George Zimmerman Trial

[Bluto]

Any articles that show discrepancies between Blacks and Hispanics?

Not that I'm aware of. That being said, the last time I looked into it in California the percentage of Hispanics that make up the prison population is close to the percentage of total population of Hispanics State wide and that is definitely not the case for Blacks. They have a rediculously high percentage of the total prison population as compared to the total State population.

This link has a graph that shows a comparison between Whites, Hispanics and Blacks:
The Sentencing Project News - Racial Disparity

Here's a study that answers your question:
http://www.sentencingproject.org/doc/publications/rd_stateratesofincbyraceandethnicity.pdf

 

[drayer54]

Not that I'm aware of. That being said, the last time I looked into it in California the percentage of Hispanics that make up the prison population is close to the percentage of total population of Hispanics State wide and that is definitely not the case for Blacks. They have a rediculously high percentage of the total prison population as compared to the total State population.

This link has a graph that shows a comparison between Whites, Hispanics and Blacks:
The Sentencing Project News - Racial Disparity

Now that's a whole new can of worms....

 

[Bogtrotter07]

How do you guys know any of this?

In my mind these stupid utterances haven't changed for your fantasy world.

Every expert, and I mean truly unbiased expert thinks the jury got it wrong and that the results would have been different elsewhere.

Most think a civil rights trial is unlikely.

Most think a civil suit is unlikely. Apparently, Zimmerman can use the stand your ground law to force a hearing that would make a civil trial an almost impossibility to win. After declining a stand your ground hearing he can now request one. (If this is true this is a horrible, and unconstitutional law.)

Zimmerman will never successfully win a case in civil court against anyone. He is done, (with the possibility of trying to recover some specific costs for defense from the State of Florida.)

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Now that's a whole new can of worms....

Not if you are not a racist.

 

[irishpat183]

How do you guys know any of this?

In my mind these stupid utterances haven't changed for your fantasy world.

Every expert, and I mean truly unbiased expert thinks the jury got it wrong and that the results would have been different elsewhere.

Most think a civil rights trial is unlikely.

Most think a civil suit is unlikely. Apparently, Zimmerman can use the stand your ground law to force a hearing that would make a civil trial an almost impossibility to win. After declining a stand your ground hearing he can now request one. (If this is true this is a horrible, and unconstitutional law.)

Zimmerman will never successfully win a case in civil court against anyone. He is done, (with the possibility of trying to recover some specific costs for defense from the State of Florida.)

Name these "experts"?? You're outta your mind. What hack experts are you listening too??!! Nobody disagrees that bad decisions were made that night , but other than race baiting civil rights lawyers, I haven't heard anyone say "the jury got it wrong"...

You're kidding, right? Even Al Sharpton said he respected the jury's decision.

 

[jmurphy75]

How do you guys know any of this?

In my mind these stupid utterances haven't changed for your fantasy world.

Every expert, and I mean truly unbiased expert thinks the jury got it wrong and that the results would have been different elsewhere.

Most think a civil rights trial is unlikely.

Most think a civil suit is unlikely. Apparently, Zimmerman can use the stand your ground law to force a hearing that would make a civil trial an almost impossibility to win. After declining a stand your ground hearing he can now request one. (If this is true this is a horrible, and unconstitutional law.)

Zimmerman will never successfully win a case in civil court against anyone. He is done, (with the possibility of trying to recover some specific costs for defense from the State of Florida.)

What expert would that be? Every and I mean every expert I've seen and read this morning is saying that GZ should never have been brought to trial there just wasn't enough evidence. I'm sure that some are saying it for a media spin, but not all.

 

[irishpat183]

Most think a civil suit is "unlikely"??


Bogs...forgive me....but what the **** are you smoking?

 

[irishpat183]

Of course, this is the same Bogs that WIFFED on the guilty verdict on the first place (among other IE members)....

Those "experts" you keep referring too haven't had the best track record, now have they?

 

[jmurphy75]

I really want to know why this keeps coming back to a race thing? What are we exactly talking about? From what I can take we're talking about racism against blacks from Hispanics?

