Manti vs Manziel

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Grahambo

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Somebody help me out here:

Michael Kim ‏@MKimESPN
Johnny Manziel just said on @Sportscenter that he has resisted sharing info about Bama with Manti Te'o out of respect, loyalty to the #SEC.

Out of loyalty to his conference? Huh?
 

UHCoogs

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If Bama beats ND. A&M will add another title to there list since they beat Bama. That's how they think.
 

RallySonsOfND

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A9htEj6CQAAaLiH.jpg:large

They were flown coach? Lame
 

WakeUpEchoes

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Somebody help me out here:

Michael Kim ‏@MKimESPN
Johnny Manziel just said on @Sportscenter that he has resisted sharing info about Bama with Manti Te'o out of respect, loyalty to the #SEC.

Out of loyalty to his conference? Huh?

He's not going to say "yeah, I told him everything about the defense." I guarantee he said some stuff.
 

AmarilloAg

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I've been lurking on here for a few days and decided to register and throw in my two cents.

1. The competition between Manziel and Manti is bringing out the worst in a lot of people on both sides. I grew up in an Aggie family. My dad went there, my older brothers went there, and I followed suit. I always had respect for ND as a university and as a football program.
2. I believe that JFF deserves the Heisman, and I'm fairly sure I'd think that even if I was a neutral observer. From the few ND games that I've watched, Manti is a heck of an athlete and leader and I can see why he is being given consideration, but at the end of the day I honestly believe that the performances put on by JFF can't and won't be ignored.
3. The SEC isn't overrated, and I honestly believe that will be proven when ND loses to Alabama. I'm not saying that because I have some intense desire to see ND get smeared, but I root for my new conference and I honestly believe that Bama has the better team.
4. Don't believe for one second that A&M fans are unfriendly or trashy, especially coming from a Tech fan. Honestly, I attended two away games in Lubbock and at both I was really appalled by the behavior of the fans. I have some dear friends who are great people who went to Tech, but for some reason, largely due to the fact that it is fairly easy to get into, compared to A&M and UT, the student body has a lot of morons with no class. Getting heckled and trash talked is one thing, but having things thrown at you, being cussed at, spit on, and threatened is something totally different and way over the line. At least we're "the enemy", but when I saw the way that Tech "fans" treat their own players, it really made me sad for them. Like I mentioned, it isn't all Tech people, but a very large group of their students.
5. Texas A&M has a friendly and interesting atmosphere, for the most part. I've been to a lot of home games, and very rarely heard any of our fans taking trash talk to away fans too far. The few times that that did happen, I remember hearing our own people telling the idiot to shut up. Like ND, we have a lot of great traditions and our fans are extremely loyal. We don't leave games when our team is down (trust me, we were down A LOT when I was there as a student '02-'06), we don't boo our own players, and we rally behind our team.
6. The "red headed stepchild of UT" theory is partially correct. For so long in our school's history they were a large university and we were a smaller, all male, military school, so in the beginning of our rivalry we were the underdog in every sense and only since the 70's or so have we reached somewhat level status. I think I speak for a lot of Aggies when I say that we have just felt frustrated from the Francione-Sherman years that we should have been better, and could have been better, but just weren't. We have had pretty much all the making of a great program--except for coaches and team leaders who can do what it takes to have us play to our highest potential...until this season. This season it all just clicked. With Sumlin, Kingsbury, JFF, and a lot of largely unsung heroes on the team, we finally stepped up and played up to our potential. Had we gotten the chance to play UT this year, we would have destroyed them.
7. Respect to your school, your players, and your season. I look forward to Manziel winning the Heisman and the SEC coming out on top in the MNC, but even so, I still hold ND in high regards. A few blowhards from Texags do not represent what Aggies are like in general, trust me on that.
 

strongj23

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Te'o detractors have commented that his stats sheet (Outside of the INTs) doesn't even show him to be the best LB in the country this year, let alone some previous years where defenders didn't go to New York. I've countered that Te'o is leading the #1 defense on the #1 team, and that they do a good job of getting offenses off the field resulting in less plays. If you look at the previous two years in comparison, this team is averaging 8 less plays a game.

