NCAA approves unlimited meals and snacks.

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Bogtrotter07

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The thing I don't like about this "fix" is that there wasn't any problem in the first place. A Notre Dame student-athlete (or regular student) has a dining plan that is either three meals per day or two meals per day with bonus "flex points" to be spent at facilities other than the dining hall. Let's assume that the athlete chooses the three-meal-per-day option. EACH of these three meals per day is all-you-can-eat. Yes, the athlete is "limited" in the sense that he can only physically enter the dining hall three times per day, but, once there, he has literally unlimited access to food. He can sit there for two hours and eat 9,000 calories of nothing but chicken breasts if that's what Longo prescribes.

This new rule A) fixes a system that wasn't broken, B) creates a new arms race that has nothing to do with being a "student athlete", and C) further separates athletes from "regular" students.

Wizard, the thing I would like to see is a general, broader, healthier, maybe more representative view. Like this. In Division 1, there are still teams transporting players in busses with holes in the floorboards. What happens at UND is not indicative of what happens at the lower, more backwoods end of the spectrum. So I would not find it hard to believe that there are places that kids do go hungry. Even if it has never happened at ND.
 

Irish#1

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Sports radio guy in Indy dormed with a couple of IU B-ball players back around 1990. He said those guys ate for free at Steak and Shake all the time and almost always ordered more than they could eat so their friends could have some. I'm betting this type of service has been going on for a long time and not just at IU.
 

Huntr

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>NCAA President Mark Emmert said that if he were an college football player, he would not want to be paid beyond his scholarship.</p>— Paul Pabst (@PaulPabst) <a href="https://twitter.com/PaulPabst/statuses/458253985057886209">April 21, 2014</a></blockquote>
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Irish#1

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>NCAA President Mark Emmert said that if he were an college football player, he would not want to be paid beyond his scholarship.</p>— Paul Pabst (@PaulPabst) <a href="https://twitter.com/PaulPabst/statuses/458253985057886209">April 21, 2014</a></blockquote>
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I just listened to him and the Dan Patrick show. The man talked for 15 minutes and never gave a straight answer. The man could teach Fred Astaire how to tap dance!
 

IrishLax

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Mark Emmert is killing college sports. Complete buffoon, incapable of enforcing rules on rampant cheaters, and cannot present coherent argument for amateurism.

I think half the people on this board could do his job better than him.
 

Huntr

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I think when you look that incompetent and clearly unable to navigate what appears to be a cultural change in attitude toward your business, you need to be removed from your position. He is making a bad situation worse.

The "information age" is cliche, but it and the growing popularity of college sports has made so many ppl more aware of how screwed this really is. The college athletic governing system needs to be torn down and remade from scratch.
 

Big23Head

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<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/pX8BXH3SJn0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

dales5050

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But the fact that the "we're starving" argument was bullshit in the first place is the very reason they shouldn't have given in. They're conceding the argument and the next time some idiot player says "we're freezing," or "we can't get around town," the NCAA is going to cave yet again and provide unlimited clothing and transportation.


You seem to be upset at the validity of the 'we're starving argument'..so may I ask your feelings on the college presidents wanting to maintain the amateur status of college student athletes argument as a reason for not paying the kids? How does your BS meter read there?

The NCAA caved because they farm these kids for the cash they generate and they wanted to keep the peace on the plantation for as long as they could.


As for the concerns of arms races at the training table or transportation or any other item...I say go for it? Hell, they should have 24/7 room service IFYAM.
 

kmoose

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The NCAA caved because they farm these kids for the cash they generate and they wanted to keep the peace on the plantation for as long as they could.

Actually, this was a common sense change to a rule that brought about situations like this one:

Violation: Three current student-athletes received food in excess of NCAA regulation at a graduation banquet. The three had graduated from the school but returned for an additional season of competition. The players were provided pasta in excess of the permissible amount allowed. Resolution: The three were required to donate $3.83 each (the cost of the pasta serving) to a charity of their choice in order to be reinstated. The department provided rules education to applicable athletics department staff members.
 

