Manziel and aTm fitting right into the SEC

[DomerInHappyValley]

Y! SPORTS

 

[Irishnuke]

Just saw this. I can't say I'm shocked by this though, it is the SEC.

 

[Grahambo]

I don't see a problem with it.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I don't see a problem with it.

I think it raises some interesting questions. How can you ensure that he is doing the course work? I think it depends on the course, but don't the exams for online classes happen online?

 

[Irish Houstonian]

I can understand his argument though -- the dude is such a celeb around campus that nobody's going to learn much with all the buzz in class every day.

 

[TDHeysus]

the only thing that is surprising is that its a football player, but as far as online courses...welcome to the future (now) of education.

Dont be surprised in the very near future to see a college freshman taking all online courses, who took all online courses throughout high school.

In the school district I work for, there is an online school...if students can demonstrate that they are mature enough to complete the courses, they qualify. They also take students from outside any district boundaries. So there are students as far away as San Diego in the online school.

 

[DomerInHappyValley]

I think it raises some interesting questions. How can you ensure that he is doing the course work? I think it depends on the course, but don't the exams for online classes happen online?

All of them is what causes me to raise some eyebrows and only being on campus outside the football complex 1 time a month.
And that 1 time is probably for a proctored exam.

 

[PANDFAN]

I don't see a problem with it.

online courses are generally done for people who work, have a family or don't have a university close to them or have their specific study

what's his reasoning??? i mean he isn't technically doing anything wrong w/ current laws but it's f'd up

I think it raises some interesting questions. How can you ensure that he is doing the course work? I think it depends on the course, but don't the exams for online classes happen online?

sure raises some suspicion....just wait....this will continue to build into more of a story

 

[WakeUpEchoes]

I think it's bullcrap.

 

[Grahambo]

I think it raises some interesting questions. How can you ensure that he is doing the course work? I think it depends on the course, but don't the exams for online classes happen online?

It depends. Some online schools allow you to take tests online while others have you attend somewhere and have the test proctored. From my experience with online school, which is extensive, grades are heavily weighed using participation and reports as the heavy ground work for a grade.

online courses are generally done for people who work, have a family or don't have a university close to them or have their specific study

what's his reasoning??? i mean he isn't technically doing anything wrong w/ current laws but it's f'd up


sure raises some suspicion....just wait....this will continue to build into more of a story

He's not doing anything illegal so other then it just being a bit unusual, nothing to see here IMO. While I understand the negative connotation associated with online schooling, it really isn't that bad. I do it because I have a family and a full-time federal job and I spent 5 years in the Marines after high school so I didn't give myself a chance to attend a university. This was my only chance at supporting my family and obtaining a college degree.

 

[Ndaccountant]

It depends. Some online schools allow you to take tests online while others have you attend somewhere and have the test proctored. From my experience with online school, which is extensive, grades are heavily weighed using participation and reports as the heavy ground work for a grade.



He's not doing anything illegal so other then it just being a bit unusual, nothing to see here IMO. While I understand the negative connotation associated with online schooling, it really isn't that bad. I do it because I have a family and a full-time federal job and I spent 5 years in the Marines after high school so I didn't give myself a chance to attend a university. This was my only chance at supporting my family and obtaining a college degree.

My beef is whether or not you can reasonabily assure academic misconduct is not taking place. Being almost exclusively online opens that door more than a traditional classroom IMO.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Maybe Mom and Dad saw some of the stupid crap he was doing and said for your own protection you are living at home with us and taking all your courses online.

 

[woolybug25]

My problem with it isn't even that the courses are online. It's just that its another suspicious behavior shown by a kid that has constantly been doing suspicious stuff since the day he stepped on campus.

He has shown that he doesn't give one rip about public perception of him, being that he is constantly getting his picture taken in front row seats of games, flashing money and partying in a bar underage in a Scooby outfit.

When there is smoke... there is fire...

 

[phork]

My problem with it isn't even that the courses are online. It's just that its another suspicious behavior shown by a kid that has constantly been doing suspicious stuff since the day he stepped on campus.

He has shown that he doesn't give one rip about public perception of him, being that he is constantly getting his picture taken in front row seats of games, flashing money and partying in a bar underage in a Scooby outfit.

When there is smoke... there is fire...

I know what you mean. Like starring in those trick shot videos, thats sketchy behaviour.

 

[irishpat183]

He's a freshman thrown into the spotlight. From all that I've heard, he's a stand up guy that gets 100's of pic requests, autograph requests...etc daily and gets tired of it.