 

[IrishLax]

How do you guys know any of this?

In my mind these stupid utterances haven't changed for your fantasy world.

Every expert, and I mean truly unbiased expert thinks the jury got it wrong and that the results would have been different elsewhere.

Most think a civil rights trial is unlikely.

Most think a civil suit is unlikely. Apparently, Zimmerman can use the stand your ground law to force a hearing that would make a civil trial an almost impossibility to win. After declining a stand your ground hearing he can now request one. (If this is true this is a horrible, and unconstitutional law.)

Zimmerman will never successfully win a case in civil court against anyone. He is done, (with the possibility of trying to recover some specific costs for defense from the State of Florida.)

Come on Bogs... this is like the #189047530563 thing you've said in this thread that is just factually wrong. I'm not talking about differing opinions on both sides... it's perfectly acceptable for everyone to have their own opinion and disagree. I'm talking about presenting things as "fact" that aren't true.

First, almost every single legal expert on every channel has acknowledged for a long time that it would be hard to get a conviction and explained why. There have been articles from many days ago explaining exactly why the prosecution had an uphill legal battle and was unlikely to convict. After the verdict, I watched an hour or so of CNN and almost every expert I've seen has talked about why it was very hard for the jury to convict on any of the counts.

Second, you only need a preponderance of evidence for a civil suit versus "beyond a reasonable doubt"... which allows a jury to choose the "most likely" or "most plausible" choice instead of the state having to PROVE beyond doubt that the accused is guilty. This is a big difference, and effectively means Zimmerman could lose the civil case if the jury simply finds his version of events implausible and an alternative involving manslaughter more plausible.

Third, Zimmerman has a very real case against a lot of people. There were some early reporting errors that were egregious and all he has to show is how the public outcry against him because of ABC, NBC, etc. is negatively affecting his life. Proving the effect should be as easy as a Twitter search last night and compiling a couple dozen death threats. And the error will be as easy as showing NBC selectively editing sound bytes to paint him as a racist for ratings.

 

[gkIrish]

A defamation case against ABC or NBC will never get to court. They will definitely settle before it comes to that. Kind of sad and ironic that Zimmerman could end up being a millionaire when all is said and done but may not survive to use the money if some of these death threat are real.

 

[IrishLax]

A defamation case against ABC or NBC will never get to court. They will definitely settle before it comes to that. Kind of sad and ironic that Zimmerman could end up being a millionaire when all is said and done but may not survive to use the money if some of these death threat are real.

I kept trying to post this but got internal server error. He will likely settle with a lot of people for big $$.

And then he will turn around and probably settle with the Martin family for most or all of it (or lose in court). The end result is that the irresponsible media outlets who leveraged the death of Trayvon Martin for personal financial gain will end up effectively compensating the family for hijacking the tragedy and trying to whip up a race war.

 

[DomerInHappyValley]

How do you guys know any of this?

In my mind these stupid utterances haven't changed for your fantasy world.

Every expert, and I mean truly unbiased expert thinks the jury got it wrong and that the results would have been different elsewhere.

Most think a civil rights trial is unlikely.

Most think a civil suit is unlikely. Apparently, Zimmerman can use the stand your ground law to force a hearing that would make a civil trial an almost impossibility to win. After declining a stand your ground hearing he can now request one. (If this is true this is a horrible, and unconstitutional law.)

Zimmerman will never successfully win a case in civil court against anyone. He is done, (with the possibility of trying to recover some specific costs for defense from the State of Florida.)

Bogs he doesn't need SYG. He claimed the right to self defense. That should put the kibosh on any civil case.

You don't think NBC is gonna pay out after that hack job they did with the doctored 911 call?
CNN for claiming he said f'ing c**n?
ABC news for their reporter who claimed he shot Martin because he was black?
The NYT was busted doctoring the 911 tapes.

And you know there are publishers lining up to make him a book deal.
Crappy situation all the way around.
But it is what is.

 

[gkIrish]

I kept trying to post this but got internal server error. He will likely settle with a lot of people for big $$.

