Notre Dame begins accepting illegals

mgriff

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If that doesn't win post of the year, I don't know what does.

And how, exactly, would people like the church/ND to help them get citizenship to do it the 'right' way? Deport them to a country they've never been to and don't know the customs or even language of? As long as no legal path to citizenship for illegal immigrants exists, this is Notre Dame's best option for not turning a blind eye to the millions of illegal immigrants.

Hey, it's a very complex issue and I simply gave my opinion on it. It doesn't mean its right or the best way to do things, it's just my opinion.

Essentially, now we've got second generation illegals which have turned into American citizens because they were born here. Breaking families up is very sad, so we can't do that. Instea we'll just reward people who broke laws to get into our country by granting them citizenship? Just because they had a child here? Now that doesn't seem fair to the thousands of other hopeful immigrants doing it the right way. I would love some quality debate by our elected representatives, free of bullshit political drama, but I know that isn't going to happen.
 

tko

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There must be a need for extra help with installing field turf.
 

irishpat183

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If that doesn't win post of the year, I don't know what does.

And how, exactly, would people like the church/ND to help them get citizenship to do it the 'right' way? Deport them to a country they've never been to and don't know the customs or even language of? As long as no legal path to citizenship for illegal immigrants exists, this is Notre Dame's best option for not turning a blind eye to the millions of illegal immigrants.

Seriously?

You're saying there is "no path"?? You been watching too much Rick Maddow again, havent you?

My wife and her family are living proof there is a "path". It's just not a free ride nor is it a quick process.
 

Anchorman

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Again, why is it ok for some to have to follow immigration laws and others not?

Because in most cases the people who would be applying to ND are the children of the immigrants, who have done no harm nor even broken the law willingly. Even if we're regarding the parents as 'criminals', why are their kids punished? I'm guessing there are students at ND with parents with criminal records, no?
 

Irish Houstonian

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ND can admit whoever it wants, within the law. But it's comical to release this sort of thing to the press and pretend like it's now some grand bastion of inclusiveness. Most HS kids -- legal or illegal -- have absolutely no shot of being educated at ND. And that hasn't changed.

It's like the Harvard Club changing it's illegal immigrant policy... Let's not pretend like this is some grand gesture to mankind.
 

irishpat183

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Hey, it's a very complex issue and I simply gave my opinion on it. It doesn't mean its right or the best way to do things, it's just my opinion.

Essentially, now we've got second generation illegals which have turned into American citizens because they were born here. Breaking families up is very sad, so we can't do that. Instea we'll just reward people who broke laws to get into our country by granting them citizenship? Just because they had a child here? Now that doesn't seem fair to the thousands of other hopeful immigrants doing it the right way. I would love some quality debate by our elected representatives, free of bullshit political drama, but I know that isn't going to happen.

Hey, we agree on something.


But yes, break up the families unless they are willing to go through the steps to becoming citizens. Tough break. Like you said, they took advantage of our system.
 

mgriff

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AND WE HAVEN"T DONE THAT???? Things are much, much better and we have evolved. What is the point in brining up Native Americans (that are also immigrants, if you follow history) when talking about immigration problems in 2013?

How many muslim radicals were trying to blow up buildings back then? How many mexican drug cartels were importing illegal drugs to the Sioux tribes back then? Where there child sex trade slavers back then?

Didn't think so. So while we need to "learn" from our past....we also need to keep in mind that there are criminals and bad people that use that bleeding heart mentality against us. I'm not saying everyone coming over here is bad...but we have laws in place to protect us from those that are, and its not too much to ask for people to follow the laws in place and it's just ignorant not to follow them.

Again, why is it ok for some to have to follow immigration laws and others not?

You're just being angry, and you clearly haven't read a damn thing I posted, because I said, I don't agree with amnesty or punishing people who are doing it the right way.

Compose yourself, take a step back, read the initial comment I replied to. Then read my reply to you, then read this reply, and if you do that, I think you'll be able to deduce what I'm saying, because you're clearly having issues.
 

kmoose

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They didn't break any law, but you shouldn't just stop there. We broke numerous treaties with the Native Americans, most notably under Jackson. The U.S. government robbed them of their land, sent them west, and robbed them again when it was convenient. You can call it right of conquest if you want.

Oh, I'm not trying to defend their treatment of the Native Americans, but that is a completely separate issue from illegal immigration. To say that our ancestors were all illegal immigrants (which people use to insinuate that we should accept illegal immigration today) is simply not true.

But the immigration debate is really separate, again, from ND's decision to accept them. As I said; it's a tough position for the school.......... I don't envy them the backlash that is likely to come.
 

irishpat183

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Because in most cases the people who would be applying to ND are the children of the immigrants, who have done no harm nor even broken the law willingly. Even if we're regarding the parents as 'criminals', why are their kids punished? I'm guessing there are students at ND with parents with criminal records, no?

You're kidding......Good lord.


