Illegal Immigrant to get Law License?

[Irish Houstonian]

Preferring that co-workers speak your language, or that immigrants obey immigration laws, is not the same thing as being "racist".

 

[irishpat183]

Preferring that co-workers speak your language, or that immigrants obey immigration laws, is not the same thing as being "racist".

Watch out!!!! LA will call you a racist!!


Nothing like having to defend yourself against a guy that jumps in and picks and chooses pieces out of a paragraph worth of arguments to spin it into his own web of bullsh*t.


He should run for office out there in CA...LOL

 

[NDinL.A.]

Watch out!!!! LA will call you a racist!!


Nothing like having to defend yourself against a guy that jumps in and picks and chooses pieces out of a paragraph worth of arguments to spin it into his own web of bullsh*t.


He should run for office out there in CA...LOL

"WAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH! I got pwned by LA and now I'm taking my ball and going home!!! Oh wait, I already did that, so now I'll complain and complain and complain that I'm not a racist, even though I am!!!!"

Dude, newsflash Einstein...I don't even live in L.A. anymore, but really, really, really great try there, trying to use my location against me. Awesome job there Skippy!!!

Boy do I wish you would truly read what you wrote, and then what I wrote, and try your darndest to comprehend what I was saying, so we could have a true discussion that wouldn't be so one-sided. Unfortunately, your double-talk and backpedaling (damn, why couldn't you teach Gary Gray how to do that so well) only do a weak job of masking the fact that you are a really bad liar.

But hey, congrats on being the ONLY employer in Houston that can find documented Mexican-Americans to be well-paid in your janitorial company, considering that according to you the overwhelming majority of immigrants are too lazy to get their papers. It's great to know that these fine citizens work their butts off to become citizens, and since they are such good workers, they all choose to work for a racist in your janitorial company. I mean, why would any of them work elsewhere? Awesome!

 

[Bogtrotter07]

"WAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH! I got pwned by LA and now I'm taking my ball and going home!!! Oh wait, I already did that, so now I'll complain and complain and complain that I'm not a racist, even though I am!!!!"

I am sure glad I never got pwned by LA; I've heard it is very painfull!

 

[ACamp1900]

I am sure glad I never got pwned by LA; I've heard it is very painfull!

Could you imagine??? I'd would think that getting pwned by one guy would hurt... but pwned by an entire city!?!?! That's just crazy,... and L.A. to top it all off... with the amount of dirty immigrants they have over there you would be bound to catch something nasty.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

If you're ever owned by LA, watch out -- you might end up in the hands of creditors when it files Chapter 9 like Stockton and San Bernadino.

Then, who knows what the new owner will make you do...

 

[Bogtrotter07]

No, it's pwned. Much worse, owned is over when you die!

For god sake ACamp, they musta been standing in line for miles! Oh, the smell of burning flesh!

 

[BobD]

California Bar says he should get his license:

California bar: Illegal immigrant should get law license - U.S. News

Good for him. I hope they decide in his favor.

 

[Bluto]

What's with all the Cali bashing? Anyhow, for everyone out there who is curious why California is so screwed up financially it's because the dumb *** voters here approved the grand daddy of all anti-tax, stupid ***, GOP style legislation in the form of Prop 13 back in 1977. If you want to know more read Paradise Lost California's Experience Americas Future by Peter Schrag. You'll think the guy is Nostradamus. Anyhow, Mexican food proves Mexicans are awesome. Buy Rosetta Stone and get over it. Go Irish!

 

[In Lou I Trust]

After reading the last few pages I honestly forgot that this was about that immigrant trying to get his license.

BTW... all the Cali bashing is warranted. Place blows.

 

[Bluto]

BTW... all the Cali bashing is warranted. Place blows.

