Opinions/Discussions on Guns

[notredomer23]

All of this and protect our schools, since there have been so many school shootings we can assume that they are and will remain a target for phsycos. Put security protocols in place and armed "resource officers" at every school.

Pretty sure New Jersey has this, or maybe my high school last year was just an exception. For my four years of high school, though, there was an armed police officer on school grounds for all school functions. And it isn't as if I lived in a part where there is a lot of crime. I live in a very, very rural part of the state, where honestly it probably wasn't that big of a necessity. Until something like Newtown happens.


In my opinion, this isn't a gun problem, or a mental healthcare problem even, but it is a societal problems. 6 of the 12 deadliest shootings in this country have occurred since 2007. The media posterizes the killers all over the place. I can still perfectly picture Jared Loughner's insane look shortly after his rampage or James Holmes's orange hair. Thankfully, I haven't seen too many of Adam Lanza's pictures on the television, but when it was initially thought his brother, there was pictures all over the place. And honestly, I know they are just reporting the news, but maybe they should treat it is an anonymous terrorist attack. I know it isn't that, but at the same time, these crazy people who sadly would probably just go to their basements and kill themselves are now seeing this on TV and instead of just being some loser their whole life that wasn't remembered for anything, they now try and outdo all these massacres because they will receive infamy. The attention should be given to the victim and the heroes such as Victoria Soto, not Adam Lanza.

Another contributing factor(once again, this is strictly my opinion) is the violence in Hollywood and video games. In Call of Duty MW2, you are a terrorist in one level that kills hundreds of civilians ruthlessly. Or Grand Theft Auto where you just go around doing whatever you want, killing and stealing in order to beat the game. This doesn't even get into the topic of Hollywood movies such as "Rampage". If you haven't heard of it, read about it. I wasted my time shortly after the Movie Theatre Massacre, and I think to myself, 'wow, this really could have given Holmes an example or motivation of how to pull off such a crime'. There are 100's of movies, excluding war, police, or spy movies, that have people just kill like it is nothing. Our society treats life as if it is nothing. They just throw it around. When you are growing up and exposed to this all the time, to go along with mental issues like the shooter, this can create something really bad.

Our society needs to teach gun safety. It is imperative. How did this kid have such easy access to these guns? Were they not in a safe? I don't think it is a good thing to prohibit guns, at all, but at the same time, there has to be some kind of limitation. I really like New Jersey's law on guns. You must have a permit to own and purchase them, and it takes about 6 months in order to get a permit because of all the background checks that the state and FBI does. There is also a month long waiting period when you purchase a gun and when you get it. It also has an assault weapon ban, which essentially means no bayonet stocks, no magazines greater than fifteen rounds, and it can be switched from automatic to semiautomatic among some other characteristics. The second amendment needs to be protected at all costs, but to what extent?

Banning guns is not the answer. Australia has found this out the hard way. Violent crime has spiked. For Christ's sake, Mexico and Brazil have gun bans too, how is that working out for them. Even the UK has some kind of gun ban where handgun crime is up 40% since the ban took place. It isn't going to stop the criminals from getting guns. And heck, if I am a criminal, and I know that family doesn't have a gun since it is illegal, I can guarantee you I am more likely to rob them than if I knew they had a gun.

I apologize for a bunch of thoughts into one post. I've just been thinking a lot about this since it happened and it is more me venting over the events and seeing how some people have reacted to it and what not. If some of my thoughts are off base or incorrect, please inform me.

God bless.

 

[pkt77242]

Pretty sure New Jersey has this, or maybe my high school last year was just an exception. For my four years of high school, though, there was an armed police officer on school grounds for all school functions. And it isn't as if I lived in a part where there is a lot of crime. I live in a very, very rural part of the state, where honestly it probably wasn't that big of a necessity. Until something like Newtown happens.


