Politics

[irishpat183]

Different angle: So, everyone is ok with auto insurance being mandatory in most places, but not health insurance?

Jesus....can you stop with this?

A. car insurance is state mandated. So it's not federal.
B. you need a license to operate a car, and YOU"RE ok with that...but demand ID to vote? racist.

And are you saying you have the "right to drive"?

 

[Irish Houstonian]

It is a social contract. Sorry brother. Albeit a simple one.
The Social Contract and Constitutional Republics

Well...the Constitution is based on a form of "Social Contract" philosophy (Natural Law), which they derived from John Locke. But that doesn't mean the piece of paper itself is a social contract.

I mean, we know what it is -- is a agreement ratified among the states setting forth the powers of their collective governmental body. So calling the document itself an "X contract" or a "Y contract" at best causes confusion.

Social contract - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Cackalacky]

And that is a fantastic opinion. I'm just using the words of the actual documents themselves. I'm not trying to change it up to meet my needs.

You cannot, have a right to anyone else's labor. That equals slavery.

Unless youre ok with slavery.

Niether am I. Do you even civics bro?

And please, with the slavery shits, that is no where close to what any of us are saying.

 

[Cackalacky]

Well...the Constitution is based on a form of "Social Contract" philosophy (Natural Law), which they derived from John Locke. But that doesn't mean the piece of paper itself is a social contract.

I mean, we know what it is -- is a agreement ratified among the states setting forth the powers of their collective governmental body. So calling the document itself an "X contract" or a "Y contract" at best causes confusion.

Social contract - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That is what I am saying. Pat says it is not a social contract. There are several implications that are being missed here.... on both sides.

 

[irishpat183]

Niether am I. Do you even civics bro?

And please, with the slavery shits, that is no where close to what any of us are saying.

Dude, I almost spit up my drink. Well played. I love you.


And if what you are saying, people are entitled/owed to YOUR labor for the good of the group, then is that not a form of slavery to the person performing the labor??

How would you react if Doctors, getting screwed on medicare/cade patients, decided to stop taking those clients (some already are, but work with me here) and refused them at the door??

 

[irishpat183]

That is what I am saying. Pat says it is not a social contract. There are several implications that are being missed here.... on both sides.

But the big issue is....Do I have to agree to a "social" contract?

 

[ACamp1900]

And if what you are saying, people are entitled/owed to YOUR labor for the good of the group, then is that not a form of slavery to the person performing the labor??

It sure as heck ain't 'Merica!!! I no dat much rite der. Dat's sum ole Cominist Russia shiz rite der.

 

[ickythump1225]

Different angle: So, everyone is ok with auto insurance being mandatory in most places, but not health insurance?

Apples and oranges really. I don't have to own a car and thus I don't have to own car insurance. There is no law stating I must own a car. Also I can own a car and not purchase insurance, I just can't drive it without threat of a ticket.

However by my very existence in this nation I'm mandated to buy insurance? Bullcrap. This is just another example of a government program squeezing those in the middle. Those at the top don't need to worry about this law as they likely have insurance already and those at the very bottom already have medicaid or will now be eligible for it. But those in the middle who aren't "poor enough" to qualify for government help but not rich enough to really live with any shred of financial security get screwed. They'll likely find out that their cheap catastrophe plans they purchased because they couldn't afford more expensive insurance is getting cancelled and they'll now be mandated to buy more expensive healthcare.

Government is already overwrought in the healthcare industry as it and the major flaws and problems with the healthcare system in the country won't be fixed by the government going balls deep into it.

 

[phgreek]

In the image of the IRS...It would appear the freaking census bureau, another of the "MUST BE APOLITICAL" offices in DC...has failed to be that.