IRISHDODGER

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Let's assume, for agrument's sake; that most of the major D1 football & bball players have little interest in the degree or college life in general but just see it as a mean to an ends until they can hopefully go pro. If it's truly that bad (& I think the NCAA is idiocy personified...right up there w/ the IRS), why even go to college? I could be wrong, but can't they immediately play for cash in the CFL, the Arena League, the CBA, Europe, etc? If they need the money so desperately & are trying to become a pro ASAP, why not bypass college altogether b/c I can imagine it's miserable trying to stay academically eligible even though there's no plan &/or interest in the degree plus they can't work a job to make money & if they could, there'd be little time for it. So why bother?
 

Irish#1

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Let's assume, for agrument's sake; that most of the major D1 football & bball players have little interest in the degree or college life in general but just see it as a mean to an ends until they can hopefully go pro. If it's truly that bad (& I think the NCAA is idiocy personified...right up there w/ the IRS), why even go to college? I could be wrong, but can't they immediately play for cash in the CFL, the Arena League, the CBA, Europe, etc? If they need the money so desperately & are trying to become a pro ASAP, why not bypass college altogether b/c I can imagine it's miserable trying to stay academically eligible even though there's no plan &/or interest in the degree plus they can't work a job to make money & if they could, there'd be little time for it. So why bother?

Most people feel those aren't valid avenues to the NFL. Your best opportunity is to play college ball, but as we all know the truth is 98% of these players won't get there. That means their skill set is not nearly as good as they think it is.
 

IRISHDODGER

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Most people feel those aren't valid avenues to the NFL. Your best opportunity is to play college ball, but as we all know the truth is 98% of these players won't get there. That means their skill set is not nearly as good as they think it is.

Why aren't they valid avenues to the NFL?
 

dales5050

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Actually, this was a common sense change to a rule that brought about situations like this one:


My comment was based off the NCAA not having or using common sense. In this case I think it's safe to say they were a blind dog finding a bone. :)
 

dales5050

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Pay the athletes, huh?

Dat Title IX doe...

From an ESPN Post:

"Title IX guarantees gender equality in athletic opportunities. The courts have now developed, through years of case law, what that entails. It is very well established case law where the courts have said the opportunities have to be equal in all respects. It includes the accommodations and conditions around those opportunities."

Here is the thing. Title IX is already being 'broken' if you follow it to the letter of the law. I am specifically talking about Section 3. Treatment. This is a huge grey area in my opinion.

For example, just what is even close to the new Oregon football facility for women there?

Going back to the quote, I think the key word here is opportunity. If they can find a way to provide equal access to the opportunity for compensation but allow the market to set the price, that would shift the problem to outside of the schools.

Say they were to compensate all athletes equally for 'performance of engagement' meaning you would pay an equal flat fee to each student, each season. This number could be manageable.

You then could add a bonus layer that any athlete could earn but base it off something like a % of the TV contract for each sport or conference. This would spin things out of whack for parity in compensation unless ESPN and advertising somehow found value in paying a Billion dollars for women's swimming events. But it would also be fair.
 

kmoose

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My comment was based off the NCAA not having or using common sense. In this case I think it's safe to say they were a blind dog finding a bone. :)

You have to understand that what makes sense ("common sense") to us fans, is not exactly the same as what makes sense, from the NCAA members' point of view. I think a lot of people use these issues like limits on the value of food that is provided to athletes, to further their own desire to see college athletes get paid. I think those people are misguided. Not dumb, not malevolent, but simply misguided. Inequity exists everywhere in life. It's not doing anyone any good, to try to shelter them from this fact. None of these athletes are living in squalor. They have real housing, real food, real clothing. All they have to do is bide their time for a few years, for a shot at making money that will make them part of the "1%". I don't think that's too much to ask. And they get a free education in that time. Whiskey could probably tell us what the difference is, over a lifetime, between having a degree from Notre Dame and a degree from Jerkwater Community College. How about we add that to the "compensation" that student-athletes receive? The VAST majority of monies that the schools receive, based on athletic competition, goes back into the school. It is reinvested in real property, increased travel experiences for the athletes, better facilities for the athletes, and better professors and coaches. I get the idea that it would be ideal if the monies generated from college sports went directly back to the students performing in those activities, but that's just not the way the world works. My CEO drives a brand new (2014... he upgrades every two years) Mercedes C class and owns a very nice condo about a block from the beach in Port Hueneme, CA. I do 95% of the actual work, and I live in a 2BR apartment built 33 years ago, and drive a Subaru. I would love to make more, but I have a pretty decent gig. So do these student-athletes...
 

dales5050

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None of these athletes are living in squalor. They have real housing, real food, real clothing. All they have to do is bide their time for a few years, for a shot at making money that will make them part of the "1%". I don't think that's too much to ask.

