The World University Ranking 2013-14

[nsisk157]

World University Rankings 2013-2014 - Times Higher Education

Interesting to peruse...

ND clocks in at #90...

 

[peoriairish]

U of I is at #29 but ND is #90? Da fuh?

 

[IrishLax]

Still ridiculous methodology, still irrelevant... literally 62.5% based on the research/contributions of faculty. Another 7.5% based on the QUANTITY of international faculty and students. Because, you know, those kinds of things have such an impact on the education one receives..................

Then 30% on "teaching"... a very large portion of this is just a survey of "peers." It's well known and accepted that Catholic schools get destroyed in this type of "peer" rating, and non-Jesuit schools even get it worse. If you've ever looked at USN&WR, where ND hovers somewhere between 17 and 20 every year, the one criterion holding ND back is always the "peer survey" worth 20%. In that field, ND is always scoring somewhere in the 40s while the objective marks put them in the mid-to-low teens.

In short, I absolute hate this garbage because inevitably there is someone on Facebook going "MSU ranked #28! Haha ND is #317!" I guess this year the biggest outlier is Washington (#25) ... Vandy #88? ND #90?

In the public realm, UVA is widely considered one of the top public schools in the country (and is EXTREMELY selective relative to a place like Washington) and checks in at #112.

Notice how there is UC Berkley #8, LA #12, Santa Barbara #33, San Diego #40, Davis #52... all better than Rice and Brown.

Just the dumbest list ever assembled on so many levels.

 

[GATTACA!]

Still ridiculous methodology, still irrelevant... literally 62.5% based on the research/contributions of faculty. Another 7.5% based on the QUANTITY of international faculty and students. Because, you know, those kinds of things have such an impact on the education one receives..................

Then 30% on "teaching"... a very large portion of this is just a survey of "peers." It's well known and accepted that Catholic schools get destroyed in this type of "peer" rating, and non-Jesuit schools even get it worse. If you've ever looked at USN&WR, where ND hovers somewhere between 17 and 20 every year, the one criterion holding ND back is always the "peer survey" worth 20%. In that field, ND is always scoring somewhere in the 40s while the objective marks put them in the mid-to-low teens.

In short, I absolute hate this garbage because inevitably there is someone on Facebook going "MSU ranked #28! Haha ND is #317!" I guess this year the biggest outlier is Washington (#25) ... Vandy #88? ND #90?

In the public realm, UVA is widely considered one of the top public schools in the country (and is EXTREMELY selective relative to a place like Washington) and checks in at #112.

Notice how there is UC Berkley #8, LA #12, Santa Barbara #33, San Diego #40, Davis #52... all better than Rice and Brown.

Just the dumbest list ever assembled on so many levels.

Thank you i didnt have the words to put together a proper response, you nailed it.

 

[chubler]

Further breakdown of scores:

International Outlook
2.5% ratio of international to domestic students
2.5% ratio of international to domestic faculty
2.5% proportion of a university's total research journal publications that have at least one international co-author

Research
18% "reputation for research excellence among its peers, based on the 10,000-plus responses to our annual academic reputation survey"
6% research income, scaled against staff numbers and normalized for purchasing-power parity and inequality of grant size by subject area.
6% number of papers published in the academic journals indexed by Thomson Reuters per academic, scaled for a University's total size and normalized for subject

Research Influence
30% frequency of citation in the same journals, normalized to reflect variations in citation volume between different subject areas.

Innovation
2.5% research income from industry scaled by faculty numbers

Teaching
15% perceived prestige in teaching, from the same survey of academia used for research reputation
4.5% Student:Faculty ratio
2.5% Doctorate:Undergrad ratio
6% Number of Postdocs scaled for size and frequency of PhD's awarded in the field
2.25% institutional income scaled by faculty numbers

I typed up a detailed breakdown of why their metric is almost entirely useless, and I can post it if anyone cares, but it comes down to this: Several of their metrics for good teaching are well-documented as indicators of BAD teaching. Same goes for innovation- they're rewarding quite literally the opposite of innovation. They have no idea how grant money is awarded or why papers get cited, and 63% of the ranking is based on those criteria. And their international metrics make little or no sense outside of Europe, unless we consider Rhode Island and Massachusetts as countries now.

This is what happens when journalists or bureaucrats try to quantify science without taking the time to learn how things work on the ground. Glad we all can see that it's entirely useless.

 

[dublinirish]

#161 is where its at fella's

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Purdue better than nd.
I knew I chose this school for a reason! /s

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Read thread title. Get annoyed. Open thread. Read posts by LAX and chubler. Feel better. Close thread.

It's like I'm not even needed around here anymore.

 

[no.1IrishFan]

Read thread title. Get annoyed. Open thread. Read posts by LAX and chubler. Feel better. Close thread.

It's like I'm not even needed around here anymore.

Haha.
When I read the thread title I just assumed you had started it.

 

[IrishLax]

The World's Most Reputable Universities In 2014 - Forbes

This article has some quotes in it from the people who do it. The London based magazine that puts it talks about the "survey" procedure they do to compile this "subjective" list. Any doubt that all of the California schools vote for themselves as a block? No.

And now I bring you this tweet which is why I fucking hate this list: <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Academics 1st RT <a href="https://twitter.com/Cal">@Cal</a>: <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Berkeley&src=hash">#Berkeley</a> in the top 10! "The World's Most Reputable Universities In 2014" <a href="http://t.co/zjrdc6yR15">http://t.co/zjrdc6yR15</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23cal&src=hash">#cal</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23gobears&src=hash">#gobears</a></p>— Justin Hopkins (@JHopkins247) <a href="https://twitter.com/JHopkins247/statuses/441624929016877056">March 6, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

We all know Cal has the worst graduation rate in FBS, yet you have a 247 guy pimping them as "academics first." SMH.

 

[tussin]

Not a single liberal arts school on the list. Are they excluded?

 

[chubler]

Not a single liberal arts school on the list. Are they excluded?

from this ranking, yes, unless they have significant research activity. But the methodology also uses large numbers of grad students and postdocs as indicators of good teaching, so basically all the list is useful for fluffing the egos of second-rate European and Chinese Universities and big state schools in the US.

 

[IrishLax]

These rankings are fine if people appreciate them for what they are... which is a dick measuring contest between faculties and their respective research at institutions.

When people (erroneously) try to say it has a bearing on anything related to undergraduate education, it makes me roll my eyes so hard. The average student who attends Arizona is ... compared to the average student who attends ND. Doesn't even come close to passing the sniff test.