I saw this on SI, thought it fit ND...

dre1919

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I was reading an article on coaches on the hot seat and they were discussing Bo Pelini at Nebraska. In this article, the following paragraphs were found:

"But should Pelini's status be in question? Mack Brown could get pushed out at Texas if he posts a third consecutive season similar to the ones Pelini has posted. But that's Texas. Brown can't swing a Franklin Barbecue brisket without hitting at least 10 blue-chip recruits. The degree of difficulty at Nebraska, as those of us who study the geography of recruiting have said for years, is far higher. Huskers fans may vividly remember winning three national titles in four years in the 1990s, but none of the prospects Nebraska is currently pursuing remembers them. Many of those players do know that Nebraska is far from home and a whole lot colder than the place they live now.

Back in the glory days, Tom Osborne could tell recruits from other parts of the country that, unlike at their nearby university, they could play on television regularly at Nebraska. Now, every power-conference team plays every game on television. Being college football royalty only goes so far. As Nebraska, Michigan and Tennessee have learned, the name means nothing without the talent.

That's a hard fact to swallow for fan bases accustomed to decades of winning, and it explains why nine and 10 wins a year aren't considered good enough in Lincoln. Pelini (record at Nebraska: 56-22) is fighting for his job when, in fact, he may be doing the best job anyone can do given the circumstances. That's the risk in making a change. Maybe someone else can do better, but that's exactly what the Nebraska administration reasoned before it fired Frank Solich (record at Nebraska: 58-19) in 2003 and hired Bill Callahan (record at Nebraska: 27-22)."

This totally made me think of Notre Dame's seemingly endless situation because as I've maintained for years location matters more than ever, TV really doesn't, and history is just that...history.
 

ACamp1900

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ND still consistently pulls in better talent than NU does... but I get the point.
 

eNDzone

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To me that is all the more reason ND needs to stay independent. Not only are they on national TV every week, they are actually in the areas the young recruits live. Being able to schedule teams across the country is a big plus.
 

IrishLax

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Location helps, obviously. But winning games (and recruiting) is as simple as having a good coach and an administration dedicated to winning/willing to open the checkbook.

How much of Alabama's roster is from Alabama? Very little. How much of Oregon's roster is from Oregon? Almost none. Oregon was able to build themselves into a power because they had full backing with $$$, institutional support, and the right coach.

The only thing stopping a Nebraska or anyone else from building a power program is $$$, a win-at-all-costs attitude, and the right coaches. Sure, it helps to be located in Florida or Texas or Southern California but that's just a bonus to the above.
 

ACamp1900

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Location helps, obviously. But winning games (and recruiting) is as simple as having a good coach and an administration dedicated to winning/willing to open the checkbook.

How much of Alabama's roster is from Alabama? Very little. How much of Oregon's roster is from Oregon? Almost none. Oregon was able to build themselves into a power because they had full backing with $$$, institutional support, and the right coach.

The only thing stopping a Nebraska or anyone else from building a power program is $$$, a win-at-all-costs attitude, and the right coaches. Sure, it helps to be located in Florida or Texas or Southern California but that's just a bonus to the above.

and getting Eastern Michigan, Idaho and Southern Alabama on line 1 for future schduling...
 
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Location helps, obviously. But winning games (and recruiting) is as simple as having a good coach and an administration dedicated to winning/willing to open the checkbook.

How much of Alabama's roster is from Alabama? Very little. How much of Oregon's roster is from Oregon? Almost none. Oregon was able to build themselves into a power because they had full backing with $$$, institutional support, and the right coach.

The only thing stopping a Nebraska or anyone else from building a power program is $$$, a win-at-all-costs attitude, and the right coaches. Sure, it helps to be located in Florida or Texas or Southern California but that's just a bonus to the above.
Historically, Alabama has always relied upon state high schools to fill their roster. With Saban's success at Alabama, they have been able to go nation wide, and cherry pick for recruits. Alabama stays close to home(Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Louisiana) for recruits.
 

Crazy Balki

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Location helps, obviously. But winning games (and recruiting) is as simple as having a good coach and an administration dedicated to winning/willing to open the checkbook.

How much of Alabama's roster is from Alabama? Very little. How much of Oregon's roster is from Oregon? Almost none. Oregon was able to build themselves into a power because they had full backing with $$$, institutional support, and the right coach.

The only thing stopping a Nebraska or anyone else from building a power program is $$$, a win-at-all-costs attitude, and the right coaches. Sure, it helps to be located in Florida or Texas or Southern California but that's just a bonus to the above.

Actually, Alabama has quite a few players from Alabama. Those not from Alabama, are close by like Florida, Georgia or Louisiana.
 

ulukinatme

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I think the article relates to us very well. It is hard to get big time recruits from recruiting hotbeds to come to South Bend. We're not the powerhouse we once were, and the television benefits we bring don't hold the same clout they once did with the advent of ESPN and a number of growing conference television channels. With restricted access to talent, and smaller scholarship limits, it's tough to become a powerhouse these days.
 

ACamp1900

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And yet ND goes to the title game and lands the second best class in the country last year...