Census ‘faked’ 2012 election jobs report | New York Post

To be fair the Washington post asks some reasonable questions about the NY post's assertions here:

Five questions about the New York Post’s unemployment story

The thing I think the Washington post seems to put first is the integrity of the 2012 election...as if the critical issue is Mr. Obama's legitimacy. I'll be the first to say I don't think you could manipulate it enough to matter...The bigger issue is the culture of politics, and political operatives in branches of government we damn well depend on to run this nation APART FROM POLITICS. It is my contention you cannot fix this by firing some people...the culture in these places has gone bad...they must be ended and their function re-staffed with a commitment to foster an apolitical culture...including telling the regime in power "NO" some times when they ask for things we know are in their interest...and not the country's. Civilian personnel work for US.

 

[connor_in]

Apples and oranges really. I don't have to own a car and thus I don't have to own car insurance. There is no law stating I must own a car. Also I can own a car and not purchase insurance, I just can't drive it without threat of a ticket.

However by my very existence in this nation I'm mandated to buy insurance? Bullcrap. This is just another example of a government program squeezing those in the middle. Those at the top don't need to worry about this law as they likely have insurance already and those at the very bottom already have medicaid or will now be eligible for it. But those in the middle who aren't "poor enough" to qualify for government help but not rich enough to really live with any shred of financial security get screwed. They'll likely find out that their cheap catastrophe plans they purchased because they couldn't afford more expensive insurance is getting cancelled and they'll now be mandated to buy more expensive healthcare.

Government is already overwrought in the healthcare industry as it and the major flaws and problems with the healthcare system in the country won't be fixed by the government going balls deep into it.

One other point to add here to the fine post above...the requirement for insurance for cars allows different levels, the lowest acceptable by the States tends to be pretty low (remember coverage-wise not necessarily price-wise). State minimum limits keep you legal but most choose better limits than required to better protect their assets.

 

[GowerND11]

You are also required to have car insurance for the protection of others. It's to prevent you from harming them or damaging their vehicle without repercussions and payment.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

You are also required to have car insurance for the protection of others. It's to prevent you from harming them or damaging their vehicle without repercussions and payment.

+1. And, the IRS doesn't come looking for you to make sure you've purchased it.

 

[connor_in]

+1. And, the IRS doesn't come looking for you to make sure you've purchased it.

Correct. The only times you may need to prove auto insurance is at the time of a ticket or accident, or some states require proof at time of license plate renewal. However, many states just ask for your insurance carrier and policy number which many people make up on the spot or purchase insurance before they renew their plate and then don't pay the premium when due the next month.

 

[Black Irish]

The car insurance analogy helps illuminate this whole healthcare debate. Conservatives (generally) favor a health insurance marketplace that is similar to auto insurance. You can pick anything from basic (catastrophic) to full coverage (Cadillac plan). As with auto, you pay out of pocket for basic maintenance but are covered when the fecal matter hits the fan. With more people paying out of pocket for basic medical care (e.g. annual check-ups) costs will come down because the market will not be so distorted by insurance caps and reimbursement rates. Most people will pay more year-to-year, but that's not so bad because making a regular investment in our own health will, ideally, lead people to lead healthier lives. The poor can still be covered under Medicaid, so the system won't toss those who can't pay out in the cold. I'd like to see the elderly pay for more of their own healthcare, when possible, so that they don't just automatically go to Medicare for everything. And I would even be in favor of some type of government subsidy to help those with pre-existing conditions so that they aren't faced with the prospect of financial ruin because they can't get coverage.

So, in summation, make the health insurance market more like the car insurance market, and we can all get our health coverage from the Aflac Duck. He seems pretty legit.

 

[irishpat183]

The car insurance analogy helps illuminate this whole healthcare debate. Conservatives (generally) favor a health insurance marketplace that is similar to auto insurance. You can pick anything from basic (catastrophic) to full coverage (Cadillac plan). As with auto, you pay out of pocket for basic maintenance but are covered when the fecal matter hits the fan. With more people paying out of pocket for basic medical care (e.g. annual check-ups) costs will come down because the market will not be so distorted by insurance caps and reimbursement rates. Most people will pay more year-to-year, but that's not so bad because making a regular investment in our own health will, ideally, lead people to lead healthier lives. The poor can still be covered under Medicaid, so the system won't toss those who can't pay out in the cold. I'd like to see the elderly pay for more of their own healthcare, when possible, so that they don't just automatically go to Medicare for everything. And I would even be in favor of some type of government subsidy to help those with pre-existing conditions so that they aren't faced with the prospect of financial ruin because they can't get coverage.
So, in summation, make the health insurance market more like the car insurance market, and we can all get our health coverage from the Aflac Duck. He seems pretty legit.

