Interesting comments by Charlie Weis

[sparkyND]

In '09 Weis appointed Tenuta and Corwin Brown Co-Defensive Coordinators. They blended as well as oil and water as the product on the field showed.

Charlie Weis to run Notre Dame's offense, too - ESPN

Thank you for this. I am still trying to understand CW's downfall here at Notre Dame. The information is insightful.

 

[rocket66]

Charlie Weis coached teams were awful. The ONLY good thing he did was hire our man Tony Alford.

 

[palinurus]

His total buyout was around $18 million, if I'm not mistaken. Safe to say I could easily explain the pathetic behavior of a few ND fans with that kind of money.

I'll save my pity for those who lose their job and have to explain budget cuts, foreclosure, food subsidies, etc to their families.

Nothing warrants personal attacks on someone's family (unless the family member warrants it on his own terms). But I really agree with this. Weis got a lot of coin to get out of Dodge; you'd think that amount at least bought ND a superficial attempt by Weis to act like he has some class. But he's a pompous jerk who refuses to be accountable for gross failures as a head coach. Good riddance. I hope he loses every game.

 

[BGIF]

Thank you for this. I am still trying to understand CW's downfall here at Notre Dame. The information is insightful.

When Weis was hired in December '04 instead of coming to ND immediately he remained with the Patriots through the playoffs. It's a noble gesture for an employee not to drop everything and leave the former employer in the lurch. It's a mortal sin in management to serve two masters. He wasn't hired as a junior executive. He was hired to the C.E.O. of a multi-million dollar operation. He lost recruits because he didn't have the time to visit and he hired a coaching staff that he had never met. He hired them over the phone.

He hired Cutcliffe for QBs. Good choice but Cut had a heart attack and withdrew. He brought in Vaas, well thought of, but when Vaas alledgedly bungled the recruitment of a 5star WR, he got canned. Then he promoted Ron Powlus to QB for an administrative position. Powlus had never served as a coach.

He hired Brian Polian, a young eager beaver son of an NFL executive as an assistant. He was a hard working recruiter BUT no help on the field instructing and developing players. Over the years he coached DBs, then LBs, and Special Teams.

Rick Minter who had been run off from ND years earlier as DC was hired with inferior results.

In '07 he hired Jon Tenuta as DC because his defense was porous. Tenuta had lost his job at GT and had a reputation for not recruiting and for not getting along with his fellow coaches or players. The following year because of Tenuta's shortcomings which incuded alienating the players, he hired Corwin Brown a young vibrant coach to relate to the players. He made Tenuta and Brown co-coordinator and they clashed in a test of wills. Different personalities, different coaching styles, different coaching philosophy. That doesn't build team unity but it did explain why the defense looked like a pickup basketball game with LBs and DBs playing oblivious to each other rather than as a seamless unit.

Actually I can't find much to say favorably about most of his assistants.Neither of the two line coaches Latina or Oliver made a mark while at ND. And instead of being THE head coach and overseeing his staff, he spent most of his time BEING the QB coach and O.C.

 

[Pachuco]

This guy's still at it, huh? Hopefully, in private, he thanks his lucky stars for hitting that jackpot of a buyout. There's finger pointing at his detractors and the villainy of ND. The ND admin looked just as foolish handing over such a ridiculous, desparate contract to a man ill-prepared to be a head coach. We've dealt with the consequences of his poor leadership, and have moved on. He should do the same, and keep our University out of his mouth. In turn, I imagine quite a bit of that buyout money has gone to support the center that he and his wife created. This is a great thing to draw from a negative situation. He should focus on promoting that and Bon Jovi mixtapes.

 

[Cackalacky]

When Weis was hired in December '04 instead of coming to ND immediately he remained with the Patriots through the playoffs. It's a noble gesture for an employee not to drop everything and leave the former employer in the lurch. It's a mortal sin in management to serve two masters. He wasn't hired as a junior executive. He was hired to the C.E.O. of a multi-million dollar operation. He lost recruits because he didn't have the time to visit and he hired a coaching staff that he had never met. He hired them over the phone.

He hired Cutcliffe for QBs. Good choice but Cut had a heart attack and withdrew. He brought in Vaas, well thought of, but when Vaas alledgedly bungled the recruitment of a 5star WR, he got canned. Then he promoted Ron Powlus to QB for an administrative position. Powlus had never served as a coach.