I would not use the term bide their time. While they do not live in squalor, they are being asked to essentially work a full time job AND go to school. At least the ones who do not cheat.

Now that is not a big undertaking because plenty of college kids do that...but they also get a paycheck.

And they get a free education in that time. Whiskey could probably tell us what the difference is, over a lifetime, between having a degree from Notre Dame and a degree from Jerkwater Community College. How about we add that to the "compensation" that student-athletes receive?

Two points on this.

1 - The education part has flaws because 4 years are not currently guaranteed. The value of from [University] v. Jerkwater Community College is based on the degree...not attending.

2 - A college education for me is really valued with how much you actually get out of it. If you're forced to just do what's needed to remain eligible, you're not getting the full value there.

For me, until 4 or 5 years is guaranteed at a school to a student athlete in exchange for them playing a sport it's not valid to use the 'education as compensation' argument.

Notre Dame does it right but most schools don't.

The VAST majority of monies that the schools receive, based on athletic competition, goes back into the school. It is reinvested in real property, increased travel experiences for the athletes, better facilities for the athletes, and better professors and coaches.

A lot of that money is wasted. It's spent...simply to be spend. Everyone knows that. That is the game.

I get the idea that it would be ideal if the monies generated from college sports went directly back to the students performing in those activities, but that's just not the way the world works. My CEO drives a brand new (2014... he upgrades every two years) Mercedes C class and owns a very nice condo about a block from the beach in Port Hueneme, CA. I do 95% of the actual work, and I live in a 2BR apartment built 33 years ago, and drive a Subaru. I would love to make more, but I have a pretty decent gig. So do these student-athletes...

Here is the thing about your comparison. You consider your deal acceptable. That's fine. But you have the choice to change it. You can start your own company and get paid 100% on the 95% of the work you do. But there are risks there. Nothing wrong with your deal.

That said, I don't have the right to say if your deal is fair or not. And you're really not in the position to say if a kid playing football at an SEC school is getting a good deal. It's a personal decision.

My personal opinion is a majority of the kids playing college football place little value on the education. They all talk the game but they really just want a good chance of making the NFL and they would be happy with the opportunity to place 100% of their focus on this goal for a period of 3-4 years. Hell, many already do....

Beyond this, ESPN does not really care if it's Michigan v. Notre Dame or a semi pro league playing. As long as they can fill their schedule with football games that people want to watch...that's all that matters. The same can be said about the NFL. They really don't care about the student athlete or their education. They just want the best possible farm system for their league. Now ESPN and the NFL are not going to come out and say this but that's the reality in my opinion.

So how long does it take for some group of very rich people to see the wall coming down and get ahead of the game? How long before you see a professional farm system for football players in the US. You would not even need a big league.

Just what would college football look like if a league of just 16 teams existed where players were paid $50K a year and were able to train year round. Just what does the 'value' an education look like to a kid where his whole family makes less than ~$20k a year.

Just how much would ESPN be willing to pay the SEC for their games when the majority of the top 100 players each year are playing semi-pro football rather than playing for a coach making $5M a year?

The VAST majority of monies you talked about would become much smaller. It would be MAC or Conference USA type funds.
 

kmoose

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I would not use the term bide their time. While they do not live in squalor, they are being asked to essentially work a full time job AND go to school. At least the ones who do not cheat.

No. They CHOOSE to do so. No one is entitled to a career as a professional football player. Neither is anyone forced into it. They don't HAVE to play college football. They could apply for aid, get jobs, live at home, and go to Community College.
 

GoIrish41

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No. They CHOOSE to do so. No one is entitled to a career as a professional football player. Neither is anyone forced into it. They don't HAVE to play college football. They could apply for aid, get jobs, live at home, and go to Community College.

This exchange with dale is wonderful ... Please don't let me interrupt. Reps to both of you
 

IRISHDODGER

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No. They CHOOSE to do so. No one is entitled to a career as a professional football player. Neither is anyone forced into it. They don't HAVE to play college football. They could apply for aid, get jobs, live at home, and go to Community College.

Exactly. If it's money these kids need/want, why don't they go to the CFL or Arena League or in the case of basketball, they can go to Europe or the DLeague. Why don't they?

