Opinions/Discussions on Guns

[GoIrish41]

Was it OK when Bush did it to announce a veto of stem cell research, or doesn't that count either?

Flashback: George W. Bush Used ‘Snowflake Children’ As Props When He Announced His Veto of Stem Cell Research in 2006 Pensito Review

 

[DSully1995]

Just curious. What are Canada's gun laws? I don't think I have ever seen anyone mention them. Do you have them and if so what are they?

Well to get one you need to get a license, by doing safety training, applying then having background checks, limited magazine capacity and other specs prohibitions, also have to be store in a secure locked location.

I never really knew much but this wiki page is pretty informative Gun politics in Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[In Lou I Trust]

Was it OK when Bush did it to announce a veto of stem cell research, or doesn't that count either?

Flashback: George W. Bush Used ‘Snowflake Children’ As Props When He Announced His Veto of Stem Cell Research in 2006*Pensito Review

The anti-stem cell argument was, correct me if I'm wrong, about fetuses, no? Fetuses that could've been children. Children... like the one Bush was holding.

 

[phgreek]

Well if you are one that is against universal background checks, a ban on high capacity magazines, and an assault weapons ban things may work out alright for you.

I assume any gun control legistration would have to start in the senate. Harry Reid seems uncomfortable on an assualts weapons bun but I assume he still brings other 2 items on gun legistlation to the floor.

However, good chance it gets fillbustered. Now say they it does pass the Senate there is a good chance that John Boener doesn't even bring it up for a vote in the house because of of the "Dennis Hastard rule".

Bottom line there are lots of barriers for policy change. I think the background checks make it through if it is proposed seperately possibly high capacity magazines. I think an assault weapons ban would fail. I want it to pass but I don't think it will thanks to the fillibuster and gerymandering.

Note the Hastard rule is when as speaker of the house you only bring bills to the floor that a majority of your party is in favor of.

As for me...I like all background checks all the time, I don't like high capacity clips...banning weapons...mmm...you need to do better on the definition that makes them more dangerous than any other semi auto weapon...and please find me a handgun that isn't semi-auto (I know they exist...but can you put your hands on one). ...I just don't think you can get there on the guns.

I'm not sure the purpose of most of what you are saying ...is this all justification for an EO to get all the things the president wants?

 

[chicago51]

Was it OK when Bush did it to announce a veto of stem cell research, or doesn't that count either?

Flashback: George W. Bush Used ‘Snowflake Children’ As Props When He Announced His Veto of Stem Cell Research in 2006*Pensito Review

Bottom line this no president has been more strongly opposed by his opposition than Obama. People are just look for any little thing to critize. He has had to deal with a record number of fillibusters in the Senate. Republican Senate leader Mcconnell said that his purpose was to ensure Obama didn't get reelected. I thought a member of congress was supposed to serve the American people.

This whole Obama using kids thing is all a distraction try to distract the people from the actual issue. If enough people get distracted by Obama's polictical tactics then they will forget about the issue at hand which is gun violence.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

Bottom line this no president has been more strongly opposed by his opposition than Obama. People are just look for any little thing to critize. He has had to deal with a record number of fillibusters in the Senate. Republican Senate leader Mcconnell said that his purpose was to ensure Obama didn't get reelected. I thought a member of congress was supposed to serve the American people.

This whole Obama using kids thing is all a distraction try to distract the people from the actual issue. If enough people get distracted by Obama's polictical tactics then they will forget about the issue at hand which is gun violence.

Do you think that legally owned guns are the cause of more deaths than illegally owned guns? The issue isn't gun violence... it's violence as a whole. Guns are just the scapegoat.

 

[chicago51]

As for me...I like all background checks all the time, I don't like high capacity clips...banning weapons...mmm...you need to do better on the definition that makes them more dangerous than any other semi auto weapon...and please find me a handgun that isn't semi-auto (I know they exist...but can you put your hands on one). ...I just don't think you can get there on the guns.

I'm not sure the purpose of most of what you are saying ...is this all justification for an EO to get all the things the president wants?

No an executive orders on these issue would be beyond the presidents scope that I agree. If you look at the EOs orders actually used they are all constitiionally within the president's scope of power.

No my point of my post was gun crazies may get their way because Congress does not function right now.

Although the president is taking the very clever approach of trying making his opposition vote against things that are very popular. I think he is hoping Dems get the house in 2014 but it won't happen because of gerymandered districts that while legal kind of rig things.

 

[chicago51]

Do you think that legally owned guns are the cause of more deaths than illegally owned guns? The issue isn't gun violence... it's violence as a whole. Guns are just the scapegoat.

The president mention that no law will end gun violence. The point the president made and I agree with is that if we can save just one person's life we shoud do it.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

The president mention that no law will end gun violence. The point the president made and I agree with is that if we can save just one person's life we shoud do it.

Putting guns in the hands of mentally stable and capable adults saves lives. Is it just a coincidence that the places in this country that have some of the most strict gun laws also have the most murders?