I mean, if he was a senior, I'd question his attitude, but he's a freshman in college and instead of enjoying himself, he's got the weight of an entire program on his shoulders. I'll cut him slack until I hear he's gotten a DUI, stolen some laptops, fighting, robbery...etc.

Trickshot videos and bar pics with hot women? Not a problem.


And online classes are the way of the future for athletes IMO...no distractions.

 

[irishpat183]

It's amazing to see people here that defend Floyd after his THIRD run-in with the law (as an upperclassmen)...and bash this guy for something that's not even close to what Floyd was gulity of as a fish. Come on.


Lets see who Johnny becomes when he's a Jr or Sr....


I'm not an A&M fan by any means, but I also see the hypocrisy going on here.

 

[PraetorianND]

This doesn't bother me at all. Tons of classes are offered online at many schools. I have a friend who teaches at an online high school and she frequently teaches and tutors Olympic athletes who train full time for their sports (mainly gymnasts). She said that the students who are in the program are generally super motivated and work extremely hard because it is in their best interest to complete their school work as quickly and thoroughly as possible. It's an option these kids chose because of their athletic demands.

If you can get a legit MBA or engineering degree online what's the problem with this?

 

[Old Man Mike]

There is a kind of education which can be done without personal presence and a kind of education which cannot. If any reader does not agree with this dichotomy, they are not thinking widely enough about education. Examples:

1). Shall we give degrees in the sciences without laboratory work?
2). Shall we give degrees in the engineering professions without actually learning the technologies hands-on?
3). Shall we embrace medical students, or health associated pre-professionals, without any direct involvement with the disciplines?
Such examples could go on. Note that this sort of analysis sets apart many of the most important disciplines from the online enthusiasm.

It is my rather experienced belief that it does not come anywhere near stopping there. [I'm not talking about Manziel and whatever situation he's engaging in. I have suspicions but who really cares?]. There is a potential in the human mind called ascending from mere concrete thinking to higher cognitive thinking. This is the Devil to teach as is. Cultivating the learner's true ability to become an analytical thinker, then a mind capable of true synthesis thinking, and then the ability to engage in high-level evaluation of complex subjects, understanding the multidimensionality of such problems, requires --- if you're going to succeed at all --- a personal teacher/ student and often small group/ teacher/ students dynamic which uses all the overtness and the subtleties of raw presence to achieve. "Virtual Presence" might get there someday, but we are miles off. [Persons here on IE continuously misunderstand the "other guy" due to the two-dimensionality of electronic exchange].

For certain subject matters you can "can" courses. I was a little bit of a large-audience lecture legend at WMU, and people occasionally asked if I thought I might film all my stuff and the University employ it online. Even there i didn't like the idea, because there is no better instant-opportunity for lighting a curiosity fire which might burn for a lifetime than the exact second the question arises in the student's mind and the hand goes up. Right then the educational process gets intensely personal and, if you're any good, a conflagration of the intellect's vision occurs. Pretty priceless, in my view.

I look at this movement towards "isolation education" as another dangerous aspect of a culture building boxes of convenience around its citizens, which will produce God Knows What increase in percentages of not only mediocrity and even bizarreness. Sure, some can self-educate. Most can't.



As to Manziel: anyone who says that this is not another evidence that these universities are making it a cakewalk for remaining eligible, is kidding themselves for some reason opaque to me.

 

[DomerInHappyValley]

He's a freshman thrown into the spotlight. From all that I've heard, he's a stand up guy that gets 100's of pic requests, autograph requests...etc daily and gets tired of it.


I mean, if he was a senior, I'd question his attitude, but he's a freshman in college and instead of enjoying himself, he's got the weight of an entire program on his shoulders. I'll cut him slack until I hear he's gotten a DUI, stolen some laptops, fighting, robbery...etc.

Trickshot videos and bar pics with hot women? Not a problem.


And online classes are the way of the future for athletes IMO...no distractions.

IIRC he was an EE as well as red shirted.
Assuming he's done the summer semesters as well he should be into his junior year this semester.
On the plus side this has given us some thing else to debate this off season.

 

[PraetorianND]

There is a kind of education which can be done without personal presence and a kind of education which cannot. If any reader does not agree with this dichotomy, they are not thinking widely enough about education. Examples:

1). Shall we give degrees in the sciences without laboratory work?
2). Shall we give degrees in the engineering professions without actually learning the technologies hands-on?
3). Shall we embrace medical students, or health associated pre-professionals, without any direct involvement with the disciplines?
Such examples could go on. Note that this sort of analysis sets apart many of the most important disciplines from the online enthusiasm.