Come on get real. Califonia is one of if not the best state in the Nation hands down. Name any other State and I will tell you why California is better. Cali has produced more good bands than any other State by a mile (Santana, The Doors, Jefferson Starship, Black Flag, Social Distortion, Metallica, Slayer, The Beach Boys, Buck Owens, Merle Haggard, Tu Pac, Dr. Dre, NWA and on and on). It's home to two of best all time NFL franchises (Raiders and Niners), one of the best all time NBA franchises (Lakers). It's home to 3 storied baseball franchises (A's, Giants and Dodgers). Hell even one of the hockey teams is pretty good. It was the birth place of moutain biking, skateboarding and the first state outside of Hawaii to take to surfing. It's got better weather and better beaches than any other State. It's got the highest point in the contiguous US (Mount Whitney) and the lowest (Death Valley) and you can see one from the other. It was the birthplace of modern day computing, Apple and Google. On top of that it produced some of the best architects of the 20th century (Schindler and Nuetra among others). Finally, Cali has the best Mexican food for sure!

 

[Bogtrotter07]

They also pwned people in LA.

 

[irishog77]

Come on get real. Califonia is one of if not the best state in the Nation hands down. Name any other State and I will tell you why California is better. Cali has produced more good bands than any other State by a mile (Santana, The Doors, Jefferson Starship, Black Flag, Social Distortion, Metallica, Slayer, The Beach Boys, Buck Owens, Merle Haggard, Tu Pac, Dr. Dre, NWA and on and on). It's home to two of best all time NFL franchises (Raiders and Niners), one of the best all time NBA franchises (Lakers). It's home to 3 storied baseball franchises (A's, Giants and Dodgers). Hell even one of the hockey teams is pretty good. It was the birth place of moutain biking, skateboarding and the first state outside of Hawaii to take to surfing. It's got better weather and better beaches than any other State. It's got the highest point in the contiguous US (Mount Whitney) and the lowest (Death Valley) and you can see one from the other. It was the birthplace of modern day computing, Apple and Google. On top of that it produced some of the best architects of the 20th century (Schindler and Nuetra among others). Finally, Cali has the best Mexican food for sure!

Guess I'll go point by point:

Slayer?????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Laughable

Much of those "storied" baseball franchises "stories" happened...PRIOR to them going to CA

Better weather and beaches than any other state??????? I guess you forgot Hawaii was an actual state

Cali has the best Mexican food for sure-- I think some place called Mexico disagrees with you.

 

[NDinFL]

I just caught up on this thread.


NdinLA, keep up the good work

 

[Bogtrotter07]

How can you say a "state" has the best "Mexican" food?

Weather? The thing I like about California weather, as a third of the population lives in horific smog conditions, is that you can go from surf to snow in a matter of an hour or two.

If you want to talk about California being the "best" state, which one are you talking about? North or South. California is two totally different states.

Next to New York or New Jersey, (with Florida coming on strong in athletics), and maybe Texas, I have never seen such an egocentric defense presented by residents.

 

[autry_denson]

Watch out!!!! LA will call you a racist!!


Nothing like having to defend yourself against a guy that jumps in and picks and chooses pieces out of a paragraph worth of arguments to spin it into his own web of bullsh*t.


He should run for office out there in CA...LOL

Forget the term 'racist', which is hard enough to define that anyone can deny being one based on their own definitions. You threw out some ugly generalizations about a specific set of groups, even while suggesting that your own experiences contradict these ugly generalizations. You're fumbling all over yourself in the process. I don't think you'll take anyone's advice on this, but I wish you'd take a break, as you are making yourself and this site look bad.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

...You threw out some ugly generalizations about a specific set of groups...

I don't think they were "characterizations" as much as his observations. I don't think he was implying that all immigrants act in the manner he's observed.

And they were really about only one "group" -- immigrants. If they were "ugly" then I guess that just means the world is an ugly place.

To be sure, he very well may be Grand Wizard of Klan, but we can't necessarily tell that from these posts. Perhaps we can give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[irishpat183]

Of course it's most likely people that have never managed people or ran a business are the ones being most vocal. That's usually the case with this kinda thing. Leave it to someone who probably has no experience on the subject, to label you.