IF ND goes on a ten win a year run for 3-4 years they'll be a top five class program every year, I have no doubt.

ND has to have a roadmap to that... imo the first step is lighten schedule (by a lot) for at least five years or so...

think of it in your best Al Pacino Scareface voice...

"First you git de wins, then you git de recruits, then you git de TITLES."
 

ulukinatme

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think of it in your best Al Pacino Scareface voice...

"First you git de wins, then you git de recruits, then you git de TITLES."

I read this as "TITTIES" the first time I saw this...wishful thinking I guess. Then again, titles could lead to titties.
 

IrishLax

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Actually, Alabama has quite a few players from Alabama. Those not from Alabama, are close by like Florida, Georgia or Louisiana.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "quite a few." In the last 4 classes, including this one, they only gave scholarships to 23 Alabama players out of the 102 that they've signed. That's less than 25% of their team.

Yeah, they recruit the nearby deep south for a lot of the remaining players. By that stretch, Tennessee is also in a very good location... but they got listed in the articles as being "bad."

The point is that location doesn't make your team unless your one of a rare few schools like Texas or Miami or Florida where you could literally fill a roster from homegrown players. Money, administration, coaching, and winning make your team. You can sign talented recruits and win games at any school with enough $$$/commitment/coaching. Alabama pulls studs from all over the country because they have that, not because of their location. Of the top 5 rated players they've had in each of the past 4 classes (so 20 total) 12 were from deep south states including Florida, and 8 were from states outside of the deep south. So 40% of their top talent they're having to reach for.
 

Emcee77

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Location helps, obviously. But winning games (and recruiting) is as simple as having a good coach and an administration dedicated to winning/willing to open the checkbook.

How much of Alabama's roster is from Alabama? Very little. How much of Oregon's roster is from Oregon? Almost none. Oregon was able to build themselves into a power because they had full backing with $$$, institutional support, and the right coach.

The only thing stopping a Nebraska or anyone else from building a power program is $$$, a win-at-all-costs attitude, and the right coaches. Sure, it helps to be located in Florida or Texas or Southern California but that's just a bonus to the above.

Oregon is a great example.
 

tussin

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I have a somewhat unrelated question on this topic....

Has the Deep South always been a hot bed for recruiting? If not, are we just in a talent cycle or is it a permanent change?

Was the talent more dispersed in the 70's and 80's when teams like ND, Penn State, and Nebraska had dominant programs? Personally, I have a hard time imagining JoePa spending months on the road to find kids in Texas or Cali. Maybe I'm wrong though.
 

ACamp1900

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Things change… Pennsylvania was a major recruiting state there up until the late 1980's/ early 1990s... now it's not even mentioned among the top states...
 

GowerND11

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Things change… Pennsylvania was a major recruiting state there up until the late 1980's/ early 1990s... now it's not even mentioned among the top states...

^This. Living in PA all my life I always heard and felt that PA was a great source of talent. As time has gone, PA still has some good talent, but the depth is no where near what it was. It's not in the top 5 anymore in regards to recruiting. It's a shame. PA has some very physical football, but with the move towards spread offenses it's been left behind a bit.
 

kmoose

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^This. Living in PA all my life I always heard and felt that PA was a great source of talent. As time has gone, PA still has some good talent, but the depth is no where near what it was. It's not in the top 5 anymore in regards to recruiting. It's a shame. PA has some very physical football, but with the move towards spread offenses it's been left behind a bit.

Ohio was one of the top states for recruiting, as well, in the 70s and 80s. It still puts out quite a few quality players every year, but the numbers aren't what they used to be.

I think that the proliferation of the internet also has something to do with it. It used to be that, if you came from a school like Cincinnati Moeller, Massillon Washington, or Cleveland St. Ignatius; colleges knew that you had a minimum amount of football acumen and talent. So a lot of schools concentrated on those areas. They could spend a few weeks at a major high school program, and maybe bring in 4 guys. Now that kids can basically produce their own highlight reels, and post them on youtube, a lot of coaches are going into areas that had never really been recruited before.
 

IrishLax

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But Oregon is a border state of California.

If Notre Dame was in a border state of California I have no doubt i n my mind the Arik Armstead would be Irish today.

OK but by that logic, ND is close to Michigan, Ohio, and Chicago and those places have an abundance of talent.

On top of that, it's a full 12.5 hours from Eugene to Southern California which is where the majority of the California talent is from (not Arik Armstead though). Using that radius, ND is within arms reach of everywhere from Massachusetts to Georgia to Kansas to North Dakota. Extending it just a tad further (Eugene to San Diego) would get ND comfortably into Texas and Florida and the like. So it's not like Oregon is proximate to most of the California talent.

Personally, I think location only helps you with prospects that are either:
1) Within a 4 hour drive.
2) You are significantly closer than other schools in their top group.

Location... like any other factor... definitely helps a lot with recruiting certain prospects, but only for a few schools is it an end-all, be-all. $$$ + commitment + coaching will compensate for any and all geographic shortcomings if at elite levels.
 
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