'14 NC RB Elijah Hood (UNC Verbal)

[Domina Nostra]

The same could be said for a kid that wants to go to a less rigorous academic school so they can concentrate on football, right? They are essentially doing the same thing as a ND kid spurning the Ivy League, just on their own level. The reality is that there is less than 1% statistical chance for kids to make it to the pros, so choosing your school on football alone is silly overall. But it's not our choice where these kids go, and if they are more comfortable at another school, who are we to say that its a bad decision?

Right, although I am not sure comfort-level is the right way to make the choice, unless you mean it as a proxy for all the other stuff we mentioned above.

But the statistics don't reflect the fact that guys like Michael Floyd, Matt Barkley, and Trent Richardson have a much, much better than 1% chance of going pro. They are probably going to get a chance in they get good coaching and stay focused. For them, Alabama may claim to enhance their already good prospects the most. Taking it from, say, 40% to 60%. ND certainly isn't goign to hurt their odds, but it may not be seen to improve them as much. Say they go from 40% to only 55%. In this sense, then, their choosing ND could be seen as a hedge against a career-ending injury. Walking away with an ND diploma leaves you in a much better position.

On the other hand, someone like Austin Collinsworth may have a less than normal chance at the NFL based on his size. His choosing ND over Harvard, therefore, is more like a short term decision to maximize his career options after CFB, while leaving open the possibility that he may, in fact, pan out. Robby Toma is a great example of a kid who may not have gotten a shot at the NFL had he gone to Harvard instead.

But the big point is ND has very successfully made itself into a place where you give up the least in every category. It is the video-game palyer with no 10s, but the highest overall rating. It really should be a hard place for parents to say no to.

 

[SouthernComfort]

Being a parent, I cannot fathom making a self centered decision that would impact my child's future like this. As others have previously stated, staying local exposes a young adult to tons more potential negative influence (friends, local girlfriends that arent academic minded). To pressure your child to give up a huge life changing boost so you can see him whenever you want has to be the top of the selfish food chain IMO. These people really need to take a long, hard look at themselves and what they are doing to their kid.

 

[Grahambo]

People need to stop taking it so personal. The kid said ND has done everything right; be satisfied with that and move along.

 

[irishff1014]

People need to stop taking it so personal. The kid said ND has done everything right; be satisfied with that and move along.

Yup he didn't want to be Irish. That's fine see you on the field when ND is beating all the ACC teams.

 

[koonja]

People need to stop taking it so personal. The kid said ND has done everything right; be satisfied with that and move along.

Yep.

Elijah A) came out and said it was no fault of ND and B) decommited on August.

It could be a lot worse. Best of luck. On to the next one.

 

[IrishLax]

Eye of the beholder. UNC may be a very big deal for the Hood family. College period can be a big deal.

To further emphasize, we have kids that could have gotten assistance (which is pretty much a full ride) for Ivy League schools. But instead, chose Notre Dame.


Finally, i'm not entirely sure that its any of our business whether Elijah or his parents want to maximize educational experience. It's his life, not ours.

Pretty much /thread right here. I get mildly annoyed when kids/their parents are needlessly slimey, deceitful, immature, fake, or otherwise full of crap when playing the "what school should I attend?" game. We've had many in our time at ND... Alex Anzalone is a great example. From everything "people in the know" have said he was always planning on going to Florida and the hangup - if anything - was just making it through the season w/o injury and Florida having enough room/wanting him. His Dad supposedly enrolled him on his last visit down there while still "committed" to ND. So why did that douche find the need to wait until the day before he was supposed to show up on campus to decommit? That's just unnecessary.

Elijah Hood is the opposite of that. He committed to ND, changed his mind, released a classy statement, and will now stay close to home. The pressures/pull of staying home were always there and it was finally enough to reach the tipping point. Academic fraud aside, UNC is a pretty darn solid school. So who is anyone to really "judge" here? It sucks FOR US but it is what it is.

I'm having a hard time getting worked up over this even when he's probably my 3rd favorite recruit we've had in the Kelly era... life goes on and everyone will forget about this in 9 days.

 

[IrishLax]

As for our issues with "5" players... I think we are ill-equipped to hold on to most 5 players from around the country.

