Rioting in St Louis

[kmoose]

nah, i care about Notre Dame. i'd prefer when people come to an ND recruiting site that they don't see a post about "thugs" and "animals" in Ferguson, repeating the language that has been used to justify slavery, internment, white supremacy over the course of the nation's history. nothing personal about it.

1an·i·mal noun \ˈa-nə-məl\

: a living thing that is not a human being or plant

: any living thing that is not a plant

: a person who behaves in a wild, aggressive, or unpleasant way

So the people rioting in Ferguson have not, and are not, behaving in a wild, aggressive, or unpleasant way?

And I guess everyone will have to stop referring to the Miami Hurricanes as "thugs".

 

[phgreek]

Yeah, I initially questioned the decision as well, but it makes sense from a standpoint when it comes to bodily harm to others. You don't want to put kids in harm's way here...but then again, a children's hospital was on their list of possible riot targets to hit at one point:

#Ferguson Protest Group Releases List of Targets, Including: Anheuser Busch, Boeing, Emerson Electric, Airport | The Gateway Pundit

WoW...seems less about Brown...which in my book is good news. The bad part is, it seems its not very constructive on its face, so it will likely never be about anything but separating people...

 

[Bubbles]

My 50,000 ft view is that this seems more about culture/class than race, but agendas for the latter predominate.

 

[Irish#1]

Well I guess then it boils down to your definition of "design"... but I do appreciate your counter-point, which is well made and accurate.

In my opinion, what your describing is a product of volition and affluence, not necessarily "designed segregation." I grew up in suburbs my entire life and moved around a bit within the DC area... the first area was predominantly Jewish in Maryland, then we moved and the middle school I attended was about an even split 40/40 black/white, and then the high school I attended was majority Asian... the other one I could've attended was about 40% Latino/Hispanic. Cost of living in each area was relatively comparable, and they were all DC suburbs. People tend to group with "like" people out of volition even if there are no barriers to where they want to live. You'll see demographic clumps but I don't think you can make a case that it's "designed" segregation that way, and I think it's more an organic product of freedom and volition. When I review multi-family dwellings in DC now for my job, I find that the people with the least options (i.e. rent controlled or otherwise assisted occupancy) tend to be the most integrated and diverse... and that's people placed by the "system."

This is a good point. I used to work for Sallie Mae. We had about 3,000 people work in the building I was in. It was racially diverse. They decided to have a "diversity" program. It included seminars in the auditorium, pamphlets, speakers, etc. My session ended at lunch time. I'm leaving to go to lunch and I start laughing, because I see a group of 4 or 5 five employees of Indian descent going to lunch together and another group of Asians going to lunch together. Segregation and integration are pretty much choices of the individual.

 

[irishmarine]

lax, you so smart!

 

[autry_denson]

What's funny is you and others automatically think we associate thug with being black. Not even close. Color has no bearing on being a thug IMO. A 50 year old member of the Mafia is just as much a thug as Billy Bob who steals and commits crimes to support his meth habit. Animals? Same thing. Those KKK members who kill or burn down a church are animals.

Yet as I write this, I realize that you and others are guilty of the same thing you accuse others of. Your narrow minded and racist if you think that thug and animal only mean black. But I guess you can't understand that since you don't live my life.

nah. some people intend it to be a codeword for black people, some don't. that's why it's effective, it gives people cover without specifically mentioning race or using a word that specifically mentions race.

the point, which seems irrelevant to all of you, is that the imagery you're using is the same imagery that has been used to justify violence for centuries. i'm not making an argument about what the poster intended - in fact, I said explicitly that if it was not his intent he should say so clearly. but the connotations carried w language are not meaningless even if one doesn't intend them. this point seems to be missed by several of you.

lastly, it's not altogether unreasonable to think that race has something to do with the comments about the riots in Ferguson. I'm sure you are all equally outraged about the Keene NH pumpkin fest riot, but I don't remember seeing the thread on it: New Hampshire Pumpkin Festival crowd turns unruly - CNN.com

 

[T Town Tommy]

lastly, it's not altogether unreasonable to think that race has something to do with the comments about the riots in Ferguson. I'm sure you are all equally outraged about the Keene NH pumpkin fest riot, but I don't remember seeing the thread on it: New Hampshire Pumpkin Festival crowd turns unruly - CNN.com

That incident has been mentioned quite a few times out here. I do, however, fail to see the similarities when it comes to what is going on in Ferguson.

 

[Irish#1]

What's funny is you and others automatically think we associate thug with being black. Not even close. Color has no bearing on being a thug IMO. A 50 year old member of the Mafia is just as much a thug as Billy Bob who steals and commits crimes to support his meth habit. Animals? Same thing. Those KKK members who kill or burn down a church are animals.

