USC is ranked #7???

LOVEMYIRISH

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What a load of crap. They are ranked above Oregon. Oregon lost to #2 Cal...and USC lost to #1,000,000 Stanford. Not to mention the close win at UW.

Head to head games, Oregon WAY ahead.
 

KamaraPolice

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Yeah, USC is struggling, they shouldn't be so high. Then Oregon, who barely lost to the #2 team on a fumble at the goal line, why aren't they the highest or second-highest ranked 1 loss team?
 

goldandblue

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It's a crock of shit. Just like Florida losing to unranked Auburn, They dropped from what 4 to 9.
 

portlaNDgal

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Stupid USC-butt-kissing press. Add this loss to barely beating UW and they should be ranked way lower.
 
U

uNiDentified1

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Maybe the media thinks that it was a fluke loss. They have enough games left against good teams to add to the 'L' column, then there is no doubt they'll drop even lower.
 

Newc

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I really can't understand how after a loss to Stanford, who has long been a weak team, USC can still be considered in the top 10. Sure they are a great team and can probably beat many of the top 10 teams, however, the fact remains that USC lost to an unranked 40+ point underdog at home and should be punished, if you will, for that.

As far as the fluke thing goes...sure it was a fluke, but there are handfuls of fluke wins every season, so regardless of what the pollsters think should have or have not happened in the game the end result speaks for itself and USC should fall much more than 6 spots. Incredibly bogus if you ask me.
 

Newc

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Sorry for the rambling, but this is exactly the reason why a playoff will never work in college football as well. Say you do an 8, 12 or 16 team playoff, the bias of the pollsters will still very much come into play. Say USC ends up the season ranked #8 while an undefeated team ends up 9th, but because they weren't ranked high before the season, which is another totally subjective thing, they can't overcome that deficit to pass a Stanford beaten USC because they only fell a few spots because of a "fluke" loss.
 

Sureal

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Don't worry, when Cal and Oregon hands it to them they'll get their ranking outside of the top ten. Right at 11.
 
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ACamp1900

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I'll be so pissed if they run the table and end up in the title game after a home loss to Standford... that would be the most unjust BCS occurance to date... worse than Auburns burn...

I mean come on!!! Standford??!! We'll be favored to beat Standford for crying out loud
 

GoshenGipper

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Sorry for the rambling, but this is exactly the reason why a playoff will never work in college football as well. Say you do an 8, 12 or 16 team playoff, the bias of the pollsters will still very much come into play. Say USC ends up the season ranked #8 while an undefeated team ends up 9th, but because they weren't ranked high before the season, which is another totally subjective thing, they can't overcome that deficit to pass a Stanford beaten USC because they only fell a few spots because of a "fluke" loss.

The polls are full of that kind of stuff right now. I believe Georgia and Tennessee both have the same record right now and Tennessee just slaughtered them yet Georgia still remains above UT in the polls. Explain that one to me.
 

Newc

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Exactly Goshen, the polls themselves are full of flaws which I don't think can ever be justfully solved, maybe that adds to the allure of college football, I don't know.
 

KamaraPolice

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Sorry for the rambling, but this is exactly the reason why a playoff will never work in college football as well. Say you do an 8, 12 or 16 team playoff, the bias of the pollsters will still very much come into play. Say USC ends up the season ranked #8 while an undefeated team ends up 9th, but because they weren't ranked high before the season, which is another totally subjective thing, they can't overcome that deficit to pass a Stanford beaten USC because they only fell a few spots because of a "fluke" loss.

Don't want to get too off topic, but USC being ranked too highly has nothing to do with the viability of a playoff.

Say USC wins out and they are ranked #3, behind LSU and OSU accordingly. Clearly, they deserve that ranking having beat #2 cal and then oregon. But what if cal's only loss is to USC, and they drop to #9? Now you have a scenario where Cal has the better loss but has no shot at a title, even in a playoff system. If we adhere to current rules, USC can look to the choke against Stanford as the reason why they wont be playing for a title. However, if there is a playoff, USC, at #3, gets redemption and Cal doesnt; unfair right? WRONG. No matter what, Cal doesnt get to play for the title anyway; this is known as the "lost cause" clause. They are damned no matter what.

Now, say LSU is #1, Zookster Zooked the Buckeyes, and now we have this:
#1) LSU undefeated
#2) Oklahoma with a bad loss to Colorado
#3) USC with a bad loss to Stanford
#4) OSU with a bad loss to Illinois

So who plays for the title? Well, it's a pissing contest, with many irrelevant factors playing the major role. Like "When did you lose that one game?" Why does it matter, a loss is a loss and a good win proves you over any loss. "Best traveling fan base?" Why does money have a role in the selection process? (Guys, look at our own favorable BCS rules if you dont believe money plays a role in the BCS selection process). Then you have the popularity contest with the media and coaches polls.

The example is based on this year, and more than lilkely wont play out. But, think about it in future years... what if Notre Dame is in the position of the 1-loss teams? A playoff system is only unfair if there is just 1 undefeated team because they have to prove themselves twice. It has nothing to do with fairness of teams outside looking in, because they are outside no matter what. If you are #5 or #12 and deserve to be #5, it doesnt matter. If you are #5 and deserve to be #2, it still doesnt matter because without a playoff system you still dont get your shot.

That's why the only time a playoff system is unfair, is when you have the top team in the country having to prove themselves twice. But if they are truly the best team, they should be able to beat a #4 and a #2.
 

ACamp1900

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Exactly Goshen, the polls themselves are full of flaws which I don't think can ever be justfully solved, maybe that adds to the allure of college football, I don't know.

