2014 Scholarship/Roster Breakdown

[Brooklyn]

With the announced 4 5th year returnees:

 

[Domina Nostra]

...

 

[Irish YJ]

Nice! Did Dickerson come back?

 

[NDhoosier]

Domina Nostra, thanks for the list, but you put 36) twice. We can only take 3 more recruits to get to 85. Plus, Dickerson is no longer committed.

 

[Domina Nostra]

Domina Nostra, thanks for the list, but you put 36) twice. We can only take 3 more recruits to get to 85. Plus, Dickerson is no longer committed.

Been busy, updated!!!

 

[Domina Nostra]

Updated for the big man.

 

[Domina Nostra]

Updated, I think its right. I switched it to a 4-3...

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Updated, I think its right. I switched it to a 4-3...

I'm looking for some help with my roster. Many of us have noted that our current personnel fits a 4-3 much better than a 3-4, and, despite recent quotes from BvG indicating otherwise, I still think we're going to see something similar to a 4-3 over/under. So I've changed the positional groupings accordingly.

It's easy enough separating out our DL recruits into NTs and SDEs who could kick inside when we go 4-down. The WDEs are pretty easy too, as we've got plenty of ROLBs who don't seem to be good for much outside rushing the passer.

The difficulty lies in sorting our current LB corps between Sam, Mike and Will. Assuming Grace isn't ready to go this fall, I'd expect our starting 4-3 LBs to be Jaylon at Will, Deeb at Mike, and Councell at Sam (if he's healthy). But who backs them up? Schmidt - Moore - Randolph? Is Sykes an ILB or an OLB? Are Hill and Bonner good enough in space to play OLB in a 4-3? Can Moore play anything other than Mike since he's apparently a train wreck in coverage?

 

[Luckylucci]

I'm looking for some help with my roster. Many of us have noted that our current personnel fits a 4-3 much better than a 3-4, and, despite recent quotes from BvG indicating otherwise, I still think we're going to see something similar to 4-3 over/under. So I've changed the positional groupings accordingly.

It's easy enough separating out our DL recruits into NTs and SDEs who could kick inside when we go 4-down. The WDEs are pretty easy too, as we've got plenty of ROLBs who don't seem to be good for much outside rushing the passer.

The difficulty lies in sorting our current LB corps between Sam, Mike and Will. Assuming Grace isn't ready to go this fall, I'd expect our starting 4-3 LBs to be Jaylon at Will, Deeb at Mike, and Councell at Sam (if he's healthy). But who backs them up? Schmidt - Moore - Randolph? Is Sykes an ILB or an OLB? Are Hill and Bonner good enough in space to play OLB in a 4-3? Can Moore play anything other than Mike since he's apparently a train wreck in coverage?

IMO, Sykes is a WILL, Randolph and Hill SAM, Bonner is a DE in a 4-3. Moore I'd do Mike and Schmidt WILL. A little less confident in Schmidt. I don't think Schmidt is as physical as you need to have to be a MLB however in passing situations like last year he could be there.

I'd go
Will- Jaylon, Schmidt, Sykes
Mike- Deeb, Morgan, Moore (I could see the season starting with Moore in front but that changes, IMO)
Sam- Coucell, Randolph, Hill

 

[CanadalovesND]

I'm looking for some help with my roster. Many of us have noted that our current personnel fits a 4-3 much better than a 3-4, and, despite recent quotes from BvG indicating otherwise, I still think we're going to see something similar to a 4-3 over/under. So I've changed the positional groupings accordingly.

It's easy enough separating out our DL recruits into NTs and SDEs who could kick inside when we go 4-down. The WDEs are pretty easy too, as we've got plenty of ROLBs who don't seem to be good for much outside rushing the passer.

The difficulty lies in sorting our current LB corps between Sam, Mike and Will. Assuming Grace isn't ready to go this fall, I'd expect our starting 4-3 LBs to be Jaylon at Will, Deeb at Mike, and Councell at Sam (if he's healthy). But who backs them up? Schmidt - Moore - Randolph? Is Sykes an ILB or an OLB? Are Hill and Bonner good enough in space to play OLB in a 4-3? Can Moore play anything other than Mike since he's apparently a train wreck in coverage?