Yet as I write this, I realize that you and others are guilty of the same thing you accuse others of. Your narrow minded and racist if you think that thug and animal only mean black. But I guess you can't understand that since you don't live my life.

nah. some people intend it to be a codeword for black people, some don't. that's why it's effective, it gives people cover without specifically mentioning race or using a word that specifically mentions race.

the point, which seems irrelevant to all of you, is that the imagery you're using is the same imagery that has been used to justify violence for centuries. i'm not making an argument about what the poster intended - in fact, I said explicitly that if it was not his intent he should say so clearly. but the connotations carried w language are not meaningless even if one doesn't intend them. this point seems to be missed by several of you.

lastly, it's not altogether unreasonable to think that race has something to do with the comments about the riots in Ferguson. I'm sure you are all equally outraged about the Keene NH pumpkin fest riot, but I don't remember seeing the thread on it: New Hampshire Pumpkin Festival crowd turns unruly - CNN.com

That statement proves my point. I just told you thug does not mean race, but refers to the type of person and you tell me that's not so. That tells me you're not open minded to my beliefs.

To be honest I didn't hear a thing about the Pumpkin Festival, but I wouldn't condone it anymore than what's happening in Ferguson.

 

[GoIrish41]

Today, economic segregation is much more prevalent than racial segregation. If a black doctor moves into my neighborhood, none of the uptight and white set give it a second thought. That didn't happen in the 60's and 70's. I lived through that time in America's #1 white flight case study.

.

Economic and racial segregation are too often the same thing. If we lose site of this we lose site of a larger and very important point that is at the core of many of the issues we have been discussing here over the last couple of days.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

nah, i care about Notre Dame. i'd prefer when people come to an ND recruiting site that they don't see a post about "thugs" and "animals" in Ferguson, repeating the language that has been used to justify slavery, internment, white supremacy over the course of the nation's history. nothing personal about it.

You've got issues man. No one on this site has ever come close to anything you've said above. The way you characterize people and situations is pathetic and sad.

I'm never one to cry about being offended by anyone or anything, but without a doubt the most outlandish and insensitive comments in the past couple days has come from you and NJNP.

 

[DomerInHappyValley]

- Ice Cube

(Sorry, listening to Ice Cube now on my headphones and just thought the timing was perfect).

Ice Cube that gangsta rapper who got a degree in architectural design in case gangsta rap didnt work out
luckily for us it did guy is a hell of an artist.

 

[autry_denson]

You've got issues man. No one on this site has ever come close to anything you've said above. The way you characterize people and situations is pathetic and sad.

I'm never one to cry about being offended by anyone or anything, but without a doubt the most outlandish and insensitive comments in the past couple days has come from you and NJNP.

haha. try to follow the logic of the dialogue. read things over, then try again. repeat.

 

[autry_denson]

That statement proves my point. I just told you thug does not mean race, but refers to the type of person and you tell me that's not so. That tells me you're not open minded to my beliefs.

To be honest I didn't hear a thing about the Pumpkin Festival, but I wouldn't condone it anymore than what's happening in Ferguson.

i give up. you're not going to understand. let's just agree that i proved your point

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

WATCH | Tamir Rice shooting video

 

[pkt77242]

What are you seriously not getting? Here is your exact quote:



If you believe that, if that is true, then the point is it SHOULD NOT HAVE GONE TO A GRAND JURY IN THE FIRST PLACE. That was the whole point of the NDNation post that you laughed about. Did you not read it?

The fact that you're argument is he got biased treatment in the Grand Jury, when he got snowballed into a Grand Jury in the first place, is laughable. I'll go back to a quote from the NDNation poster:



So, what your basically arguing, from my understanding is this: You understand that there was not going to be an indictment and that no conviction was possible. Yet, you complain about an aspect of a process that should never have proceeded as being unfair?

You understand how silly that sounds, right?

What you are not seeing is that the police and the prosecutor in this case shouldn't be making the decision to prosecute or not as they are too close to it. It has to be done by a disinterested 3rd party (the grand jury) so that there isn't the appearance of a coverup. But if you bring it before the disinterested 3rd party by a party that has bias (prosecutor) and they do a shit job, then yes it fans the flames. Can you not understand why that is? If the prosecutor made the decision on their own then it would have caused even more problems.

So here are the things that the prosecutor either did that are out of the ordinary or simply mind-boggling.
1. Acted as both prosecutor and defense for grand jury. Within law but almost never done, might have been needed based off of the unique situation. Here is my major problem with it. If you are going to do this then you need to bring in a special prosecutor with no ties to the area. Why you might say? Because of point 2.
2. Prosecutor somehow inexplicably doesn't cross examine Officer Wilson. No questions about discrepancies in his story on the stand, yet the prosecutor grilled other witnesses. Biased.

Also the fact that I think that Officer Wilson was probably not guilty of a crime (mostly because police officers get more latitude then an a regular individual when it comes to shooting someone), is my opinion but I still think that we need to have a disinterested 3rd party make the decision, and when we do that, it should be done fairly.

So my thoughts
1. Disinterested 3rd Party (yes on the grand jury)
2. Prosecutor did their job: probably not. If he isn't going to dig into Officer Wilson's inconsistencies then he most likely failed at it.
3. Disinterested 3rd party makes final decision. Yes but slightly tainted by the fact that the prosecutor didn't do their job.