And then he will turn around and probably settle with the Martin family for most or all of it (or lose in court). The end result is that the irresponsible media outlets who leveraged the death of Trayvon Martin for personal financial gain will end up effectively compensating the family for hijacking the tragedy and trying to whip up a race war.

Stealing this thought for my Facebook wall.

The most guilty party (media) compensates the least guilty party (Martin's family). #Justice?

 

[EddytoNow]

How do you guys know any of this?

In my mind these stupid utterances haven't changed for your fantasy world.

Every expert, and I mean truly unbiased expert thinks the jury got it wrong and that the results would have been different elsewhere.

Most think a civil rights trial is unlikely.

Most think a civil suit is unlikely. Apparently, Zimmerman can use the stand your ground law to force a hearing that would make a civil trial an almost impossibility to win. After declining a stand your ground hearing he can now request one. (If this is true this is a horrible, and unconstitutional law.)

Zimmerman will never successfully win a case in civil court against anyone. He is done, (with the possibility of trying to recover some specific costs for defense from the State of Florida.)

This case was political from the beginning. Politicians from both major parties, fearing an electoral backlash in an election year, caved-in to political pressure and once again showed they had no backbone. The physical evidence supported Zimmerman's account from the beginning. The prosecutors could only offer "what ifs", "could of happened this way", etc. None of the physical evidence supported the prosecution's case. The politicians and the media encouraged a racist reaction from the beginning. GZ's life can never be the same, not because he defended himself against a physical attack, but because the media and politicians created an "event" to suit their own greedy, inflammatory needs. All the evidence suggests that GZ was a citizen concerned about a rash of burglaries in his neighborhood. The witnesses told story after story of how GZ had gone out of his way to help them. Doesn't sound like some crazed racist to me, but that didn't fit what the media needed to boost their ratings and their on-air egos. The major issue with this case was a combination of self-serving politicians, self-promoting media sensations, and an underlying distrust of the legal system by the black community. The black community has many legitimate concerns about obtaining justice, but GZ is not the cause of their concern. The conflict that resulted in TM death was the result of a pattern of burglaries that left many in the neighborhood feeling unsafe. It was not the result of a crazed white man out to kill an innocent black youth.

The death of TM was tragic, but not racist. The racist element was introduced after the fact by those with the most to gain either politically, financially, or personally.

 

[ShawneeIrish]

Stealing this thought for my Facebook wall.

The most guilty party (media) compensates the least guilty party (Martin's family). #Justice?

Yes, the media. It's always that damn liberal media. I mean clearly Rachel Maddow, Al Sharpton, Anderson Cooper, George Stephanopoulus, or what ever media figure you would like to single out is the most guilty party. Clearly it is the media's fault that a teenager who went to by skittles and tea at the store and had the audacity to walk home through a gated neighborhood in a hoodie came home in a body bag.

 

[ShawneeIrish]

This case was political from the beginning. Politicians from both major parties, fearing an electoral backlash in an election year, caved-in to political pressure and once again showed they had no backbone. The physical evidence supported Zimmerman's account from the beginning. The prosecutors could only offer "what ifs", "could of happened this way", etc. None of the physical evidence supported the prosecution's case. The politicians and the media encouraged a racist reaction from the beginning. GZ's life can never be the same, not because he defended himself against a physical attack, but because the media and politicians created an "event" to suit their own greedy, inflammatory needs. All the evidence suggests that GZ was a citizen concerned about a rash of burglaries in his neighborhood. The witnesses told story after story of how GZ had gone out of his way to help them. Doesn't sound like some crazed racist to me, but that didn't fit what the media needed to boost their ratings and their on-air egos. The major issue with this case was a combination of self-serving politicians, self-promoting media sensations, and an underlying distrust of the legal system by the black community. The black community has many legitimate concerns about obtaining justice, but GZ is not the cause of their concern. The conflict that resulted in TM death was the result of a pattern of burglaries that left many in the neighborhood feeling unsafe. It was not the result of a crazed white man out to kill an innocent black youth.

The death of TM was tragic, but not racist. The racist element was introduced after the fact by those with the most to gain either politically, financially, or personally.

