Replacing Rees

[Kansas Irish]

Even with Golson recently readmitted (btw, congrats G) Kelly is saying there is no guarantee that he would have the starting position. Would Zaire have a legitimate chance of starting while Kizer learns the O? That depth will be sick.

 

[loomis41973]

Zaire has ZERO shot to start, barring injury.

jmo

 

[KPENN]

Coach speak.

 

[Veer option]

Kelly did the same thing before the 2012 season when we pretty much all knew Golson was the starter after the spring game.

 

[RyCo1983]

Coach speak.

THIS

He'll be told he has to "earn" his starting spot. Shouldn't be a problem for him if he invested himself in his time away as he reportedly done.

Zaire's time will come.

 

[bobbyok1]

No way, no how. Kelly is a hardcore system coach. Golson already has both a redshirt season and a full season of playing under his belt, not to mention National Championship game experience. On top of all this he worked with a QB guru in George Whitfield for the entire fall and is coming back stronger physically at 205lbs vs 185 or so, and with better mechanics. Now he gets the off season to polish up for fall of 14'. So no. Golson will start game 1 next season.

 

[BGIF]

Even with Golson recently readmitted (btw, congrats G) Kelly is saying there is no guarantee that he would have the starting position. Would Zaire have a legitimate chance of starting while Kizer learns the O? That depth will be sick.

There are no guarantees even if Kelly issued a 2014 Depth Chart today. Injuries, Academics, Res Life, etc.

That said, if Golson with a redshirt year, an undefeated season, and a semester with QB guru Whitfield under his belt can't beat out a redshirt who hasn't played a game of Div 1 football and was tutored by the same guy that handled the development of Crist, Rees, Hendrix, and Zaire than he needs to take up another sport.

As for the depth, it does look great on paper. But then people drooled over Crist, Hendrix, Golson, and 2 or 3 other guys. How'd that turn out?

 

[Irish Insanity]

Just won offensive player of the year at the NDFB awards

 

[woolybug25]

I think Kelly knows enough about football to make the right call on the QB. He made the right call with Rees over Crist/Hendrix, he made the rights call with Everett/Rees. Hell… he even made the right calls at Cinci.

If Malik gives us a better chance to win every game, then he will start. If he struggled or got hurt, Everett better do what Tommy did for him.

If Everett gives us a better chance to win every game, then he will start. If he struggles or gets hurt, then Malik better be ready to take advantage of his opportunity.

Moral of the story… we will have a dynamic QB next year. One way or the other. I think it will be Golson. But i'm rooting for whatever QB gives us the best chance to win.

 

[Irish YJ]

As said above, pure coach speak. Which is exactly the right thing to do at this point.

One would have to think EG will be better than he was in 2012. Stronger, faster, smarter, more mature. If that's even remotely correct, he's the starter. Unless MZ is the second coming, I think we only see him in mop up time.... which I hope we see him a ton!!

 

[stlnd01]

Zaire would have a shot in the same sense that, say, Isaac Rochell has a "shot" to unseat Stephon Tuitt, should Tuitt come back next year. Stranger things have happened., but don't hold your breath.

 

[woolybug25]

Zaire would have a shot in the same sense that, say, Isaac Rochell has a "shot" to unseat Stephon Tuitt, should Tuitt come back next year. Stranger things have happened., but don't hold your breath.

Comparing Tuitt/Rochelle to Golson/Zaire is quite a stretch, imo.

 

[aubeirish]

If Malik beats Everett, then Malik is a heck of a QB. We are fine either way because we know Everett will be good.

 

[stlnd01]

Comparing Tuitt/Rochelle to Golson/Zaire is quite a stretch, imo.

OK. It's a bit of a stretch. Would you rather the comparison be, say, Daniels/Hunter? Or Niklas/Huerman? Point is, it may be a "competition," but it would take a lot for Zaire to beat out Golson.
Zaire gets good reviews in practice but there's no position on the field where game experience matters like QB. When you've got a guy with 10 wins under his belt, some of them big, close games, and he's a comparable/better talent than the freshman to begin with, he's highly likely to start. That's all.

