Secrets Of The Vatican.

[BobD]

Just curious if anyone else will be watching. I've got the DVR set.

Secrets of the Vatican | FRONTLINE | PBS

 

[BGIF]

#1. Jesus is a Jew.



My "Christian" friends get bent out of shape whenever I mention that.

 

[wizards8507]

#1. Jesus is a Jew.

My "Christian" friends get bent out of shape whenever I mention that.

That's like saying "the Wright brothers once traveled by train," "Walt Disney was a failed cartoonist," or "Gutenberg wrote his letters by hand."

 

[TheRealLynch51]

That's like saying "the Wright brothers once traveled by train," "Walt Disney was a failed cartoonist," or "Gutenberg wrote his letters by hand."

Facts are facts still.

 

[wizards8507]

Facts are facts still.

Nah, sometimes facts are "being a smartass to irritate people on purpose."

 

[ACamp1900]

#1. Jesus is a Jew who likes his football.

FIFY

 

[Redbar]

Nah, sometimes facts are "being a smartass to irritate people on purpose."

How and why would stating that Jesus is a Jew, warrant one being called a smart ass and irritate people?

 

[wizards8507]

How and why would stating that Jesus is a Jew, warrant one being called a smart ass and irritate people?

When you go out of your way to say it to your (air quote) Christian friends and then take pride in the fact that they "get bent out of shape"?

 

[ACamp1900]

When you go out of your way to say it to your (air quote) Christian friends and then take pride in the fact that they "get bent out of shape"?

Jesus would probably say, "Your Christian friends and I are having dinner later... it would be wonderful if you could join us." and then hug him..../

 

[Redbar]

Right. If religion is about truth and not simply re-enforcing peoples cultural biases that doesn't make sense to me. At the risk of being an insensitive smartass I will also point out that Jesus was not a blue eyed, blond-ish lad. I hope that doesn't change things for anyone.

 

[Domina Nostra]

Right. If religion is about truth and not simply re-enforcing peoples cultural biases that doesn't make sense to me. At the risk of being an insensitive smartass I will also point out that Jesus was not a blue eyed, blond-ish lad. I hope that doesn't change things for anyone.

Who are these Christians?

- Catholics and Orthodox certainly don't prefer blond depictions of Jesus. (I'm sure you point out to the hispanic Catholics that the Virgin was not hispanic, like she is in their favorite image of her)
- Evengelicals travel in mass to Israel and are the biggest supporters of that country. I'd be suprised if they don't depict him as mediterranean almost 100% of the time.
- Not Black Churches, obviously (I'm sure you point out to black people that Jesus wasn't black)
- Episcopalians and Methodists are generally hyper-educated, so they are well aware that they should be embarrased by non-diverse "white" depictions of Jesus.

The fact is that it is goal #1 of our education system and entertainment industry to make sure that we are not "simply re-enforcing peoples cultural biases." That is all we ever hear about. It's a constant drumbeat (just ask Jerry Sinefeld). What you are doing is not even slightly thought-provoking.

So all you are doing is making fun of blue collar or poor, less-educated people. Country folk. I guess that's fine because they are white, but it is certainly tiring to hear people patronizing their lessers (here intellectual) for being so embarrasing.

 

[Redbar]

I am responding to Wizard's assertion that BGIF pointing out to his Christian friends that Jesus was a Jew was in some way a smartass statement or should irritate them. I am not sure what you are talking about.

 

[IrishinTN]

Arent you glad you asked, Bob?

 

[wizards8507]

Right. If religion is about truth and not simply re-enforcing peoples cultural biases that doesn't make sense to me. At the risk of being an insensitive smartass I will also point out that Jesus was not a blue eyed, blond-ish lad. I hope that doesn't change things for anyone.

I'm sure YOU think you're clever. That's one, at least.

I am responding to Wizard's assertion that BGIF pointing out to his Christian friends that Jesus was a Jew was in some way a smartass statement or should irritate them. I am not sure what you are talking about.

The FACT that Jesus was Jewish is not a thing that should irritate them. Marginalizing their faith by throwing air quotes around "Christian" would probably irritate them. Pointing out what you think is a clever quip about Jesus following a faith different than Christianity for no apparent purpose would probably irritate them, too.