Unless you have, especially in my area of business (janitorial in the south), how would you know about dealing with hispanics (illegal or not) workers on a daily basis?

My generalzations may seem harsh, but that's what I deal with. And yes, I've become a bit hardened in my days on the subject and I don't pull punches. And I especially don't tolerate some clown calling me a racist.

Not to mention...I didn't make one racist comment. The sad thing is these days, really anything you say about another group of people, can be taken as "racist" by anyone else. And again, it's usually the d-bag that has no experience on the matter and is trained like A DOG to respond that way. "SEE !!! SEE!!! he said Hispanics....are.....all.....lazy......". Again, pick and choose.

Too bad if you took it that way.

 

[irishpat183]

What's with all the Cali bashing? Anyhow, for everyone out there who is curious why California is so screwed up financially it's because the dumb *** voters here approved the grand daddy of all anti-tax, stupid ***, GOP style legislation in the form of Prop 13 back in 1977. If you want to know more read Paradise Lost California's Experience Americas Future by Peter Schrag. You'll think the guy is Nostradamus. Anyhow, Mexican food proves Mexicans are awesome. Buy Rosetta Stone and get over it. Go Irish!

No. It's broke because you waste more money than anyother state on BS (I could list the asinine "social" programs, but it's not worth my time). Even if they increased their tax levels, highest in the country already, they'd still be broke. Not to mention, they spend over 13 billion a year on illegal immigrants.

Why is it always "anti-tax" crap? How about controlling your spending????? The problem isn't not taxing enough...it's that CA can't curb their spending enough to let the high tax rate do it's job! Raising taxes doesn't do a damn thing if you keep raising spending.

But hey! They have great weather!

 

[In Lou I Trust]

An example of the trash that comes from Cali:

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Officials-approve-study-of-SF-Bay-area-mileage-tax-3720583.php

 

[autry_denson]

Of course it's most likely people that have never managed people or ran a business are the ones being most vocal. That's usually the case with this kinda thing. Leave it to someone who probably has no experience on the subject, to label you.

Unless you have, especially in my area of business (janitorial in the south), how would you know about dealing with hispanics (illegal or not) workers on a daily basis?

My generalzations may seem harsh, but that's what I deal with. And yes, I've become a bit hardened in my days on the subject and I don't pull punches. And I especially don't tolerate some clown calling me a racist.

Not to mention...I didn't make one racist comment. The sad thing is these days, really anything you say about another group of people, can be taken as "racist" by anyone else. And again, it's usually the d-bag that has no experience on the matter and is trained like A DOG to respond that way. "SEE !!! SEE!!! he said Hispanics....are.....all.....lazy......". Again, pick and choose.

Too bad if you took it that way.

Some of your assumptions about me and other critics are wrong (I have managed a whole bunch of people, although you’re right that they are not all that ethnically diverse – and I do have experience starting a business), while others are right (I have spent almost my whole life in the northeast). And I get that your experiences affect how you see people – I have family who are cops in tough places who have developed rigid views on specific race/ethnic groups based on how they spend their days.

Just a few points:

Your points about illegal immigrants and about Hispanics are blurring into each other. If your comments pertain only to illegals, then your experience at your company is irrelevant.

If you want to make claims about illegal immigrants only, fine. In the south of the US, Mexican Americans and other Latin Americans coming north are the most common group of undocumented workers. Up here, there are a whole lot of undocumented workers from Asia and Africa and Europe. It’s not a problem that is specific to one ethnic group, despite what you see on a daily basis in Houston. Make sure you include the undocumented Irish who have been coming over here year after year to work as well. People go all over the world looking for better work to support their families – are they all bad people? I don’t think so, but that’s subjective.

