'14 NY DT Thomas Holley (Florida Verbal)

[STLDomer]

I know some have freaked out about us not pushing very hard for Holley but I don't think it really would matter, doesn't seem like the type of kid that would care about the recruiting game, get him on campus and we should be good to go.

 

[ND NYC]

Ishaq needs to put in some work here, and "set the table" for Diaco and the rest of the stone-cold-recruiting-killers at the Gug.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Can't decide my level of "want" for Holley. Our recent DL recruits from the northeast haven't turned out very well. Maybe there's something to the concerns over poor competition.

 

[dwshade]

Correct, my understanding was 2 DE and 1NG with OLB/DE. Now Holley is the perfect DE/DT swing like Hayes is and Vanderdoes was supposed to be.

Correct. Holley can play 3-4 DE or move inside in a 4-3.

 

[dwshade]

2 NT and 3 DE would suit my fancy quite nicely.

One true NT. Virtually impossible to get 2. Rare breed.

 

[Luckylucci]

One thing I really like about Holley is he openly mentions that he knows he needs to get coached up a lot. That shows a level of humility that I think takes to constructive criticism and coaching well.

 

[md_bennett]

If he didn't show that humility I would worry. He has only been playing for a year right?

 

[ND NYC]

Can't decide my level of "want" for Holley. Our recent DL recruits from the northeast haven't turned out very well. Maybe there's something to the concerns over poor competition.

i feel you on this...but i think the universe of "ND DL from Northeast" (Ishaq, Jarron Jones, Stockton) is too small a sampling IMO to indicate a decided trend...and truth be told, the jury is still out on Ishaq (2 yrs left) and especially on Jarron (4 yrs left).

i think Hayes is going to surprise us all. and i do like Holley upside.

that all being said, gun to my head, if given the choice i take the DL's from down south 9 times out of 10.

 

[Luckylucci]

Something like that, not very long.

 

[NDWorld247]

Below are some links from Holley's participation at the NJ/NY NFTC where he won DL MVP. I don't think they've already been posted. Apologies if they have.

NJ/NY NFTC: Thomas Holley interview - ESPN Video - ESPN

NJ/NY NFTC: Thomas Holley highlights - YouTube

Holley seems like an intelligent kid that's approaching the recruiting process the right way. This one will come down to his official visits. I love that this staff doesn't 'smother' kids like some schools, especially when it's not needed (e.g. Holley).

 

[Whiskeyjack]

i feel you on this...but i think the universe of "ND DL from Northeast" (Ishaq, Jarron Jones, Stockton) is too small a sampling IMO to indicate a decided trend...and truth be told, the jury is still out on Ishaq (2 yrs left) and especially on Jarron (4 yrs left).

i think Hayes is going to surprise us all. and i do like Holley upside.

that all being said, gun to my head, if given the choice i take the DL's from down south 9 times out of 10.

Those were all borderline 5 guys, though! Stockton is a definite bust, Ishaq has had a slow start, and early reports on Jones aren't positive; he wasn't even in the 2-deep during Spring Camp. Jones himself has stated that the poor competition he faced in high school has made the transition difficult.

We recruit the northeast very well, and I certainly don't want to stop. But I'd be lying if I said the low quality of competition doesn't give me 2nd thoughts about highly rated prospects in the region.

 

[NYIrish14]

Can't decide my level of "want" for Holley. Our recent DL recruits from the northeast haven't turned out very well. Maybe there's something to the concerns over poor competition.

To be honest I always questioned both Ishaq's and Jarron's effort. I didn't think either one played with a great amount of effort but they were definitely physical specimens with a ton of athleticism. Ishaq's development was also slowed down by having to play a new position.

However, I don't see that being a problem for Hayes or Holley. Both play to the whistle and I think they will have a much easier transition to the college game.

Let me also mention that two of Florida's top NFL defensive line prospects, Shariff Floyd and Dominique Easley are Northeast natives. Easley is from Staten Island.