Typically, a player with a background as a DE, but may be somewhat undersized as a true 4-3 DE, but has good movement skills and athleticism, end up as SAM linebackers.

So, players like Randolph, Rabasa, Sykes and Hill are all potential SAMs.

 

[wizards8507]

There's a stray "end bold" command ([/B]) on the main page next to Steve Elmer.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

IMO, Sykes is a WILL, Randolph and Hill SAM, Bonner is a DE in a 4-3. Moore I'd do Mike and Schmidt WILL. A little less confident in Schmidt. I don't think Schmidt is as physical as you need to have to be a MLB however in passing situations like last year he could be there.

This is right in line with what I was thinking.

I'd go
Will- Jaylon, Schmidt, Sykes
Mike- Deeb, Morgan, Moore (I could see the season starting with Moore in front but that changes, IMO)
Sam- Grace, Randolph, Hill

I could see Grace playing at Sam; he's huge for a 4-3 LB. I assume that's where you'd put Councell as well? And Martini as the 4th Mike?

When you organize our roster this way, a couple things become apparent: (1) 3/4 of our Sam LBs are coming off a season-ending injury, two of which were reportedly very serious; and (2) WLB/ DOLB is a major need in the next cycle.

 

[Emcee77]

This is right in line with what I was thinking.



I could see Grace playing at Sam; he's huge for a 4-3 LB. I assume that's where you'd put Councell as well? And Martini as the 4th Mike?

When you organize our roster this way, a couple things become apparent: (1) 3/4 of our Sam LBs are coming off a season-ending injury, two of which were reportedly very serious; and (2) WLB/ DOLB is a major need in the next cycle.

Interesting experiment. I'm excited to see how this plays out this season. A couple comments (just my$0.02):

(1) Randolph and Okwara are good enough in space to play SLB, and I think some of the guys you have listed as SDEs can move down to WDE.

I'm going off on a bit of a tangent, but Okwara's ability to run and cover is something I have underestimated over the last couple of years. He is strong as a bull but not overly bulky, and the dude runs like a deer. I was really impressed all season with how well he moves. I used to think that he would bulk up into a DE as he got older and stronger, but now I think he is quick and agile enough to stay at OLB and play on either side of the field, except maybe not WLB/DOLB in pure passing situations or against spread teams.

(2) Randolph and Okwara are fine at DOLB when we go three down (again, not ideal in pure passing/spread situations), and Martini can play WLB in four down.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

(1) Randolph and Okwara are good enough in space to play SLB...

Agreed on both. I've got Randolph currently listed at SLB, and I considered Okwara's alleged prowess in space, too; if he's as good as advertised, he could probably even play WLB. But it's hard to tell how much of it is just coach speak, and he seemed to be used mostly as a pass-rusher in 2013.

... and I think some of the guys you have listed as SDEs can move down to WDE.

I expect all of them but Hayes to actually start as WDEs. I'm just projecting for roster management purposes.

I'm going off on a bit of a tangent, but Okwara's ability to run and cover is something I have underestimated over the last couple of years. He is strong as a bull but not overly bulky, and the dude runs like a deer. I was really impressed all season with how well he moves. I used to think that he would bulk up into a DE as he got older and stronger, but now I think he is quick and agile enough to stay at OLB and play on either side of the field, except maybe not WLB/DOLB in pure passing situations or against spread teams.

Maybe I missed some amazing play last season, but following up on my point above, have we really seen Okwara do much in space? I'm trying to separate hype from reality here. Especially when it comes to LBs in coverage, it feels like we end up just regurgitating whatever the coaching staff says in interviews.

 

[IrishLax]

Maybe I missed some amazing play last season, but following up on my point above, have we really seen Okwara do much in space? I'm trying to separate hype from reality here. Especially when it comes to LBs in coverage, it feels like we end up just regurgitating whatever the coaching staff says in interviews.

For his size, he's pretty legit. They've had him up on the interior DL and drop into zone coverage sometimes on passing downs... does a solid job. Did a solid job in limited snaps at DOG. Against Stanford, when Jaylon was getting run over, they had him play DOG almost all game and he had a good combo of coverage + edge setting ability.

