Coaches Poll Top 25 (ND #7)

[pumpdog20]

Fuck ESPN. They do have a right to their opinions. Its nice to see the respect you deserve reflected in rankings. But wake me up when they decide the playoff participants. They don't



To be fair, there weren't a whole lot of positive highlights for us. The D played phenomenal, but we couldn't run well, we dropped a lot of passes, and turned it over a few times.

Where you think Condoleza Rice is going to get her information?

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Why is a&m better than Stanford?

Didn't say they are. I specifically said I could listen to that argument. But in the context of beating LSU (who we thought was better at the time) and then A&M, I can understand Mississippi State being ranked ahead of us.

We jumped 5 spots after beating an unranked and terrible Michigan team. In fact, we jumped ahead of Ole Miss (SEC bias). How's that look now?

 

[nd_fan]

The SEC West is 22-0 against out of conference opponents. They've only lost to each other. That's not bias, that's a fact.

Let's take a look at SEC West against OOC games

Bama - WVU*, Florida Atlantic, Southern. Miss, Western Carolina

Arkansas - Nichols St., Texas Tech, N. Illinois, Alabama-Birmingham

Auburn - San Jose State, Kansas State*, Louisiana Tech, Samford

LSU - Wisconsin*, Sam Houston St., Louisiana Monroe, New Mexico State

Miss State - Southern Miss., Alabama-Birmingham, Southern Alabama, UT-Martin

Ole Miss - Boise State, UL Lafayette, Memphis, Presbyterian

aTm - Lamar, Rice, SMU, Louisiana Monroe

Outside of Kansas State, Wisconsin and West Virginia, none of these teams are really that impressive for them to gloat around that they are undefeated against out of conference teams. Alabama doesn't even have a top 25 team win. ATM's win top ranked win is against SC who is not even ranked anymore.

 

[Cackalacky]

You guys are arguing about what has to be the most subjective thing in sports. Wizards has a few cogent points. Until someone starts to beat the SEc teams (whoever is at top) regularly, then it won't mean a hill of beans. Except the those 22-0 OOC wins are against minnows so there is some inherent bias there no question.

And I also think we are over ranked right now. No way we are #5. If we manage to beat FSU then I will feel better but right now, I can think of several teams we would get beat by and possibly whipped.

 

[irishog77]

Didn't say they are. I specifically said I could listen to that argument. But in the context of beating LSU (who we thought was better at the time) and then A&M, I can understand Mississippi State being ranked ahead of us.

We jumped 5 spots after beating an unranked and terrible Michigan team. In fact, we jumped ahead of Ole Miss (SEC bias). How's that look now?

Wizards said they were. I think an argument could be made either way, but as far as I can tell, a&m is better (according to voters) based on them beating a 3-loss team.

Each team is different every year, but at least Stanford has a 4 year track record of being very good. a&m has...johnny footbaw with a great 1st quarter and beating alabama in 2012?

 

[IrishJayhawk]

You guys are arguing about what has to be the most subjective thing in sports. Wizards has a few cogent points. Until someone starts to beat the SEc teams (whoever is at top) regularly, then it won't mean a hill of beans. Except the those 22-0 OOC wins are against minnows so there is some inherent bias there no question.

And I also think we are over ranked right now. No way we are #5. If we manage to beat FSU then I will feel better but right now, I can think of several teams we would get beat by and possibly whipped.

I tend to agree. But it's such a weird year that I can't make a great argument that we wouldn't have a shot against most teams. At #5 or 6, we're in perfect position for things to play out. If we keep willing, all will be fine.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Wizards said they were. I think an argument could be made either way, but as far as I can tell, a&m is better (according to voters) based on them beating a 3-loss team.

Each team is different every year, but at least Stanford has a 4 year track record of being very good. a&m has...johnny footbaw with a great 1st quarter and beating alabama in 2012?

Fair points. But our signature wins are against a 2 loss team and a raging tire fire.

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

I'm not sure what the uproar is.

-Ole Miss still has to play: A&M, Tenn, LSU, Aub, Ark, and Miss St.
There's at least two/three losses in there.

