Politics

[Buster Bluth]

In this scenario you'd turn 1M uneducated (with little buying power) into 100K uneducated and 200K educated (with substantial buying power). There would be an influx of money poured back into the economy. This would trickle into retail and other industries that can increase hiring for the uneducated. So really the net effect of jobs lost would not end up that great (but still negative).

I think these effects are a bit of a stretch.

One thing to note, US manufacturing is slowly on the rise because of an increased focus on technology advances like that Amazon delivery robot. If we don't continue that focus, we will just lose ALL of those jobs to companies overseas.

Last I checked manufacturing output it booming but the jobs aren't coming with it to such a degree.

 

[tussin]

I think these effects are a bit of a stretch.

Agree to disagree.

Last I checked manufacturing output it booming but the jobs aren't coming with it to such a degree.

Sure, but I think we'd all rather have domestic manufacturing output booming than nothing at all. The only reason it is booming is because of technological innovations (which in turn add some uneducated jobs and create entirely new industries and companies).

These jobs would be lost overseas if American companies didn't improve operations. Unfortunately, the uneducated is getting squeezed out in both scenarios.

 

[phgreek]

Get one of these, and you're all set:

Self-Driving Nissan Electric Car Takes to Highway

Nissan Motor Co. said a self-driving version of its electric Leaf car made its first foray onto public roads. Its guidance system, called Autonomous Drive, senses road conditions and operates the car’s steering, acceleration and braking as it merges into traffic, changes lanes and makes adjustments to keep a safe distance from other vehicles.

The Leaf drove on Japan’s Sagami Expressway in Kanagawa prefecture, southwest of Tokyo. Nissan vice chairman Toshiyuki Shiga and the prefecture’s Governor, Yuji Kuroiwa, rode in the car during the test, which marked a major step toward Nissan’s goal of selling self-driving cars to consumers by 2020.

A bigger step might be getting today’s drivers to accept them. Indeed, the technology allowing cars to drive themselves has essentially been in place for years, waiting for motorist culture to catch up.

Many car makers have experimented with autonomous passenger vehicles in part as a way to increase safety and efficiency. Technology company Google has a fleet of self-driving cars that have been on the road for years. Some safety experts have long said our highways would be much safer if cars drove themselves, cutting the chance of human error.

Self-Driving Nissan Electric Car Takes to Highway - Speakeasy - WSJ

These are sweet...and the technology is so cool. I am leery of it when the offering is "electric"...then the range/uptime issue concerns me...think of someone commuting from Connecticut to Manhattan...sweet my car drove itself to this spot on the roadside where I am now stranded.

Anyway...I think there is a culture issue, but also a liability issue when something ultimately does go wrong...somewhere between the road maintainer, the various vehicle manufacturers and their subs, and the operator...all that ground reflected in precedent based on today's paradigm goes up in smoke...takes time to at least agree in spirit on how that all works...

 

[Buster Bluth]

No. I mean, like, construction, sales, retail, banking, transportation, education, miscellaneous services like food preparation, etc.

Construction: I've always though this was one of the safest industries. My family owns a road construction company and it'd be pretty hard for a robot to do what I do during the summers.

But that doesn't mean breakthrough technology isn't changing the game. In the 1990s prefab homes blew up and costs dropped and yadda yadda yadda...it's getting to the point where you can 3D print a house. I used to think they were safe, but not anymore.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/EfbhdZKPHro" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/_YiPLjozLdU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I do think, however, that as construction costs fall, workforce reductions would likely be offset by higher demand. But, the skill needed to snap together prefabbed pieces is a low-skill job, so the wage falls. Just as bad of a problem.

Sales: online shopping is growing every year. It's a fact that it's destroyed "brick and mortar" stores.

Retail: wait what's the difference between sales and retail? haha But let's take a Walmart employee (most of whom are on government aid because they are paid so low). When you buy a good (let's say an xbox), the cashier swipes it and the computerized register shoots out the correct change--she doesn't even need to count it. The register simultaneously tells the warehouse twenty miles away that there are 132/250 xboxes in the store and to ship 150 when inventory gets to 100. Then, in the warehouse, this takes place:

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/kRg_1j-iWFU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

..and then a human (for now), loads it into a truck and they ship it there. No skill needed, thus low pay deserved. An economy can't be built on that.

Banking: ATM. Enough said.

Transportation: Google _____. Truck, bus, car. Only a matter of time.

Education: Online schooling is getting better in better. Granted, elementary schools are safe I don't ever seeing technology being more than a complimentary use...at least for now. But for mature people, a host of YouTube videos is as impactful as an algebra teacher. Creating online lectures and interactive video is breaking through right now, things like Rosetta Stone are only getting fine tuned. It will only get better and better. You won't see nearly as many Subject 101 or 201 professors in fifteen years as a result.

