Notre Dame Files Lawsuit Over Obamacare

[Whiskeyjack]

In short I despise "libertarian" attacks on things like public transit and public investment into schools and cities.....but I fully support the attack on the Fed.

There are definitely a lot of cranks who label themselves libertarian. Unfortunately, I don't know of a better term to describe my political beliefs.

 

[Buster Bluth]

There are definitely a lot of cranks who label themselves libertarian. Unfortunately, I don't know of a better term to describe my political beliefs.

Yeah, me neither. I don't know I just think that the Tea Party is so hell-bent on destroying all government whatsoever that they lose relevance to me. I can't take that mindset seriously. That, of course, is the difference between libertarianism and anarchism haha

I know too many libertarians who think that the only government spending should be on the military. That, of course, is ignorant and absurd.

 

[RDU Irish]

Libertarian principles are not challenged because they are correct.

Buster = closet libertarian - Socially liberal, fiscally conservative

 

[Buster Bluth]

Libertarian principles are not challenged because they are correct.

Buster = closet libertarian - Socially liberal, fiscally conservative

Well I'm not saying that I'm not a libertarian. Of course you could go on for weeks and weeks talking about issues.

Particularly with "fiscally conservative;" my goal is not "lowest possible taxes, it's "best quality of life, and high efficiency with what is spent." I am in support of things that will cost tens of billions (high-speed rail), when 95% of self-titled fiscal conservatives hate the idea and just want more freeways.

I don't know. And that, so I'm told, makes me wise. hahah

 

[Cackalacky]

When I hear "libertarians" say the Civil rights Act should not have been implemented, and that if handicap persons have to work in an office building they should work on the 1st floor instead of having an elevator required for the building, I loose all semblance of respect for said "libertarians," if in fact that is what they represent.

I do agree with Buster in that the Tea Party is just shy of anarchists but the Federal goverment definitely needs a full and total recall.

 

[RDU Irish]

Put down Rachel Maddow's book. Tea Party is not a bunch of anarchists. That is Occupy Wall Street you are thinking of.

I know plenty of Tea Partiers and they are primarily rallying around spending and simplifying the tax code. By Taxed Enough Already they mean, you get plenty of dough Uncle Sam now go live within your means and get out of my way. To me this is the most palatable portion of the Republican party (until they start going overboard on immigration, abortion and any other hyperbolic social issue)

 

[Black Irish]

Apples and oranges. Who is going to those private schools? How involved are the parents? What is the socioeconomic status?

People point to private schools as a reason for a voucher system and a free market approach to education. But, as a society, we educate all of our students. Therefore, until public schools can screen students prior to accepting them or just get rid of those who underachieve (the free market equivalent of firing a bad employee), I believe it's a flawed argument.

It's not as apple & orange as you think. Schools have to teach the same general curriculum whether they are public, private, or parochial. In 11th grade, you learn U.S. History no matter where you are.

As far as parental involvement, I'll allow that there may be more with private schools. However, my mother-in-law has taught Catholic grade school for over 30 years and there are plenty of parents she deals with who don't know and/or don't care how their kids are doing in school. In fact, some parents feel like they don't have to get more involved precisely because they are paying so much for a private school. On the other hand, my father-in-law has been a career public school teacher and he says the same thing; some parents really care and some don't. Parental involvement and socioeconomic status is a factor, but not enough to hang your hat on.

As far as screening students, that doesn't really happen in grade school. My Catholic grade school took all comers, there wasn't an entrance exam. And the only way most private schools "get rid" of underachievers is by those kids flunking out, which also happens at public school. I can't recall a single kid getting booted out of my grade school for not performing highly enough. You can scrape by in private school just as in public. High schools can cherry pick, but that some students don't make the cut says more about the quality of education they received prior to trying to get in. A good education gives you a leg up no matter where you get it; but it's likely to be better if it was from a private school

Overall, private schools are just doing it better than their public counterparts and I think it's something systematic that goes beyond money or parental involvement or cherry-picking good students.

All that being said, I do not support school vouchers or school choice. My feeling is, fix the damn schools! I would like to see a good public school system that performs closely with private schools. I'd hate to be in the position that my parents were. They sent me to Catholic grade school, but the parish high school closed and there wasn't another Catholic high school for 50 miles. So, they had to send my brother and I to public high school and hope for the best. I don't want to eliminate public education, I want it to be better so that this debate doesn't even exist anymore.

 

[RDU Irish]

and I officially withdraw my previous co-deferral to Buster, you are 75% of the way there brother but I have to say Whiskey has 100% of my support here. Now he has sole responsibility for representing my viewpoint here in my absence.

 

[Cackalacky]

Name me some things that the federal government can do more efficiently than simply giving block grants to the states?

I'll go ahead and say Social Security (only if they stopped stealing from the fund every god damn year until it went red) and the military (which should still be reduced by 30-40%).

Anything else?

I think prisons and incarceration facilities should be state or federally run 100%. For-profit prisons are super scary, although they are more "efficient" for obvious reasons.