Also, a lot of them are eligible for Pell Grants and get a check periodically throughout the year. The kid from UConn has no credibility IMO when w/in one year of being in college he is goes from a blank canvas to covered in tattoos. Either someone hooked him up w/ free tattoos or he paid for them.
 
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FearTheBeard

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Ill also add...that yes while those other college kids working a full time job get a paycheck, that paycheck goes to pay for their housing, food, tuition, books etc. Athletes scholarships are covering all of that, they dont need paychecks because theyre effectively being paid by the school paying for their housing, food, tuition and books. Any of these college athletes acting like theyre hurting for food or anything are full of shit
 

GowerND11

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Very simplistic view here....

I would have done anything to be able to play major college football (ride the bench for four years would have been perfectly fine) while obtaining my degree and coming out debt free.
 

IRISHDODGER

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Look at the number of players in the NFL that played in the CFL, Arena, etc.. That number is very very small.

You're missing my point. If they truly want to be paid for their services then my point is there are avenues to do that. They don't do that, however; b/c D1 major college football provides something none of those minor professional leagues can come close to: exposure to millions through television rights that college football conferences (& ND) have w/ the networks. All we hear is that these poor downtrodden athletes who are responsible for the success of their schools' teams which leads to multi-million dollar tv deals for the conferences should get at least a small cut. Never is a value placed on the exposure D1 football affords these athletes. They don't want to go play for "food/clothes/date money" they could earn in some minor league where they would dominate the weak competition b/c they would miss the perks & exposure of being a D1 college football player.
 

Irish Insanity

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Very simplistic view here....

I would have done anything to be able to play major college football (ride the bench for four years would have been perfectly fine) while obtaining my degree and coming out debt free.

On the other hand, some who have that option don't appreciate it. Or don't desire that. For some the sport is more important than the degree at the end.
 

dales5050

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No. They CHOOSE to do so. No one is entitled to a career as a professional football player. Neither is anyone forced into it. They don't HAVE to play college football. They could apply for aid, get jobs, live at home, and go to Community College.

The subject here has nothing to do with being a professional football player.

You are right in that they do not have to play college football. They do not have to make that commitment. But it does not appear that your new nuclear winter position is taking into account just what happens if they don't make that commitment.

Do you really think NBC is going to pay what it does to televise ND games if the team is made up of 2 team all catholic conference players from the mid west and New England? They already made the Rudy movie.


edit: second paragraph.
 
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kmoose

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The subject here has nothing to do with being a professional football player.

You are right in that they do not have to play college football. They do not have to make that commitment. But it does not appear that your new nuclear winter position is taking into account just what happens if they do.

Do you really think NBC is going to pay what it does to televise ND games if the team is made up of 2 team all catholic conference players from the mid west and New England? They already made the Rudy movie.

I think that, 25-30 years from now, the landscape of television will have changed so dramatically, that this is going to be a non-issue. Television is moving toward "on-demand" delivery services, mostly over broadband internet connections. How long do you think it is going to be until a school like ND realizes that they can stream their own telecast over the internet, into millions of homes, without the networks, and keep all of the advertising revenue? No satellite trucks needed. A $300 GoPro camera is already way better than the top of the line television cameras from 20 years ago. As the streaming delivery services become more sophisticated and commonplace, it is only a matter of time before schools looking to maximize their brand just completely cut out the middleman and generate their revenue straight from the advertisers.
 

dales5050

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Very simplistic view here....

I would have done anything to be able to play major college football (ride the bench for four years would have been perfectly fine) while obtaining my degree and coming out debt free.


Here is the thing about your view....

I would not want to watch you living the dream and playing major college football and Notre Dame or any other school is not going to give you an education in exchange for playing football for the same reasons.

It's major college football because of the players. Not the coaches. Not the schools. Not the stadiums. Not the tradition. It's the players.

To put this in context, just what kind of TV and sponsorship deals have Harvard, Princeton, Yale and Penn inked recently?

The reality is College Football is a Billion dollar industry. The NFL could go away and watching 18-22 year old kids would still be worth tens of Billions. These kids put out a very, very high level product.

At some point the system is going to fail and someone or a group of people are going to come along and see how to disrupt the existing system. That's just how economies evolve and the product of 'college football' is a 10's of billions dollar economy.

edit: product not produce. :)
 
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