 

[Ricochet]

The thing about Ishaq just through observation is he's had his moments where he's been quite awesome but more often than not he's been average at best but when one takes a closer look he thrives when ND is playing in a 4-3 defense which allows him to play DE.

He's not a 3-4 DE or 3-4 OLB(CAT) nor is he a 4-3 OLB he's proven by his play that he's an out and out 4-3 DE and because of that it is going to limit his PT.

If ND continues to have a more or less 50/50 split between the 3-4 and the 4-3 then the 3-4 NT/NG and the one of the 4-3 DE's could become a specialized position because as we know the 3-4 CAT LB will shift to a DE in the 4-3 Defense and the 3-4 DE can slide inside to play DT

 

[Irishnuke]

To be honest I always questioned both Ishaq's and Jarron's effort. I didn't think either one played with a great amount of effort but they were definitely physical specimens with a ton of athleticism. Ishaq's development was also slowed down by having to play a new position.

However, I don't see that being a problem for Hayes or Holley. Both play to the whistle and I think they will have a much easier transition to the college game.

Let me also mention that two of Florida's top NFL defensive line prospects, Shariff Floyd and Dominique Easley are Northeast natives. Easley is from Staten Island.

Uh, when has Jarron played? Did I miss something?

 

[NYIrish14]

Uh, when has Jarron played? Did I miss something?

I am talking about HS highlights. Ishaq looked good in HS but doesn't seem to play with that same effort now. Although he has improved.

 

[pkt77242]

I am talking about HS highlights. Ishaq looked good in HS but doesn't seem to play with that same effort now. Although he has improved.

With Ishaq I don't think it is effort, I believe that he is thinking too much. Jarron Jones seems to be not giving as much effort (see the spring game) but Ishaq is giving the effort it just hasn't clicked mentally for him (though he looked better in the spring game so I have hope for this year).

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Can't decide my level of "want" for Holley. Our recent DL recruits from the northeast haven't turned out very well. Maybe there's something to the concerns over poor competition.

????

Ishaq was solid last year. He isn't as natural a linebacker;

JJ has some growing up to do, and I understand about high school competition. But it has been years since upstate NY near Rochester has produced anything!

JH and TH appear to be fine;

What about AT, I don't see any reason why he may be suspect;

Too many Don Bosco kids to make a blanket statement about kids from the Northeast;

Other schools have pulled a half-dozen around us that have turned out well.

No one says ND has not faired well on the D-line from the Northeast; and that there is a certain appeal to players from the southeast. But the other stereotype to consider for the players from the southeast is classroom performance . . .

 

[koonja]

My jury is no longer out on Ishaq. IMO, he was the best player in this year's blue gold game. I'd bet the house he has a monster year.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

My jury is no longer out on Ishaq. IMO, he was the best player in this year's blue gold game. I'd bet the house he has a monster year.

I would agree with this! Reps!

 

[NDWorld247]

My jury is no longer out on Ishaq. IMO, he was the best player in this year's blue gold game. I'd bet the house he has a monster year.

Amen. He's going to be a BIG reason why we have the best DL in the country 3 seasons in a row (2012-2014...Tuitt isn't going anywhere).

 

[rtrn2glory]

My jury is no longer out on Ishaq. IMO, he was the best player in this year's blue gold game. I'd bet the house he has a monster year.

keep in mind he's playing behind Prince so if he gets on the field it would most likely be on obvious passing downs where he can turn it loose and rush the passer

 

[ThePiombino]

My jury is no longer out on Ishaq. IMO, he was the best player in this year's blue gold game. I'd bet the house he has a monster year.

I hope you're right, but betting the house based on a scrimmage? I dunno, dude. I'm gonna need to see him put it together for more than a play or two here and there when it counts.