I think both he, Councell, and Randolph are solid SAM candidates, because they seem athletic enough to do all the jobs. I mean... we've never seen Randolph do anything really... just my intuition there. For a 4-3, NO WAY that Okwara can play WOLB. Only scenario where you'd line him up there would be against pure power teams.

I think there is a very solid chance that you'd see Ishaq play SDE and Okwara WDE in a 4-3 configuration, with Day/Jones on the inside. That's by far your best pass rushing setup.

 

[Emcee77]

it feels like we end up regurgitating whatever the coaching staff says in interviews.

Lol that's fair enough ... if there's anything we've learned over the past couple of years, we can't rely blindly on what the coaching staff says. If we could, we would have seen Amir Carlisle and C.J. Prosise carry the offense last season, for example.

What I was saying about how well Okwara runs and how surprisingly light and agile he is was based on my own observations, but I won't claim to have personally noticed that he can cover; you were right to suggest that that part was mostly regurgitation of coachspeak. I know they gave him some opportunities in coverage, particularly in that dime D where he would line up at DL and drop back, and I'm sure he was fine but I don't necessarily recall him making a lot of plays either.

 

[Luckylucci]

This is right in line with what I was thinking.



I could see Grace playing at Sam; he's huge for a 4-3 LB. I assume that's where you'd put Councell as well? And Martini as the 4th Mike?

When you organize our roster this way, a couple things become apparent: (1) 3/4 of our Sam LBs are coming off a season-ending injury, two of which were reportedly very serious; and (2) WLB/ DOLB is a major need in the next cycle.

My bad, it should have read Councell. I think Grace is a Mike all the way. And Martini fits into the same mold for me as Schmidt. I don't see him being imposing enough for Mike at this time. So, if I'm CBK, I red shirt him and start him at WILL to see how he moves for a year or two.

 

[Emcee77]

Against Stanford, when Jaylon was getting run over, they had him play DOG almost all game and he had a good combo of coverage + edge setting ability.

True, he made a lot of nice plays in that game.

I think there is a very solid chance that you'd see Ishaq play SDE and Okwara WDE in a 4-3 configuration, with Day/Jones on the inside. That's by far your best pass rushing setup.

Love it. Salivating thinking about it.

On pure passing downs I think we might even have Rochell in place of Jones.

 

[PANDFAN]

True, he made a lot of nice plays in that game.



Love it. Salivating thinking about it.

On pure passing downs I think we might even have Rochell in place of Jones.

idk, even BK said about jarron's length that he is able to get his long arms into passing lanes

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I think there is a very solid chance that you'd see Ishaq play SDE and Okwara WDE in a 4-3 configuration, with Day/Jones on the inside. That's by far your best pass rushing setup.

Blitz the SLB while Jaylon and Deeb drop back into coverage... I like it. Hopefully we'll be able to generate some real pressure this season.

What I was saying about how well Okwara runs and how surprisingly light and agile he is was based on my own observations, but I won't claim to have personally noticed that he can cover; you were right to suggest that that part was mostly regurgitation of coachspeak. I know they gave him some opportunities in coverage, particularly in that dime D where he would line up at DL and drop back, and I'm sure he was fine but I don't necessarily recall him making a lot of plays either.

That's fair. It's probably a more accurate reflection of Okwara's quality to project him at SLB right now rather than WDE. Especially since we don't know how quickly/ fully Councell will rebound, and Randolph is inexperienced.

My bad, it should have read Councell. I think Grace is a Mike all the way. And Martini fits into the same mold for me as Schmidt. I don't see him being imposing enough for Mike at this time. So, if I'm CBK, I red shirt him and start him at WILL to see how he moves for a year or two.

Looks even better this way.

 

[Luckylucci]

For his size, he's pretty legit. They've had him up on the interior DL and drop into zone coverage sometimes on passing downs... does a solid job. Did a solid job in limited snaps at DOG. Against Stanford, when Jaylon was getting run over, they had him play DOG almost all game and he had a good combo of coverage + edge setting ability.