It is my rather experienced belief that it does not come anywhere near stopping there. [I'm not talking about Manziel and whatever situation he's engaging in. I have suspicions but who really cares?]. There is a potential in the human mind called ascending from mere concrete thinking to higher cognitive thinking. This is the Devil to teach as is. Cultivating the learner's true ability to become an analytical thinker, then a mind capable of true synthesis thinking, and then the ability to engage in high-level evaluation of complex subjects, understanding the multidimensionality of such problems, requires --- if you're going to succeed at all --- a personal teacher/ student and often small group/ teacher/ students dynamic which uses all the overtness and the subtleties of raw presence to achieve. "Virtual Presence" might get there someday, but we are miles off. [Persons here on IE continuously misunderstand the "other guy" due to the two-dimensionality of electronic exchange].

For certain subject matters you can "can" courses. I was a little bit of a large-audience lecture legend at WMU, and people occasionally asked if I thought I might film all my stuff and the University employ it online. Even there i didn't like the idea, because there is no better instant-opportunity for lighting a curiosity fire which might burn for a lifetime than the exact second the question arises in the student's mind and the hand goes up. Right then the educational process gets intensely personal and, if you're any good, a conflagration of the intellect's vision occurs. Pretty priceless, in my view.

I look at this movement towards "isolation education" as another dangerous aspect of a culture building boxes of convenience around its citizens, which will produce God Knows What increase in percentages of not only mediocrity and even bizarreness. Sure, some can self-educate. Most can't.



As to Manziel: anyone who says that this is not another evidence that these universities are making it a cakewalk for remaining eligible, is kidding themselves for some reason opaque to me.

I'm sorry but I flat out disagree with 90% of this post.

As an educator you should ABSOLUTELY want to film your courses and make them available to a wider audience. Giving people the opportunity to take your "legendary" course is limited to the number of seats in the auditorium. By filming the class and disseminating it you can reach a wider audience and have a greater impact by reaching more students. Also, there are many instances where people cannot attend classes for many reasons. For example, my wife gave birth to our son during law school and the law school was nice enough to tape all the lectures she missed while recovering so she wouldn't fall behind. Why wouldn't you want that? That's just one example of the MANY good reasons to offer your class in a different format than in-class lecture. Extenuating circumstances aside, what percentage of students participated in your lectures? I'm guessing it would be less than 10% (correct me if I'm wrong). Everyone is listening, taking notes, and absorbing. Why can't this be done at home? Or from a hospital bed? Or from another country, a ship at sea, the space station? It can and it should. Especially if there is the capability for participation from remote users, which in many cases exists.

Isolation Education - Are you any more or less isolated when in a lecture hall of a thousands students or when listening to a lecture in your living room by yourself? I would argue it is the same. The working world is increasingly going the way of independence. Companies are realizing that having offices and employees with commutes are expensive and not always productive. Obviously not all jobs can be this way but many can be made remote. In my opinion, as a society, we should embrace the potential for telecommuting because it is far less wasteful for a variety of reasons; money, gas, time, office space, etc. I worked at one job where we had weekly meetings (with video and audio) with counterparts across the U.S., Amsterdam, and India and it didn't take anything away from the team dynamic. In fact, it did the opposite because without that technology I wouldn't have been able to interact as well with my coworkers.

I also think the social impact of less interaction could be better for society than not. For example, when you work in an office there is a decorum and socialization that is expected to "fit in." Many times people simply do not fit into these types of environments and the socialization required is more work than the work they would be doing in itself. Many talented people might be better suited for telecommuting but the standards of society demand something different which is in my opinion asinine when we have the technology and general understanding of human behavior to optimize work environments to maximize productivity and happiness.

Sorry for the long rant. I just think that we should embrace the 21st century rather than fight against it. I think projects like Itunes U and MIT edX are brilliant and offer something to people that is far more valuable than an in-class-lecture at random school X with 1,000 other students sitting and taking notes.

In fact, go onto Itunes U, take Stanford's iOS programming course and you'll be blown away by the potential of online education.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/03/education/harvard-and-mit-team-up-to-offer-free-online-courses.html?_r=0

 

[WakeUpEchoes]

I'm not sure if your MIT example (or your Stanford example) really works. Those courses are not offered for credit. That means it won't go towards your degree.

And look at the attrition rates for the MIT online classes. It is absolutely unbelievable.