Manufacturing: I know you didn't mention it, but this is only the beginning:

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/e0rYO5YI7kA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

What happens when you need to buy a new muffler and you can simply roll over to the NAPA store and they 3D print you one in ten minutes??

 

[Buster Bluth]

Sure, but I think we'd all rather have domestic manufacturing output booming than nothing at all.

Totally agree.

The only reason it is booming is because of technological innovations (which in turn add some uneducated jobs and create entirely new industries and companies).

These jobs would be lost overseas if American companies didn't improve operations. Unfortunately, the uneducated is getting squeezed out in both scenarios.

Agreed. But the jobs are only coming back because it's cheaper for a robot to do work than to pay a Chinese worked the ~$3.75/day. It's 2013 and we've already displaced Chinese workers...where will we be in twenty years?

(They talk about this specifically in here: Are robots hurting job growth? - 60 Minutes Videos - CBS News)

 

[phgreek]

Just checking out my new avatar and Sig.

Oh yeah and the ACA site is working

Very Spiffy...kinda throwback...I like it

...the other I'd just like to throw back...Mostly working at what Cost? Which company was made to fix it, and at what cost to them?

 

[Bluto]

No. I mean, like, construction, sales, retail, banking, transportation, education, miscellaneous services like food preparation, etc.

These educated people have to live somewhere, right? Someone has to build these dwellings. A real estate agent, for a price, helps them find a place to live. They probably can't pay cash for their home so they may ask a bank and/or a banker for a little help. Probably need a ride to work too. Maybe a car salesman makes a commission from a car they purchase. Hell, maybe they'll take public transportation and catch a ride from a bus driver who used to work for the same company but lost his job as a result of the technology they helped create. And maybe you're right, on the way home, they may pick up a burger from McDonald's prepared by the driver's teenage son who is learning a skill and earning a buck.

I think you completely missed the point in all this automation business.

 

[phgreek]

I take that back about mostly working...

tried to log in, and my previous credentials don't work. Then I set up new credentials, and get to where I can shop...I got what looked like a timeout after maybe 1 minute, and got kicked out...I tried to log back in and my credentials don't work again...WTF?

I'll try again tomorrow...but this just lets me get further into the process before fvcking me over...

 

[connor_in]

PIERS MORGAN, HOST: Chris Christie, is his weight a genuine issue for the American people after a fit athletic president who turned out to be not quite what people thought? Does it matter that Chris Christie is a big guy?

JUDY SMITH, CRISIS MANAGEMENT EXPERT: You know what? I think that, I would hope that the public would focus on selecting a president based on where they think the country should go, what the policies and practices of the president, and not really based on weight.

MORGAN: But if you were advising him, would you say, right, he’s obviously lost a lot of weight in the last few months. Would you say to him, “Right, you’ve got to have a proper game plan by the time you launch a run, or don’t launch a run, in the next couple of years, you’ve got to be down to this kind of weight, otherwise forget it?”

SMITH: No, I wouldn't say that.

MORGAN: You wouldn’t have that conversation?

SMITH: No, I wouldn’t say that.

MORGAN: Olivia Pope would, wouldn’t she? She’d say, “Cut it.”

SMITH: I think what you want to say is that you want to be as anybody would be, that you want to be healthy. And each person decides that for himself.

MORGAN: But you have to be presentable?

SMITH: Absolutely, you have to be presentable. Of course you have to.

MORGAN: But does it [unintelligible], after the perfect Barack Obama - who’s a perfect physical specimen to many people's eyes - does it matter? Or is it actually somebody very different, somebody who’s much more of a regular kind of guy who likes cheeseburgers and beer and, but appears to be a straight talker? Somebody who is perhaps more of a straight talker than it appears Barack Obama turned out to be?

SMDH

 

[connor_in]

Just checking out my new avatar and Sig.

Oh yeah and the ACA site is working

Yeah...it's wonderful...

No security ever built into Obamacare site: Hacker

 

[tussin]

SMDH

The constant media turf war has ruined any semblance of bipartisan politics in this country. It's depressing.

 

[BobD]

The most bizzare campaign ad ever. Although this was from LBJ who was a democrat, it reminds me of the Tea Party Republicans propaganda since the inception of the ACA.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/9Id_r6pNsus?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[connor_in]

The most bizzare campaign ad ever. Although this was from LBJ who was a democrat, it reminds me of the Tea Party Republicans propaganda since the inception of the ACA.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/9Id_r6pNsus?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

once again...SMDH

 

[phgreek]

...and now for something completely different...

ok, so I think this concept of how inflation is reported has been covered on this site...maybe even this thread. So I'll Summarize. Prior to 1980, it considered factors like the cost of food, energy, rents, etc. Thereafter it is largely based on rising wages...