For starters, if they commit they will have continuous local pressure to decommit and stay home. Second, Notre Dame isn't set up to "woo" or "wow" most football-first big ego guys. No epic athlete dorms, mediocre facilities, not in a flashy city or truly bumpin' college town, etc. Third, if/when we do sign them, Kelly isn't going to coddle guys with attitude problems AND we don't insulate our athletes enough to keep the inevitable missteps under wraps AND we have academic pressures... it's a recipe for guys running home, whereas an Urban Meyer at Ohio State will coddle his stars, cover up wrong doings, and make sure they take whatever joke classes necessary to stay eligible.

 

[Anchorman]

Being a parent, I cannot fathom making a self centered decision that would impact my child's future like this. As others have previously stated, staying local exposes a young adult to tons more potential negative influence (friends, local girlfriends that arent academic minded). To pressure your child to give up a huge life changing boost so you can see him whenever you want has to be the top of the selfish food chain IMO. These people really need to take a long, hard look at themselves and what they are doing to their kid.

You don't know the parents. They know Elijah better than anyone, including himself.

Maybe he wants to be closer and they are willing to cover for him.

Maybe they know Elijah wouldn't thrive well far from home and are trying to avoid any drama a semester or year into school that would set back his education and career.


It's not like UNC is a run-of-the-mill school. It's a phenomenal opportunity from an education standpoint.

 

[Cackalacky]

As for our issues with "5" players... I think we are ill-equipped to hold on to most 5 players from around the country.

For starters, if they commit they will have continuous local pressure to decommit and stay home. Second, Notre Dame isn't set up to "woo" or "wow" most football-first big ego guys. No epic athlete dorms, mediocre facilities, not in a flashy city or truly bumpin' college town, etc. Third, if/when we do sign them, Kelly isn't going to coddle guys with attitude problems AND we don't insulate our athletes enough to keep the inevitable missteps under wraps AND we have academic pressures... it's a recipe for guys running home, whereas an Urban Meyer at Ohio State will coddle his stars, cover up wrong doings, and make sure they take whatever joke classes necessary to stay eligible.

We R ND

 

[Ndaccountant]

As for our issues with "5" players... I think we are ill-equipped to hold on to most 5 players from around the country.

For starters, if they commit they will have continuous local pressure to decommit and stay home. Second, Notre Dame isn't set up to "woo" or "wow" most football-first big ego guys. No epic athlete dorms, mediocre facilities, not in a flashy city or truly bumpin' college town, etc. Third, if/when we do sign them, Kelly isn't going to coddle guys with attitude problems AND we don't insulate our athletes enough to keep the inevitable missteps under wraps AND we have academic pressures... it's a recipe for guys running home, whereas an Urban Meyer at Ohio State will coddle his stars, cover up wrong doings, and make sure they take whatever joke classes necessary to stay eligible.

So what changed in the last 25 years? Holtz was certainly able to do it and Davie was pretty good in recruiting as well (although he had one hell of staff looking back on it).

IMO, ND's problem is that it cannot advertise that it sends players to league as high draft picks with consistency. Yes, we have TE's that have done well and we are recruiting them well. We sent Floyd and Tate and hopefully guys like DD can continue that. Teo was the first LB I can remember from ND going that high. Truth be told, aside from the last 3 or 4 years, ND has largely been absent from the 1st round for the better part of 10 - 15 years. This is starting to turn around and ND can use it to their advantage, but they are still behind other elite teams in this regard.

 

[Kak7304]

You don't know the parents. They know Elijah better than anyone, including himself.

Maybe he wants to be closer and they are willing to cover for him.

Maybe they know Elijah wouldn't thrive well far from home and are trying to avoid any drama a semester or year into school that would set back his education and career.


It's not like UNC is a run-of-the-mill school. It's a phenomenal opportunity from an education standpoint.

Like UM, this is true for the general student population but not necessarily the athletes unless they want to take advantage(see recent academic scandal at UNC). ND just doesn't have the BS majors other schools have for athletes. A majority of ours get a business degree from an excellent business school.

 

[clashmore_jon]

Like UM, this is true for the general student population but not necessarily the athletes unless they want to take advantage(see recent academic scandal at UNC). ND just doesn't have the BS majors other schools have for athletes. A majority of ours get a business degree from an excellent business school.

at what point did you stop considering business a bs major?