In my opinion, this isn't a gun problem, or a mental healthcare problem even, but it is a societal problems. 6 of the 12 deadliest shootings in this country have occurred since 2007. The media posterizes the killers all over the place. I can still perfectly picture Jared Loughner's insane look shortly after his rampage or James Holmes's orange hair. Thankfully, I haven't seen too many of Adam Lanza's pictures on the television, but when it was initially thought his brother, there was pictures all over the place. And honestly, I know they are just reporting the news, but maybe they should treat it is an anonymous terrorist attack. I know it isn't that, but at the same time, these crazy people who sadly would probably just go to their basements and kill themselves are now seeing this on TV and instead of just being some loser their whole life that wasn't remembered for anything, they now try and outdo all these massacres because they will receive infamy. The attention should be given to the victim and the heroes such as Victoria Soto, not Adam Lanza.

Another contributing factor(once again, this is strictly my opinion) is the violence in Hollywood and video games. In Call of Duty MW2, you are a terrorist in one level that kills hundreds of civilians ruthlessly. Or Grand Theft Auto where you just go around doing whatever you want, killing and stealing in order to beat the game. This doesn't even get into the topic of Hollywood movies such as "Rampage". If you haven't heard of it, read about it. I wasted my time shortly after the Movie Theatre Massacre, and I think to myself, 'wow, this really could have given Holmes an example or motivation of how to pull off such a crime'. There are 100's of movies, excluding war, police, or spy movies, that have people just kill like it is nothing. Our society treats life as if it is nothing. They just throw it around. When you are growing up and exposed to this all the time, to go along with mental issues like the shooter, this can create something really bad.

Our society needs to teach gun safety. It is imperative. How did this kid have such easy access to these guns? Were they not in a safe? I don't think it is a good thing to prohibit guns, at all, but at the same time, there has to be some kind of limitation. I really like New Jersey's law on guns. You must have a permit to own and purchase them, and it takes about 6 months in order to get a permit because of all the background checks that the state and FBI does. There is also a month long waiting period when you purchase a gun and when you get it. It also has an assault weapon ban, which essentially means no bayonet stocks, no magazines greater than fifteen rounds, and it can be switched from automatic to semiautomatic among some other characteristics. The second amendment needs to be protected at all costs, but to what extent?

Banning guns is not the answer. Australia has found this out the hard way. Violent crime has spiked. For Christ's sake, Mexico and Brazil have gun bans too, how is that working out for them. Even the UK has some kind of gun ban where handgun crime is up 40% since the ban took place. It isn't going to stop the criminals from getting guns. And heck, if I am a criminal, and I know that family doesn't have a gun since it is illegal, I can guarantee you I am more likely to rob them than if I knew they had a gun.

I apologize for a bunch of thoughts into one post. I've just been thinking a lot about this since it happened and it is more me venting over the events and seeing how some people have reacted to it and what not. If some of my thoughts are off base or incorrect, please inform me.

God bless.

I was taking your post seriously until I got to the part about Mexico. You do realize that the drug cartels get the guns from the US because our gun laws are so lax that it is easy and cheap. For a while now Mexico has been trying to get us to strengthen our gun laws because of it.

 

[DomerInHappyValley]

I was taking your post seriously until I got to the part about Mexico. You do realize that the drug cartels get the guns from the US because our gun laws are so lax that it is easy and cheap. For a while now Mexico has been trying to get us to strengthen our gun laws because of it.

Or you know our government gives them guns.

 

[pkt77242]

We have 3 majore issues to deal with here.

1. Our mental health system is horrible.
2. Our gun laws are too lax (I am for an assault weapons ban, and some other sensible gun laws such as limiting clips to 15 bullets, etc)
3. How we prioritze our spending in the country. Why don't all schools have metal detectors, why don't we have police officers on campus (yes a fair amount of high schools do, but not other grade levels), spending on mental healtchare etc. We spend so much on external defense while we ignore/avoid talking about what is happening here.