So...as you can see inflation is not near zero...it is and has been closer to 6. Uncle dumbass and his buddy the fed. are simply reporting things in an official capacity because "YOU CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH"...its more than that but doing this allows them to screw around with things w/o you seeing the true impacts...ah the world of power w/o accountability.

 

[ACamp1900]

Just like the unemployment numbers... because it's a good thing when people have been unemployed for so long that they no longer count...

 

[phgreek]

Just like the unemployment numbers... because it's a good thing when people have been unemployed for so long that they no longer count...

ya mean this...

"...the “official” unemployment rate doesn’t count ... workers who have settled for part-time jobs or have given up looking altogether. Tracking those individuals, under what’s called the “U-6″ rate, gives a very different measure of the nation’s unemployment rate: 14.3%."

So neither of these "cheats" (unemployment and inflation) are partisan creations...but they are political...

People need to stop listening to DC completely...if you want to live life in bullet points, at least base them upon your own life's experience. When things cost more and you make less, and its been that way for quite a long time...that would be bad...time to fire everyone and try again.

 

[phgreek]

The most bizzare campaign ad ever. Although this was from LBJ who was a democrat, it reminds me of the Tea Party Republicans propaganda since the inception of the ACA.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/9Id_r6pNsus?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

you can call it propaganda when ACA doesn't live up to their doomsday rhetoric...you aren't there yet...not by a longshot.

 

[ACamp1900]

People need to stop listening to DC completely...if you want to live life in bullet points, at least base them upon your own life's experience.

See, you must have forgot, we discussed this a couple months back... the conclusion was that paying attention to the world around you is for morons... what counts is biased, politically driven charts from government sources... independent studies or anything that refutes rock solid ideology or long held politics is obviously bullshit. If you expect the lightened ones to pay attention to anything else, than you are a meat head moron whose opinion is so laughable it’s not worth taking seriously, or paying attention to…

Remember?

Yeah, you ‘member.

 

[phgreek]

See, you must have forgot, we discussed this a couple months back... the conclusion was that paying attention to the world around you is for morons... what counts is biased, politically driven charts from government sources... independent studies or anything that refutes rock solid ideology or long held politics is obviously bullshit. If you expect the lightened ones to pay attention to anything else, than you are a meat head moron whose opinion is so laughable it’s not worth taking seriously, or paying attention to…

Remember?

Yeah, you ‘member.

Yea...I 'member... But I never "learn".

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

ACA is such a blessing for "the people" the president still needs people to spread the word. Amazing.

Obama: "I Need You To Spread The Word" About The "Benefits" Of Obamacare | Video | RealClearPolitics

 

[zbikowski88]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Notre Dame Sues Obama: We Won't Obey the HHS Mandate <a href="http://t.co/seK07dL8WF">http://t.co/seK07dL8WF</a></p>— Steven Ertelt (@StevenErtelt) <a href="https://twitter.com/StevenErtelt/statuses/408041796661702656">December 4, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Notre Dame Sues Obama: We Won't Obey the HHS Mandate <a href="http://t.co/seK07dL8WF">http://t.co/seK07dL8WF</a></p>— Steven Ertelt (@StevenErtelt) <a href="https://twitter.com/StevenErtelt/statuses/408041796661702656">December 4, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Love it.

 

[GATTACA!]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Notre Dame Sues Obama: We Won't Obey the HHS Mandate <a href="http://t.co/seK07dL8WF">http://t.co/seK07dL8WF</a></p>— Steven Ertelt (@StevenErtelt) <a href="https://twitter.com/StevenErtelt/statuses/408041796661702656">December 4, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[phgreek]

so its coming out that while the website is indeed functioning such that more people can enroll...there remains that pesky issue of payment...so, any of you Obamacare proponents care to explain how the payments are going to work? I would, but folks would think I'm making it up...

no? Ok, well...if I buy insurance through the exchange, and I "qualify" for a subsidy, I go ahead and pay my part. But as we know it doesn't magically cost the insurance company less when I need help...so uncle Sam accrues a bill. Well neither the insurance companies nor uncle sam are set up to deal with the subsidies...so the solution is, Uncle sam says they'll go on the honor system with the insurance companies to tell what is owed...

OK so, to recap...we were in the position to require the ACA largely because the insurance industry are thieving assholes ... we shit the bed so badly on the marketplace the only people willing to make it work are those going to Medicaid, thus the lack of risk balance will drive the rates up...the actuarial and rate adjustments are determined by insurance companies..., whom we've given a blank check to the national treasury (more like a credit card, since we have no money)...and its up to them to make it work. How do you all suppose this goes????

The one thing we've done is "Insure" collusion and inflation in the marketplace because we don't have any oversight, and the insurance companies' incentive for efficiency is gone because this is all on "House" money...so as we've done with unemployment rates and inflation rates, lets quick redefine "Affordable".