The other comments I've seen is that Manti's highlights are 30 seconds long and involve him running around/cheering a lot. I counter that a fast defensive stop or goal line stand only takes one second...scrambling around for 20 seconds against poor tackling is easy to make a long highlight tape about :laugh:

The reality is this. It's an offensive award. I wish someone had the scruples to admit that. Manti came away with the hardware that applies to him. The defensive awards. What ashame. He deserves to cap this year off with football's highest honor. Oh yeah, he will... The National Championship!!!!! Go Irish!
 

timm3117

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Dat Nguyen - Senior - Texas A&M - MLB - 1998
147 total tackles
20 tackles for loss
4 sacks
4 forced fumbles
2 fumbles recovered
4 ints

Manti Te'o - Senior - Notre Dame - MLB - 2012
103 total tackles
5.5 for loss
1.5 sacks
0 forced fumbles
2 fumbles recovered
7 interceptions
HMM...

I saw Dat play, and he was not even in the same ball park as Manti. Te'o is the defensive captain on the #1 defense in the country.
 

IrishinSyria

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At the end of the day, those of us who believe Manti should win the Heisman believe he brings far more to the table than any stat sheet could ever show... he is the beating heart of the only undefeated major college team this year. I wouldn't expect anybody who hasn't watched Notre Dame closely for the past 5+ years to understand what Manti Te'o brings to the table, but for those of us who have, it's clear that he is one of the all time greats in college football history. His play on the field this year was incredible, his stat line is phenomenal for a middle linebacker, and he was the lynchpin of the best defense in college football, yet to sell him on that list alone is to wildly understate his importance.

Te'o is one of those once in a lifetime players who, almost single-handidly, changed the culture of an organization in decline. The Irish have had some great players and firey leaders in the past 10 years (Claussen, Tate, Floyd, Rudolph, Quinn, Samardzija) yet each of them, in the end, was individually great and failed to get the team to buy into each other. Quinn was a great talent and a firey leader, and in many ways he reminds me of Manziel. Yet even Brady Quinn did not have the impact of Te'o.

In the end, Te'o will likely be punished by Heisman voters for his success. On a defense where the running back rarely penetrates the d-line, a middle line backer has fewer opportunities to make tackles, this is amplified when the d is causing 3 and outs on a regular basis and the offense controls time of possession with a dominant running attack. Manti was such a great leader that the Irish really didn't need him to perform on the field: he'd lead the rest of the team to a point where they could dominate any opponent. And yet perform he did, and with clock-like regularity Te'o was there to make the big play when his team needed their leader to make a stop.

Manziel is bursting with talent and will be a great college ball player. But he has a long way to go before he equals the impact of Manti Te'o, one of college football's all-time greats.
 
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PraetorianND

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I hope my son is like Manti when he grows up.
 
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NDinFL

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I've been lurking on here for a few days and decided to register and throw in my two cents.

