The Jameis Winston Investigation Thread

[rocket66]

Isn't their backup hurt? If Winston is held out ND would face a walk-on.

 

[TheChosen1]

If your an Ohio state fan, you have to be furious with the handling of this.

 

[koonja]

Keep in mind, FSU's crappy backup Mcguire is injured, right? If Winston was suspended, who do they even play? Whoever it is, it has to be better than Mcguire. That guy was awful, lol.

I kind of want him to play... But if we lost, I'd wish he didn't play. So I'll have a half full glass of kool aid either way.

As the muggles say, the truth will out!

 

[Irish Insanity]

Well... then I have been to fantasy land on three seperate occasions in the last year. Guess I didn't see what I see.

I don't doubt what you're saying at all. But 900 is a massive amount of things to have signed that route. It would seem it's more likely a signing session or 2 than 900 kids running memorabilia from him to a paying dealer.

 

[IrishInFl]

Keep in mind, FSU's crappy backup Mcguire is injured, right? If Winston was suspended, who do they even play? Whoever it is, it has to be better than Mcguire. That guy was awful, lol.

I kind of want him to play... But if we lost, I'd wish he didn't play. So I'll have a half full glass of kool aid either way.

As the muggles say, the truth will out!

I think it's a true freshman, but if the redshirt is important enough, it would be a walk-on.

 

[greyhammer90]

I think it's a true freshman, but if the redshirt is important enough, it would be a walk-on.

Van Gorder against a true freshman making his first start would be considered an assault in 35 states.

 

[Irish YJ]

Depth from Rivals

5 Jameis Winston | 6-4, 230, RS SO
10 Sean Maguire | 6-3, 220, RS SO
16 J.J. Cosentino | 6-4, 234, FR

 

[koonja]

Depth from Rivals

5 Jameis Winston | 6-4, 230, RS SO
10 Sean Maguire | 6-3, 220, RS SO
16 J.J. Cosentino | 6-4, 234, FR

Just looked him up. True freshman, 90 rating. Wow is that 2014 class loaded.

 

[Irish#1]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Update: James Spence Authentication has authenticated MORE THAN 900 Winston signatures, including more than 400 signed jersey #'s.</p>— darren rovell (@darrenrovell) <a href="https://twitter.com/darrenrovell/status/521870900875259904">October 14, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

The number was 340 earlier today when the story broke. I believe this dealer had ~500 Gurley items.

FSU fans keep saying that Winston signs everything for the fans and its totally logical for this one dealer to have so many autographed items.....do fans sell their player signatures to dealers? I feel like if I had something signed by an ND guy, I would keep it? Right?

I think he'll be suspended. They already proved they weren't afraid to suspend him earlier this year for the Clemson game. I think the media backlash will just be too strong (scrong) these next couple days.

If he is, it won't be until after this game.

 

[Me2SouthBend]

This thread has the Koyack to overtake the Rumored Violations thread as thread of the year.

 

[Irish YJ]

Just looked him up. True freshman, 90 rating. Wow is that 2014 class loaded.

He might have chance to become a household name this Saturday LOL.

 

[IrishInFl]

There are so many damn FSU fans whining about ESPN's coverage of Jameis Winston. They're also posting pictures of Te'o, as if it's relevant to this season at all.

 

[BGIF]

Depth from Rivals

5 Jameis Winston | 6-4, 230, RS SO
10 Sean Maguire | 6-3, 220, RS SO
16 J.J. Cosentino | 6-4, 234, FR

FSU has four scholarship QBs. The three above and RS QB John Franklin 6-0 180. Rivals listed him as an Unranked Dual Threat QB with 4.38 speed. He played scout team QB in '13 and DNP. I can't find any stats for his in '13

Cosentino was Rivals #15 Drop Back QB. He's a true freshman with no college stats.

The NCAA Injury Report lists Maguire as "out indefinitely" hand.

If Winston is out they would be playing a virgin QB. Hardly a Winston clone.

 

[BGIF]

There are so many damn FSU fans whining about ESPN's coverage of Jameis Winston. They're also posting pictures of Te'o, as if it's relevant to this season at all.