Also, pointing out that the subject of a religion was once a member of a different religion is just an absurd point in the first place, seeing that Christianity exists because He made it so.

 

[pkt77242]

I'm sure YOU think you're clever. That's one, at least.


The FACT that Jesus was Jewish is not a thing that should irritate them. Marginalizing their faith by throwing air quotes around "Christian" would probably irritate them. Pointing out what you think is a clever quip about Jesus following a faith different than Christianity for no apparent purpose would probably irritate them, too.

Also, pointing out that the subject of a religion was once a member of a different religion is just an absurd point in the first place, seeing that Christianity exists because He made it so.

He wasn't once Jewish. He was always Jewish. Just saying.

 

[Redbar]

I'm sure YOU think you're clever. That's one, at least.

Well I'm not going to start posting my SAT score or something juvenile like that, that some like to do from time to time.

The FACT that Jesus was Jewish is not a thing that should irritate them. Marginalizing their faith by throwing air quotes around "Christian" would probably irritate them. Pointing out what you think is a clever quip about Jesus following a faith different than Christianity for no apparent purpose would probably irritate them, too.

Also, pointing out that the subject of a religion was once a member of a different religion is just an absurd point in the first place, seeing that Christianity exists because He made it so.

My brother always tells me that being offended is 100% a choice. I mostly agree with that. If a fact or truth makes someone feel their faith is being marginalized, there isn't much I can say.

 

[tussin]

The paradigm has shifted and it's more typically the atheists who marginalize the religious faithful and not the other way around.

 

[ACamp1900]

For the record, Jesus came to me last night, he told me he can get me out of this mess, but he's pretty sure RedBar and Wiz are both fucked...

note: he had blue eyes.

 

[tussin]

My brother always tells me that being offended is 100% a choice. I mostly agree with that. If a fact or truth makes someone feel their faith is being marginalized, there isn't much I can say.

It's about decency and respect. When someone marginalizes another's faith it does nothing to prove a point or stimulate actual conversation...it just makes them look like an asshole.

If that's how you get your kicks, so be it. Whatever helps your sleep at night.

 

[BobD]

Arent you glad you asked, Bob?

well I'll be watching......I can check in on whatever the hell they're talking about here during commercials.

 

[Redbar]

It's about decency and respect. When someone marginalizes another's faith it does nothing to prove a point or stimulate actual conversation...it just makes them look like an asshole.

If that's how you get your kicks, so be it. Whatever helps your sleep at night.

Where did I personally marginalize anyone's faith? Let me know because this thread isn't that long. I know a lot about decency and respect, I am not saying that I would even say it, but any Christian that gets upset by a friend pointing out that Jesus was a Jew, IMO really needs to reflect on the message of the Man.

P.S. I'll take my brother's advice and choose not to be offended by the asshole insinuation, although I would say in this case it does prove a point (maybe not in the direction intended) and maybe some will think, even stimulated the conversation.

 

[tussin]

Where did I personally marginalize anyone's faith? Let me know because this thread isn't that long. I know a lot about decency and respect, I am not saying that I would even say it, but any Christian that gets upset by a friend pointing out that Jesus was a Jew, IMO really needs to reflect on the message of the Man.

P.S. I'll take my brother's advice and choose not to be offended by the asshole insinuation, although I would say in this case it does prove a point (maybe not in the direction intended) and maybe some will think, even stimulated the conversation.

It's the obvious subtext of the comment. What is the person trying to accomplish by saying that? Another example:

I always like to point out to my "Hindu" friends that they believe in multiple gods.


BTW, I didn't mean to insinuate that you or anyone else in this thread is an asshole.

 

[ACamp1900]

On a better note, I would LOVE full, unobstructed, access to their library and vaults...

 

[wizards8507]

Well I'm not going to start posting my SAT score or something juvenile like that, that some like to do from time to time.

Ah, the classic "my dick is bigger than yours but I'm too classy to show you... trust me."

My brother always tells me that being offended is 100% a choice. I mostly agree with that. If a fact or truth makes someone feel their faith is being marginalized, there isn't much I can say.