He hired Brian Polian, a young eager beaver son of an NFL executive as an assistant. He was a hard working recruiter BUT no help on the field instructing and developing players. Over the years he coached DBs, then LBs, and Special Teams.

Rick Minter who had been run off from ND years earlier as DC was hired with inferior results.

In '07 he hired Jon Tenuta as DC because his defense was porous. Tenuta had lost his job at GT and had a reputation for not recruiting and for not getting along with his fellow coaches or players. The following year because of Tenuta's shortcomings which incuded alienating the players, he hired Corwin Brown a young vibrant coach to relate to the players. He made Tenuta and Brown co-coordinator and they clashed in a test of wills. Different personalities, different coaching styles, different coaching philosophy. That doesn't build team unity but it did explain why the defense looked like a pickup basketball game with LBs and DBs playing oblivious to each other rather than as a seamless unit.

Actually I can't find much to say favorably about most of his assistants.Neither of the two line coaches Latina or Oliver made a mark while at ND. And instead of being THE head coach and overseeing his staff, he spent most of his time BEING the QB coach and O.C.

I just blacked out reading that. Lets not forget his stints play calling on the field and in the box ... Ugh

 

[DillonHall]

I think Charlie has a shot at success, especially in a weak conference such as the Big 12. He's not as clueless as some think. IMO he's in the top half of FBS head coaches.

Although on a slightly unrelated note, I wonder if he should take a couple years away from coaching to focus on his health...

 

[Cackalacky]

I think Charlie has a shot at success, especially in a weak conference such as the Big 12. He's not as clueless as some think. IMO he's in the top half of FBS head coaches.

Although on a slightly unrelated note, I wonder if he should take a couple years away from coaching to focus on his health...

I don't think anyone doubts his X's and O's knowledge. But leading, developing, building, inspiring, etc are not his strong suits which a HC has to be able to do.

That is why I like Kelly. He has a process. He has a system ( its not perfect) but it builds on itself. To me CW has never shown he had any system or any idea on how to run a program.

 

[Cackalacky]

I think Charlie has a shot at success, especially in a weak conference such as the Big 12. He's not as clueless as some think. IMO he's in the top half of FBS head coaches.

Although on a slightly unrelated note, I wonder if he should take a couple years away from coaching to focus on his health...

I don't think anyone doubts his X's and O's knowledge. But leading, developing, building, inspiring, etc are not his strong suits which a HC has to be able to do.

That is why I like Kelly. He has a process. He has a system (its not perfect but it builds on itself). To me CW has never shown he had any system or any idea on how to run a program.

 

[palinurus]

I don't think anyone doubts his X's and O's knowledge. But leading, developing, building, inspiring, etc are not his strong suits which a HC has to be able to do.

That is why I like Kelly. He has a process. He has a system (its not perfect but it builds on itself). To me CW has never shown he had any system or any idea on how to run a program.

For me, Weis's problems were in-game overall coaching (not playcalling), skills development, leadership and teaching mental preparation/mental toughness. Seems we lost a lot of games where he didn't make in-game adjustments and we lost a lot of games late, esp. where the team did not seem mentally tough enough as a whole, to shut it down when they really had to. Re the development, Weis had a lot of top recruiting classes, if I recall right (top 15 at least?), but that was not reflected on the field in wins. Some of that must be coaching/development. I criticize Kelly's play calling on occasion (I think he misjudges his players' ability at times) and I don't really understand the recruiting reversals, but I think he does have a big picture/long term plan in mind, he "coaches up," and I don't recall many games (maybe excepting So Cal two years ago) where I felt like the team laid down. These are big reasons why I have confidence in him.

 

[Irish#1]

When Weis was hired in December '04 instead of coming to ND immediately he remained with the Patriots through the playoffs. It's a noble gesture for an employee not to drop everything and leave the former employer in the lurch. It's a mortal sin in management to serve two masters. He wasn't hired as a junior executive. He was hired to the C.E.O. of a multi-million dollar operation. He lost recruits because he didn't have the time to visit and he hired a coaching staff that he had never met. He hired them over the phone.

He hired Cutcliffe for QBs. Good choice but Cut had a heart attack and withdrew. He brought in Vaas, well thought of, but when Vaas alledgedly bungled the recruitment of a 5star WR, he got canned. Then he promoted Ron Powlus to QB for an administrative position. Powlus had never served as a coach.