-Miss St still has to play: Aub, Ark, Bama, Ole Miss.
Probably two/three losses there.


Personally, I think the biggest concern is Aub winning out, losing the Iron Bowl and still making the playoffs along with Bama.

We should be rooting for Miss St this weekend to ensure only one team from the SEC west making the playoff.

 

[koonja]

The only teams I don't want to play because IDK if we could compete with them are Alabama and Auburn. I was going to say MSU, but we'd pressure that guy like he's never been before. Our defense is that good.

Not afraid of anyone else, including FSU.

 

[Irishman77]

Only team I would hate to face is miss st.

I would love a rematch with bama or okla..

 

[BobD]

It's early, but I like being prepared. Someone at Grace hall should make sure all the bulbs are good and maybe convert to LED while they're at it.

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

It's early, but I like being prepared. Someone at Grace hall should make sure all the bulbs are good and maybe convert to LED while they're at it.

I built a mini version to put on my roof.
It might just see some daylight this season!

 

[ickythump1225]

Fair points. But our signature wins are against a 2 loss team and a raging tire fire.

Nothing directed at you but...
I &$#&^$&^ HATE that argument. Stanford was a ONE loss team, they only have TWO losses because ND beat them.

I'm not sure what the uproar is.

-Ole Miss still has to play: A&M, Tenn, LSU, Aub, Ark, and Miss St.
There's at least two/three losses in there.

-Miss St still has to play: Aub, Ark, Bama, Ole Miss.
Probably two/three losses there.


Personally, I think the biggest concern is Aub winning out, losing the Iron Bowl and still making the playoffs along with Bama.

We should be rooting for Miss St this weekend to ensure only one team from the SEC west making the playoff.

I agree with this. Even in the AP poll where we're ranked #6 we're in prime position. Auburn, Ole Miss, and Miss St. all play each other still. The SEC is going to cannibalize itself before the end of year, hell it's already started. Plus we still play FSU. That accounts for 4 of the teams ahead of us. If we take care of business over the next 2 weeks we could be the #1 team in the country. Auburn and Miss St. play each other this week so there goes one team. Plus we play FSU on the road in 2 weeks. If we beat them we'll have the signature win of the season.

In short, we're fine.

 

[nd_fan]

Something tells me the winner of AU and Miss St, will just be ahead of ND in the rankings because they will be counted "better quality win" so we may not even ever see the number 1 spot even if we beat FSU.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Nothing directed at you but...
I &$#&^$&^ HATE that argument. Stanford was a ONE loss team, they only have TWO losses because ND beat them.


I agree with this. Even in the AP poll where we're ranked #6 we're in prime position. Auburn, Ole Miss, and Miss St. all play each other still. The SEC is going to cannibalize itself before the end of year, hell it's already started. Plus we still play FSU. That accounts for 4 of the teams ahead of us. If we take care of business over the next 2 weeks we could be the #1 team in the country. Auburn and Miss St. play each other this week so there goes one team. Plus we play FSU on the road in 2 weeks. If we beat them we'll have the signature win of the season.

In short, we're fine.

Okay...their other loss is to an unranked, two-loss, and deeply flawed USC team.

But, yes, I agree with the second paragraph.

 

[Irish YJ]

Let's take a look at SEC West against OOC games

Bama - WVU*, Florida Atlantic, Southern. Miss, Western Carolina

Arkansas - Nichols St., Texas Tech, N. Illinois, Alabama-Birmingham

Auburn - San Jose State, Kansas State*, Louisiana Tech, Samford

LSU - Wisconsin*, Sam Houston St., Louisiana Monroe, New Mexico State

Miss State - Southern Miss., Alabama-Birmingham, Southern Alabama, UT-Martin

Ole Miss - Boise State, UL Lafayette, Memphis, Presbyterian

aTm - Lamar, Rice, SMU, Louisiana Monroe

Outside of Kansas State, Wisconsin and West Virginia, none of these teams are really that impressive for them to gloat around that they are undefeated against out of conference teams. Alabama doesn't even have a top 25 team win. ATM's win top ranked win is against SC who is not even ranked anymore.