 

[Cackalacky]

So what changed in the last 25 years? Holtz was certainly able to do it and Davie was pretty good in recruiting as well (although he had one hell of staff looking back on it).

From what stories BGIF has told that I have read: changes in ND Administration, NCAA recruiting changes as a result of Vinny Cerrato, are very significant.

I would also say Davie, Willingham, Weis era issues. Very few bowl wins, No BCS wins, very few good and notable NFL players of consistency other than TE/OL and Tuck and Abiramiri.

 

[dublinirish]

what is the Television degree at ND alot of the football players take (like Nix, KVR)? Also the industrial design one Manti did? What do they entail and has anyone on here graduated from them?

 

[Meacon Irish]

The best thing I can say about this, and it's something we should all keep in mind, is that at least he did this now and not on Signing Day. Our biggest disappointment with What's-his-face-in-Houston was that he left us hanging without a back-up plan. Now we have five months to find another running back.

We'll be fine.

 

[Anchorman]

what is the Television degree at ND alot of the football players take (like Nix, KVR)? Also the industrial design one Manti did? What do they entail and has anyone on here graduated from them?

Without calling out any major in particular, there are "easier" programs at ND. I think ND does do things the right way, but anyone who's been to ND can tell you that some of the things our fans decry elsewhere also occur here. It's no coincidence that well known easy classes/profs/majors are packed full of athletes.

 

[IrishLax]

So what changed in the last 25 years? Holtz was certainly able to do it and Davie was pretty good in recruiting as well (although he had one hell of staff looking back on it).

Everything has changed since Holtz, really thanks to Monk Malloy. We were at the top of CFB, and then we actively tried to basically disassociate the university from football. Pay, facilities, etc. all fell WAY behind to the point where when Willingham took over it was the perfect combination of incompetence and institutional failure.

We still get 5 players. Last year we signed FOUR of them and 3... by early reports... seem to be great fits. But there are a lot of 5 players with all kinds of baggage that we don't cater too and will accordingly wash out. And even the ones we do cater to will continue to be tough pulls because of the way the recruiting game has changed. Just have to live with it and accept the fact that most years we will be coming into the season with ~80 players if we continue to dig for diamonds and go actively into places in the south. The alternative is going the Stanford route... small recruiting classes, not much focus on high players unless they're truly a perfect fit, lots of unheralded players that you think you can develop. I don't think that's a good idea. Really, all our issues could be fixed by simply aiming to oversign by a player or two to account for attrition... or taking JUCOs.

IMO, ND's problem is that it cannot advertise that it sends players to league as high draft picks with consistency. Yes, we have TE's that have done well and we are recruiting them well. We sent Floyd and Tate and hopefully guys like DD can continue that. Teo was the first LB I can remember from ND going that high. Truth be told, aside from the last 3 or 4 years, ND has largely been absent from the 1st round for the better part of 10 - 15 years. This is starting to turn around and ND can use it to their advantage, but they are still behind other elite teams in this regard.

This is largely contradictory. Yes, during and around Willingham we were devoid of talent. But you just listed a bunch of high draft picks since Weis started recruiting and Kelly started developing. In modern history... which is what kids would be looking at... we're doing just fine, if not great. Since 2010, we have 7 players drafted in the top 2 rounds. This is MUCH better than the other Midwest powers. Michigan has only 2. Ohio State has only 3. Stanford? 5. Alabama is the king of the hill with 17 and no one approaches them. Florida has 11.

So this is obviously not the issue. We're MUCH better in recent history at putting kids in the league than most schools we're recruiting against and nationally only fall behind the SEC powers. And we're going to have, barring injury, at least 2 more 1st round draft picks this year.

 

[NDFAN22]

So he is 100% gone?

 

[BGIF]

So where is the outrage for the guys on our team that had offers to play at Ivy League schools like Harvard? The self interest of the player/parents of their kid being on tv with a major football program was bigger than the world class education that the Ivy League offers.

...

1. Dublin didn't express "outrage" the word he used was "vexed". You took it to a different level not Dublin.

2. Are you trying to say ND parents steered because they wanted to see their kid on TV rather than get a world class education? ND does provide a world class education and for football players ND has a higher graduation rate than Harvard per the NCAA.

