive side of the ball when he became the QB coach. I'm willing to bet that Quinn has a better idea of how to coach the position than Martin had then or even has now. BK was likely saying that to Wimbush to calm some of the concerns about a new coach. No coach will say that they are hiring someone who is incompetent or who has never coached the position.

 

[Luckylucci]

Per Irish 247 he's being moved to LB's coach.

 

[Johannes]

Per Irish 247 he's being moved to LB's coach.

Of which team?

 

[NewBrunswickIrish]

Per Irish 247 he's being moved to LB's coach.

So if Lyght is coming in to coach the secondary then is Elliot on his way out or is there other movement like switching a D coach to coach RBs instead of hiring an outside face and bringing in a new DL coach?

Seems like there has to be more staff shake up.

Like Lax and Balki had earlier, seems like another coach would have to be on their way out if Elston is moving.

HC: Brian Kelly
OC/WR: Mike Denbrock
DC/LB: BVG
QB: Jeff Quinn
RB: Autry Denson/other candidates
TE: Scott Booker
OL: Harry Hiestand
DL: Open
LB: Elston
CB: Todd Lyght

So Elliot seems to have to move to another position. I can't see anyone else on the staff taking over DL though right?

 

[IrishLax]

Per Irish 247 he's being moved to LB's coach.

What doesn't make sense here is that if this happens Elliot either has to be retiring or moving to safeties... either would make sense, especially move to safeties. If he moves to safeties and Lyght is coaching corners, and you bring in a RB coach and Quinn as a QB coach, then you're short a coach and no one is coaching the DL.

The alternative I guess would be that BVG coaches DL... or you reshuffle the offensive staff. There's not really a reason that TE must be coached separate from WRs but that's an awful lot to all put on Denbrock's plate in addition to being OC. Basically, Elston to LB means you have to have a shakeup in another spot too OR one of the three hires has to be off a little.

 

[NDdomer2]

VanGorder could go DC/DL. EDIT - Lax by a hair.

 

[koonja]

What doesn't make sense here is that if this happens Elliot either has to be retiring or moving to safeties... either would make sense, especially move to safeties. If he moves to safeties and Lyght is coaching corners, and you bring in a RB coach and Quinn as a QB coach, then you're short a coach and no one is coaching the DL.

The alternative I guess would be that BVG coaches DL... or you reshuffle the offensive staff. There's not really a reason that TE must be coached separate from WRs but that's an awful lot to all put on Denbrock's plate in addition to being OC. Basically, Elston to LB means you have to have a shakeup in another spot too OR one of the three hires has to be off a little.

We have room for another coach? I assumed not.

Losing Alford, cooks, Lafluer.

Gaining: Denson, Lyght, Quinn.

Sorry I'm confused.

 

[kmoose]

So if Lyght is coming in to coach the secondary then is Elliot on his way out or is there other movement like switching a D coach to coach RBs instead of hiring an outside face and bringing in a new DL coach?

Seems like there has to be more staff shake up.

Like Lax and Balki had earlier, seems like another coach would have to be on their way out if Elston is moving.

HC: Brian Kelly
OC/WR: Mike Denbrock
DC/LB: BVG
QB: Jeff Quinn
RB: Autry Denson/other candidates
TE: Scott Booker
OL: Harry Hiestand
DL: Open
LB: Elston
CB: Todd Lyght

So Elliot seems to have to move to another position. I can't see anyone else on the staff taking over DL though right?

Maybe VanGorder gives up LBs, and takes over DL?

 

[Luckylucci]

What doesn't make sense here is that if this happens Elliot either has to be retiring or moving to safeties... either would make sense, especially move to safeties. If he moves to safeties and Lyght is coaching corners, and you bring in a RB coach and Quinn as a QB coach, then you're short a coach and no one is coaching the DL.

The alternative I guess would be that BVG coaches DL... or you reshuffle the offensive staff. There's not really a reason that TE must be coached separate from WRs but that's an awful lot to all put on Denbrock's plate in addition to being OC. Basically, Elston to LB means you have to have a shakeup in another spot too OR one of the three hires has to be off a little.