1. The competition between Manziel and Manti is bringing out the worst in a lot of people on both sides. I grew up in an Aggie family. My dad went there, my older brothers went there, and I followed suit. I always had respect for ND as a university and as a football program.
2. I believe that JFF deserves the Heisman, and I'm fairly sure I'd think that even if I was a neutral observer. From the few ND games that I've watched, Manti is a heck of an athlete and leader and I can see why he is being given consideration, but at the end of the day I honestly believe that the performances put on by JFF can't and won't be ignored.
3. The SEC isn't overrated, and I honestly believe that will be proven when ND loses to Alabama. I'm not saying that because I have some intense desire to see ND get smeared, but I root for my new conference and I honestly believe that Bama has the better team.
4. Don't believe for one second that A&M fans are unfriendly or trashy, especially coming from a Tech fan. Honestly, I attended two away games in Lubbock and at both I was really appalled by the behavior of the fans. I have some dear friends who are great people who went to Tech, but for some reason, largely due to the fact that it is fairly easy to get into, compared to A&M and UT, the student body has a lot of morons with no class. Getting heckled and trash talked is one thing, but having things thrown at you, being cussed at, spit on, and threatened is something totally different and way over the line. At least we're "the enemy", but when I saw the way that Tech "fans" treat their own players, it really made me sad for them. Like I mentioned, it isn't all Tech people, but a very large group of their students.
5. Texas A&M has a friendly and interesting atmosphere, for the most part. I've been to a lot of home games, and very rarely heard any of our fans taking trash talk to away fans too far. The few times that that did happen, I remember hearing our own people telling the idiot to shut up. Like ND, we have a lot of great traditions and our fans are extremely loyal. We don't leave games when our team is down (trust me, we were down A LOT when I was there as a student '02-'06), we don't boo our own players, and we rally behind our team.
6. The "red headed stepchild of UT" theory is partially correct. For so long in our school's history they were a large university and we were a smaller, all male, military school, so in the beginning of our rivalry we were the underdog in every sense and only since the 70's or so have we reached somewhat level status. I think I speak for a lot of Aggies when I say that we have just felt frustrated from the Francione-Sherman years that we should have been better, and could have been better, but just weren't. We have had pretty much all the making of a great program--except for coaches and team leaders who can do what it takes to have us play to our highest potential...until this season. This season it all just clicked. With Sumlin, Kingsbury, JFF, and a lot of largely unsung heroes on the team, we finally stepped up and played up to our potential. Had we gotten the chance to play UT this year, we would have destroyed them.
7. Respect to your school, your players, and your season. I look forward to Manziel winning the Heisman and the SEC coming out on top in the MNC, but even so, I still hold ND in high regards. A few blowhards from Texags do not represent what Aggies are like in general, trust me on that.

WHAT THE **** IS WITH THIS CONFERENCE LOYALTY BULLSHIT??

So, lets say that next season the entire SEC runs a non-lubed train session on aTm, and the Aggies go winless in the conference...

Would you knuckle draggers still be chanting "SEC! SEC!" As Mizzou beats you to end your season?

I mean really....
 

ulukinatme

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WHAT THE **** IS WITH THIS CONFERENCE LOYALTY BULLSHIT??

So, lets say that next season the entire SEC runs a non-lubed train session on aTm, and the Aggies go winless in the conference...

Would you knuckle draggers still be chanting "SEC! SEC!" As Mizzou beats you to end your season?

I mean really....

Conference loyalty exists where people are more concerned with the perception of their own quality wins, so they pull for their conference when possible even if it means cheering for a rival. I can understand wanting to be a part of a strong conference. A lot of fans tend to pull for their conference and/or division despite rivalries or how bad the school may or may not beat them later in the season. Look at the Big 10 this year. Does Minnesota's or Purdue's 6-6 record reflect similarly matched teams against 7-5 USC or Arizona? ACC is another example. What about 8-4 Mississippi State vs 8-4 North Carolina or 7-5 Miami? In either of these cases I wouldn't consider the ACC or Big 10 to match up as well against the SEC or PAC10. In fact, among the games I can think of, PAC 10 and SEC won most of their matchups against Big 10 and ACC, I'd have to go back and check though.

In any case, I would never root for a rival unless we were in a close position late in the year, we couldn't do anything to lift our ranking, and we needed an opponent like Michigan or USC to win and knock off someone in front of us. I've only had to root for a rival a few times like this, and it kind of makes me a little sick. As far as I'm concerned, I could care less about our SoS most years, Michigan can go 0-12 and I would enjoy every minute of it :laugh:
 

AgentJ

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1. The competition between Manziel and Manti is bringing out the worst in a lot of people on both sides.

Just the Aggie side my friend.

You should be here when a prospect's mother is on and her son decommits. Fun fun fun.
 