Until we as a country can have a big boy/grown up conversation about what is happening we can not fix the problem. Unfortunately people who only blame guns or so say guns are not part of the problem are both to blame. This is a complicated issue that needs to be addressed on multiple levels.

 

[cody1smith]

Gun control is Bull Shi* from top to bottom. Say there was a law making it illegal to posses a gun. He would have broken 51 laws rather than just 50? There is laws against killing people, breaking into schools and stealing guns from your parents now. Laws are not the answer.

This was a kid in his prime if he really wanted to he could have done it with a sword or made a bomb.

My cousin was murdered at the age of 11 by a handicapped person years ago who boarded the doors shut on an apartment building and lit it on fire. Guess we had better ban boards nails gasoline and matches.

If the government could guarantee no more kids would get shot. I would drive every gun i own to the white house and drop them off in the morning. But the cant! It is socialism at some point we are just gonna have to blame it on the people for being stupid *** pieces of ****. Not the parents for not reading the signs correctly or the government for not having enough medical treatment facilities (even though i do think we need more) and defiantly not the guns. And we sure as hell should not punish me by taking my guns or restricting my rights.

 

[pkt77242]

Or you know our government gives them guns.

How about you actually read about what happened. The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal - Fortune Features

Get educated and then come back here and talk about it. Shockingly we didn't intentionally let guns walk, our guns laws make it almost impossible to stop the cartels from having straw buyers buy the guns and then sell them. SMH.

 

[DomerInHappyValley]

 

[cody1smith]

We have 3 majore issues to deal with here.

1. Our mental health system is horrible.
2. Our gun laws are too lax (I am for an assault weapons ban, and some other sensible gun laws such as limiting clips to 15 bullets, etc)
3. How we prioritze our spending in the country. Why don't all schools have metal detectors, why don't we have police officers on campus (yes a fair amount of high schools do, but not other grade levels), spending on mental healtchare etc. We spend so much on external defense while we ignore/avoid talking about what is happening here.

Until we as a country can have a big boy/grown up conversation about what is happening we can not fix the problem. Unfortunately people who only blame guns or so say guns are not part of the problem are both to blame. This is a complicated issue that needs to be addressed on multiple levels.

So 2 10 round clips is so much safer? Come on Where does it stop? Is a ruger mini 14 an assault rifle? Same thing as an ar15. Just looks like a gun a old guy on a horse would carry.

 

[pkt77242]

So 2 10 round clips is so much safer? Come on Where does it stop? Is a ruger mini 14 an assault rifle? Same thing as an ar15. Just looks like a gun a old guy on a horse would carry.

So 30 round clips aren't excessive? 100 round drum magazines for AR 15s aren't excessive? I agree that gun laws can never fix all of the issues but we can be sensible about the laws we enact while also keeping most of the the gun ownership right entact.

 

[CTIDANDREW]

Pretty sure New Jersey has this, or maybe my high school last year was just an exception. For my four years of high school, though, there was an armed police officer on school grounds for all school functions. And it isn't as if I lived in a part where there is a lot of crime. I live in a very, very rural part of the state, where honestly it probably wasn't that big of a necessity. Until something like Newtown happens.


In my opinion, this isn't a gun problem, or a mental healthcare problem even, but it is a societal problems. 6 of the 12 deadliest shootings in this country have occurred since 2007. The media posterizes the killers all over the place. I can still perfectly picture Jared Loughner's insane look shortly after his rampage or James Holmes's orange hair. Thankfully, I haven't seen too many of Adam Lanza's pictures on the television, but when it was initially thought his brother, there was pictures all over the place. And honestly, I know they are just reporting the news, but maybe they should treat it is an anonymous terrorist attack. I know it isn't that, but at the same time, these crazy people who sadly would probably just go to their basements and kill themselves are now seeing this on TV and instead of just being some loser their whole life that wasn't remembered for anything, they now try and outdo all these massacres because they will receive infamy. The attention should be given to the victim and the heroes such as Victoria Soto, not Adam Lanza.