I think both he, Councell, and Randolph are solid SAM candidates, because they seem athletic enough to do all the jobs. I mean... we've never seen Randolph do anything really... just my intuition there. For a 4-3, NO WAY that Okwara can play WOLB. Only scenario where you'd line him up there would be against pure power teams.

I think there is a very solid chance that you'd see Ishaq play SDE and Okwara WDE in a 4-3 configuration, with Day/Jones on the inside. That's by far your best pass rushing setup.

Agreed, however I might add Rochell to the inside instead of Jones. Give us a Giants Nascar package look.

 

[Emcee77]

On pure passing downs I think we might even have Rochell in place of Jones.

Agreed, however I might add Rochell to the inside instead of Jones. Give us a Giants Nascar package look.

Great minds, homie.

 

[Luckylucci]

Blitz the SLB while Jaylon and Deeb drop back into coverage... I like it. Hopefully we'll be able to generate some real pressure this season.



That's fair. It's probably a more accurate reflection of Okwara's quality to project him at SLB right now rather than WDE. Especially since we don't know how quickly/ fully Councell will rebound, and Randolph is inexperienced.



Looks even better this way.

Yea much better. With some flexibility as well. Whats your best 4-3 lineup. I have Rochell SDE, Jones and Day DT, Ishaq WDE. Okwara SAM, Morgan MIKE, and Jaylon WILL. That would be fun to watch.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Yea much better. With some flexibility as well. Whats your best 4-3 lineup. I have Rochell SDE, Jones and Day DT, Ishaq WDE. Okwara SAM, Morgan MIKE, and Jaylon WILL. That would be fun to watch.

Mine is very similar. For DL: Rochell at SDE, Day at DT, Jones at NT, and I. Williams at WDE.

Assuming Grace and Councell won't be ready to go by fall camp, at LB: Jaylon at WLB, Deeb at MLB, and Okwara at SLB.

 

[irishog77]

Sorry, this is a bit of a rambling post. But glad you brought this up, Whiskey, as it touches on a variety of issues.

My initial thinking is that the "multiple" talk we're hearing is coach-speak. I think ND will be a 3-4 team...and a lot of times drop an Ishaq or a Romeo onto the DL. Same as before. Yes, though, I think we will see much more 1-gapping from the DL, regardless of how many line up down. I think perhaps the '15 season is maybe when we would see a move to a more 4-3 look.

I brought up before that once ND started bringing in all of the supposed CAT's (Bonner, Hill, Yeargin, Trumbetti, Williams) that it seemed like the staff was recruiting for both a 4-3 and a 3-4. And at first glance, that sounds great-- ND will be able to put any defensive front out there. The problem is that in college, guys don't have enough practice time, nor enough time/maturity for their bodies to strengthen/develop. At least they don't compared to professionals. Professionals can find all kinds of 245+lbers to run all over the field. They can also find 295+lbers to put on the DL. In college, it's much harder to find guys that can carry a certain weight...but still be expected to make plays. Could this cycle be a bit like the Seahawks approach? Go after guys who are, more or less, specialists? I hope that’s the thinking. Otherwise, there seems to be a bit of an attitude of “let’s throw something against the wall, and see what sticks.” Now I know BK isn’t like this. But part of me is baffled—while I like the depth across the front 7 now, I hope it all actually translates onto the playing field and whatever the scheme is.

Without knowing more about BVG and BK's plans with/for BVG, I think it is hard to predict what LB's would be Sam's or Will's in a 4-3. In one sense, a guy like Smith would be ideal as a Will-- let him use his speed and ability in space to run all over the field and make plays. I could see Jimmy Johnson absolutely drooling over Smith when he was head coach the Hurricanes, and then as coach of the Cowboys. But, perhaps his greatest attribute is his ability to cover. Why line him up at Will when you can line him up at Sam and allow him to cover a TE? The guy has legitimate CB-coverage skills. If Councell is healthy, I think he and Smith as OLB's could be downright nasty-- coverage, pass rushing, pursuit, and ability to play in space. As far as Mike’s go, again I think it’ll depend on what they want out of him. (Bringing in a Seahwaks analogy again), Bobby Wagner has been awesome in his short time as a pro. He’s a MLB now, but was basically a Shembo/Williams/CAT as a college player. I bring him up only because I think we may make too much of some of the LB’s on the roster weight and build. I think a variety of kids on the roster could be good Mike’s—it depends on what they staff wants out of him.