To add....

Kansas St controlled the game most of time. They had a few really messed up instances that led to their loss to Auburn.

Wisconsin led LSU almost the whole game and gave it away at the end.

Bama struggled with WV

 

[IrishJayhawk]

To add....

Kansas St controlled the game most of time. They had a few really messed up instances that led to their loss to Auburn.

Wisconsin led LSU almost the whole game and gave it away at the end.

Bama struggled with WV

And we were behind late and had to rely on a miracle just to eek out a win at home.

Don't get me wrong, I loved it and I love our team. But I think you're using a double-standard when arguing for your favorite team.

As you said, we just have to keep winning and we'll be fine.

 

[phgreek]

The last few weeks I have been conducting an informal unscientific observation of how the top SEC schools fare when they win and lose...this week Bama and TAMU lose and collectively fall 12 spots; the Miss schools win and move up 17 spots collectively. Net gain for the $EC 5 spots. Do this week in and out and couple it with the fact that they don't play anyone out of conference that should beat them and you will see the $EC bias quantified.

Ding ding ding....Winnner

 

[Rhode Irish]

I agree with that it is ridiculous when there is an "upset" in the SEC and the losing team drops half as many spots as the winning team moves up. But to play Devil's Advocate on the other point about only playing each other and not playing anyone out of conference: if the teams really are as good as we are told, how tough of OOC games do you want them to play? Lets just say, for the sake of argument, that seven or eight of the top 25 teams are actually in the SEC. Well, some poor team is going to end up playing 5 or 6 of them. Should they also go play Oregon and Oklahoma out of conference? Theoretically you could be the 25th best team in the country and finish with a losing record and not bowl eligible.

 

[Irish YJ]

And we were behind late and had to rely on a miracle just to eek out a win at home.

Don't get me wrong, I loved it and I love our team. But I think you're using a double-standard when arguing for your favorite team.

As you said, we just have to keep winning and we'll be fine.

Just saying whoever made the point about the SEC ooc record.... these were their 3 toughest games, two of which are not ranked, and they struggled mightily. The games were also played on SEC home fields. The rest of the teams they played were bottom of the barrel.

 

[IrishLax]

"SEC West 22-0 against OOC..."

LOL... Wisconsin is proving to be flat out not good because they can't throw the ball, and they still almost beat LSU.

WVU is a middle of the pack Big 12 team and hung with Bama.

KSU should've beaten Auburn... the highest rated team in the conference.

Every other team they've beaten is utter trash. So your stat is completely worthless and actually an indictment of how little those schools challenge themselves outside of conference.

 

[Grahambo]

Coaches Poll Top 25 (ND #5)

Coaches Poll Top 25 (ND #5)

Every other team they've beaten is utter trash. So your stat is completely worthless and actually an indictment of how little those schools challenge themselves outside of conference.

Isn't the counter argument that they play a soft OOC schedule because of how tough their conference schedule is?

Not saying I disagree with you because scheduling D1AA or D2 teams has got to stop.

 

[ickythump1225]

I agree with that it is ridiculous when there is an "upset" in the SEC and the losing team drops half as many spots as the winning team moves up. But to play Devil's Advocate on the other point about only playing each other and not playing anyone out of conference: if the teams really are as good as we are told, how tough of OOC games do you want them to play? Lets just say, for the sake of argument, that seven or eight of the top 25 teams are actually in the SEC. Well, some poor team is going to end up playing 5 or 6 of them. Should they also go play Oregon and Oklahoma out of conference? Theoretically you could be the 25th best team in the country and finish with a losing record and not bowl eligible.

That's some #seclogic right there. I'm sorry but the "ohmygawd the SEC is just so TOUGH!!" is based on preseason hype and speculation. USCe, UGA, aTm, and, LSU were the products of massive preseason overhype and teams that have beat them then get overhyped. It's a self fulfilling cycle. The SEC can never lose because even when they lose the team they lost to shoots up 10 spots in the rankings so that loss in retrospect is a "quality loss" (to borrow a term I saw used to describe Alabama's loss to Ole Miss).