So while they're running through the desert in the Texas sun putting their life at risk, after paying money to a guide, evading boarder patrol agents....they don't have a clue they're doing anything wrong?


that's about the most ignorant thing I think i've heard in a while. Of all of the immigrants coming over here, mexicans know exactly what they're doing.When it comes to mexian immigrants that are using the Texas/AZ/CA boarder, they know exactly what they're doing wrong.
 

mgriff

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Oh, I'm not trying to defend their treatment of the Native Americans, but that is a completely separate issue from illegal immigration. To say that our ancestors were all illegal immigrants (which people use to insinuate that we should accept illegal immigration today) is simply not true.

But the immigration debate is really separate, again, from ND's decision to accept them. As I said; it's a tough position for the school.......... I don't envy them the backlash that is likely to come.

I honestly think they are trying to support the Catholic Church at large on all of this, even though we've seen them break free on some occasions. Amnesty would really help fill some pews on Sundays, with religion quickly losing members. I know it's not a popular opinion but it plays a part IMO.
 

tko

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over/under on hateful posts in this thread and over/under on how many mooks get banned over this thread?
 

Anchorman

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You're kidding......Good lord.


So while they're running through the desert in the Texas sun putting their life at risk, after paying money to a guide, evading boarder patrol agents....they don't have a clue they're doing anything wrong?


that's about the most ignorant thing I think i've heard in a while. Of all of the immigrants coming over here, mexicans know exactly what they're doing.When it comes to mexian immigrants that are using the Texas/AZ/CA boarder, they know exactly what they're doing wrong.


Not talking about the immigrants themselves. Talking about their kids that got carried over when they were 3. We're punishing that kid, too. We're saying he should GTFO, while his younger brother is a legal citizen because he was still in the womb at that point and was born in the US.
 

irishpat183

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I honestly think they are trying to support the Catholic Church at large on all of this, even though we've seen them break free on some occasions. Amnesty would really help fill some pews on Sundays, with religion quickly losing members. I know it's not a popular opinion but it plays a part IMO.

I get supporting the Catholic Church, but as Houstonian said....why announce it? THere is no reason to do that other than draw attention to yourself and which ever side they sit on the issue, there will be backlash.
 

irishpat183

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Not talking about the immigrants themselves. Talking about their kids that got carried over when they were 3. We're punishing that kid, too. We're saying he should GTFO, while his younger brother is a legal citizen because he was still in the womb at that point and was born in the US.

So at what point do we say no?

Maybe if we punish the families, the parents will be responsible enough to not put their families in that situation in the first place?

Why is all the responsibility on us????
 

irishpat183

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I see Pat finally found this thread.

Good bye rational dialogue, it was nice knowing you.

Hey! I'm being rational!

1. Do it ithe right way, and everyone should have the opportunity to enjoy the greatest country in the world

2. Do it the wrong way, or if you're here for the wrong reasons, and you can get out and take your family with you.


It's really that simple.


And ND shouldn't have put themselves in this position.
 

kmoose

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Maybe if we punish the families, the parents will be responsible enough to not put their families in that situation in the first place?

And what if they aren't? What's your plan for the potentially tens of thousands of parent-less citizens, whose families were deported back to their home country? Are you just going to turn them loose into the streets, to fend for themselves? I'm not a bleeding heart, saying that we have to keep the families together. But I am saying that we better have a plan, if we deport the parents, to keep these kids from getting tossed aside and ending up with no option other than becoming a criminal, just to survive.
 

irishpat183

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And what if they aren't? What's your plan for the potentially tens of thousands of parent-less citizens, whose families were deported back to their home country? Are you just going to turn them loose into the streets, to fend for themselves? I'm not a bleeding heart, saying that we have to keep the families together. But I am saying that we better have a plan, if we deport the parents, to keep these kids from getting tossed aside and ending up with no option other than becoming a criminal, just to survive.

Send them back with their families, that was the point. If you're born here to illegal parents, you are going back with them. It's that simple. I don't know why we insist on giving that free pass to people.

Are parents no longer responsible for their children? Why do you assume I just want them to be let loose on the streets?

You know, and this is a stretch, we could ask, politely, that the parents of these children explain to them why they're being sent back and why they have to come with them...

I know, ridiculous.
 

FearTheBeard

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Send them back with their families, that was the point. If you're born here to illegal parents, you are going back with them. It's that simple. I don't know why we insist on giving that free pass to people.

Are parents no longer responsible for their children? Why do you assume I just want them to be let loose on the streets?

You know, and this is a stretch, we could ask, politely, that the parents of these children explain to them why they're being sent back and why they have to come with them...

I know, ridiculous.

I agree with what Pat has been saying. Why reward people for breaking the law? Especially when other people have to do it the right way and go through a long process. Parents are responsible for their kids, and always should be. So if they choose to break the law and come over illegally and have kids, when they get sent back to their country the kids should go with them.
 

johnnycando

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Wake up, 'Merica!