 

[phgreek]

Was it OK when Bush did it to announce a veto of stem cell research, or doesn't that count either?

Flashback: George W. Bush Used ‘Snowflake Children’ As Props When He Announced His Veto of Stem Cell Research in 2006*Pensito Review

Still different...the decision was done.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt so we don't get 50 images of presidents using kids. It is indeed possible he was using kids to get over having his veto overridden...so there Bush did it too.

Can I tell you something...

I never made an argument that these are tactics only "D" people use.

I said I thought what Obama was doing was using kids as leverage. I presented an alternative means to achieve the goal...calm kids, make them feel like they are heard...you can do that with a PSA?

Does Bush, Clinton ....Jefferson, Washington having done something similar to Obama change the reality of what Obama is doing? Does that invalidate my observation and preference for handling this?

Either you believe Mr. Obama used kids as a lever or you don't... I do.

I will say, based on your presentation of the "your guy too" argument, one could walk away thinking you

a) think Mr Obama did use kids as a lever;
b) think that isn't too cool

...why else do folks do the "your guy did it too" relativism.

 

[chicago51]

Putting guns in the hands of mentally stable and capable adults saves lives. Is it just a coincidence that the places in this country that have some of the most strict gun laws also have the most murders?

It is not like guns can't be move across state line or even county lines. For example there is no assault weapons ban in Illinios so despite all the gun restrictions in Cook Country (Chicago) people can get guns in Illinios outside of Cook County or Indiana. Also the idea behind the assault weapons ban and restriction on high capacity magazines is to lower the number of deaths per event. I am confident that it will lower the number of mass shootings.

Unfortunately you are right in that banning how capicity magazines does not solve the frequency of events only the amount killed in each frequency. In the areas with the most murders that you refer actually don't have inncidents were one bad guy kills 30 people. It is more of a matter groups of people shooting at other groups of people. Hopefully the approval of the universal background check system will help with this so less bad guys can have any gun period. One of the EOs was to crack down on those that buy guns and then sell them to criminals illegally. So hopefully that improves things as well.

Reality wise mass shootings and urban shootings I think can both be improved on but have to be attacked in different directions. Gun control laws don't take away bad people but they do limit how many people one bad guy can kill.

 

[phgreek]

No an executive orders on these issue would be beyond the presidents scope that I agree. If you look at the EOs orders actually used they are all constitiionally within the president's scope of power.

K, understood. We might argue some of those some day. I feel the impact of the combination of related EOs taken as if they were implmented as one...he fails...but that appears not to be an evaluative criteria

No my point of my post was gun crazies may get their way because Congress does not function right now.

I think we'll always disagree here. It SHOULD be REALLY HARD to get things done in congress, particularly when we are talking about trade offs between liberty and public safety. Those things simply cannot be done "quickly" w/o serious unintended consequences.

Although the president is taking the very clever approach of trying making his opposition vote against things that are very popular. I think he is hoping Dems get the house in 2014 but it won't happen because of gerymandered districts that while legal kind of rig things.

interesting point I guess...Political gamesmanship annnoys me from both sides... so while I can appreciate someone manipulating a game...and I know thats how most of these guys see this...I wish there were some people more interested in the health of the nation than beating the other guy's a$$.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

Gun control laws don't take away bad people but they do limit how many people one bad guy can kill.

Didn't Obama say that if his can save the life of one person it's worth it? So now the most important thing is how many people will die per incident? Gun laws don't take away bad people... you are correct. However, they do prevent citizens from protecting themselves.

 

[chicago51]

Didn't Obama say that if his can save the life of one person it's worth it? So now the most important thing is how many people will die per incident? Gun laws don't take away bad people... you are correct. However, they do prevent citizens from protecting themselves.

So you need a bushmaster to protect yourself?

What armor piercing rounds?

 

[In Lou I Trust]

So you need a bushmaster to protect yourself?

What armor piercing rounds?

Ever heard of the '92 LA Riots? Look to the Koreans who protected themselves and their property armed with semi-auto rifles... aka assault weapons.

 

[GoIrish41]

The anti-stem cell argument was, correct me if I'm wrong, about fetuses, no? Fetuses that could've been children. Children... like the one Bush was holding.

So, Bush used the kids as props to make some sort of political point ... huh?

 

[RDU Irish]

So you need a bushmaster to protect yourself?

What armor piercing rounds?

I thought he only took handguns in and the semi-auto rifle stayed in the trunk and wasn't a Bushmaster? Forgive me but I refuse to watch or read any articles on this mess since I think it only fuels more articles and notoriety to the sick freaks of this country.

 

[chicago51]

I thought he only took handguns in and the semi-auto rifle stayed in the trunk and wasn't a Bushmaster? Forgive me but I refuse to watch or read any articles on this mess since I think it only fuels more articles and notoriety to the sick freaks of this country.

The AR 15 was used by Adam Lanza and definetly used by James Holmes.