 

[koonja]

I hope you're right, but betting the house based on a scrimmage? I dunno, dude. I'm gonna need to see him put it together for more than a play or two here and there when it counts.

I understand what you're saying, but this is a de/olb were talking about. His performance in the scrimmage wasn't junior Jabbie getting a couple of nice blocks and looking like a Ballar. Ishaq was more powerful than everyone he went against in the scrimmage. It's not luck IMO when you play that close to the ball, especially on defense. He was very close to destroying a lot of offensive plays in the scrimmage. If it were a qb, rb, I wouldn't put much stock into it. It's very easy for a bad qb to look good given a small sample, or a good qb to look bad. But when you're rushing the passer, it's man on man and ishaq was a monster IMO.

 

[Luckylucci]

While I think Ishaq is improving, in order for him to have a monster year he'll need to be on the field at least 75% of the time you would think. And as of now Shembo will be playing a majority of the snaps. He's an animal and ready to play every snap. Ishaq's time will come but probably not until next year.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

While I think Ishaq is improving, in order for him to have a monster year he'll need to be on the field at least 75% of the time you would think. And as of now Shembo will be playing a majority of the snaps. He's an animal and ready to play every snap. Ishaq's time will come but probably not until next year.

That is why Kelly is playing Ishaq at more than one position. He was taking about getting the kid fifty snaps at least.

 

[Luckylucci]

It seemed that way but Sampson and Prister from II both were told by Elston that Ishaq playing DE for that period of time was more about getting him work during practice and because Tuitt was out. They both said that the staff doesn't intend to play him there much during the season. Now could he come in and play the DE in the 4-3 opposite Shembo sure, thats very likely but in order for him to have a monster year he'd have to beat out Shembo and thats not happening. Unless our idea of breakout seasons are different. Breakout for me would be in the range of 8+ sacks with 12+ TFL.

 

[koonja]

I think Ishaq will be better than Shembo this year.

 

[NDWorld247]

It seemed that way but Sampson and Prister from II both were told by Elston that Ishaq playing DE for that period of time was more about getting him work during practice and because Tuitt was out. They both said that the staff doesn't intend to play him there much during the season. Now could he come in and play the DE in the 4-3 opposite Shembo sure, thats very likely but in order for him to have a monster year he'd have to beat out Shembo and thats not happening. Unless our idea of breakout seasons are different. Breakout for me would be in the range of 8+ sacks with 12+ TFL.

http://www.uhnd.com/articles/football/brian-kelly-talks-transfers-spring-progress-13464/: "Ishaq Williams has been getting some reps at defensive end. He will cross train at CAT and DE which will get him 15-20 more reps. At 260 lbs, Williams probably won’t be playing DE on first down or obvious running situations, but as a pass rusher on 3rd down his quickness could be a real asset." - From BK.

If there are 64 plays a game for the defense (2012 average), and Ishaq was going to get 16 (25%) of those at CAT and 20 at DE, those 36/game are about 56% of total snaps (465 for the season). I'm less worried about what those snaps will equate to re: sacks, TFL, etc, and more worried about his impact on the game, which of course includes sacks and TFL, but also QB pressure, batted balls, etc. He will be a "monster" in how he disrupts the offense relative to his opportunities.

I think Ishaq will be better than Shembo this year.

You lost me here.

 

[Luckylucci]

The reps he was speaking about were practice reps not game reps. Things could change but Sampson and Prister addressed this specifically with Elston. DE during the spring had no bodies so it was an opportunity to get him work. Saying he'll play DE you have to consider what formation. We play 4-3 and 3-4 roughly 50-50. So if there are 64 defensive plays a game its 32/32. I think 30% of CAT snaps with gracious, that 10 snaps and 50% of 4-3 DE snaps is gracious, thats another 16. 26 snaps a game isn't enough to have a monster year unless he becomes the best pass rusher Notre Dame has ever seen.

 

[AdmiralBackhand]

Bring it back to Holley, fellas.