In reality I don't even think Kelly knows yet. However, I think one of two guys could be on staff but not in a coaching capacity. Elliot or Quinn.

 

[NewBrunswickIrish]

Maybe VanGorder gives up LBs, and takes over DL?

I thought that too but going from being DC/MLB to DC/DL seems like a lot more work though doesn't it?

If Elston is taking over all of the Linebacker positions (Elliot only had outside linebackers I think) then it would make sense that BVG would move though.

 

[Domina Nostra]

If Elliot were out, Booker could move to safeties. TEs get shuffled between Heistand and Denbrock.

 

[kmoose]

I thought that too but going from being DC/MLB to DC/DL seems like a lot more work though doesn't it?

If Elston is taking over all of the Linebacker positions (Elliot only had outside linebackers I think) then it would make sense that BVG would move though.

I guess Elston could have taken over all of LBs to give VanGorder more time to bounce around all of the position groups, at practice, and be a little more hands on with all of them than he was previously able to be?

 

[tko]

Doesn't Elliot have kidney issues? One think at some point the constant treatment would take its toll. Maybe he hangs em up?

 

[IrishLax]

We have room for another coach? I assumed not.

Losing Alford, cooks, Lafluer.

Gaining: Denson, Lyght, Quinn.

Sorry I'm confused.

That's my point? My whole post is to that effect saying we're short a coach unless there is additional shakeup OR one of the reported hires is off. If the hires are all accurate, than either BVG has to move on from coaching ILB and he moves to coaching the DL with Elston coaching all LBs, or there has to be more shakeup elsewhere.

 

[koonja]

Let's face it, well all want Elloit out and Hoke to coach the DL, lol.

 

[Domina Nostra]

Let's face it, well all want Elloit out and Hoke to coach the DL, lol.

I want them to move Elliot into one of those advisory jobs that Alabama and Michigan seem to have.

 

[Hammer Of The Gods]

Let's face it, well all want Elloit out and Hoke to coach the DL, lol.

This! sign me up, I'm all in on Hoke lol

 

[Henges24]

HC: Brian Kelly
OC/WR: Mike Denbrock
DC/LB: BVG
QB: Jeff Quinn
RB: Autry Denson/other candidates
TE: Scott Booker
OL: Harry Hiestand
DL: Hoke
LB: Elston
CB: Todd Lyght

FIFY

 

[Irish#1]

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

That's my point? My whole post is to that effect saying we're short a coach unless there is additional shakeup OR one of the reported hires is off. If the hires are all accurate, than either BVG has to move on from coaching ILB and he moves to coaching the DL with Elston coaching all LBs, or there has to be more shakeup elsewhere.

It would be sort of odd if Elston was switching to LBs and Van Gorder switching to the DL. Linebackers have been BVG's specialty position group throughout his coaching career.

Given the hiring of Lyght (perhaps needing a bit of oversight and some reduced responsibility) and the necessity to get more out of the safety group I could see Van Gorder moving to safeties so he could work more directly with Lyght. Of course, in that scenario Elliott seems to be the odd man out.

 

[NDdomer2]

FIFY

Elliot Retires in this scenario or takes a non-coaching role? His health may qualify him for the non-coaching role.

If someone is really going to take this non-coaching role, what are the allowable duties (recruiting/during practice, etc.) and qualifications preferred (this may be answered by allowable duties)?

Dave P. is already in one of these similar positions correct? As was Sandlin? Both seem to be involved in recruiting, but aren't actually allowed to recruit?

 

[Irish Fam]

It sounds like we know the 3 coaches we are bringing in to replace the 3 we lost.

Done deal:
Lyght replaces Cooks

Gaining traction:
Denson replaces Alford
Quinn replaces Lafleur


My question is, if these are the only changes, who takes over as recruiting coordinator?

None of these guys have enough experience to take on that role. The only guy on our staff currently that I believe could step in would be Denbrock, but his plate is quite full.