IrishinSyria

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I would root for Michigan, Sparty, B.C . Stanford (with pleasure), navy (same), and even USC (maybe not USC until Kiffin gets fired) against most teams in the country in a Bowl. And I always root against the SEC. I want the south to try to secede again just so I can invade it because of how much I hate the SEC.
 

ulukinatme

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I would root for Michigan, Sparty, B.C . Stanford (with pleasure), navy (same), and even USC (maybe not USC until Kiffin gets fired) against most teams in the country in a Bowl. And I always root against the SEC. I want the south to try to secede again just so I can invade it because of how much I hate the SEC.

I find many things wrong with this statment...except maybe the Navy part. It should be illegal to root for Michigan. Some countries/states make bad children sit in the corner with a Michigan hat on when they've been bad. Just ask Roby Toma :laugh:
 
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Bogtrotter07

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I find many things wrong with this statment...except maybe the Navy part. It should be illegal to root for Michigan. Some countries/states make bad children sit in the corner with a Michigan hat on when they've been bad. Just ask Roby Toma :laugh:

Dude, that was so funny, did you see the look on his fathers face like HE was going to get punished for spilling the beans?
 

phork

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I've been lurking on here for a few days and decided to register and throw in my two cents.


2. I believe that JFF deserves the Heisman, and I'm fairly sure I'd think that even if I was a neutral observer. From the few ND games that I've watched, Manti is a heck of an athlete and leader and I can see why he is being given consideration, but at the end of the day I honestly believe that the performances put on by JFF can't and won't be ignored.

Except when he lost to Florida and LSU. Manti performed at a high level in every game.

3. The SEC isn't overrated, and I honestly believe that will be proven when ND loses to Alabama. I'm not saying that because I have some intense desire to see ND get smeared, but I root for my new conference and I honestly believe that Bama has the better team.

No one said they were over rated, however when you load up on FCS, it doesn't have to be.


7. Respect to your school, your players, and your season. I look forward to Manziel winning the Heisman and the SEC coming out on top in the MNC, but even so, I still hold ND in high regards. A few blowhards from Texags do not represent what Aggies are like in general, trust me on that.

Much like every other big game we weren't supposed to win, I think you and everyone else is going to be shocked. We might not win the game, but its not going to be a blowout. I envision a 6-3 type game since both strengths on offense and defense come down to running the ball and stopping the run. I was so unbelievably happy when Alabama made it to the game, because when we win we'll do it vs the gold standard. The standard by which people say could beat a bad NFL team.. But I also know that if we win, it will be a fluke, bad officiating or some other lame excuse.

You can have your Heisman, Manti is already the most decorated college football player ever in the history of college football. We'll play for National Championships. Enjoy being the sometimes 3rd best and mostly 4th or 5th best team in the SEC.

The reality is this. It's an offensive award. I wish someone had the scruples to admit that. Manti came away with the hardware that applies to him. The defensive awards. What ashame. He deserves to cap this year off with football's highest honor. Oh yeah, he will... The National Championship!!!!! Go Irish!

Exactly. And as far as stats, Manziel isn't even the best QB statistically speaking.

21st in total yards.
19th in passing yards per game.
17th in passing efficiency.
 

NavyAG

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As an Ag, I wanted to post in response to a few things that I read on this board.

1. The fan base that you are seeing who is acting ridiculous is on the free boards on TexAgs... those of us on the Premium boards call that the "Zoo" for a reason.

2. Those that were saying JFF simply ran up his numbers against poor competition are misinformed. In the games that we put away by the half (with the exception of Missouri), JFF was sitting on the bench no later than after the first offensive series in the 3rd quarter. Therefore, the numbers that he put up this season were in about 7 or 8 quarters less than the 12 games he has actually played in.

3. The individual that said Keenum played in the Cotton Bowl last season is wrong, the Cotton Bowl is played between the SEC and Big XII, UH is CUSA.

4. Teo is a great person to represent your University, and it is hard to judge a purely defensive player because you cannot look simply at stats due to teams running away from the individual, etc.

5. JFF played well all season, and was one of the main reasons that our team was 10-2 in the SEC this season (see last years A&M team that had the same offensive tackles, wide receivers, running backs (Malena and Michaels), and a 1st round QB).

