U.S. Olympic Athlete - Mexican Flag?

RuntheBall

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Haha I love how this just gets out now- I mean he medaled 3 days ago.

First off I'd like to start with a huge congrats to Leo- he really is a class act in everything he does. A great gentlemen. Winning a medal of any kind was a HUGE HUGE HUGE upset. It was unlikely he would even make the final, and once he was definitely only 8th-11th best in the field of 12. Normally, their aren't that many upsets- the best normally win. I mean for goodness sakes he ran 4:01.7 for a mile about a month before the Olympics (for comparison the top guys had run 3:48-3:50 for the mile. 11 seconds is just sooooo huge- given it wasn't Manzano's best race). Manzano was the last automatic qualifier fin the prelims(6th) then the 2nd to last auto in the weaker of the two Semi's (4th). To end up with silver is incomprehensible. He won the first medal in the 1500m since Jim Ryun. Crazy. (Also Mexico has never won a men's track and field record on the track. They only have one woman's medal, 400m from 2004). Manzano is also 5' 5"- hardly an imposing figure. His success is very surprising because of how short his legs are.

Alright, so that had nothing to do with carrying to flags. But its important. Why?

First because he was probably so overcome with emotion (despite what he says I doubt even he thought he had a shot at the medals), he probably wasn't thinking to much about anything right after that was over.

Second: it shows that any ethnicity can compete with the Kenyans/ East/ North Africans with enough work. (Even if it is less common). That has been huge this Olympics. A REAL (edit; means not Kenyan Americans, not in reference to Manzano) American was 2nd in the 10000m (Galen Rupp) and we had to in the top 4 in the 1500m (Matt Centrowitz was the other in 4th), and at least 2 in every distance final (something only Kenya can also say). Distance running isn't just Africa any more, and Manzano want's to show Mexico (and those of Mexican heritage) can compete as well. Remember not too long ago (and some still do) say that the East African's are genetically superior to everyone else as it regards to distance running.

Thats without going into politics. Of course, Leo could have been trying to promote Mexican Americans (who are certainly discriminated against).

ALOT of Leo's family (cousins, aunts, uncle, granparents, etc.) are still in Mexico. He is representing them as well. They have supported him through it all. When he steps on the track he isn't just representing USA or USATF- they only support him 2-3 times EVERY FOUR YEARS. I mean he loves the US but they don't support him nearly as much as his family does. (The US, and USATF in particular, does a horrific job supporting their athletes).

Also the process of getting the flags for the victory lap makes it less of a deal to me. I mean a group of fans just handed Leo their flags, what is he going to do give them back the Mexican flag and insult his native country and ancestry? He didn't really have too much of an option- and he did keep the American flag much more prominent throughout.

One final point is some of you said if you won a medal you would do a lap with your ancestors flags either. I know I wouldn't either. But none of us (I think) are 1.) dual citizens 2.) born in another country. In addition none of our countries (again generalizing here) are discriminated against as much as Mexicans- Americans. I would compare it to Irish Americans back in the early 1900's- they really identified with their heritage, many were immigrants, and were discriminated against. I think this created a real tight community among Irish Americans (now Mexican Americans).

Personally I have no problem with it, because, in my mind, he represents America, but also himself and his family. (and he made it clear America was the more prominent of the two)
 
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AvesEvo

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Very true...but he's a part of a team.

And nice argument. Maybe we should take this to every single topic on recruits on here and just shut it all down. That'd be fun, right?

Gimmie a break.

Good point, but I care much more about ND football than the Olympics so what these athletes do doesn't really impact me like the good ol' fightin' Irish do. I mean, I would give all the medals that the US team won this year for a national championship.
 

irishpat183

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It's amazing that this is even a discussion...he's on THE UNITED STATES OLYMPIC TEAM for goddsakes.

LOL......
 

irishpat183

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Good point, but I care much more about ND football than the Olympics so what these athletes do doesn't really impact me like the good ol' fightin' Irish do. I mean, I would give all the medals that the US team won this year for a national championship.

AIN'T THAT THE TRUTH!!


In a f**king heartbeat. LOL
 

Who'saWildManNow

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Does anybody expect to see Aaron Lynch waving an ND flag after USF comes in 2nd place?

Am I right when I say you are assuming that this Olympian meant to disrespect the US by holding a Mexican flag while wearing an American? That it was his intent to devalue the flag?

I really just don't think he had malicious intent and that it's not that hot of an issue.
 

WaveDomer

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I find it difficult to have any bad feeling about this. The Olympics are always filled with sportsmanship between countries. It's not comparable to a professional sports league example like Roger Clemens winning the WS with the Yankees but bringing out a Red Sox mini pennant.

