13 Shot In Chicago Park

[phgreek]

NO! NO! NO!

You want Blackhawk Down.

Military Rapid Response Teams with Attack Helicopters and no rules of engagement.

Automatic weapons. Grenade launchers. Precision Air Strikes for reinforced bunkers, er, crack houses.

Let's turn the South Side into Kabul West. Nope can't do that. There are Rules of Engagement in Afghanistan.


Actually you can't even send in Military Police. The Posse Comitatus Act forbids the federal military from acting as a police force to augment local law enforcement.

Read it at Wiki.

Also see Sampson, Alabama 2009. In a town of about 2,000 people a man murdered his mother and three dogs. Then he drove to his uncle's house and killed him and two cousins. Then he drove to grandma's house and killed her. Then he drove around killing passing motorists and shooting up stores. The sheriff got reports of multiple killings in different parts of town. He called nearby Ft. Rucker and requested assistant. The Army aware of Posse Comitatus sent over 2 dozen MPs solely to direct traffic and secure the crime scenes while the Sherrif and deputies went after the killer.

The Leo's got'em. Actually he committed suicide.

And the Army reprimanded the officer who authorized those MPs to assist the Sherrif in violation of Federal Law, Posse Comitatus.

The sheriff acted expediently but he should have called the Governor who could have used the National Guard. The governor could have also called POTUS requesting federal assistance. It would not have come.


Chicago has a crime problem as do most major cities. They have to deal with their problem without the U.S. Armed Forces.

This is a city, county,

I am aware of the limitations that exist...but as in all things, the limits are always "limited". If you need to demilitarize the response...reassign Green Berets to the FBI on a cross training urban combat mission in the south side. What Posse Comitatus?

 

[BGIF]

I am aware of the limitations that exist...but as in all things, the limits are always "limited". If you need to demilitarize the response...reassign Green Berets to the FBI on a cross training urban combat mission in the south side. What Posse Comitatus?

Operation Phoenix on domestic soil?

Gee, why not keep it local, ala Magnum Force?


You can't be that obtuse.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

I was too general. They're in the business but it's not nearly as profitable as opiates, and every time the US cracks down they take a bigger piece. Demand isn't changing so all they're doing is shuffling supply.

As U.S. Cracks Down on Meth Makers, Mexican Drug Cartels Fill Void | The Partnership at Drugfree.org

Which is why the drug war is a complete failure.

Every time they knock someone out of the game someone else steps up and takes their place. Or look at the cartels in Mexico.

People banded together to start killing cartel members and then guess what happened next... they became a drug dealing cartel.

Or the American trained military men who fought the cartels, then became the muscle for one and eventually broke off and became a cartel as well.

Or how some cartels get hit harder by the Gov't then others....

 

[phgreek]

Operation Phoenix on domestic soil?

Gee, why not keep it local, ala Magnum Force?


You can't be that obtuse.

I can be bullheaded fueled by a bit of a competitive streak...obtuse works for message boards...all comes off the same I suppose.

I get that you don't agree with a Military response...and I admitted previously I am leery of it too.

My last response was more like "you told me I couldn't do it". I told ya, in essence, how I, or someone motivated to do so might get around Posse Comitatus. This brings up the notion that there is implied an element of ..."if I were king for a day" in all of this, so its not like I have a red phone on my desk...or do I? Or do you?

I won't back away from the belief that it is time for some serious responses in Chicago. Without it...what is the outcome in Chicago or elsewhere... should we choose to continue as we are? What is happening in Chicago seems to me, to be more than a flare-up, or typical crime/drug problem. Tired of the lamentation...if we'd only taken it more seriously back when...We are living "back when" right now.

and in my best forest gump (he wasn't as obtuse as you might think)...That's all I have to say about that...

 

[GoIrish41]

Let's say for argument's sake that guns nationwide are illegal. Would those who want to commit murder just give up because there are no guns? Or would they use alternate weapons? Guys like Kaczinsky and McVeigh killed a lot of people without pulling a trigger. Everything they used can be bought at Lowe's or Home Depot.

Guys like Kaczinsky and McVeigh operated in the shadows because sending letter bombs and making fertilizer bombs is illegal. I don't recall a single person who I have ever talked with suggesting that they should have the right to openly carry bombs around with them or these weapons somehow don't meet the standard of their "right to bear arms." The issue with guns is that they are easy to carry, easy to conceal and allow people to do significant damage to human life from a distance. With guns though, no matter how many of these horrible shootings happen, a large number of people line up to defend the rights of people to have these guns. Many say that the real answer to gun violence is even more guns. Apparently the fact that there are as many guns in this country as their are people is somehow not enough. More and more powerful weapons are somehow needed to ensure that people stay safe. If their were not guns, do you honestly think that the trigger man who just killed those people in Chicago would have walked up to 13 people and stabbed them with a chef's knife, or do you suppose someone would have stopped him before he killed that baby? This country's fervor for guns is self-destructive and frightening.