I wonder if George Zimmerman would rather trade places with Trayvon Martin or his family? Please do not have a pity party or glorify Zimmerman. People can agree with the verdict, but there is no reason to hold Zimmerman up as an exemplary neighbor defending his community. The death of Trayvon Martin was not caused by those burglaries it was caused by Zimmerman's paranoid reaction to them. Also since when have neighborhood watch groups been involved this kind of lunacy? My neighborhood always had "neighborhood watch" signs, from my understanding the extent of the "neighborhood watch" was if people saw something they would notify police (even these were usually the noisy, suspicious people) not that they would follow people around on their own like a wannabe cop.

 

[gkIrish]

Yes, the media. It's always that damn liberal media. I mean clearly Rachel Maddow, Al Sharpton, Anderson Cooper, George Stephanopoulus, or what ever media figure you would like to single out is the most guilty party. Clearly it is the media's fault that a teenager who went to by skittles and tea at the store and had the audacity to walk home through a gated neighborhood in a hoodie came home in a body bag.

It's not always the media. But in this case, they dropped the ball. So many people are in an uproar because of the media's false portrayal of the situation. If it happened the way the media initially said it happened, GZ would be guilty of murder and hate crimes.

 

[ShawneeIrish]

It's not always the media. But in this case, they dropped the ball. So many people are in an uproar because of the media's false portrayal of the situation. If it happened the way the media initially said it happened, GZ would be guilty of murder and hate crimes.

I am not saying the media did a great job (they rarely do cough cough WMDs in Iraq) but it is not true to say they are the most guilty party.

 

[gkIrish]

I am not saying the media did a great job (they rarely do cough cough WMDs in Iraq) but it is not true to say they are the most guilty party.

In my opinion, they acted in the least reasonable way of anyone involved.

 

[irishog77]

I wonder if George Zimmerman would rather trade places with Trayvon Martin or his family? Please do not have a pity party or glorify Zimmerman. People can agree with the verdict, but there is no reason to hold Zimmerman up as an exemplary neighbor defending his community. The death of Trayvon Martin was not caused by those burglaries it was caused by Zimmerman's paranoid reaction to them. Also since when have neighborhood watch groups been involved this kind of lunacy? My neighborhood always had "neighborhood watch" signs, from my understanding the extent of the "neighborhood watch" was if people saw something they would notify police (even these were usually the noisy, suspicious people) not that they would follow people around on their own like a wannabe cop.

Not sure what type of lunacy you're referring to, but many neighborhoods do have actual, legitimate "watches." Many citizens in and around their neighborhoods organize teams, captains, schedules, shifts, etc. These occur in "bad" and "good" neighborhoods alike. Concerned homeowners and citizens do this to protect themselves, their neighbors (what a novel concept), their cars, their homes, their lawns, etc. Sure, there are a lot of neighborhoods that probably do have "just a sign" posted somewhere...but many legitimately "watch" to help secure themselves, their families, their neighbors, and their property.

 

[ShawneeIrish]

Not sure what type of lunacy you're referring to, but many neighborhoods do have actual, legitimate "watches." Many citizens in and around their neighborhoods organize teams, captains, schedules, shifts, etc. These occur in "bad" and "good" neighborhoods alike. Concerned homeowners and citizens do this to protect themselves, their neighbors (what a novel concept), their cars, their homes, their lawns, etc. Sure, there are a lot of neighborhoods that probably do have "just a sign" posted somewhere...but many legitimately "watch" to help secure themselves, their families, their neighbors, and their property.

This is the lunacy I am referring too. This is the job of police. I also do not understand why people are so afraid. Yes, crimes occur, but not to the extent that it is necessary to organize cadres of citizens to protect their neighborhoods. It is bad enough people are willing to surrender their rights to the government because of their irrational fears, I don't want these paranoid wannabe cops out patrolling the streets with guns looking to thwart crime like a poor man's Batman.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

This is the lunacy I am referring too. This is the job of police. I also do not understand why people are so afraid. Yes, crimes occur, but not to the extent that it is necessary to organize cadres of citizens to protect their neighborhoods. It is bad enough people are willing to surrender their rights to the government because of their irrational fears, I don't want these paranoid wannabe cops out patrolling the streets with guns looking to thwart crime like a poor man's Batman.