The same could be said for a kid that wants to go to a less rigorous academic school so they can concentrate on football, right? They are essentially doing the same thing as a ND kid spurning the Ivy League, just on their own level. The reality is that there is less than 1% statistical chance for kids to make it to the pros, so choosing your school on football alone is silly overall. ...

BS! BS! BS!

A student athlete who spurns a world class education at ND with a 97% football graduation success rate to go to Oklahoma with a 47% GSR is the same as one spurning ND's world class education and 97% GSR for Harvard's world class education and 96% GSR?

Yes, statistically around 1% of kids make it to pro football. But at Harvard the rate is <<< 1% while at ND the rate is >>>1%.

ND has put more players in the NFL in a single year than Haravrd did in a century.

ND provides a World Class Football Program with a World Class Graduation Rate and provides that mom and dad and grandma, and grandpa, and neighbors and friends can see the games every week, around the world, not just 6 home games. (Do you really think a bedridden grandma Vanderdoes is going to drives 6 hours and then sit 4 hours on a stadium bench to watch grandson?)


And sorry to burst your disingenuious bubble but the vast majority of football recruits DO make their decision based on football alone. Year after year, we read:

"I've been a fan since the 3rd Grade"

"The weight room is awesome!"

"The helmets are the greatest"

"Coach Buckeye is going to see all my home works get done."

"Have you seen their depth chart, I could start now!"

"I got sent the 51 million dollar letter."

"They sent me mail every day AND hand signed them. They REALLY want me."

"The SEC is the only place to play if you want to play in The League."

"I always wanted to play for Coach Gigabucks. I'd follow him anywhere."

"Coach Gigabucks promised me, he won't bolt to the NFL until after I'm out of eligibility,"

Etc, ad nauseum.

 

[Cackalacky]

The best thing I can say about this, and it's something we should all keep in mind, is that at least he did this now and not on Signing Day. Our biggest disappointment with What's-his-face-in-Houston was that he left us hanging without a back-up plan. Now we have five months to find another running back.

We'll be fine.

#5

 

[tussin]

Everything has changed since Holtz, really thanks to Monk Malloy. We were at the top of CFB, and then we actively tried to basically disassociate the university from football. Pay, facilities, etc. all fell WAY behind to the point where when Willingham took over it was the perfect combination of incompetence and institutional failure.

We still get 5 players. Last year we signed FOUR of them and 3... by early reports... seem to be great fits. But there are a lot of 5 players with all kinds of baggage that we don't cater too and will accordingly wash out. And even the ones we do cater to will continue to be tough pulls because of the way the recruiting game has changed. Just have to live with it and accept the fact that most years we will be coming into the season with ~80 players if we continue to dig for diamonds and go actively into places in the south. The alternative is going the Stanford route... small recruiting classes, not much focus on high players unless they're truly a perfect fit, lots of unheralded players that you think you can develop. I don't think that's a good idea. Really, all our issues could be fixed by simply aiming to oversign by a player or two to account for attrition... or taking JUCOs.



This is largely contradictory. Yes, during and around Willingham we were devoid of talent. But you just listed a bunch of high draft picks since Weis started recruiting and Kelly started developing. In modern history... which is what kids would be looking at... we're doing just fine, if not great. Since 2010, we have 7 players drafted in the top 2 rounds. This is MUCH better than the other Midwest powers. Michigan has only 2. Ohio State has only 3. Stanford? 5. Alabama is the king of the hill with 17 and no one approaches them. Florida has 11.

So this is obviously not the issue. We're MUCH better in recent history at putting kids in the league than most schools we're recruiting against and nationally only fall behind the SEC powers. And we're going to have, barring injury, at least 2 more 1st round draft picks this year.

Just wondering, what facilities in particular are especially lacking? I've seen pictures of the football facilities (weight room, etc.) and they look pretty fantastic. Am I being naive and Bama's / LSU's facilities are just on another level?

 

[IrishLax]

what is the Television degree at ND alot of the football players take (like Nix, KVR)? Also the industrial design one Manti did? What do they entail and has anyone on here graduated from them?

Film, Theater, Television (FTT)... is pretty legit, but it's not hard. Lots of general populous students do it... no different than any legitimate film program at another school.