So without knowing more of what is expected out of the LB’s (chip-vs-coverage, contain-vs-pursuit, run downhill-vs-analyze), I think it’s hard to know what we’re looking at, roster-wise.

Okwara. I love Okwara. I think, however, while he has been a great team player and filled whatever role the coaches have asked him to fill (admirably), with 50% of his career in the rearview mirror, I’m not sure if he’ll ever be “great” at anything—just a jack-of-all-trades. While every good team needs those guys, I think it may prevent him from personally ever being a great DE/SAM/WILL/CAT/DOG. Part of me would like for the staff to stick him somewhere (anywhere), and let him try and flourish there. I can envision (not saying it will happen, just that I can see a similar scenario) guys like Hill, Williams, Sykes, Martini, Blankenship, and Trumbetti falling into this as well—never given a specific position to learn, grow, and flourish; but, rather, fills in and gets the job done whenever called upon.

The last part concerns me a little, going forward, because I think that philosophy works better when you’re the less talented team trying to eke out a win. I think winning a Natty truly requires certain levels of domination.

Why all the love for Deeb? Especially compared to Moore and Schmidt? While I don’t think Moore nor Schmidt are true BCS/Playoff level starting MLB’s, they’re upperclassmen who have answered the call and been relied upon to contribute. Deeb has not (yet anyway). I could definitely see both of them playing ahead of Deeb. Is the belief that Deeb will squarely be in the mix of actually playing based more on his ability…or on the fact that, as stated above, the others are upperclassmen…but still haven’t fully grasped the opportunity? In other words, by default?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Why all the love for Deeb? Especially compared to Moore and Schmidt? While I don’t think Moore nor Schmidt are true BCS/Playoff level starting MLB’s, they’re upperclassmen who have answered the call and been relied upon to contribute. Deeb has not (yet anyway). I could definitely see both of them playing ahead of Deeb. Is the belief that Deeb will squarely be in the mix of actually playing based more on his ability…or on the fact that, as stated above, the others are upperclassmen…but still haven’t fully grasped the opportunity? In other words, by default?

A little bit of both. Deeb's senior tape was truly excellent; I think he's got the size, instincts and mentality to be a complete MLB. Moore has good athleticism and hits hard, but his instincts are terrible and he's allegedly a major liability in coverage. I think Schmidt simply lacks the size and physicality to play MLB in a 4-3; but he's demonstrated good coverage skills in 2013, so I think he'll make a good back-up at WLB. And Grace would be starting over Deeb, but for his gruesome injury; I very much doubt he'll be recovered in time to vie for #1 MLB. In fact, I'll be grateful if he comes back as a meaningful contributor at all after breaking his leg in 4 places.

So, while I'm legitimately excited about Deeb based on his own merits, he likely starts by default regardless.

 

[Brooklyn]

I'm looking for some help with my roster. Many of us have noted that our current personnel fits a 4-3 much better than a 3-4, and, despite recent quotes from BvG indicating otherwise, I still think we're going to see something similar to a 4-3 over/under. So I've changed the positional groupings accordingly.

It's easy enough separating out our DL recruits into NTs and SDEs who could kick inside when we go 4-down. The WDEs are pretty easy too, as we've got plenty of ROLBs who don't seem to be good for much outside rushing the passer.

The difficulty lies in sorting our current LB corps between Sam, Mike and Will. Assuming Grace isn't ready to go this fall, I'd expect our starting 4-3 LBs to be Jaylon at Will, Deeb at Mike, and Councell at Sam (if he's healthy). But who backs them up? Schmidt - Moore - Randolph? Is Sykes an ILB or an OLB? Are Hill and Bonner good enough in space to play OLB in a 4-3? Can Moore play anything other than Mike since he's apparently a train wreck in coverage?

Ideally, to me SLB is more of a run stopper/blitzer, MLB is the all around guy and WLB is the playmaker.