Another contributing factor(once again, this is strictly my opinion) is the violence in Hollywood and video games. In Call of Duty MW2, you are a terrorist in one level that kills hundreds of civilians ruthlessly. Or Grand Theft Auto where you just go around doing whatever you want, killing and stealing in order to beat the game. This doesn't even get into the topic of Hollywood movies such as "Rampage". If you haven't heard of it, read about it. I wasted my time shortly after the Movie Theatre Massacre, and I think to myself, 'wow, this really could have given Holmes an example or motivation of how to pull off such a crime'. There are 100's of movies, excluding war, police, or spy movies, that have people just kill like it is nothing. Our society treats life as if it is nothing. They just throw it around. When you are growing up and exposed to this all the time, to go along with mental issues like the shooter, this can create something really bad.

Our society needs to teach gun safety. It is imperative. How did this kid have such easy access to these guns? Were they not in a safe? I don't think it is a good thing to prohibit guns, at all, but at the same time, there has to be some kind of limitation. I really like New Jersey's law on guns. You must have a permit to own and purchase them, and it takes about 6 months in order to get a permit because of all the background checks that the state and FBI does. There is also a month long waiting period when you purchase a gun and when you get it. It also has an assault weapon ban, which essentially means no bayonet stocks, no magazines greater than fifteen rounds, and it can be switched from automatic to semiautomatic among some other characteristics. The second amendment needs to be protected at all costs, but to what extent?

Banning guns is not the answer. Australia has found this out the hard way. Violent crime has spiked. For Christ's sake, Mexico and Brazil have gun bans too, how is that working out for them. Even the UK has some kind of gun ban where handgun crime is up 40% since the ban took place. It isn't going to stop the criminals from getting guns. And heck, if I am a criminal, and I know that family doesn't have a gun since it is illegal, I can guarantee you I am more likely to rob them than if I knew they had a gun.

I apologize for a bunch of thoughts into one post. I've just been thinking a lot about this since it happened and it is more me venting over the events and seeing how some people have reacted to it and what not. If some of my thoughts are off base or incorrect, please inform me.

God bless.

Great Post. Especially the part about video game culture. "The Shooter" was an avid gamer. I know it is a virtual reality, but when you become so numb to it(killing), it becomes a scary problem. Obviously, we can't ban video games. So honestly i'm not sure it will ever change.

Kids nowadays(myself included) grow up playing with Air soft guns, and play these video games where you virtually kill people daily. Society in my opinion has been institutionalized to almost accept that violence is just apart of daily life, and honestly that is very, very scary. I'm no expert though...just an opinion.

 

[DomerInHappyValley]

How about you actually read about what happened. The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal - Fortune Features

Get educated and then come back here and talk about it. Shockingly we didn't intentionally let guns walk, our guns laws make it almost impossible to stop the cartels from having straw buyers buy the guns and then sell them. SMH.

Univision: The untold story of what 'Fast and Furious' wrought in Mexico - CSMonitor.com

 

[pkt77242]

And you still believe that we purposefully let the guns walk to Mexico, what does that say about you.

 

[woolybug25]

As it has been said before, we need intelligent gun regulation. Making the fines, penalties and associated jail/prison time EXTREMELY harsh would make people take their ownership of these guns more serious.

Neighbor kid steals your hangun out of your bedside dresser and robs a convenience store? Guess what? YOU are going to prison. Shoot yourself on accident (like a certain NFL player)? Guess what?... you go to jail.

The happy medium is strict control, imo. People will find guns, people will find other ways to harm people. But if we create a culture that gun control is a significant responsibility, then people will start taking it seriously. As I mentioned before, we live in a time where our constitution (right to bare arms) is conflicting with the declaration of independence (life, liberty & happiness). Instead of knee-jerk reactions in either direction, we need to come together and have some intelligent conversations on how to actually change behavior. This starts with regulation, but also includes education, planning and changes in how media portrays these incidents.