He hired Brian Polian, a young eager beaver son of an NFL executive as an assistant. He was a hard working recruiter BUT no help on the field instructing and developing players. Over the years he coached DBs, then LBs, and Special Teams.

Rick Minter who had been run off from ND years earlier as DC was hired with inferior results.

In '07 he hired Jon Tenuta as DC because his defense was porous. Tenuta had lost his job at GT and had a reputation for not recruiting and for not getting along with his fellow coaches or players. The following year because of Tenuta's shortcomings which incuded alienating the players, he hired Corwin Brown a young vibrant coach to relate to the players. He made Tenuta and Brown co-coordinator and they clashed in a test of wills. Different personalities, different coaching styles, different coaching philosophy. That doesn't build team unity but it did explain why the defense looked like a pickup basketball game with LBs and DBs playing oblivious to each other rather than as a seamless unit.

Actually I can't find much to say favorably about most of his assistants.Neither of the two line coaches Latina or Oliver made a mark while at ND. And instead of being THE head coach and overseeing his staff, he spent most of his time BEING the QB coach and O.C.

Well stated BGIF. Saved me the keystrokes.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

For me, Weis's problems were in-game overall coaching (not playcalling), skills development, leadership and teaching mental preparation/mental toughness. Seems we lost a lot of games where he didn't make in-game adjustments and we lost a lot of games late, esp. where the team did not seem mentally tough enough as a whole, to shut it down when they really had to. Re the development, Weis had a lot of top recruiting classes, if I recall right (top 15 at least?), but that was not reflected on the field in wins. Some of that must be coaching/development. I criticize Kelly's play calling on occasion (I think he misjudges his players' ability at times) and I don't really understand the recruiting reversals, but I think he does have a big picture/long term plan in mind, he "coaches up," and I don't recall many games (maybe excepting So Cal two years ago) where I felt like the team laid down. These are big reasons why I have confidence in him.

Other than Te'o, however, he had lots of swing and misses on defense. Always had to win in shootouts.

 

[palinurus]

Other than Te'o, however, he had lots of swing and misses on defense. Always had to win in shootouts.

True. I'd be interested in the ratings of the defensive players he recruited. I mean, I think I am right re the overall rankings of his recruited classes, so the question is whether he just recruited better offensive players (which boosted his class ranking) or whether he recruited reasonably even talent for offense and defense and simply was a better developer of offensive recruits (not a crazy possibility, given his background). But there's no question you are right about the result on the field.

I'd also be interested in how many of the guys he recruited went to the NFL and how they break down, offense vs defense. The NFL might well see talent in a Zbikowski type player (and did) that wasn't developed to All American level in college. But those numbers might go to question of the quality of the guys he drafted. Just thinking out loud....

 

[IrishJayhawk]

True. I'd be interested in the ratings of the defensive players he recruited. I mean, I think I am right re the overall rankings of his recruited classes, so the question is whether he just recruited better offensive players (which boosted his class ranking) or whether he recruited reasonably even talent for offense and defense and simply was a better developer of offensive recruits (not a crazy possibility, given his background). But there's no question you are right about the result on the field.

I'd also be interested in how many of the guys he recruited went to the NFL and how they break down, offense vs defense. The NFL might well see talent in a Zbikowski type player (and did) that wasn't developed to All American level in college. But those numbers might go to question of the quality of the guys he drafted. Just thinking out loud....

He recruited better offensive players.

Clausen, Young, Rudolph, Aldridge (5 star, but hurt), Allen (also hurt in HS), Ragone (also hurt in HS), Crist, Floyd...to name a few.

 

[DillonHall]

I don't think anyone doubts his X's and O's knowledge. But leading, developing, building, inspiring, etc are not his strong suits which a HC has to be able to do.

That is why I like Kelly. He has a process. He has a system ( its not perfect) but it builds on itself. To me CW has never shown he had any system or any idea on how to run a program.

Nobody's confusing Weis with a national championship-worthy coach (not anymore, at least). But he has enough knowledge/ability to lead a program into the top 25 eventually IMO.

 

[DillonHall]

True. I'd be interested in the ratings of the defensive players he recruited. I mean, I think I am right re the overall rankings of his recruited classes, so the question is whether he just recruited better offensive players (which boosted his class ranking) or whether he recruited reasonably even talent for offense and defense and simply was a better developer of offensive recruits (not a crazy possibility, given his background). But there's no question you are right about the result on the field.