Tell you what... I would totally reach across the table on that one as well.


But that would all make too much sense and god forbid I need to actually "invest" in myself.

But remember, liberals only like investing in themselves with other people's money.

 

[irishpat183]

Tell you what... I would totally reach across the table on that one as well.


But that would all make too much sense and god forbid I need to actually "invest" in myself.

But remember, liberals only like investing in themselves with other people's money.[/QUOTE]

That should be a goddamn bumpersticker.

 

[Black Irish]

Tell you what... I would totally reach across the table on that one as well.


But that would all make too much sense and god forbid I need to actually "invest" in myself.

But remember, liberals only like investing in themselves with other people's money.[/QUOTE]

That should be a goddamn bumpersticker.

It'll look great on your Prius. grin:

 

[GoIrish41]

The car insurance analogy helps illuminate this whole healthcare debate. Conservatives (generally) favor a health insurance marketplace that is similar to auto insurance. You can pick anything from basic (catastrophic) to full coverage (Cadillac plan). As with auto, you pay out of pocket for basic maintenance but are covered when the fecal matter hits the fan. With more people paying out of pocket for basic medical care (e.g. annual check-ups) costs will come down because the market will not be so distorted by insurance caps and reimbursement rates. Most people will pay more year-to-year, but that's not so bad because making a regular investment in our own health will, ideally, lead people to lead healthier lives. The poor can still be covered under Medicaid, so the system won't toss those who can't pay out in the cold. I'd like to see the elderly pay for more of their own healthcare, when possible, so that they don't just automatically go to Medicare for everything. And I would even be in favor of some type of government subsidy to help those with pre-existing conditions so that they aren't faced with the prospect of financial ruin because they can't get coverage.

So, in summation, make the health insurance market more like the car insurance market, and we can all get our health coverage from the Aflac Duck. He seems pretty legit.

A subsidy would not help those with pre-exiisting contitions because, in many cases, insurance companies simply refuse to cover them. The amount of money that you would have to pay to get them to change their minds would be enormous. The problem is with the insurance companies, health care providers, and pharm companies who charge outrageous rates for their services in the first place. A better solution would be to cut them (insurance companies) out of the equasion altogether. Then we can start looking at finding ways to control costs of drugs and doctors who have significantly contributed to astronomical health care costs in this country. This has been done all around the world, and we (the greatest nation in the history of the world) cannot figure it out. NOBODY should be profiting from sick people. To me, it is just that simple.

 

[irishpat183]

It'll look great on your Prius. grin:

LOL....My HYBRID Prius, with my "Coexist" sticker on the back

 

[irishpat183]

A subsidy would not help those with pre-exiisting contitions because, in many cases, insurance companies simply refuse to cover them. The amount of money that you would have to pay to get them to change their minds would be enormous. The problem is with the insurance companies, health care providers, and pharm companies who charge outrageous rates for their services in the first place. A better solution would be to cut them (insurance companies) out of the equasion altogether. Then we can start looking at finding ways to control costs of drugs and doctors who have significantly contributed to astronomical health care costs in this country. This has been done all around the world, and we (the greatest nation in the history of the world) cannot figure it out. NOBODY should be profiting from sick people. To me, it is just that simple.

What he means is: Cut out the private sector and all competition. Then allow government to determine price and how much a doctor should be able to charge for HIS LABOR (slavery)


And there is a reason people come here for our care. We have the BEST DOCTORS in the world.


Nobody should be profiting from transportation. Or food. Or whatever it is you do for a living.

Just insanity.

 

[irishpat183]

I would love for Doctors to just drop everything and go on strike.

Let people squirm. Watch them bitch and moan about how THEY won't treat someone as if you're entitled to it.