The reality is that guns allow people to kill on a large scale. Are they the root of the problem? Probably not, but they are making the people that are doing these horrendous crimes way more effective in their pursuits. Doing nothing wont fix the problem, and don't kid yourself, this is a problem.

 

[Downinthebend]

I was taking your post seriously until I got to the part about Mexico. You do realize that the drug cartels get the guns from the US because our gun laws are so lax that it is easy and cheap. For a while now Mexico has been trying to get us to strengthen our gun laws because of it.

NYC and Chicago have the strictest gun laws in the country and people still manage to get shot there. If anything the cartels are a prime example. If you make something illegal, there are still ways to obtain it if you have ill intent.

 

[pkt77242]

Univision: The untold story of what 'Fast and Furious' wrought in Mexico - CSMonitor.com

Did you actually read that aricle? Did you read the fortune article. Look at the sources used by each and come to a logical conclusion. No one has argued that the guns weren't used to commit crimes in Mexico, but our laws made it possible and continues to make it almost impossible to stop the cartels from getting guns.

 

[cody1smith]

So 30 round clips aren't excessive? 100 round drum magazines for AR 15s aren't excessive? I agree that gun laws can never fix all of the issues but we can be sensible about the laws we enact while also keeping most of the the gun ownership right entact.

Wait a minute i have a plan while we are banning things lets ban Methamphetamine while we are at it that stuff kills tons of kids.

Sorry I'm not trying to be a dick but cars that go 200 mph are a little excessive. how about 151 proof booze. 40000 square foot houses I mean who really needs all that stuff.

 

[pkt77242]

NYC and Chicago have the strictest gun laws in the country and people still manage to get shot there. If anything the cartels are a prime example. If you make something illegal, there are still ways to obtain it if you have ill intent.

Agreed, but it isn't particularly difficult to drive from Chicago to either MI, WI or IN and buy a gun. Laws only help if they are uniform otherwise it is like trying to **** on a fire to put it out.

 

[pkt77242]

Wait a minute i have a plan while we are banning things lets ban Methamphetamine while we are at it that stuff kills tons of kids.

Sorry I'm not trying to be a dick but cars that go 200 mph are a little excessive. how about 151 proof booze. 40000 square foot houses I mean who really needs all that stuff.

I would say that our cars should limit you to well below 200 because as far as I know there is no street that you can drive that fast on (yes a race course but that is a little different, just as race cars aren't street legal). I see the point on 151 booze but that doesn't help commit mass killings (well that I know of) and what the **** does 40,000 square foot homes have to do with it. As far as I know they don't kill people.

Also methamphetamines are illegal unless prescribed. In fact you will get a longer sentence for dealing Methamphetamines in many states then for selling an illegal gun. Just saying.

 

[cody1smith]

I agree it is not the same or not even close. But where does it end. We cant just keeping raising taxes and creating new laws. Its a very sad world we live in that kids are getting shot in schools. but crazy *** people are always gonna do crazy *** things. No matter what.

 

[cody1smith]

I would say that our cars should limit you to well below 200 because as far as I know there is no street that you can drive that fast on (yes a race course but that is a little different, just as race cars aren't street legal). I see the point on 151 booze but that doesn't help commit mass killings (well that I know of) and what the **** does 40,000 square foot homes have to do with it. As far as I know they don't kill people.

Also methamphetamines are illegal unless prescribed. In fact you will get a longer sentence for dealing Methamphetamines in many states then for selling an illegal gun. Just saying.

And yeah you can drive that fast on any street you choose, there are just laws to attempt to stop you. Same as there are laws against killing people.

 

[cody1smith]

Its all things that we dont really need.