9amabesu.jpg


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kmoose

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Send them back with their families, that was the point. If you're born here to illegal parents, you are going back with them. It's that simple. I don't know why we insist on giving that free pass to people.

Are parents no longer responsible for their children? Why do you assume I just want them to be let loose on the streets?

You know, and this is a stretch, we could ask, politely, that the parents of these children explain to them why they're being sent back and why they have to come with them...

I know, ridiculous.

Deport US citizens? Because, as of today's laws, those children born on US soil are US citizens. So you want to punish people for breaking laws, but it's ok for you break the law by deporting a legal citizen?
 

johnnycando

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My stance is this: there are plenty of legal citizens and American born citizens that don't give back, or even give period.

They take. Consume. They're consumers. Oxygen thieves.

If we can get people who become meaningful members of society, I'm all for it.

Lets cut the fat.

Watch "Gangs of New York" sometime.

We were all immigrants once...

Unless you are full blood Native American. In which only a very small portion of those claiming that heritage actually are pure bloods today.

If the kids get offered a scholarship, then hell yeah! Chances are, they're givers. Not takers.



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Anchorman

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Send them back with their families, that was the point. If you're born here to illegal parents, you are going back with them. It's that simple. I don't know why we insist on giving that free pass to people.

Are parents no longer responsible for their children? Why do you assume I just want them to be let loose on the streets?

You know, and this is a stretch, we could ask, politely, that the parents of these children explain to them why they're being sent back and why they have to come with them...

I know, ridiculous.

The kids born here are every bit as much of a citizen as you or I. Get over it.
 

ACamp1900

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Deport my wife.... Please.


;)


I will be interested to find if entrance standards and financial support is the same if that ever comes out, other than that... Eh
 
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The difference between when the people who would become the Native Americans came here and how Europeans came here is that no one else was here when the Natives came. If the Native Americans are immigrants than everyone who doesn't live in the same valley in Africa the homo sapiens originated from tens of thousands of years ago.
 

ACamp1900

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In fairness...' Native Americans' doesn't refer to some unified people... And problem with that is we don't know for sure... we don't know how many tribes were wiped out in tribal wars that ended up deciding land at that point Euros came here... We do know there were tribal conflicts over land at the point the Pilgrims got here... Its not as simple as saying "they came , they got along and smoked peace pipes, then the Spaniards and English came and took the land that was always theirs" ... anyway, little side point.
 
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In fairness...' Native Americans' doesn't refer to some unified people... And problem with that is we don't know for sure... we don't know how many tribes were wiped out in tribal wars that ended up deciding land at that point Euros came here... We do know there were tribal conflicts over land at the point the Pilgrims got here... Its not as simple as saying "they came , they got along and smoked peace pipes, then the Spaniards and English came and took the land that was always theirs" ... anyway, little side point.

Some Mexican guy in 100 years is going to say "Well we did steal America but we can't say for sure that Americans really were a unified people... there was a tribal war between the North and South. They were never really a unified nation after that....
 

ACamp1900

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Some Mexican guy in 100 years is going to say "Well we did steal America but we can't say for sure that Americans really were a unified people... there was a tribal war between the North and South. They were never really a unified nation after that....

Human nature being what it usually is, whoever governs this land in the future probably won't give two thoughts about who governed it 10 years prior, let alone 100... Or how they came to govern it.
 
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dshans

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... evading boarder patrol agents ...

Is this a special cadre akin to sorority "house mothers," dorm monitors that enforce parietal hours or schlubs manning the front desk at a rooming house?

When it comes to "illegals" I'm sure that I have at least one in my Irish family. An uncle of my grandmother, with a price on his head for his IRA activities, sailed from Ireland to Canada, altered (by one vowel) the spelling of his last name to enter the U.S. and settled in NYC. My grandmother listed him as a family member to "grease" her immigration. She changed the spelling of her name on forms to match the one he had adopted.

Granted it was a different era. At the time American industrialists, manufacturers and farmers were eager for low paid labor willing to work long, grueling hours to escape their lives of desperation, be it political, religious or economic. It mattered little if they were Micks, Spics, Bohunks, Chinks, Wops, etc.* It was in the best interest of the capitalists to allow that free flow of bodies.

Keep in mind that the bulk of the American Southwest (Northern California, too) was Mexican territory before being wrested away forcibly. Florida was "Spanish." New Orleans to Minnesota was "French." The thirteen original colonies "were" British, Dutch, Norse, Italian or whatever. Layered on top of that is the bald faced fact that there were residents displaced and removed over time. The native "reservations" are legally separate nations. Are they treated as such?

Do you resent that African slaves and their progeny were (FINALLY) granted full person-hood and citizenship in the course of the Civil War, without classes, paper work and interminable bureaucratic delays?

Politics and economics aside, the key is COMPASSION and RESPECT. This is a social issue. Let's maintain a a humane attitude and approach.
 
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