I'd also be interested in how many of the guys he recruited went to the NFL and how they break down, offense vs defense. The NFL might well see talent in a Zbikowski type player (and did) that wasn't developed to All American level in college. But those numbers might go to question of the quality of the guys he drafted. Just thinking out loud....

Zibby was an All-American

 

[Cackalacky]

Nobody's confusing Weis with a national championship-worthy coach (not anymore, at least). But he has enough knowledge/ability to lead a program into the top 25 eventually IMO.

I disagree, respectfully. He has not shown me at anytime he can develop young men into a football team. Particularly Defense.

 

[DillonHall]

I disagree, respectfully. He has not shown me at anytime he can develop young men into a football team. Particularly Defense.

What about ND 2005-2006? And you don't need a good defense to be a top 25 team in college football.

 

[Cackalacky]

Zibby was an All-American

Willingham player.

 

[Cackalacky]

What about ND 2005-2006? And you don't need a good defense to be a top 25 team in college football.

He polished Willingham players going into their Junior and senior years. Once his recruits were in the wheels were off as dissected above by BGIF.

LOL at no defense. OK ur right.

 

[palinurus]

Zibby was an All-American

Okay, I forgot that he was third team or whatever, but you get my point.

In fact, here's the list of ND NFL players -- it's a little slanted to offensive, but it's essentially even. True, it doesn't take into account who recruiting them, and it doesn't count guys who have come and gone in the NFL since playing for Weis, but it's not lopsidedly offensive players....

NFL Players by College - N - National Football League - ESPN

 

[DillonHall]

He polished Willingham players going into their Junior and senior years. Once his recruits were in the wheels were off as dissected above by BGIF.

LOL at no defense. OK ur right.

So Weis' back to back BCS seasons don't count because he didn't recruit them? So when he won 19 games in two seasons, he didn't need to "develop young men into a football team" during that period?

I agree he couldn't sustain a program during his first stint as a head coach. But don't try to tell me that he hasn't shown potential in the past.

 

[Cackalacky]

So Weis' back to back BCS seasons don't count because he didn't recruit them? So when he won 19 games in two seasons, he didn't need to "develop young men into a football team" during that period?

I agree he couldn't sustain a program during his first stint as a head coach. But don't try to tell me that he hasn't shown potential in the past.

He is a good OC. He has in no manner shown ME anything about running a top 25 program as HC. I can see that you are not grasping what myself and others before have said regarding his ability and track record to handle both sides of the ball. You are entitled to your opinion.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

So glad Charlie is gone. I pray we never go back to the abyss that was Davie, Willingham, and Weis.

 

[DillonHall]

He is a good OC. He has in no manner shown ME anything about running a top 25 program as HC. I can see that you are not grasping what myself and others before have said regarding his ability and track record to handle both sides of the ball. You are entitled to your opinion.

You seem to not be able to grasp the fact that you don't have to be good on both sides of the ball to be a top 25 team.

 

[Cackalacky]

You seem to not be able to grasp the fact that you don't have to be good on both sides of the ball to be a top 25 team.

I grasp that just fine. I don't think he is a top 25 HC nor do I think he will be able to make Kansas a top 25 team. Please enjoy the rest of your evening.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Just a terrible coach. I'm glad he's gone and I do not care about what he is saying about his time here. He was a massive disappointment and could only develop QBs.

 

[Irish#1]

So glad Charlie is gone. I pray we never go back to the abyss that was Davie, Willingham, and Weis.

As long as Swarbrick is the AD we'll have a good HC. Our dismal play since Lou was due to hiring the wrong guys.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

And then on the other end of the terrible coaches spectrum you have Gerry Faust. The guy clearly couldn't hack it, realizes it, but has never shown any animosity or bitterness toward the school at all. He took it for what it was worth, and still enjoys those days in the sun even though things didn't work out.

 

[Cackalacky]

And then on the other end of the terrible coaches spectrum you have Gerry Faust. The guy clearly couldn't hack it, realizes it, but has never shown any animosity or bitterness toward the school at all. He took it for what it was worth, and still enjoys those days in the sun even though things didn't work out.

Yup. My Grandfather would curse Gerry for all he was worth every weekend.