My roommate did industrial design and I know a lot of kids who did it. Think of it like architecture for products you use on a day-to-day basis, instead of for buildings. You develop skills to be a designer for products... like shoes or cars or whatever. It's very legit, especially when you combine it with a marketing or other business degree. He was an athlete, and after a brief stint playing pro sports, is using the skills he picked up from his degree as a web developer for an NBA franchise.

The point is that no matter what you take at ND it is a real degree that real students take and you can really apply. Even if you look down on Art History or Sociology majors, the athletes are doing the same work as everyone else in those majors and getting the same development. You can't no-show classes, have to do the work, and you develop the skills. This is different than a Michigan where you can do "general studies" or a UNC (not to pick on UNC, they just have the most public case of this recently) where through academic fraud you can get As for no-show classes.

 

[Luckylucci]

THI reporting that it could be a matter of days before Elijah commits to UNC. Could come prior to Elijah's saturday night season opener.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

UNC's degree value is surprisingly poor compared to other BCS schools (56/71). Their GSR figures are decent, but that still puts them in the bottom 1/3 for African American ROI. And in light of their recent academic fraud, I question the quality of education most of their athletes are receiving. But it probably doesn't matter much here. As others have noted, (1) parents aren't often well-informed on this type of data; and (2) for some, any college is a big deal. UNC does have a solid academic reputation, particularly among locals, but there it is.

Regarding parents "selfishly" pushing their kids to stay close instead of attending an elite university, it probably comes down to cultural values. Remember when Bill Cosby got crucified for suggesting that black parents are doing their kids a disservice when they give them names like "Shaniqua" and "D'Squarius"? He made that argument as a man who holds bourgeois values and believes in the importance of upward social mobility. The people he was criticizing value racial solidarity over those things, so it mostly fell on deaf ears. It's likely that the Hoods' values are different from ours.

IMO, ND's problem is that it cannot advertise that it sends players to league as high draft picks with consistency. Yes, we have TE's that have done well and we are recruiting them well. We sent Floyd and Tate and hopefully guys like DD can continue that. Teo was the first LB I can remember from ND going that high. Truth be told, aside from the last 3 or 4 years, ND has largely been absent from the 1st round for the better part of 10 - 15 years. This is starting to turn around and ND can use it to their advantage, but they are still behind other elite teams in this regard.

I disagree. The kids who look at college as a mere stepping stone to the NFL are not the sort who generally choose ND, or succeed once they get here.

I think it's mostly because choosing ND involves substantial sacrifice for lots of recruits. We genuinely offer the best mix of academics, football, and moral development in the nation, and most of the kids (and parents) we recruit seem to know it. If we get the kid on campus and he feels the "magic", it's almost always a done deal; head and heart are in agreement, and we get his verbal.

But for those kids who don't hear the Echoes when they walk through our stadium, it's much harder. They know ND is the best long-term decision for them, but it also means: (1) hard work; (2) home-sickness; (3) terrible weather; (4) a weak social scene; (5) chastity (relative to other options); and (6) a general lack of special treatment afforded to athletes elsewhere.

They compare that with a large state school that's: (1) close to home; (2) in a pleasant climate; (3) with an awesome social scene; (4) with legions of willing young women; (5) athlete dorms, extravagant facilities, etc.; and (6) few expectations beyond practice and workouts. Is it any surprise a lot of these kids choose Door #2? They're still boys, after all.

ND generally is the best choice, and we shouldn't be ashamed for saying so, but doing what's truly in one's own best interests frequently involves sacrifice and delayed gratification. Most adults lack the discipline to make such decisions on a regular basis, let alone 17-year-old kids.

 

[tussin]

UNC's degree value is surprisingly poor compared to other BCS schools (56/71). Their GSR figures are decent, but that still puts them in the bottom 1/3 for African American ROI. And in light of their recent academic fraud, I question the quality of education most of their athletes are receiving. But it probably doesn't matter much here. As others have noted, (1) parents aren't often well-informed on this type of data; and (2) for some, any college is a big deal. UNC does have a solid academic reputation, particularly among locals, but there it is.

Regarding parents "selfishly" pushing their kids to stay close instead of attending an elite university, it probably comes down to cultural values. Remember when Bill Cosby got crucified for suggesting that black parents are doing their kids a disservice when they give them names like "Shaniqua" and "D'Squarius"? He made that argument as a man who holds bourgeois values and believes in the importance of upward social mobility. The people he was criticizing value racial solidarity over those things, so it mostly fell on deaf ears. It's likely that the Hoods' values are different from ours.