I don't think he was being disrespectful. He's proud of his heritage. I don't know anything about the guy, but maybe he has family in Mexico still. Who knows? It's not like the guy spit on the American flag or speaks badly about America. This is part of what is great about America. At it's best it gives opportunity and is a beacon. We are a mixed nation. And just because you left somewhere because it didn't provide you the best opportunities, doesn't mean you should have no pride in that place.
 

Emcee77

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You guys miss the point...if he wants to honor his mexican heritage, he should be on the mexican olympic team.

The olympics isn't about honoring heritage, but about countries competing to see who has the best athletes. He is an American now. America has given him the great life that he has.

I never understood why some would flee a country because of the way they are treated or lack of opportunity...only to turn around and wave it's flag as if to be proud of the place they bascially escaped from.

I just want to make clearer the point I was trying to make earlier about this. A huge part of the population of the United States is made up of Mexican-Americans. Many of these people are poor and feel marginalized (i.e., like they are not real citizens, even those that have been naturalized or were born here, and aren't wanted here). When they see Manzano on the TV screen, a Mexican American like them, it gives them hope and makes them feel like, even though they are Mexican, they are also American. He represents this country as a whole, but in particular he represents the Mexican-American community of recent Mexican extraction ... he is one of them. I don't see anything wrong with him holding a Mexican flag as a message to them that they too can represent the U.S. in the Olympics and win medals for the United States. The gesture isn't just about him; it's about the American people--all of them. The Olympics is absolutely about sending athletes to compete and represent your country. As I see it waving a Mexican flag along with an American flag just recognizes all the Mexican-Americans in the United States.

I do have a problem, as I said above, with the notion that he represents Mexico. He represents the United States and only the United States. But there are a lot of Mexican-Americans in the United States, and he represents them in a special way that non-Mexican-American athletes don't, and there's nothing wrong with recognizing that.
 
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nin05

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It's not a big deal. Who cares? The media must be getting really bored...
 

Veer option

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Does not matter to me since I don't get butthurt at the littlest of things.
 

irishpat183

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I just want to make clearer the point I was trying to make earlier about this. A huge part of the population of the United States is made up of Mexican-Americans. Many of these people are poor and feel marginalized (i.e., like they are not real citizens, even those that have been naturalized or were born here, and aren't wanted here). When they see Manzano on the TV screen, a Mexican American like them, it gives them hope and makes them feel like, even though they are Mexican, they are also American. He represents this country as a whole, but in particular he represents the Mexican-American community of recent Mexican extraction ... he is one of them. I don't see anything wrong with him holding a Mexican flag as a message to them that they too can represent the U.S. in the Olympics and win medals for the United States.

I do have a problem, as I said above, with the notion that he represents Mexico. He represents the United States and only the United States. But there are a lot of Mexican-Americans in the United States, and he represents them in a special way that non-Mexican-American athletes don't, and there's nothing wrong with recognizing that.

Oh, I know why he did it.....I'm just saying I disagree. All that a mexican american needs is to see him on tv in our colors having success. He doesn't need to hold up a mexican flag to show that mexican Americans can do it, proof is watching him run.

During the games, you're competing for America.
 
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Pachuco

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Oh, I know why he did it.....I'm just saying I disagree. All that a mexican american needs is to see him on tv in our colors having success. He doesn't need to hold up a mexican flag to show that mexican Americans can do it, proof is watching him run.

During the games, you're competing for America.

A "mexican american" saw it, and it was beautiful.
 
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PraetorianND

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Using the ellipses was enough to donate your thoughts, using the sarcasm font just makes it look imbecillic.

fixed
 
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WaveDomer

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I'm just not getting how he was disrespectful to America. I'm not seeing it.
 

RuntheBall

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I agree with much of what Emcee has said. To go along with what he said, and add to my thoughts, I'd just like to throw out the example of David Rudisha, the Kenyan 800 world record holder and Gold Medalist. "King David" is a member of the Masai tribe- not the tribe of most Kenyan runners. When he went to the Games it was clear it was representing Kenya, but also his Masai people. He makes that much clear in his post race interview with NBC. He represents the country as a whole, but also a smaller subset of the population as well. Just like Billy Mills in Tokyo, Tommie Smith and John Carlos (alright maybe this was more political, or at least it was made into that), and Rudisha, Manzano represents the US, but also a smaller subset of the population- the Mexican- American community.
 

k1ssme1m1r1sh

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Well I think that a child coming here from an impoverished nation to achieve his dreams and US citizenship, he deserves the right to fly both flags. He lives here and trained here but I am sure he still has family and roots in mexico. Besides he is here LEGALLY, and he helped the US get another medal.

The only reason this gets any attention is because he's an Olympian. There are people who live here, that moved from the south when they were little and they fly a confederate flag like a big dummy. No one cares about that because it's not on TV.
 

anarin

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Doesn't offend me, but I think it shouldn't have been done.
 