 

[woolybug25]

OK. It's a bit of a stretch. Would you rather the comparison be, say, Daniels/Hunter? Or Niklas/Huerman? Point is, it may be a "competition," but it would take a lot for Zaire to beat out Golson.
Zaire gets good reviews in practice but there's no position on the field where game experience matters like QB. When you've got a guy with 10 wins under his belt, some of them big, close games, and he's a comparable/better talent than the freshman to begin with, he's highly likely to start. That's all.

It's cool if we disagree. But from what everyone has said around the program, Malik looked excellent this year. Who knows if Golson really got better or declined. I hope and assume that he got better, but if he didn't, Kelly wouldn't blink at playing Malik. The talent difference between Golson and Malik may be far less than any of the players you mentioned. There is just a mental aspect of QB that is different than DE, WR or TE. Zaire also isn't a true freshman like all of the situations you mentioned.

I don't deny that Golson starting is highly likely. But if Zaire is better, he will play. If there is one thing I have learned about college football, its that QB is by far the most difficult position to predict. Especially at Notre Dame.

 

[Meacon Irish]

I don't think anyone is saying Malik won't start if he gives us a better chance to win than Golson. Everybody is just saying, and until we see otherwise rightfully so, that Golson gives us a better chance to win, so he's likely going to start.

 

[stlnd01]

It's cool if we disagree. But from what everyone has said around the program, Malik looked excellent this year. Who knows if Golson really got better or declined. I hope and assume that he got better, but if he didn't, Kelly wouldn't blink at playing Malik. The talent difference between Golson and Malik may be far less than any of the players you mentioned. There is just a mental aspect of QB that is different than DE, WR or TE. Zaire also isn't a true freshman like all of the situations you mentioned.

I don't deny that Golson starting is highly likely. But if Zaire is better, he will play. If there is one thing I have learned about college football, its that QB is by far the most difficult position to predict. Especially at Notre Dame.

Fair enough. Though everyone I mentioned is in the same class, so none will be true freshmen next year. And Rochell already has lots of game experience.
I've heard all the same stuff about Zaire being great. And as Aubey said if Zaire beats out Golson then that's a very First World problem to have.
But there's lots of data out there to suggest that the single biggest indicator of success in college football is having a QB who's not a first-year starter (yes, I'm familiar with FSU and Jameis Winston, but on the flip side look at, say, Braxton Miller's development). Experience matters. Anecdotally this seems especially true at Notre Dame - can't remember the last QB we've had who's walked into the starting job without significant growing pains - and even moreseo under Kelly, who for some reason runs painfully complex systems that seem to take at least half a season to master.
Given the frustrations at QB the last few years I just don't see Kelly sitting an experienced QB for another rookie. Unless either the experienced guy screws up big or the rookie is transcendent. Either of those is possible, I suppose. I just wouldn't bet on it.

 

[woolybug25]

Fair enough. Though everyone I mentioned is in the same class, so none will be true freshmen next year. And Rochell already has lots of game experience.
I've heard all the same stuff about Zaire being great. And as Aubey said if Zaire beats out Golson then that's a very First World problem to have.
But there's lots of data out there to suggest that the single biggest indicator of success in college football is having a QB who's not a first-year starter (yes, I'm familiar with FSU and Jameis Winston, but on the flip side look at, say, Braxton Miller's development). Experience matters. Anecdotally this seems especially true at Notre Dame - can't remember the last QB we've had who's walked into the starting job without significant growing pains - and even moreseo under Kelly, who for some reason runs painfully complex systems that seem to take at least half a season to master.
Given the frustrations at QB the last few years I just don't see Kelly sitting an experienced QB for another rookie. Unless either the experienced guy screws up big or the rookie is transcendent. Either of those is possible, I suppose. I just wouldn't bet on it.

I hear ya, and in principle we agree. Just want to point out the thought bolded above.


It's not just Winston, it's Andrew Luck, Kellen Moore, Taylor Martinez, Aaron Murray, Johnny Manziel, Brett Hundley and Marcus Mariota. There have been a huge trend of successful 1st year starters at QB recently.

I'm not saying that we will or should go with Malik. I'm just saying that there have been a lot of really good (heisman winning) 1st year starters in the recent history. Those dudes all beat out guys with more experience on their team. Coaches know what type of QB is perfect for their offense, so when they see it, they rarely pass it up (at least recently).