Nobody should profit. LOL...does this include government? Because that is who is going to profit with a single payer system

 

[ACamp1900]

Profit is one hell of a motivator in terms of innovation…

 

[irishpat183]

Awesome. We're sending up Rick Perry now. First thing this moron does in office is **** of Boeing? LOL.

All fun and games until Starbucks moves out!



Seattle City Councilmember-elect shares radical idea with... | www.kirotv.com

 

[irishpat183]

Profit is one hell of a motivator in terms of innovation…

You're wrong. Everyone just does things because they "like too".


LOL

 

[NDFan4Life]

Last year, we brought my Mom out here from Illinois after her stroke. My wife called about 15 doctors to see if they'd take new patients. All of them asked if she was on Medicare (which she is), and when told that she was, promptly declined. They all said that the government was about 3 years behind in paying them, and didn't want to deal with any more Medicare patients. Of the 15 that were called, 8 of them have quit their practice and have gone back to working in the hospital full time, 4 have retired and the rest moved away from the area. Luckily, we found one that's about 45 minutes away.

Anyone who says that the government can do a better job in running the health-care system is a fool. All they have to do is open their eyes and see how great the government is with Medicare/Medicaid.

 

[irishpat183]

Last year, we brought my Mom out here from Illinois after her stroke. My wife called about 15 doctors to see if they'd take new patients. All of them asked if she was on Medicare (which she is), and when told that she was, promptly declined. They all said that the government was about 3 years behind in paying them, and didn't want to deal with any more Medicare patients. Of the 15 that were called, 8 of them have quit their practice and have gone back to working in the hospital full time, 4 have retired and the rest moved away from the area. Luckily, we found one that's about 45 minutes away.

Anyone who says that the government can do a better job in running the health-care system is a fool. All they have to do is open their eyes and see how great the government is with Medicare/Medicaid.

but those doctors are greedy

Exactly. This is running rampant. There are docs already saying they're outta the biz, retiring, or will just flat out decline people.

And I hope your mom is ok.

 

[NDFan4Life]

but those doctors are greedy

Exactly. This is running rampant. There are docs already saying they're outta the biz, retiring, or will just flat out decline people.

And I hope your mom is ok.

Nobody even bothers to take into account the malpractice insurance doctors are required to have. I've gone through 5 doctors in the past 4 years. All of the previous ones quit their private practice. They saw the handwriting on the wall and decided to cut their losses.

My Mom's doing great! On the other hand though, I'm going completely bat-sh1t. Her and my wife are driving me to drink.

 

[irishpat183]

Nobody even bothers to take into account the malpractice insurance doctors are required to have. I've gone through 5 doctors in the past 4 years. All of the previous ones quit their private practice. They saw the handwriting on the wall and decided to cut their losses.

My Mom's doing great! On the other hand though, I'm going completely bat-sh1t. Her and my wife are driving me to drink.

Make sure and thank them!

 

[NDFan4Life]

Obama: Republicans Making It Difficult To Fix Obamacare Glitches

<script height="360px" width="640px" src="http://player.ooyala.com/iframe.js#pbid=b171980b65ae4996bffea4da902c7846&ec=84aDdoaDpSfkLE9zGVaJ7qfSYqXxpqG7"></script>

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Last year, we brought my Mom out here from Illinois after her stroke. My wife called about 15 doctors to see if they'd take new patients. All of them asked if she was on Medicare (which she is), and when told that she was, promptly declined. They all said that the government was about 3 years behind in paying them, and didn't want to deal with any more Medicare patients. Of the 15 that were called, 8 of them have quit their practice and have gone back to working in the hospital full time, 4 have retired and the rest moved away from the area. Luckily, we found one that's about 45 minutes away.

Anyone who says that the government can do a better job in running the health-care system is a fool. All they have to do is open their eyes and see how great the government is with Medicare/Medicaid.

It's not just reimbursement -- some practices are slow enough that they would take the patients if they got the paid rates. The problem is compliance. It's about 8x more compliance and coding costs to take a Medicare patient versus private insurance, and it's a felony if you're wrong.