 

[chicago51]

I got no major issues with this current poll. Though I think preseason polls are a joke. Preseason polls are sometimes horribly wrong but yet list have lasting effect that mucks up the rankings for various reasons (beating a perceived good when they were not).

Personally if I was dictator of college football I wouldn't even release a poll after the first weekend in October, so pretty much this week.

However there will always be preseason polls.

 

[TheSunIsRising]

The conference vs conference records for the 'power conferences the past couple of bowl seasons (BCS or NC records in brackets):

ACC 6-6 (2-0)
B-Ten 4-11 (1-2)
B-12 6-6 (1-1)
P-12 5-5 (2-1)
SEC 12-6 (1-3)
ND 1-1 (0-1)

SEC's record looks pretty good, until you look at who they have been mainly winning against: they are 5-2 versus the B-Ten the last 2 years, so are 7-4 (still good, but not as dominant) against the other power conferences. With that 1-3 BCS/NC record, they clearly are not as dominant the past couple of years as they had been.

They are 4-3 against the ACC in bowl games the last 2 years, and 0-2 in BCS/NC games. They are 2-1 against the B-12 during that stretch, and 0-1 in BCS/NC games.
Yes, we know who that one win in NC/BCS games was against, but that was "Lennay's" fault.

Just thought that if you look back the last couple of years, their bowl record isn't quite as 'dominant' as it is made out to be.

 

[TheSunIsRising]

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[TheSunIsRising]

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[Irish#1]

That much of a drop for Stanford is stupid. They lost a very close game, on the road, in a fall monsoon, to a higher ranked team, and the voters are punishing them. If only we could all be in the SEC... Then everyone could be an overrated waste of a football team unassociated with outside things like academics and rules.

Feeling this quite strongly: Better Off Without 'Em: A Northern Manifesto for Southern Secession:Amazon:Books

Agree and thought MSU got too much credit for beating LSU.

 

[Rhode Irish]

That's some #seclogic right there. I'm sorry but the "ohmygawd the SEC is just so TOUGH!!" is based on preseason hype and speculation. USCe, UGA, aTm, and, LSU were the products of massive preseason overhype and teams that have beat them then get overhyped. It's a self fulfilling cycle. The SEC can never lose because even when they lose the team they lost to shoots up 10 spots in the rankings so that loss in retrospect is a "quality loss" (to borrow a term I saw used to describe Alabama's loss to Ole Miss).

I don't disagree with you at all. But I think you missed the part of my post where I said I was playing Devil's Advocate. I definitely think SEC teams get too much of the benefit of the doubt in the polls. But I also think that the way they set up their schedules it is very difficult to make the case empirically. It would be good if there was some sort of round-robin setup at the NCAA level where teams were randomly assigned one game a year against another BCS opponent, and you rotated home and away every year. At least that way a couple SEC teams would have to go out to the west coast or into some other unfriendly confines and that could serve as a measuring stick going forward.

 

[phork]

The SEC West is 22-0 against out of conference opponents. They've only lost to each other. That's not bias, that's a fact.

You guys have a ridiculous double standard. You don't like "leap frogging," but I can't wait to see everyone bitch if we beat Florida State and we don't leapfrog Baylor. No no... Notre Dame is allowed to leap teams but NO ONE else. Yes, Stanford is a quality opponent but they're not on the same level as Alabama or A&M.

You all think we're underrated and the haters think we're over rated. I'll take that as solid evidence that we're appropriately rated.

See OOC opponents. Bullshit.

And we were behind late and had to rely on a miracle just to eek out a win at home.

Don't get me wrong, I loved it and I love our team. But I think you're using a double-standard when arguing for your favorite team.

As you said, we just have to keep winning and we'll be fine.

Sorry, you sound ESPN power rankings:

The Irish survived the nation's best defense, but Notre Dame is going to have to beat Florida State in two weeks to be taken more seriously as a playoff contender.

So.... Beat the best defense in conditions that favour defense and we still haven't played anyone yet. Kiss my black ass.