It's definitely not relevant to Winston just a feeble attempt to change the subject. Te'o was naive and gullible. He had no controversy with NCAA rules, ND rules, or Criminal activity. To the contrary he was the model of a gentlemen. A credit to his parents, his church, and his school.

 

[Irish#1]

FSU has four scholarship QBs. The three above and RS QB John Franklin 6-0 180. Rivals listed him as an Unranked Dual Threat QB with 4.38 speed. He played scout team QB in '13 and DNP. I can't find any stats for his in '13

Cosentino was Rivals #15 Drop Back QB. He's a true freshman with no college stats.

The NCAA Injury Report lists Maguire as "out indefinitely" hand.

If Winston is out they would be playing a virgin QB. Hardly a Winston clone.

A football player in college and hasn't gotten laid yet? I feel for the kid.

 

[koonja]

A football player in college and hasn't gotten laid yet? I feel for the kid.

To be fair, at FSU, if it's consentual, it doesn't count. He still has time.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

My two cents:

$0.01
The sexual assault and autograph issues are currently labeled "alleged." They're under further investigation. He may be guilty of both, but as of right now, they don't have the proof to nail him. This is why he's still playing. Call it shady, turning a blind eye, being ignorant, etc. It doesn't matter. FSU does not have the integrity to give two shits what everyone thinks and they're going to ride this kid as long as they can.

$0.02
Every other violation of rules that this kid has committed should've been enough to warrant a harsher punishment. The investigations alone would've cause some schools to bench a player. The compilation of every violation (proven, or otherwise) is what should ultimately be the determining factor in suspending this kid. He is a problem child that just doesn't get it. It's time for FSU to save some face, admit the wrong doing, and suspend this kid from all football related activities.

Edit: I will add that I hope they wait until Monday, which would immediately follow an ass-kicking from our beloved Irish. Suspending him this week won't help ND convince the haters and will only make a loss that much worse.

Edit_2: Upon further thinking. I want Winston to be expelled from FSU and to NOT play this weekend. Jameis, FSU admin, FSU AD, FSU coaching, the boosters, and the police officers involved throughout all of this are exactly what's wrong w/ the NCAA. It's a shame that schools that try to play by the rules get left in the dust by the schools that break rules for the sake of winning and money.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

My two cents:

$0.01
The sexual assault and autograph issues are currently labeled "alleged." They're under further investigation. He may be guilty of both, but as of right now, they don't have the proof to nail him. This is why he's still playing. Call it shady, turning a blind eye, being ignorant, etc. It doesn't matter. FSU does not have the integrity to give two shits what everyone thinks and they're going to ride this kid as long as they can.

$0.02
Every other violation of rules that this kid has committed should've been enough to warrant a harsher punishment. The investigations alone would've cause some schools to bench a player. The compilation of every violation (proven, or otherwise) is what should ultimately be the determining factor in suspending this kid. He is a problem child that just doesn't get it. It's time for FSU to save some face, admit the wrong doing, and suspend this kid from all football related activities.

A pretty good value for two cents! Who said you can't get anything worthwhile for a penny anymore! Reps sir!

And on point number one, that is the difference between FSU and UND! Pushing the envelope on the letter of the law, versus respecting it.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

I don't doubt what you're saying at all. But 900 is a massive amount of things to have signed that route. It would seem it's more likely a signing session or 2 than 900 kids running memorabilia from him to a paying dealer.

Exactly.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

The Jameis Winston Investigation Thread

FSU is not ignorant, they are smart. Seems like only the schools that self-report get hammered with sanctions or have to vacate wins. The precedent is pretty clear: deny and thrive, or report and go down. Such a positive message really....

 

[OCIrish]

If your an Ohio state fan, you have to be furious with the handling of this.

Why???

 

[BGIF]

Report coming. Cliff notes for the radio impaired. These would then be BGIFNotes.

Sorry Bogs got distracted.

Greenberg recapped the events and asked if Winston would be kept out.
Golic said no, not unless NCAA forces it.

Greenberg asked if distractions would impair Winston's performance.
Golic said no, these distractions have been ongoing for year and they haven't effected his play. Winston will stay focused.

Greenberg played tape of Fisher claiming the media is jumping on Winston. Fisher emphatically reiterated "Innocent until proven guility not guilty until proven innocent".