6. JFF is a VERY humble guy who made a mistake in the offseason. Someone started crap with one of his teammates and he stepped in to defend them. When the police arrived they found that he had a fake ID on him. The situation was handled by the coaching staff during the offseason.

7. Johnny Manziel for Heisman shows his stats for the season. Regardless of how you feel, you cannot say that what he has done isn't impressive.
 

woolybug25

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Here's another tidbit. The overall record of teams that TAMU beat is 66/53. That means the average record of the teams Manziel stacked these stats on is 55%.
 

Irish Insanity

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Manti as a person and player is the Hiesman in their own definition. But knowing it's very unlikely he wins, I kinda wish he skipped the presentation and was home practicing with this rest of the team.
 
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PraetorianND

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Thayer Evans
1. Manti Te'o
2. Collin Klein
3. Jordan Lynch
Te'o has been a saint during Notre Dame's miracle season. He is the best player on the nation's top scoring defense and has been an inspiration for all in overcoming the deaths of his grandmother and girlfriend during a 24-hour period in September. Unfortunately, Te'o won't win the Heisman Trophy, but he embodies everything the award's winner should be both on and off the field. As for Klein: So what if he seems boring; so what if Tim Tebow makes him look prude? In Tebow-esque fashion, Klein carried his team this season and did so perhaps more than any other player in college football. And complain all you want about Lynch, but he has Northern Illinois in a BCS bowl for the first time and leads the FBS in rushing. Both of those facts are impressive, but not nearly as impressive as Lynch leading the Huskies through wild and crazy MACtion undefeated this season. And yes, I realize I don't have Texas A&M quarterback Johnny Manziel on my ballot. I don't consider players with pending criminal charges, and Manziel still faces three counts relating to an early morning fight in June. Manziel has been spectacular, but when he wins the Heisman on Saturday night, he should give it away -- to coach Kevin Sumlin and offensive coordinator Kliff Kingsbury, for being the best at their positions this season, for implementing Texas A&M's high-powered scheme and for standing by Manziel.

Johnny Manziel earns most Sports Illustrated Heisman Trophy votes - NCAA Football - SI.com

Nailed it.
 

WaveDomer

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Maybe they should wait until after the National Championship game. Then, you know, Golson could win it because he beat 'Bama.
 
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Grahambo

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2. Those that were saying JFF simply ran up his numbers against poor competition are misinformed. In the games that we put away by the half (with the exception of Missouri), JFF was sitting on the bench no later than after the first offensive series in the 3rd quarter. Therefore, the numbers that he put up this season were in about 7 or 8 quarters less than the 12 games he has actually played in.


3. The individual that said Keenum played in the Cotton Bowl last season is wrong, the Cotton Bowl is played between the SEC and Big XII, UH is CUSA.

Johnny Manziel Stats, Splits - Texas A&M Aggies - ESPN

Look at his stats when the A&M is up 22 or more then look at the stats when A&M is losing. Look at Final Margin as well.

That was me and I meant Liberty Bowl but it was played at the Cotton Bowl. Regardless, the stats still stand.
 

PJWhitfield

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Three quality opponents and we know how Johnny Football did: loss to Florida which held him to zero points in the second half; loss to LSU which intercepted him three times and held him to 27 yards rushing in 17 attempts; and a win over Alabama which was a good performance for Johnny Football but the A&M defense actually won the game-- goal line stand from six yards out. Of A&M's nine other opponents only three had a winning season. The sportwriters blew it. Do these guys ever look at context?
 

STLDomer

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“@darrenrovell: Heisman winner’s response to sitting in $700 seat at Mavs game RT @JManziel2: Bought myself a little birthday present tonight stop hating!”
 
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johnnykillz

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“@darrenrovell: Heisman winner’s response to sitting in $700 seat at Mavs game RT @JManziel2: Bought myself a little birthday present tonight stop hating!”

Here is how he will crumble what there is of the A&M program.

"Perks."

Bush had them too.
 

ndfi78

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His parents are in oil & gas, I doubt they are hurting for money.
 
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