Students learn better in an interactive environment. I'm not talking about sociology or art degrees (not to downplay those degrees at all). But those studying in the sciences, law, etc., need to actively engage with others.

I appreciate that there are those who are proactive about their education and learn on their own. But the majority can't do it.

None of this applies to Manziel b/c he is going to play in the NFL. I just don't agree that online classes "are the future of education." It's just not the case. And if they are, then it will still be in an interactive environment (Skype, etc.).

 

[PraetorianND]

I'm not sure if your MIT example (or your Stanford example) really works. Those courses are not offered for credit. That means it won't go towards your degree.

And look at the attrition rates for the MIT online classes. It is absolutely unbelievable.

Students learn better in an interactive environment. I'm not talking about sociology or art degrees (not to downplay those degrees at all). But those studying in the sciences, law, etc., need to actively engage with others.

I appreciate that there are those who are proactive about their education and learn on their own. But the majority can't do it.

None of this applies to Manziel b/c he is going to play in the NFL. I just don't agree that online classes "are the future of education." It's just not the case. And if they are, then it will still be in an interactive environment (Skype, etc.).

You're assuming that online education means there is no interaction. I am not making that assumption.

The Stanford and MIT examples were being used to show the potential of online education (in the broader sense) not the potential for classes only for pursuit of a degree.

Nowhere in my post did I say that online classes "are the future of education." I'm saying we should embrace the technology that we have and that is being developed to improve online education to make it better because online education has a lot of value. I never said we should take away in-class learning....

 

[TDHeysus]

I just don't agree that online classes "are the future of education." It's just not the case. And if they are, then it will still be in an interactive environment (Skype, etc.).

the classes are interactive......Online courses are interactive, there are interactive classroom applications that allow real-time lecturing, along with the ability for student to ask questions, in real-time and other students in the 'class' hear the questions posed by other students participating in the lecture.

there are lots of variables when it comes to how the school is setup. Some districts/teachers may be more interactive than others, some teachers may require more in class time than others, etc.

there are required times to be in front of the computer, as well as there are required times to be in class as well. For instance, in my district, Testing is done in the classroom and requires students to be on campus, in class. Albeit, they probably wont all be in the class at the same time taking a test like 99% of everyone on this board did growing up; but there are times that will require the student to be there in person. But the majority of the class is done remotely.

Some classes are logistically different and pose unique issues. For example, thru the district i work in, students can take Physical Education, which requires them to meet as a group once a week. This is in addition to any required classroom, or testing time needed.

 

[General Colon Bowel]

I go to Texas A&M, and my roommate is in one of Manziel's classes. It's an online course, where the learning is done online & tests are taken on campus in an actual classroom. My roommate said he sat next to Manziel for the first test of the semester, and people were trying to get autographs & pictures w/ him before the test. Once the test started, people were stilling pulling out their phones & trying to take covert pictures of him. My roommate said at one point he heard Manziel say to his friend (or probably rather bodyguard; he had an entourage of lineman w/ him) "I'm so sick of this ****". You have to give the guy a little bit of a break, it's gotta be difficult to deal with those distractions every day. His only other option besides online courses (most of which aren't joke classes) is to be mobbed by the football-crazy student body. I guarantee you, he would be chased around campus by girls & guys alike.

 

[irishpat183]

I go to Texas A&M, and my roommate is in one of Manziel's classes. It's an online course, where the learning is done online & tests are taken on campus in an actual classroom. My roommate said he sat next to Manziel for the first test of the semester, and people were trying to get autographs & pictures w/ him before the test. Once the test started, people were stilling pulling out their phones & trying to take covert pictures of him. My roommate said at one point he heard Manziel say to his friend (or probably rather bodyguard; he had an entourage of lineman w/ him) "I'm so sick of this ****". You have to give the guy a little bit of a break, it's gotta be difficult to deal with those distractions every day. His only other option besides online courses (most of which aren't joke classes) is to be mobbed by the football-crazy student body. I guarantee you, he would be chased around campus by girls & guys alike.

Exactly.

I have some contacts affilated with the university (and a buddy in grad school) that have said the same thing. It's a mad house.

Problem is, NOBODY gets anything done in that enviroment

 

[irishpat183]

I know it wasn't your post that said it "was the future." That was part of my spewing. I think it was IrishPat who said it.

The MIT and Harvard classes are so early in development there is no telling where it could go. I think there could eventually be a way to supplement the two and provide a way to learn from home - Skype, remoting in to the class, etc. But I also think this will only work in limited circumstances and with limited types of material. And I still don't foresee it being as useful.