 

[Buster Bluth]

Hot off the presses, one more for you...

And maybe you're right, on the way home, they may pick up a burger from McDonald's prepared by the driver's teenage son who is learning a skill and earning a buck.

Think again:

The Presto [E La Carte’s tablet] aspires to be the food-services version of the airline check-in kiosk or the ATM or the self-checkout at your local pharmacy. It makes a person's job a computer's job, and that cuts costs. Each console goes for $100 per month. If a restaurant serves meals eight hours a day, seven days a week, it works out to 42 cents per hour per table—making the Presto cheaper than even the very cheapest waiter. Moreover, no manager needs to train it, replace it if it quits, or offer it sick days. And it doesn't forget to take off the cheese, walk off for 20 minutes, or accidentally offend with small talk, either.

Tablets at restaurants: Applebee's, Chili's race to eliminate human interaction.

All I can think of is the great opening scene is Reservoir Dogs when they talk about how being a waitress is the one job any woman can get to make a decent living. Times are changing.

 

[BobD]

Hot off the presses, one more for you...



Think again:



Tablets at restaurants: Applebee's, Chili's race to eliminate human interaction.

All I can think of is the great opening scene is Reservoir Dogs when they talk about how being a waitress is the one job any woman can get to make a decent living. Times are changing.

I remember when gas stations were full service, ever since I've always felt bad seeing a woman have to pump her own gas, so over the years I've helped quite a few. I guess this will be time for the ladies to pay it back. The thought of guys having to get their own sandwiches is terrible.

 

[connor_in]

Low-Information Leadership - Peggy Noonan's Blog - WSJ

Not always a fan of Noonan, but thought this was interesting.

 

[Black Irish]

Automation may have negative side effects, but it may not be as bad as it seems. I remember working as a demonstrator for the new "smart" ATMS about 12-13 years ago. Those ATMs were supposed to eliminate the need for human tellers. Theoretically, a bank customer could do all of his normal transactions at the ATM: deposit cash, cash checks to the penny, etc. Some banks even started instituting penalties for having too many teller transactions in a month in order to force people to use the new ATMs. What happened? People didn't like being pressured to use the new technology. People didn't like being penalized for giving the bank their money. So the banks let their techno-boners ease down and now the smart ATMs coexist with the human tellers. You can see the same thing with automated check-out stations at grocery stores. There are still human cashiers working along with the self-checkouts.

I won't say that there won't be job losses due to automation. However, I think that the smarter businesses would, rather than lay off a bunch of people, would get them into a different line. If you automate the cashier's job, you don't fire the cashier, you now have another employee that can stock shelves, or answer phones, or help customers.

 

[wizards8507]

All I can think of is the great opening scene is Reservoir Dogs when they talk about how being a waitress is the one job any woman can get to make a decent living. Times are changing.

I remember when gas stations were full service, ever since I've always felt bad seeing a woman have to pump her own gas, so over the years I've helped quite a few. I guess this will be time for the ladies to pay it back. The thought of guys having to get their own sandwiches is terrible.

My guess is the marketplace won't allow this to happen the way it has with gasoline. Gas is a commodity without much differentiation. It's a transaction that the consumer hopes to complete as quickly and as cheaply as possible. (S)he doesn't choose to buy gas for its own sake, it's just a necessary task to get us on our way.

Restaurants are different. They're not just a product, but an experience. Fast food is transactional, hence the drive-thru, but "real" restaurants have another compenent. High-end restaurants will always have a service component because that's part of what you're paying for. You're not just there to ingest calories and get on with your day. What will be interesting is where the "line" is drawn. High end restaurants will always focus on the experience, while automation will help the fast-food consumer drive speed and efficiency. Where the spectrum of casual dining options anywhere from Applebees to Ruth's Chris fall out is what I'm interested to see.

 

[connor_in]

My guess is the marketplace won't allow this to happen the way it has with gasoline. Gas is a commodity without much differentiation. It's a transaction that the consumer hopes to complete as quickly and as cheaply as possible. (S)he doesn't choose to buy gas for its own sake, it's just a necessary task to get us on our way.

Restaurants are different. They're not just a product, but an experience. Fast food is transactional, hence the drive-thru, but "real" restaurants have another compenent. High-end restaurants will always have a service component because that's part of what you're paying for. You're not just there to ingest calories and get on with your day. What will be interesting is where the "line" is drawn. High end restaurants will always focus on the experience, while automation will help the fast-food consumer drive speed and efficiency. Where the spectrum of casual dining options anywhere from Applebees to Ruth's Chris fall out is what I'm interested to see.

only thing popped into my mind reading this was the Coneheads "Consume Mass Quantities!"