NDBoiler

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Well I think that a child coming here from an impoverished nation to achieve his dreams and US citizenship, he deserves the right to fly both flags. He lives here and trained here but I am sure he still has family and roots in mexico. Besides he is here LEGALLY, and he helped the US get another medal.

The only reason this gets any attention is because he's an Olympian. There are people who live here, that moved from the south when they were little and they fly a confederate flag like a big dummy. No one cares about that because it's not on TV.

I think that's the key point that some of the opposing viewpoint have. The Olympics is about representing a particular country, not about the individual's glory.

There was another article on Yahoo (I can't find it now, dang it) that talked about this very thing as well as referencing some sentiments from members of the Mexican American community who strongly disagreed with Manzano's decision. It seemed as if they were actually offended by it, perhaps because they or their family members have struggled to better their lives and enjoy the opportunities they have in the US after leaving trying conditions in Mexico. This brings a whole different aspect to the debate I think, and juxtaposes the implication of racism for those who may not be Mexicn American and still disagree with Manzano's decision. Just trying to express a differing point of view.

Edit: Just found the article I referenced. Here it is: American athlete under fire for carrying Mexican flag | Fourth-Place Medal - Yahoo! Sports
 
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WaveDomer

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Not that he was disrespectful, but it was just bad form.

The referenced article talks of respect. In terms of "bad form," I don't know. Being an Olympian takes an incredible amount of dedication. As far as I know, correct me if I'm wrong, the US government does not support our Olympians financially. So usually the family is spending a lot of money, in addition to time, making it happen. As long as he is respectful to America, which by all accounts he was, and acts as part of the United States team, which by all accounts he has, he can celebrate his heritage and I have no problem.
 

NDBoiler

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The referenced article talks of respect. In terms of "bad form," I don't know. Being an Olympian takes an incredible amount of dedication. As far as I know, correct me if I'm wrong, the US government does not support our Olympians financially. So usually the family is spending a lot of money, in addition to time, making it happen. As long as he is respectful to America, which by all accounts he was, and acts as part of the United States team, which by all accounts he has, he can celebrate his heritage and I have no problem.

You are partially correct. The governement doesnt provide any funding, but the USOC does offer athletes extensive training facilities at various locations around the country as well as "funds and support staff to elite athletes" per Wikipedia.
 

irishpat183

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I think that's the key point that some of the opposing viewpoint have. The Olympics is about representing a particular country, not about the individual's glory.

There was another article on Yahoo (I can't find it now, dang it) that talked about this very thing as well as referencing some sentiments from members of the Mexican American community who strongly disagreed with Manzano's decision. It seemed as if they were actually offended by it, perhaps because they or their family members have struggled to better their lives and enjoy the opportunities they have in the US after leaving trying conditions in Mexico. This brings a whole different aspect to the debate I think, and juxtaposes the implication of racism for those who may not be Mexicn American and still disagree with Manzano's decision. Just trying to express a differing point of view.

Edit: Just found the article I referenced. Here it is: American athlete under fire for carrying Mexican flag | Fourth-Place Medal - Yahoo! Sports

That's exactly what I was saying in prior post....why celebrate heritage of a country that you fled because of conditions and lack of opportunity?

And he was 4 when he left. I'd understand it if he was older and actually built some real memories and ties....Granted, he was born there...but come on, 4 years old and he feels he has strong enough ties to wave their flag at the olympic games?
 

irishpat183

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You are partially correct. The governement doesnt provide any funding, but the USOC does offer athletes extensive training facilities at various locations around the country as well as "funds and support staff to elite athletes" per Wikipedia.

And besides....I'd like to see how our facilities and training staffs compare to those in his birth country.

I'm betting it's a little bit nicer over here.
 

WaveDomer

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You are partially correct. The governement doesnt provide any funding, but the USOC does offer athletes extensive training facilities at various locations around the country as well as "funds and support staff to elite athletes" per Wikipedia.

Yeah, but the USOC is funded through private donations and corporate sponsors, correct? I don't think the USOC is run by the government. It's just board members and employees running a non-profit.
 
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PraetorianND

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That's exactly what I was saying in prior post....why celebrate heritage of a country that you fled because of conditions and lack of opportunity?

And he was 4 when he left. I'd understand it if he was older and actually built some real memories and ties....Granted, he was born there...but come on, 4 years old and he feels he has strong enough ties to wave their flag at the olympic games?

I think your points are contradictory. No 4 year old is fleeing a country. So that means his parents brought him here when he was 4. Therefore, it really wasn't his choice to come here necessarily.

He could still have extremely strong ties to Mexico, I mean he is still a Mexican citizen.
 
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