How I've got them:

SLB: Ben Councell - Kendall Moore - Greer Martini - Kolin Hill
MLB: Jarrett Grace - Michael Deeb - Nyles Morgan - Joe Schmidt
WLB: Jaylon Smith - Doug Randolph - Nile Sykes

Ben, Kendall and Kolin would be exclusive SLB imo.

Sykes to me with his persuit ability and movement is best suited for WLB. He can play MLB in a pinch. Bonner seems a little more stiff and bigger, but I think Hill can be an excellent blitzing linebacker next year. Moore would have to eat up blockers and probably be a two down player if he plays.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

A look at this years Jets defense puts things into perspective :

However, New York features dynamic personnel groupings on defense, allowing the team to mix and match at the line of scrimmage.

(Ryan) BVG likes a big run-stopper in there with either three or four man front packages. 0 moves to 1 or 2. He doesn't like to have his defenders two gap in either front.

What they do is sometimes even exchange linebackers for defensive ends and move their bigger guys a bit inside. The Ryan defense features fast flowing linebackers, linebackers on the edge with their hands in the dirt who can bring pressure in a NY second from the outside, big run stoppers on the inside with long arms that can impede, obscure, or interrupt passing lanes.

BVG may use 8-10 linebackers and four or more defensive linemen to back the line and set the edge. I think he will give offenses fits. But he wants his linebackers F-A-S-T! Will he use ND's linebackers or convert DB's. I don't think he needs the weight that BD did. And I think a few guys that fell in the cracks, (Utupo, Rasaba, and Moore will have a heyday in BVG's system).

Here is the personnel adjustment made from '12 to '13 (without, then with BVG) :

In one year, the Jets managed to turn a weakness into a strength. They dropped to 21st last season (4.32), an embarrassing low for a Ryan-coached defense. How'd they improve so much so fast? Four reasons:

An immovable nose tackle: First-year starter Damon Harrison is a significant upgrade over Sione Po'uha, who was rendered ineffective last season because of a back injury that has forced him out of football. The Jets allow a paltry 2.5 yards per rush when Harrison is on the field, 2.9 when he's not. Enough said.

The Sheldon Factor: Mike DeVito was a solid, blue-collar run stuffer for the Jets, but they let him walk in free agency and replaced him with rookie Sheldon Richardson, who wasn't regarded as a superior run defender in college. Richardson has altered that reputation. He leads all rookies with 10.5 backfield stops -- 7.5 tackles behind the line and three sacks. He brings athleticism to the position, allowing Ryan to play an attacking style. The Jets aren't your typical 3-4, read-and-react scheme.

Mo better: Muhammad Wilkerson [defensive end, 6'4" 315lbs, 4.96 combine 40] was a good player last season. Now he's a very good player, having improved his quickness and stamina. He can wreck any blocking scheme.

Faster linebackers: Last year's linebacking corps was dinosaurish. Graybeards Bart Scott and Bryan Thomas were too slow, one of the reasons why the defense allowed so many long runs. They were replaced by Demario Davis and Quinton Coples, who often plays in a three-point stance as the "rush" linebacker. Nothing helps a front seven like youth and speed. "Mike" linebacker David Harris dropped weight in the offseason, improving his lateral quickness. As a result, the Jets have allowed only 16 runs of 10+ yards, the fewest in the league.

An example is taking a guy like Drue or Nicky and bringing him up on the line and shooting him across the tackle while a big lineman takes his outside shoulder and rushes outside and around. The tackle will not even see our guy coming, and no inside guy will pick him up, they will be busy with their assignments.

And for big defensive ends with speed, how about Grant and Jhonny?

 

[Brooklyn]

Rex runs so many different things with the Jets. But like with every defense, its starts with the dline. They have a stud dline and are able to do those things.

But every year the Jets do some different things. You are right, ust like Baltimore though, they do blitz safeties.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Rex runs so many different things with the Jets. But like with every defense, its starts with the dline. They have a stud dline and are able to do those things.

But every year the Jets do some different things. You are right, ust like Baltimore though, they do blitz safeties.

But what makes it devastating is sometimes they are not lined up as safeties!