 

[brandonnash]

Ever heard of the '92 LA Riots? Look to the Koreans who protected themselves and their property armed with semi-auto rifles... aka assault weapons.

Agree. I hear people talk all the time about how you don't need high cap mags or AR's to protect yourself. I tend to think of the worst case scenario. You would never want to be in a life or death situation only to say "I wish I had ----". I don't think that another country will try to invade us anytime soon, but there is always the possibility that it will happen. When it does I don't want to be looking out my window with a 7 round capacity pistol.

 

[RDU Irish]

Which douche bags are those? I try not to engrave the names of murderous d!cks in my mind and I refuse to google it and give any more hits to the names. Are you also saying AR 15 is synonomous with Bushmaster?

 

[GoIrish41]

Still different...the decision was done.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt so we don't get 50 images of presidents using kids. It is indeed possible he was using kids to get over having his veto overridden...so there Bush did it too.

Can I tell you something...

I never made an argument that these are tactics only "D" people use.

I said I thought what Obama was doing was using kids as leverage. I presented an alternative means to achieve the goal...calm kids, make them feel like they are heard...you can do that with a PSA?

Does Bush, Clinton ....Jefferson, Washington having done something similar to Obama change the reality of what Obama is doing? Does that invalidate my observation and preference for handling this?

Either you believe Mr. Obama used kids as a lever or you don't... I do.

I will say, based on your presentation of the "your guy too" argument, one could walk away thinking you

a) think Mr Obama did use kids as a lever;
b) think that isn't too cool

...why else do folks do the "your guy did it too" relativism.

Oh, he obviously used the kids as a lever ... no question about it. I'm personally not crazy about it no matter who does it, but I'm not pissed about it our anything. But, some of the rhetoric on here criticizing him for it was a bit off -- like he did something novel and horrible. Someone tried to show that it was done in the past by others, and was told that wasn't the same. So I posted another, and like you rightly pointed out, we could do that all night long, because it happens fairly frequently. I was just trying to point out a little hypocricy. The bottom line is the proposals were made and to that I say, it is about time.

 

[chicago51]

Which douche bags are those? I try not to engrave the names of murderous d!cks in my mind and I refuse to google it and give any more hits to the names. Are you also saying AR 15 is synonomous with Bushmaster?

Newtown yes Newtown and Auora CO.

 

[chicago51]

Agree. I hear people talk all the time about how you don't need high cap mags or AR's to protect yourself. I tend to think of the worst case scenario. You would never want to be in a life or death situation only to say "I wish I had ----". I don't think that another country will try to invade us anytime soon, but there is always the possibility that it will happen. When it does I don't want to be looking out my window with a 7 round capacity pistol.

Been watching too much Red Dawn.

With the US navy and airforce not to mention spending more $ on military than the next 13 closest countries combined I think we are pretty save from an invasion.

 

[wizards8507]

I'm pretty sure murder is illegal in this country. If someone is willing to break the law to MURDER someone, why on earth would they FOLLOW any new gun laws we threw at them. The only people who follow gun laws are the people who are using guns to protect themselvs from people who DON'T.

 

[RDU Irish]

Might have to protect our southern border to keep all of those now illegal guns out of the US that Obama and Holder sold to the drug cartels. Not that anyone living around there worries about violence or anything.

Any government has a harder time oppressing an armed citizenry. That includes our own.

 

[GoIrish41]

Might have to protect our southern border to keep all of those now illegal guns out of the US that Obama and Holder sold to the drug cartels. Not that anyone living around there worries about violence or anything.

Any government has a harder time oppressing an armed citizenry. That includes our own.

Alright there Ted Nugent, tap the breaks.

 

[irishpat183]

Gun laws do nothing to prevent crime. Just ask the UK and Austrialia.

And unless your getting rid of handguns, new gun laws won't put a dent in gun crime.

So it's useless and a power grab that's gearing towards disarming citizens all together.

I will ask this again, as I did with the new health care bill, to all those supporting this new abuse of power...err...legislation:

If it is such a great idea...why don't politicans participate? Tell the secret service to lay down their weapons.

That is the ONLY point to be made here. If it's not good for them...why the hell, as a person who may have voted them in office, should I be subjected to it?

 

[irishpat183]

Alright there Ted Nugent, tap the breaks.

You ever been down to the Valley (deep south Texas)???

If not, you really have no clue as to how bad it is down there.....

 

[irishpat183]

Might have to protect our southern border to keep all of those now illegal guns out of the US that Obama and Holder sold to the drug cartels. Not that anyone living around there worries about violence or anything.

Any government has a harder time oppressing an armed citizenry. That includes our own.

South Texas is a damn warzone right now....

You know they found a hand granade on the campus of UT Brownsville? And Ranchers are constantly being shot at on their own property.

It's insane

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

I hope those of you who feel the government is crushing individual freedoms are out there protesting arrests due to pot and protesting the gay marriage ban too....