I can think a comment or attitude is uncalled for without being offended by it. It's not always what a person says, but why he chooses to say it. A Red Sox fan tells a Yankee fan, "Haha! The Sox have three World Series Championships in the last ten years and the Yankees only have one." The truth of the statement doesn't negate the fact that the reason he went out of his way to MAKE the statement is to be insulting. It's all in good fun when we're talking about sports but Faith and Religion are deeply personal to many people. Do you walk down the street and tell fat people that heart disease can kill them? It would be a factual statement, but it would still be a dick move to go around pointing it out to people unsolicited.

Where did I personally marginalize anyone's faith? Let me know because this thread isn't that long. I know a lot about decency and respect, I am not saying that I would even say it, but any Christian that gets upset by a friend pointing out that Jesus was a Jew, IMO really needs to reflect on the message of the Man.

P.S. I'll take my brother's advice and choose not to be offended by the asshole insinuation, although I would say in this case it does prove a point (maybe not in the direction intended) and maybe some will think, even stimulated the conversation.

If you think describing a comment as "smartass" is the same as calling a person an "asshole" then I'm not even sure where to begin responding.

It's the obvious subtext of the comment. What is the person trying to accomplish by saying that? Another example:

I always like to point out to my "Hindu" friends that they believe in multiple gods.

Exactly. I'm guessing it wouldn't go over too well if I made any of the following comments:

I always like to point out to my "black" friends that slavery existed.

I always like to point out to my "female" friends that they couldn't vote until 1920.

I always like to point out to my "gay" friends that they can't have biological children.

Do you get the point now, Redbar et al? The "truth" of a statement isn't an absolute defense of the propriety of the statement.

 

[ACamp1900]

I'm guessing it wouldn't go over too well if I made any of the following comments:

I always like to point out to my "black" friends that slavery existed.

I always like to point out to my "female" friends that they couldn't vote until 1920.

I always like to point out to my "gay" friends that they can't have biological children.

Do you get the point now, Redbar et al? The "truth" of a statement isn't an absolute defense of the propriety of the statement.

Another example:

I always like to point out to my friends who are ‘Red Sox fans’ that their team was the last to integrate and was insanely racist long after everyone else moved on.

That's actually not true though… ... I would never make friends with ‘Red Sox fans.’

 

[Redbar]

Don't know how to break up a post, my response is bolded.

"Ah, the classic "my dick is bigger than yours but I'm too classy to show you... trust me."- Wizard

No, not at all, because when you posted your SAT score I remember that mine wasn't near that, although I would be lying if I told you I could remember exactly what it was, that is going back a while for me.

"I can think a comment or attitude is uncalled for without being offended by it. It's not always what a person says, but why he chooses to say it. A Red Sox fan tells a Yankee fan, "Haha! The Sox have three World Series Championships in the last ten years and the Yankees only have one." The truth of the statement doesn't negate the fact that the reason he went out of his way to MAKE the statement is to be insulting. It's all in good fun when we're talking about sports but Faith and Religion are deeply personal to many people. Do you walk down the street and tell fat people that heart disease can kill them? It would be a factual statement, but it would still be a dick move to go around pointing it out to people unsolicited.- Wizard

Yeah I get it. That is why I said I "mostly agree" with my brothers outlook.

"If you think describing a comment as "smartass" is the same as calling a person an "asshole" then I'm not even sure where to begin responding."- Wizard

I never called anyone a "smartass" that was you. The "asshole" insinuation was made toward me not by me.

"Do you get the point now, Redbar et al? The "truth" of a statement isn't an absolute defense of the propriety of the statement."- Wizard

I get the point Wizard, thanks for the tutorial. I think you are missing mine though, but more probably you and I are not going to be able to hear each other.

 

[IrishinTN]

And here I thought we were friends, Acamp...darn, can't insert a cry gif from my phone.

 

[GoIrish41]

I can feel the love and christian generosity of spirit from this thread. It is a beautiful example of grace and humanity. So is anyone watching the show?

 

[IrishinTN]

I can feel the love and christian generosity of spirit from this thread. It is a beautiful example of grace and humanity. So is anyone watching the show?

O shut up, a hole...

Sorry, couldn't resist...I keed I keed...

 

[BobD]

It's not on until 9pm here on the west coast, so I probably won't see it until tomorrow. I get up at 4am.