Greenberg did not discuss how much money Fisher would lose in his perfornance based contract if Winston was kept out and FSU lost and didn't go to the playoffs (About a $500,000)

Mike & Mike ran a poll on "Would you draft Winston as your franchise QB for your NFL team". 86% voted No.

Golic added that under these circumstances a franchise would surrender control to a controversy plagued athlete like Winston.

They discussed the unusual outside hearing officer for Student Misconduct. That still boggles me that FSU issued a joint public statement that from the President and VP of Student Affairs that they did that for "impartiality".

Also interesting Winston has never spoken to any authorities in the sexual assault issue. He didn't testify at prior hearing. He didn't make a statement to investigating officers nor the DA's staff. Meanwhile Fisher is adamant that "All the facts are in. Read the report. There is nothing new".

I thought the most damaging portion was a phone interview with Darron Rovell, ESPN Business Reporter. Rovell's principal point was it isn't just about signed memorabilia but the type and volume of items and that they are authenticated in sequence which would happen if these came from random football and baseball events over a period of time.

For example there are 20 signed pylons. Where does a fan get a pylon at a baseball game?
A football field only has 4. Pylons are not common memorabilia items like programs, jerseys, etc. Twenty is the equivalent of 5 football fields.

He noted that there were 432 signed #5s. Not 432 #5 jerseys but just 432 numerals. And all signed in the same manner, same location, identical verbiage. Think about the unlikely hood of that happening at random signings over a year and half as claimed by Fisher.

Rovell further pointed out that signing numerals is common among memorabilia companies. They pick up felt numerals cheaply. Get them signed en masse. And then have them sown onto KNOCK OFF jersey's with the school's colors. So their not paying the freight for trademarked jersey's but imply that they are official.

The 116 signed photos have the same identical look for products produced in random events.

Interesting that 76 "fans" showed up after a game with the identical FSU football autographed on the identical spot.

Jameis is obviously focused on his protocol for random signings of random items.

Fisher supposedly asked Winston if he signed autographs for money and got a no response. I will venture that discussion went along the lines of the Gene Stallings agent inquiry with Antonio Langham. "You didn't sign anything or get anything that would make you ineligible, DID YOU?? "Duh, no coach." "Good, investigation completed." Bama got clobbered by the NCAA for going through the motions. Stallings got to retire and AD was unemployed as well.


Here's Rovell's list of items for his article:

Despite Fisher's theory that the items could have come from different fans, it's doubtful they came from more than a few people.

Authenticators certify an autograph by attaching a serial number to an item. That serial number then links back to the authenticator's website, where the owner of that signature or a perspective buyer can look it up.

JSA authenticates items as it receives them and attaches the serial numbers in sequential order. JSA authenticated 432 signed jersey numbers with serial numbers J62424 through J62659 and serial numbers J72790 through J72992. JSA authenticated 116 16-by-20 photos (J70005 through J70121), 76 of the exact same Florida State logo footballs (J65886 through J65962), 72 white jerseys (J61437 through J61509) and 67 of the exact same signed mini helmets in order with serial numbers J66829 through J66896. The company also authenticated 53 jerseys in a row (J66947 through J67001), 38 11-by-14 photos (J66026 through J66064), 20 signed pylons (J70609 through J70628), 18 of the exact same footballs (J66919 through J66936) and 11 signed Rawlings baseballs (J66898 through J66911).

Florida State Seminoles look into Jameis Winston autographs - ESPN

 

[BGIF]

FSU is not ignorant, they are smart. Seems like only the schools that self-report get hammered with sanctions or have to vacate wins. The precedent is pretty clear: deny and thrive, or report and go down. Such a positive message really....

When the proof is apparent, you offer your own punishment hoping to minimize it. That's the NCAA model.

Then when the NCAA rules on what you offered you appeal to negotiate it down.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

nm

 

[ab2cmiller]

Looking at Jimbo's bonuses built into his contract, it's obvious Jimbo has a financial incentive to keep Winston playing.