Edit: I am going to add a quote from the other thread

I think the information about the prosecutor is relevant to a discussion about the grand jury proceedings. It certainly seems at least possible that the prosecutor was not invested in the case, which would certainly have an effect on the outcome. As has been noted, the prosecutor presented exculpatory evidence to the grand jury, which he is permitted to do but is (I think exceptionally) unusual. Generally, there is no incentive for the prosecutor to torpedo his own case. The American justice system is intended to be an adversarial system, so I think it is natural to question the prosecutor's conduct in the case - especially in light of other information that may tend to indicate that he was personally conflicted here.

I can understand the argument that he torpedoed his own case with the grand jury because he doesn't believe in it and he only presented it to the grand jury because of outside pressure. However, if he was conflicted in that way, ethically he should have recused himself to allow the case to get an honest hearing. Staying on a case he didn't believe in and then torpedoing the case with grand jury by presenting exculpatory evidence certainly raises questions that he acted as a one-man administrator of justice, stewarding a defendant safely through the process in order to effect the result that he personally sought, in contradiction to his duty in the legal process.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Thug absolutely has racial connotations. You can deny it if you want.

Richard Sherman explains the Crabtree incident and postgame interview | The MMQB with Peter King

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

haha. try to follow the logic of the dialogue. read things over, then try again. repeat.

Yep, I could never keep up with someone of your intellectual capacity

 

[kmoose]

What you are not seeing is that the police and the prosecutor in this case shouldn't be making the decision to prosecute or not as they are too close to it. It has to be done by a disinterested 3rd party (the grand jury) so that there isn't the appearance of a coverup. But if you bring it before the disinterested 3rd party by a party that has bias (prosecutor) and they do a shit job, then yes it fans the flames. Can you not understand why that is?

"fans the flames" has become code for "it's ok to riot, loot, and burn buildings"?

 

[autry_denson]

Yep, I could never keep up with someone of your intellectual capacity

not true. but in this case your post reveals that you were unable to follow the basic logic of a dialogue.

 

[Irish YJ]

Thug
noun

1. a cruel or vicious ruffian, robber, or murderer.

2. (sometimes initial capital letter) one of a former group of professional robbers and murderers in India who strangled their victims.

Are you referring to Indians?

Word Origin and History for thug Expand
n.

1810, "member of a gang of murderers and robbers in India who strangled their victims," from Marathi thag, thak "cheat, swindler," Hindi thag, perhaps from Sanskrit sthaga-s "cunning, fraudulent," possibly from sthagayati "(he) covers, conceals," from PIE root *(s)teg- "cover" (see stegosaurus ). Transferred sense of "ruffian, cutthroat" first recorded 1839. The more correct Indian name is phanseegur, and the activity was described in English as far back as c.1665. Rigorously prosecuted by the British from 1831, they were driven from existence, but the process extended over the rest of the 19c.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Just some general racist shit.

Mpls. Mayor Flashes Gang Sign with Convicted Felon; Law Enforcement Outraged | KSTP TV - Minneapolis and St. Paul

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Are you referring to Indians?

Language is constantly evolving and how words are used is what gives them meaning. Thug is a clean way to say nigger.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

An example of using thug as a slur

Geraldo Rivera Says Minorities "Embrace The Thug Ethic" [VIDEO] | Hip-Hop Wired

 

[calvegas04]

Language is constantly evolving and how words are used is what gives them meaning. Thug is a clean way to say nigger.

I've called white,Hispanic and Italian people thugs am I using that word wrong?

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

I've called white,Hispanic and Italian people thugs am I using that word wrong?

Were they sagging their pants or wearing hoodies? Listening to hip-hop?

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

not true. but in this case your post reveals that you were unable to follow the basic logic of a dialogue.

We can all follow you clearly, and your rationale is unfounded and completely based on emotion.

 

[kmoose]

Language is constantly evolving and how words are used is what gives them meaning. Thug is a clean way to say nigger.

It's ironic how you have never once objected to the use of this word, in the hundreds of times or so that the word has been used, here on this board, to describe football players and/or teams. You are just making this stuff up as you go. Whatever straw you can grasp at, to make yourself a victim of white hate.

 

[BobD]

How many different people in this thread have pulled the "b-b-but I have black friends!" card so far?

I'm from San Francisco. My friends come in so many colors, it would freak you out.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

It's ironic how you have never once objected to the use of this word, in the hundreds of times or so that the word has been used, here on this board, to describe football players and/or teams. You are just making this stuff up as you go. Whatever straw you can grasp at, to make yourself a victim of white hate.

You act like that's something that I am making up. I've posted an article about it already. If you clicked on a link every now and then you'd realize that I and Autry Denson are not alone on this. Actually your viewpoints on this and race relations are becoming more and more obscure in the national conversation thankfully.

 

[Corry]

I didn't want to create a new thread because it's generally on the same topic.

Tamir Rice Video Shows Cleveland Police Killing 12-Year-Old | Mediaite


This is only going to add fuel to the fire.
Sorry I don't know how to post a video.