 

[RDU Irish]

A friend from Ireland is baffled by our school system. He could not believe our Catholic grade school had zero public funding. He says "seems bollocks to me that the money isn't attached to the kid?" Sneaky smart those Irish.

 

[Buster Bluth]

A friend from Ireland is baffled by our school system. He could not believe our Catholic grade school had zero public funding. He says "seems bollocks to me that the money isn't attached to the kid?" Sneaky smart those Irish.

Our Catholic schools still get a ton of funding.

 

[Buster Bluth]

It's not as apple & orange as you think. Schools have to teach the same general curriculum whether they are public, private, or parochial. In 11th grade, you learn U.S. History no matter where you are.

As far as parental involvement, I'll allow that there may be more with private schools. However, my mother-in-law has taught Catholic grade school for over 30 years and there are plenty of parents she deals with who don't know and/or don't care how their kids are doing in school. In fact, some parents feel like they don't have to get more involved precisely because they are paying so much for a private school. On the other hand, my father-in-law has been a career public school teacher and he says the same thing; some parents really care and some don't. Parental involvement and socioeconomic status is a factor, but not enough to hang your hat on.

As far as screening students, that doesn't really happen in grade school. My Catholic grade school took all comers, there wasn't an entrance exam. And the only way most private schools "get rid" of underachievers is by those kids flunking out, which also happens at public school. I can't recall a single kid getting booted out of my grade school for not performing highly enough. You can scrape by in private school just as in public. High schools can cherry pick, but that some students don't make the cut says more about the quality of education they received prior to trying to get in. A good education gives you a leg up no matter where you get it; but it's likely to be better if it was from a private school

Overall, private schools are just doing it better than their public counterparts and I think it's something systematic that goes beyond money or parental involvement or cherry-picking good students.

All that being said, I do not support school vouchers or school choice. My feeling is, fix the damn schools! I would like to see a good public school system that performs closely with private schools. I'd hate to be in the position that my parents were. They sent me to Catholic grade school, but the parish high school closed and there wasn't another Catholic high school for 50 miles. So, they had to send my brother and I to public high school and hope for the best. I don't want to eliminate public education, I want it to be better so that this debate doesn't even exist anymore.

I found almost this entire thing to be ignorant.

It's not so much public vs private with schools, it's urban vs suburban vs private. The challenges those three groups face are all unique. Of course, parental involvement is the name of the game everywhere (and I completely agree that a ton of private school families don't care 100% involvement), but the situation in the inner city is sooooooooo different from the suburbs/privates. It's literally night and day.

That opinion is mine, and of from someone who 1) went to (three) Catholic schools in my 11/12 years and currently, at 22, am on the planning commission for the school (so I have a sense of their challenges and situation), 2) worked in the in the poorest public school in the region, and 3) whose mother has been a suburban public school teacher for 30 years.

 

[Buster Bluth]

and I officially withdraw my previous co-deferral to Buster, you are 75% of the way there brother but I have to say Whiskey has 100% of my support here. Now he has sole responsibility for representing my viewpoint here in my absence.

Oh, yeah?

Where am I off?

 

[Black Irish]

I found almost this entire thing to be ignorant.

It's not so much public vs private with schools, it's urban vs suburban vs private. The challenges those three groups face are all unique. Of course, parental involvement is the name of the game everywhere (and I completely agree that a ton of private school families don't care 100% involvement), but the situation in the inner city is sooooooooo different from the suburbs/privates. It's literally night and day.

That opinion is mine, and of from someone who 1) went to (three) Catholic schools in my 11/12 years and currently, at 22, am on the planning commission for the school (so I have a sense of their challenges and situation), 2) worked in the in the poorest public school in the region, and 3) whose mother has been a suburban public school teacher for 30 years.

I'm ignorant? We both have experience in public and private schools. We both have family with long careers in education. I am not on a school planing board, so you have me there. What is ignorant? I'm not disputing that inner city schools are worse than suburban schools. But they are both generally performing below expectations. Being dismissive and condescending is no substitution for a fact based counter-arguement.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Name me some things that the federal government can do more efficiently than simply giving block grants to the states?

I grew up in Rhode Island. It is hard for me to imagine any government being less competent than that state government. The federal government looks damn efficient by comparison.

 

[MJ12666]

The Obama administration is not going to win this. First is it likely that the Supreme Court will overturn Obamacare shortly, and even if they don't, I cannot see how the court does not rule in favor of the plaintiffs in this case.

The problem that I have with this lawsuit however deals with the Church itself. When the legislation was being debated and voted on evidence suggests that the Church was a big supporter of this legislation. Now that it has passed and they have been mandated by the Administration to abide by its provisions, they sue. They supported this piece of crap and want everyone else to live with it but they should be exempt. Give me a break. What is good for the goose should be good for the gander.

 

[BobD]

Does this change anyones mind on the subject? If someone knows how to, could you please post the video, I only know how to post links. Thanks

Funniest Commercial Ever - YouTube

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

How can anyone be opposed to contraception in the 21st century? It's ludicrously backwards.