So let’s get back to the problem of illegal workers in the south. They are breaking the law, you’re absolutely right. They come here to work because people hire them illegally – if people weren’t hiring them, they probably wouldn’t come. So you can blame them for coming here illegally in order to work, or you can blame those who hire them. A lot of other small-business owners down there are probably less diligent about checking documents than you seem to be. A third option is to blame the government – but if you really want the government to come in and regulate, then be prepared to have inspectors in your building making sure that every one of those legal workers you hire have all of their papers in order. And also get ready to start paying higher wages and offering better benefits, because that huge undocumented labor force drives down wages for the entire low-wage sector. Enforcement of immigration law would be a whole lot easier if it was done in workplaces rather than on the border - without jobs waiting for them, immigrants would not take such dramatic risks to cross the border (notice how immigration dropped in the downturn?). But there's a reason that workplace enforcement has never happened - it would drive a whole lot of people out of business.

Lastly, if you want to make claims about any group based on your experiences running your company, that’s a little more dicey. As you said, you consider a large chunk of your workers to be lazy, whether they’re Hispanic or American (your words). So the issue doesn’t seem to be about Hispanics, but may be about who is applying for work at a janitorial services company. Not saying this to be condescending in any way, but think hard about whether you can make broad conclusions about any group based on the people you manage. And if your complaints are about lazy workers in general, and not Hispanics, than present them as such. You are arguing about these problems as if they are specific to one ethnic group - this is not true, and it's part of what is pissing people off.

 

[Bluto]

Irish Pat California invented the anti tax crusade (see Howard Jarvis and Ronald Reagan). Again, Prop 13 (read about) screwed up the State in terms of being able to raise revenues in a responsible manner and on such a fundamental level it's hard to comprehend.

Irishhog, word to the wise don't ever go to Orange County and laugh at Slayer. You will get seriously pwned! Why? Because Slayer Rules!

As for dogging the baseball franchises. Nice try but last I checked the Giants were in first place in their division and won a world series the year before last.

California does have better weather and beaches than Hawaii. Proof being no hurricanes and the fact that Hawaii imported sand from So. Cal to Waikiki from Manhattan Beach in the 30s (ok this is all a stretch and Hawaii is awesome).

@Bogtrotter touché. Some people in Northern California "hate" Southern California which I am quick to point out is as dumb as "hating" California.

If I sound a bit defensive I believe its because I lived in Cleveland for a year in third grade and had to hear repeatedly that California would fall into the ocean, tortilla rhymed with chinchilla, taco was pronounced tahhhco, there was some sort of mythical pepper called a jollypeno that looked shockingly similar to jallapenos and school administrators tried to assign me and my siblings white versions of our Spanish names. Scarred me for life I guess.

In summation if any of you think Mexico has better Mexican food than California I got one word for you burrito. California 1 Mexico 0.

 

[Bluto]

An example of the trash that comes from Cali:

Officials approve study of SF Bay area mileage tax - SFGate

Give me a break. I could post all kinds of "trash" that comes out of other states. For example:

Texas GOP rejects ‘critical thinking’ skills. Really. - The Answer Sheet - The Washington Post

 

[irishpat183]

When 62% of your population votes for it, it's hardly a "GOP" problem.

And my point is that was in the 70's. Lawmakers have had the opportunity to change it since (two-thirds vote in a largely democrat run state right now should be a shoe in if this is a "GOP" problem)...but they'd rather take handouts from the rest of the country and keep spending in my opinion.

And mexican food in Texas is pretty damn good.

 

[irishpat183]

Give me a break. I could post all kinds of "trash" that comes out of other states. For example:

Texas GOP rejects ‘critical thinking’ skills. Really. - The Answer Sheet - The Washington Post

They make a good point. Combine this style of teaching with the fact that parents don't raise their own kids these days with any disipline...and that is a good reason why we're raising a nation of defiant p*ssies.

I wish schools would focus on actually teaching skills and math and sciences....its no wonder we're so far behind the rest of the world...

That's what I reject. Too much focus on "expanding their minds" and not learning anything. Take the school up in NY that teaches kids this kind of stuff (blue man school or something like that)....and turns out they can't read. And parents wonder why??