Jimbo Fisher’s Bonus Potential
The Florida State head football coach is paid a base salary of $225,000 plus additional compensation of $3.275 million. In addition, his contract lays out these bonuses:
$100,000 for winning the Atlantic Coast Conference Division Championship
$100,000 for winning the A.C.C. Championship
$75,000 for participating in the college football playoffs
$200,000 for participating in the national championship game
$200,000 for winning the national championship
$100,000 for participating in a Bowl Championship Series bowl game other than the national championship
$50,000 for participating in a non-B.C.S. bowl game
$200,000 for finishing with a final ranking in the A.P. Poll within the top 5
$100,000 for finishing with a final ranking in the A.P. Poll within the top 10
$200,000 for an undefeated season
$75,000 for being named national coach of the year
$50,000 for being named A.C.C. coach of the year
$25,000 for having a graduation rate between 65 and 84 percent; $50,000 for having a graduation rate higher than 84 percent
$25,000 for having a .930 academic performance rating or higher for the school year

 

[IrishSteelhead]

When the proof is apparent, you offer your own punishment hoping to minimize it. That's the NCAA model.



Then when the NCAA rules on what you offered you appeal to negotiate it down.

The NCAA seems to only rule on what you report and punish yourself though, that's my impression.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Looking at Jimbo's bonuses built into his contract, it's obvious Jimbo has a financial incentive to keep Winston playing.

That tier should be flipped upside down. Very sad.

 

[JughedJones]

Despite Fisher's theory that the items could have come from different fans, it's doubtful they came from more than a few people.

Authenticators certify an autograph by attaching a serial number to an item. That serial number then links back to the authenticator's website, where the owner of that signature or a perspective buyer can look it up.

JSA authenticates items as it receives them and attaches the serial numbers in sequential order. JSA authenticated 432 signed jersey numbers with serial numbers J62424 through J62659 and serial numbers J72790 through J72992. JSA authenticated 116 16-by-20 photos (J70005 through J70121), 76 of the exact same Florida State logo footballs (J65886 through J65962), 72 white jerseys (J61437 through J61509) and 67 of the exact same signed mini helmets in order with serial numbers J66829 through J66896. The company also authenticated 53 jerseys in a row (J66947 through J67001), 38 11-by-14 photos (J66026 through J66064), 20 signed pylons (J70609 through J70628), 18 of the exact same footballs (J66919 through J66936) and 11 signed Rawlings baseballs (J66898 through J66911).

Well this is absolutely ridiculous then. How could any reasonable person look at this and , even for a moment, conclude that they were just fan autographs?

Absolutely preposterous.

That being said, the last thing I want is for ND to beat FSU with some no-name QB at the helm. (Or even worse, get beat by a no-name QB.) I would much rather play JW win or lose, then let the suspensions come.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Well this is absolutely ridiculous then. How could any reasonable person look at this and , even for a moment, conclude that they were just fan autographs?

Absolutely preposterous.

That being said, the last thing I want is for ND to beat FSU with some no-name QB at the helm. (Or even worse, get beat by a no-name QB.) I would much rather play JW win or lose, then let the suspensions come.

This is absolutely true, but that logic will never hold up. Needs to be proof that he was paid. Wasn't Gurley caught on tape? I keep hearing that's the major difference in these two cases. JW absolutely was paid, but can they prove it? That's the question.

 

[BGIF]

The NCAA seems to only rule on what you report and punish yourself though, that's my impression.

That's because the NCAA has no subpoena powers (which their membership purposely prevented) they have to get information through other sources, like court lawsuits, or investigative articles. Albert Means, Bush, become known that way.

When the info does become public the schools scramble to do damage control by investigation and self reporting. Most learned from Alabama's Langham "investigation" to at least make it look like you did an investigation.

When the textbook scandal became know Alabama jumped on it and self reported and self imposed. I think Alabama is the most NCAA procedural savy program in the country.

Mike Garrett and Pete Carroll didn't offer anything on Bush and got stiffer penalties.

OSU's Gee joked about the football coach firing him.

Pat Dye stonewalled at Auburn and the NCAA was going to force Auburn to separate him from the school. Before the NCAA report was released Dye was allowed to resign as HC and AD but he was then appointed Special Advisor to the University President for life. Seems the head of the BOT was also the Chairman of the Bank where the money was coming from.

I'm not defending the NCAA (which does what its members wants). Just pointing out that some schools have learned the NCAA Two Step.

Others pay the price for not dancing such as ND in Dunbar where Malloy refused to appeal on principal.