 

[irishog77]

I hear ya, and in principle we agree. Just want to point out the thought bolded above.


It's not just Winston, it's Andrew Luck, Kellen Moore, Taylor Martinez, Aaron Murray, Johnny Manziel, Brett Hundley and Marcus Mariota. There have been a huge trend of successful 1st year starters at QB recently.

I'm not saying that we will or should go with Malik. I'm just saying that there have been a lot of really good (heisman winning) 1st year starters in the recent history. Those dudes all beat out guys with more experience on their team. Coaches know what type of QB is perfect for their offense, so when they see it, they rarely pass it up (at least recently).

The difference is, those guys you listed, by and large, beat out guys with perhaps more experience in the system...but not more experience as starting QB's, like EG is. Quality starts playing well, to boot.

 

[woolybug25]

The difference is, those guys you listed, by and large, beat out guys with perhaps more experience in the system...but not more experience as starting QB's, like EG is. Quality starts playing well, to boot.

Opportunity is opportunity. How many of all of the poor performing redshirt Frosh QB's had to deal with a QB that got kicked out and sat out a year? It's a unique situation we have, but the facts are what they are. There has been a crazy trend of redshirt freshman not only win on a big level, but win Heismans and compete for national titles.

 

[irishog77]

Opportunity is opportunity. How many of all of the poor performing redshirt Frosh QB's had to deal with a QB that got kicked out and sat out a year? It's a unique situation we have, but the facts are what they are. There has been a crazy trend of redshirt freshman not only win on a big level, but win Heismans and compete for national titles.

True. But those guys didn't beat out a starter that was as good or as experienced as EG is.

If it were Malik versus Rees (much like Golson versus Rees) or Hendrix, then yeah, I could see it happening. But EG ain't Rees or Hendrix.

I'll eat 3-5 of your shoes if MZ (barring injury or some crazy shit with Golson) is the starter to open the season.

 

[woolybug25]

True. But those guys didn't beat out a starter that was as good or as experienced as EG is.

If it were Malik versus Rees (much like Golson versus Rees) or Hendrix, then yeah, I could see it happening. But EG ain't Rees or Hendrix.

I'll eat 3-5 of your shoes if MZ (barring injury or some crazy shit with Golson) is the starter to open the season.

I would eat my shoes too. I agree with you on Golson being the likely starter. I think Golson will be better than Malik.

But if Golson comes to camp and is playing like the last Golson we saw (which was quite talented, btw) and Malik comes in playing like Luck, Manziel or Winston…. Then I trust BK will put the dude in that will take it home.

Know what I mean?

 

[IrishYYC]

What's the benefit for Kelly to say Golson is the starter right now? Nothing. Competition breeds success and even though Golson will most likely start game 1 of the season next year, it doesn't mean he won't have to work for it.

I feel that Malik will push him but barring injury or an amazing camp from Zaire, I'd be shocked if EG isn't the starter heading into the opener next year.

Regardless of which QB gets the nod heading into the opener, I trust Kelly and the coaching staff to make the right decision.

 

[rocket66]

Next year will be the perfect season for Malik to watch how the offense is supposed to look from the sidelines, while hopefully getting some game action late in games to prepare for his own future. I truly can't wait to see the potential explosiveness this O will bring next season. It should be a fun ride for the next several years.

 

[IrishBlood81]

Whats really cool is that both of this guys have something to prove. Golson comes back with out an ounce of entitlement because of what he did and man, do I give him big creds for coming back after quite a humiliating ordeal.
And Zaire I think has a lot of swag and wants to be 'the guy' as soon as possible. I believe he has a bit more personality and leadership abilities compared to Golson, from just what I have seen on video.
So this will definitely be an interesting offseason. And I would not be in the least bit disappointed for Zaire to get the go, in fact I may even be more excited.

 

[NCDomer]

Gunner seems like Golson's biggest competition.

 

[Irish#1]

No way, no how. Kelly is a hardcore system coach. Golson already has both a redshirt season and a full season of playing under his belt, not to mention National Championship game experience. On top of all this he worked with a QB guru in George Whitfield for the entire fall and is coming back stronger physically at 205lbs vs 185 or so, and with better mechanics. Now he gets the off season to polish up for fall of 14'. So no. Golson will start game 1 next season.

+1