 

[RDU Irish]

I can understand how someone in Houston running a janitorial company requiring proper paperwork for employment might have some frustration over hiring people. Sifting through the BS must be a full time job. I would love to hear some criticism of IrishPat's comments from someone that signs the front of paychecks. If you say "well that doesn't matter, business owners are greedy pigs who take advantage of their employees and I am entitled to my opinion" then just consider your lack of ability to even perceive a mile in someone elses shoes.

I can understand Bog and NDinLA's perspective with their personal links to immigration. Very self conscious though to get so defensive and combative when ILLEGAL immigration is discussed and lump all immigrants into any discussion. When both sides jump so easily to emotion, it makes it hard to advance a conversation.

Seems to me, legal immigrants should be more frustrated with illegal immigrants than anyone. Seems to me hispanics walk with a chip on their shoulder thinking everyone thinks they are illegal, yet march on Washington over more lax enforcement and amnesty instead of cracking down on the people that create the perception problem? Perplexing response, to lash out at the solution to the problem instead of the cause.

I also hate the approach of attacking the delivery because you don't like the message. As a white male, I can't call people racists who assume I don't like them because of their race. I have to always be defensive and apologetic? You call a hispanic lazy and you are racist? So hispanics and any other minority are immune to being called lazy? Call a white male anything you want, especially racist, and there is no risk of being called out for it.

As for "all illegals are in the south" - http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/06/us/06immig.html - 300 Guatemalans arrested in this raid in Iowa five years ago. Happens all the time with icky jobs, Americans would rather collect welfare than do this work so illegals are the only ones left in line applying (overly broad generalization to make the point).

I also don't blame the illegals for what they do, the cost of breaking the law is minimal and the reward relative to their alternatives is huge. I find it obnoxious that business is tasked with policing immigration when government is willfully negligent. I say let pretty much everyone in with Visas and give them a 10 year probationary period to work toward citizenship. They don't have to learn English but guess what, they shouldn't expect to immortalize their native language since German was lost to my ancestors about two generations (as is common for most immigrant communities). Our entitlement culture promotes the idea that everyone should bend over backwards for the non-English speaking when traditionally assimilation meant adopting the language.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Who gets to call it illegal immigration? What if we called it incomplete immigration?

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Give me a break. I could post all kinds of "trash" that comes out of other states. For example:

Texas GOP rejects ‘critical thinking’ skills. Really. - The Answer Sheet - The Washington Post

The platform itself says that it's not opposed to "critical thinking" but rather Outcome Based Education relabeled as critical thinking.

After the WaPo failed to understand this distinction the Texas GOP Platform was redrafted to specifically say they're only against Outcome Based Education.

It's still probably a flawed view of education, but it doesn't nearly fit as square in the Liberal narrative as "GOP hates critical thinking".

 

[Bluto]

When 62% of your population votes for it, it's hardly a "GOP" problem.

And my point is that was in the 70's. Lawmakers have had the opportunity to change it since (two-thirds vote in a largely democrat run state right now should be a shoe in if this is a "GOP" problem)...but they'd rather take handouts from the rest of the country and keep spending in my opinion.

And mexican food in Texas is pretty damn good.

I have no doubt that Prop 13 will be overturned eventually. My guess is that Hispanic voters will play a large part in that as well.

Actually California pays more in federal taxes than it recieves back. If you want to be pissed at free loaders it looks like the Mid-West and South are where they are at. See attached map.

America's fiscal union: The red and the black | The Economist

 

[Bluto]

The platform itself says that it's not opposed to "critical thinking" but rather Outcome Based Education relabeled as critical thinking.

After the WaPo failed to understand this distinction the Texas GOP Platform was redrafted to specifically say they're only against Outcome Based Education.

It's still probably a flawed view of education, but it doesn't nearly fit as square in the Liberal narrative as "GOP hates critical thinking".

Of course the GOP hates critical thinking. Exhibit A: Sarah Palin.