It's their right to organize these watches; it's you who is relying on the government to defend you and your property. It's people like you who then cry foul when the police don't respond fast enough.

 

[irishog77]

This is the lunacy I am referring too. This is the job of police. I also do not understand why people are so afraid. Yes, crimes occur, but not to the extent that it is necessary to organize cadres of citizens to protect their neighborhoods. It is bad enough people are willing to surrender their rights to the government because of their irrational fears, I don't want these paranoid wannabe cops out patrolling the streets with guns looking to thwart crime like a poor man's Batman.

Well, I guess I just don't see people who live close to one another that unite to help protect themselves and their property as lunatics.

And also, it's certainly debatable that GZ is a "paranoid wannabe cop out patrolling the streets with a gun." If you want to believe that, fine. What isn't debatable though is that GZ is the one and only representation of a citizen involved in a neighborhood watch. I'd be willing to bet that almost all involved in neighborhood watches are pretty good, decent people. Your disdain for GZ leads you to believe that neighborhood watches are somehow inherently bad? That'd be like me believing virtually all black teenage boys are bad because I once saw one out in my neighborhood trespassing, loitering, and vandalizing.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Most think a civil suit is "unlikely"??


Bogs...forgive me....but what the **** are you smoking?

I don't smoke. I think that you mean to say civil rights. They all seem to agree across multiple networks, in print and on the internet that establishing Zimmerman as having a history of showing the kind of prejudice behavior he would have to, is highly unlucky. People already said he was a nice guy. Normal guy. The feds are not going to be able to establish what they need to, to get going with this. Hell, in the state trial none of the jurors found a depraved mind. Nope. **** out of luck.

Some peoples source of candy is turned off on this!

 

[Bluto]

I really want to know why this keeps coming back to a race thing? What are we exactly talking about? From what I can take we're talking about racism against blacks from Hispanics?

Why not? Race dynamics involve more than black and white. Racial animosity between Hispanics and Blacks in California at least is well documented. That being said Hispanics have nowhere near the level of power and influence to inflict and codify institutionalized forms of racism on the level that whites do. The situation in Florida does show to me that once again a supposedly well intentioned law is going to have a disproportionately negative and possibly deadly impact on Black males in much the same way that the wave of mandatory sentencing that resulted from the war on drugs.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Of course, this is the same Bogs that WIFFED on the guilty verdict on the first place (among other IE members)....

Those "experts" you keep referring too haven't had the best track record, now have they?

Sticks and stones!


As I quoted above, three networks and all three people I have talked to privately UNANAMOUSLY feel that the not guilty verdict was the wrong outcome; that there was no justification of self defense, there was evidence of a depraved mind, and that in other venues the verdict would have been different. This includes Jeffery Toobin from CNN, who was very clear in his pronouncement. Toobin has the bona fides, from President of the Harvard Law Review to Assistant US ATTY, to state said claim.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Why not? Race dynamics involve more than black and white. Racial animosity between Hispanics and Blacks in California at least is well documented. That being said Hispanics have nowhere near the level of power and influence to inflict and codify institutionalized forms of racism on the level that whites do. The situation in Florida does show to me that once again a supposedly well intentioned law is going to have a disproportionaly negative and possibly deadly impact on Black males in much the same way that the wave of manditory sentencing that resulted from the war on drugs.

How about race as inferior to class? As in a class thing. Today, as evidence that this existed, Martin supporters pointed out all the people that insisted there would be violence over the verdict. They were more wrong and were racist and "class"ist. And they pointed out how morally wrong that was.

 

[GoIrish41]

I don't think the prosecution did a good job at presenting the case. Better lawyers = different outcome, IMO.

 

[Bluto]

A defamation case against ABC or NBC will never get to court. They will definitely settle before it comes to that. Kind of sad and ironic that Zimmerman could end up being a millionaire when all is said and done but may not survive to use the money if some of these death threat are real.

Or he will end up paying the Martins all his millions if he loses the civil case.