 

[Downinthebend]

Agreed, but it isn't particularly difficult to drive from Chicago to either MI, WI or IN and buy a gun. Laws only help if they are uniform otherwise it is like trying to **** on a fire to put it out.

... So people are willing to obtain thing and break laws why would that be any different if all of america had the laws? Because its a little harder to obtain? Newsflash: people with bad intentions can acquire things that are banned.

The constitution says the right to bear arms shall not be infringed. If we want to change that lets propose a constitutional amendment. We should also ban long kitchen knifes, and any other thing that can be used harmfully while we're at it. Cars are pretty dangerous.

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

And yeah you can drive that fast on any street you choose, there are just laws to attempt to stop you. Same as there are laws against killing people.

The car example is ridiculous. A car when used as intended gets you from place to place. A gun when used as intended kills something and far too often it is a person who is killed by a gun.

 

[DomerInHappyValley]

As it has been said before, we need intelligent gun regulation. Making the fines, penalties and associated jail/prison time EXTREMELY harsh would make people take their ownership of these guns more serious.

Neighbor kid steals your hangun out of your bedside dresser and robs a convenience store? Guess what? YOU are going to prison. Shoot yourself on accident (like a certain NFL player)? Guess what?... you go to jail.

The happy medium is strict control, imo. People will find guns, people will find other ways to harm people. But if we create a culture that gun control is a significant responsibility, then people will start taking it seriously. As I mentioned before, we live in a time where our constitution (right to bare arms) is conflicting with the declaration of independence (life, liberty & happiness). Instead of knee-jerk reactions in either direction, we need to come together and have some intelligent conversations on how to actually change behavior. This starts with regulation, but also includes education, planning and changes in how media portrays these incidents.

The reality is that guns allow people to kill on a large scale. Are they the root of the problem? Probably not, but they are making the people that are doing these horrendous crimes way more effective in their pursuits. Doing nothing wont fix the problem, and don't kid yourself, this is a problem.

wooly why should someone go to jail for being a victim

 

[Downinthebend]

The car example is ridiculous. A car when used as intended gets you from place to place. A gun when used as intended kills something and far too often it is a person who is killed by a gun.

My gun is intended to kill paper. Why should the intent of it matter? Cars are intended to move from place to place but too often kill people. Long kitchen knifes are intended to create delicious meals but can be used to kill people.

 

[jimmymac]

I agree it is not the same or not even close. But where does it end. We cant just keeping raising taxes and creating new laws. Its a very sad world we live in that kids are getting shot in schools. but crazy *** people are always gonna do crazy *** things. No matter what.

Raising taxes and creating new gun laws have nothing to do with each other. Just because they are both components of the democratic doesn't mean they have anything to do with each other. Taxes and socialism are completely different issues than that of gun control. I am a registered Republican and vote with the Republican party. But these issues are completely different.

I have tried to keep my cool and will attempt to make this post as most respectful as possible. Crazy people can't do crazy *** things if they don't have the ability to get their hands on MILITARY style guns. What the **** do people need military weapons for?? They are built and really only good for killing people.

Even if the implemented gun laws were required classes that served as information of gun safety, or more complete background checks, it would be a start.

 

[cody1smith]

I'm not implying that cars kill people or that it is the same I was saying that why make cars go faster than 70 mph? if your gonna ban magazines for ar 15 rifles only hold 14 rounds there is no end to the discussion.

 

[DomerInHappyValley]

My gun is intended to kill paper. Why should the intent of it matter? Cars are intended to move from place to place but too often kill people. Long kitchen knifes are intended to create delicious meals but can be used to kill people.

Mine is intended to get me delicious venison.

 

[Downinthebend]

I'm not implying that cars kill people or that it is the same I was saying that why make cars go faster than 70 mph? if your gonna ban magazines for ar 15 rifles only hold 14 rounds there is no end to the discussion.

You're not implying that cars kill people?....

 

[Downinthebend]

Mine is intended to get me delicious venison.

The long kitchen knife?