Again, I don't think this applies to JM b/c he likely isn't taking these types of classes and he doesn't care.

It was me.


But I what I meant (and should've been more clear) is that it absolutley is the way the world is heading. How can anyone not see that? More and more is being done online. Classes are being taught all over the world in different countries. Pretty soon, "going to class" will be at the click of a button. It's a trend that will continue due to it's accessibility and low costs.

 

[PraetorianND]

I know it wasn't your post that said it "was the future." That was part of my spewing. I think it was IrishPat who said it.

The MIT and Harvard classes are so early in development there is no telling where it could go. I think there could eventually be a way to supplement the two and provide a way to learn from home - Skype, remoting in to the class, etc. But I also think this will only work in limited circumstances and with limited types of material. And I still don't foresee it being as useful.

Again, I don't think this applies to JM b/c he likely isn't taking these types of classes and he doesn't care.

I think this is unfair. There is nothing to indicate that this is the case. JM might just be tired of being mobbed. In fact it could be the opposite of what you're saying. He really, really wants to learn and can't because he's constantly being interrupted and sees online classes as a way to get an education.

There are TONS of online programs that are even more well developed than Harvard and MIT's edX. I used those as examples because they are two of the most preeminent institutions in the world. I'm fairly confident that they know better than we do what works and what doesn't in education. I trust that the programs are useful and have value.

 

[nlroma1o]

When I graduated, I was 9 credits short of the 150 I needed to sit for the CPA. I took 6 credits in a classroom at IUSB and i took another online course for my final 3 credits... All I'm gonna say is, from personal experience, the online class I took was a complete and utter joke. I wasn't necessarily upset that it was so easy, I was just pissed that it cost me $800 for 3 credits and I finished the course material in 1 month. The course was 13 weeks long.... I basically just had to pay $800 for the credits, it was that worthless... The course description should have just read: NEED CREDITS? Give us $800 and you got em. I would have loved to actually have learned something for that $800.... I dont understand how someone taking online courses could be considered a full time student. If anything it just shows that T A&M's academic curiculum is a joke.

 

[condoms SUCk]

When I graduated, I was 9 credits short of the 150 I needed to sit for the CPA. I took 6 credits in a classroom at IUSB and i took another online course for my final 3 credits... All I'm gonna say is, from personal experience, the online class I took was a complete and utter joke. I wasn't necessarily upset that it was so easy, I was just pissed that it cost me $800 for 3 credits and I finished the course material in 1 month. The course was 13 weeks long.... I basically just had to pay $800 for the credits, it was that worthless... The course description should have just read: NEED CREDITS? Give us $800 and you got em. I would have loved to actually have learned something for that $800.... I dont understand how someone taking online courses could be considered a full time student. If anything it just shows that T A&M's academic curiculum is a joke.

^^ This 1,000%

I took a Contracts and Procurement course for my M.B.A. and that was the only online course I took.
I hated the set up as it was choppy, and hard to get true in-depth class discussions.
Here is what my on line class looked like.
1). You have to engage in an online discussion related to the topic for that week. You had to comment or "post" 3 times a week at 3 different times. You had to post an original idea on the topic and respond to someone else’s post twice. It was hard to have an actual discussion b/c most of the comments were very vague and simplistic.
2). We had a weekly assignment and a quiz every 2 chapters with a Mid-term and a final. This was not bad as it was open book and note.
3). We also had an end of course team project where each team member was given a portion of the assignment to complete. Once each section was completed we have to merge all these different writing styles and make sure that the project flowed and seemed cohesive. It was a nightmare because it was hard to get everyone on the same page over class chats or the phone so someone ended up going through and merging all the assigned sections together.

 

[Grahambo]

When I graduated, I was 9 credits short of the 150 I needed to sit for the CPA. I took 6 credits in a classroom at IUSB and i took another online course for my final 3 credits... All I'm gonna say is, from personal experience, the online class I took was a complete and utter joke. I wasn't necessarily upset that it was so easy, I was just pissed that it cost me $800 for 3 credits and I finished the course material in 1 month. The course was 13 weeks long.... I basically just had to pay $800 for the credits, it was that worthless... The course description should have just read: NEED CREDITS? Give us $800 and you got em. I would have loved to actually have learned something for that $800.... I dont understand how someone taking online courses could be considered a full time student. If anything it just shows that T A&M's academic curiculum is a joke.

Some of the top tiered universities offer online classes and online degrees to include master's degree. Federal Student Aid also allows students to earn aid despite taking online classes.