 

[Circa]

I know my thoughts on these situations aren't always the best to relay.... but there is a saying among some.. "If the media were to be in full force back in the day, would this really look any different than just community happenings?" The crazy part of the story is the major news networks are feeding off of this and finally reporting what's the norm for a lot! Imo they are trying to make us think Guns Are BAD!! The 2nd amendment is at large!! Good Luck!!

 

[Circa]

The coward politicians and most citizens of this city refuse to hear arguments in support of stop and frisk. It is simply dismissed as racial profiling. That said, you think the feds will simply step in and "target" these "groups"?

This problem will be solved when the law abiding citizens of these neighborhoods take a stand. They are the real victims. The politicians elected in these jurisdictions can care less about their constituency. If they cared, they'd at least look for solutions, as opposed to dismissing ideas as "racist". What do I know, though. My approach is probably just an "upper middle-class, elitist white boy solution to a problem I know nothing about."

WoW ! I guess stop and frisk is what we really think we need!?? Why don't we just stop all the free ways of a civilized society and implement Marshal Law! Really! Let's go ahead and do it! Call your congressmen and voice your unadulterated opinion on the matter! BC even when we go to that extent you will only breed more disruption and violence! Only that will in turn breed the separation of our Union! You will not control people by stopping the crazies!! only slowing the progress...and breeding more

 

[Circa]

I agree with the spirit of this to the extent you are saying that urban violence generally doesn't get enough media attention in any media market. What concerns me, and a lot of Chicagoans, is that the national news media is focusing on crime in Chicago right now for some reason, and that creates the illusion that the crime problem in Chicago is worse than in other cities. I'm not sure that's true ... according to the Sun-Times article I posted earlier in this thread, Philly, Atlanta, Baltimore, St. Louis and other U.S. cities actually have higher crime rates. Chicago just appears to be worse because the total number of murders is higher ... because it's a bigger city. The misleading media attention allows other cities to be complacent about their own crime; they can say, "well, we're not as bad as Chicago." You might be; you just aren't getting the attention.

Just like in Union crews with whom I work around every day (Union) you always hear how strong that Union is.... Wonder why all the attention...

 

[Wild Bill]

WoW ! I guess stop and frisk is what we really think we need!?? Why don't we just stop all the free ways of a civilized society and implement Marshal Law! Really! Let's go ahead and do it! Call your congressmen and voice your unadulterated opinion on the matter! BC even when we go to that extent you will only breed more disruption and violence! Only that will in turn breed the separation of our Union! You will not control people by stopping the crazies!! only slowing the progress...and breeding more

I'm not a stop and frisk advocate. Frankly, I don't know whether it works or not. I mentioned the stop and frisk to illustrate two points: 1. The feds stepping in to target these groups will not happen. 2. South side politicians are scum.

 

[Redbar]

Why not legalize all drugs? (I'm being serious). Why shouldn't a grown adult be allowed to poison him- or herself? Obviously, he or she would have to be held fully accountable for any actions performed while under the influence. We should protect the innocent from drug abusers but I'm sick of the nanny trying to protect drug abusers from themselves.

I'd give my left foot if there's a single person in the country saying "I would really love to try cocaine but damn if it isn't illegal." Anyone who wants to do hard drugs already is, so legalization would not result in any spike in use. Legalize it all.

You're exactly right economically speaking as well. You notice the drug cartels don't deal with meth. That's because the ingredients for meth are readily available and it can be made domestically so meth stays too cheap for them to make much profit. Shift the supply curve to the right right and the equilibrium price per unit plummets. If it's not profitable, producers exit the market.

Been saying this for a long time, the most germane issue surrounding the drug problem is money. The violence, the moral outrage, the distaste for users, etc...all of that keep you from focusing on the best way to defeat it. Which is to see it and deal with it for what it is, an economic issue, in other words legalize it.

 

[Irish Fam]

The problem in Chicago is much deeper than drug wars and too many guns on the streets.

I also don't understand the desire to lock up hundreds or thousands of people. Why not take some of that money and do something useful with it? Perhaps put it into our education system? And maybe we won't have to shut down 50 schools over the summer.

I genuinely don't believe that kids in these neighborhoods are growing up dreaming about shooting up people in parks. Maybe give them some other options?

Just a thought.

 

[Booslum31]

Another good thread that turned pathetic...damn!