I disagree. The kids who look at college as a mere stepping stone to the NFL are not the sort who generally choose ND, or succeed if they do choose ND.

I think it's mostly because choosing ND involves substantial sacrifice for lots of recruits. We genuinely offer the best mix of academics, football, and moral development in the nation, and most of the kids (and parents) we recruit seem to know it. If we get the kid on campus and he feels the "magic", it's almost always a done deal; head and heart are in agreement, and we get his verbal.

But for those kids who don't hear the Echoes when they walk through our stadium, it's much harder. They know ND is the best long-term decision for them, but it also means: (1) hard work; (2) home-sickness; (3) terrible weather; (4) a weak social scene; (5) chastity (probably); and (6) a general lack of special treatment afforded to athletes elsewhere.

They compare that with a large state school that's: (1) close to home; (2) in a pleasant climate; (3) with an awesome social scene; (4) with legions of willing young women; (5) athlete dorms, extravagant facilities, etc.; and (6) few expectations beyond practice and workouts. Is it any surprise a lot of these kids choose Door #2? They're still boys, after all.

ND generally is the best choice, and we shouldn't be ashamed for saying so, but doing what's truly in one's own best interests frequently involves sacrifice and delayed gratification. Most adults lack the discipline to make such decisions on a regular basis, let alone 17-year-old kids.

I generally agree with everything you are saying. But I find it hard to believe that ND football players are struggling to find a good time and/or attractive girls. I went to a smaller liberal arts school (albeit one that is known for beautiful girls) and had the time of my life while not playing a sport.

 

[Luckylucci]

I have a co-worker who is a UNC grad and speaks very highly of the education he received while their. However, this is a classic case where the football program and school are completely disconnected. UNC is in the top tier of shady programs for last several years with fake courses for players

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I generally agree with everything you are saying. But I find it hard to believe that ND football players are struggling to find a good time and/or attractive girls. I went to a smaller liberal arts school (albeit one that is known for beautiful girls) and had the time of my life while not playing a sport.

It's hard to describe. ND's just different, and not always in a good way. Sex-segregated dorms and parietals give ND a "summer camp" feel when it comes to gender relations. Unless you've got the confidence of an Alpha male, dating at ND can be very difficult/ awkward.

That said, SMC girls tend to be better looking, and they seem to seek our football players out. But it's night and day compared to what they'd experience at a school like FSU or Ole Miss. Those guys are, as they say, "drowning in it".

 

[tussin]

It's hard to describe. ND's just different, and not always in a good way. Sex-segregated dorms and parietals give ND a "summer camp" feel when it comes to gender relations. Unless you've got the confidence of an Alpha male, dating at ND can be very difficult/ awkward.

That said, SMC girls tend to be better looking, and they seem to seek our football players out. But it's night and day compared to what they'd experience at a school like FSU or Ole Miss. Those guys are, as they say, "drowning in it".

Oh yeah, I'm sure that is true.

I also didn't consider the segregated dorms, which I could completely understand being awkward. I was lucky to live on gender-mixed halls for my first 3 years.

 

[clashmore_jon]

2. Are you trying to say ND parents steered because they wanted to see their kid on TV rather than get a world class education? ND does provide a world class education and for football players ND has a higher graduation rate than Harvard per the NCAA.

I've studied at ND and at a top rung Ivy. ND really doesn't hold a candle to say Harvard/Yale on a global scale. ND should academically be compared to "national level" schools like Rice, Duke, Vandy...maybe if you stretch it Northwestern.

Harvard and Yale truly are global institutions, and something like 50% of Yale undergrads are international students. Notre Dame just doesn't compare.

That said, i wouldnt fault a player for turning down a free ride at ND vs paying full tuition at an ivy.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I've studied at ND and at a top rung Ivy. ND really doesn't hold a candle to say Harvard/Yale on a global scale. ND should academically be compared to "national level" schools like Rice, Duke, Vandy...maybe if you stretch it Northwestern.

Harvard and Yale truly are global institutions, and something like 50% of Yale undergrads are international students. Notre Dame just doesn't compare.

That said, i wouldnt fault a player for turning down a free ride at ND vs paying full tuition at an ivy.

You better duck.