It adds to the allure to to me... A large portion of my interest in cfb will fade if they ever implement a playoff... how fair is a playoff in a one and done format??? All it is in most cases is a bunch of teams who have proven over the course of a SEASON that they do not belong with the elite teams knocking off teams who have proven over the course of the entire season that they DO deserve a shot at a championship... One game playoffs are garbage... that's why I'll never take the NFL over cfb...

Give me a one loss team with a good arguemnet being left out of the title game over a 9-7 team who gets hot at the right time winning the Super bowl ANY DAY...

where's the justice in EITHER system?? They both suck... at least the BCS is interesting and doesn't allow teams that are one game over .500 to participate in the championship
 

KamaraPolice

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A playoff system wouldn't be a 32 or even 16 team playoff. The very most would be 8; 8 teams have a legitimate claim to say they are the best (with the huge variance in strength of schedule, i concur). However, I'm saying a plus 1. Take the top 4; if you don't make it in the top 4, oh well, you have no reason to complain. But if you are #3 by a nose (like USC when they got the shoo-in a couple years ago); I want to see you play against the best, not some Michigan team in the rose bowl to win your title.
 

ACamp1900

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My problem with that...

the NFL playoffs... used to be four teams
Basketball... far fewer teams
College Baketball... FAR FAR fewer teams...

we all know the money involved would do the same to cfb... (slippery slope me all you want, I'm right on that one)

Plus, why destroy the Tradition of the bowls when the system involved is really just as fair when you really sit down and look at it... would a plus one solve anything in the long run?? a four team playoff??? You still have the same gripes and in the process you have detroyed the a large part of cfb

those have been my thoughts for years... the BCS is fine
 

KamaraPolice

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So if you dont mind, I'm curious how you would determine the following:

In the scenario I presented, who plays LSU for the title, and what metrics did you use?

and

Are you ok with teams like USC getting a title for being on the outside looking in by a nose, then beating an inferorior team in the Rose Bowl due to tradition? (although michigan was good that year, they weren't LSU caliber.)
 

KamaraPolice

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I do agree that the college football season is the best season of any sports and you dont want to minimize that; that's why I feel the plus one is best, because you keep the bowls and you still have to finish in that tight window of top 4.

You just add another game after the bowls are finished. (Move all the big bowls back to Jan 1st and 2nd and then play the plus 1 when you normally play the BCS game).


edit: actually, there would be complications arising from no game for 5 weeks and then two in one week... but something different can be worked out.
 
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ACamp1900

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So if you dont mind, I'm curious how you would determine the following:

In the scenario I presented, who plays LSU for the title, and what metrics did you use?

and

Are you ok with teams like USC getting a title for being on the outside looking in by a nose, then beating an inferorior team in the Rose Bowl due to tradition? (although michigan was good that year, they weren't LSU caliber.)

They didn't win the title... ESPN and USC can create a fit all they want... the BCS title game winner is the lone champion... USC even signed a contract stating so a few years before that whole kicking and screaming debacle... any other team in the country and no one gives two shits... (see Auburn)...

your scenario is a hard one... but every team in the country signed the agreement (Spoiled Children included) to follow the BCS ruling... I would too...

I understand everyone's feelings... but one thing I always wonder about... what the hell makes a playoff fair??? what if LSU is the lone undefeated team in the nation and every other team in the country has two or more loses... is it fair to ask LSU to beat two teams in a row with two loses after they survive the SEC w/ title game unbeaten while a two loss team can win the title???

All I'm saying is the idea that a playoff solves the issue of fairness is a myth in my opinon...
 

KamaraPolice

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I understand everyone's feelings... but one thing I always wonder about... what the hell makes a playoff fair??? what if LSU is the lone undefeated team in the nation and every other team in the country has two or more loses... is it fair to ask LSU to beat two teams in a row with two loses after they survive the SEC w/ title game unbeaten while a two loss team can win the title???
All I'm saying is the idea that a playoff solves the issue of fairness is a myth in my opinon...

Good point. I guess my position is on shaky ground now.

It is unfair for the #1 team; however the idea it creates inequalities further down the line is wrong.
 

ACamp1900

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Good point. I guess my position is on shaky ground now.

It is unfair for the #1 team; however the idea it creates inequalities further down the line is wrong.

Don't get me wrong KP... BOTH our positions are on shaky ground... not trying to argue but it is something I feel VERY strongly about... I have always felt that a playoff system in every sport that does NOT use a seven game seris format is very unfair... and one that asks a team to go four or more rounds is unfair in that format as well... many reasons to this...

The thing is a playoff is the norm in our sports world... therefore it isn't as questioned... does it have the SAME problems... no... but some just as big... the only reason people bitch about the BCS is b/c it is so glaringly different imo... the the issue of fairness is an issue in both cases...

take the SD Chargers last year... they proved on the field all year last year that they were one of the three or four best teams in the league without question... anyone want to debate that???..........

but they were knocked out in the round of eight in a one and done format after dominating for three and a half quarters... when you look outside the "playoff is good bubble" that is extremely unfair...

that the Pitt Steelers the year they won it... they shouldn't even have had the op. they sneak into the playoffs... get hot and destroy any ounce of integrity that season had in terms of crowning a champion...

now don't get me wrong the BCS is hopelessly flawed... but so is a one and done playoff... and we all know the first time a #5 ranked team gets ranked number one for the Dunkel the media will scream for a playoff expansion in the interest of fairness... the NCAA will drool over the dollars and before you know it cfb is reduced to what college BB is now... a tourney and nothing more

anyway... that's my feelings... it is and always as been a difficult issue...

I for one am glad that cfb has the BCS...
 

KamaraPolice

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Don't want to get too off topic, but USC being ranked too highly has nothing to do with the viability of a playoff.

Say USC wins out and they are ranked #3, behind LSU and OSU accordingly. Clearly, they deserve that ranking having beat #2 cal and then oregon. But what if cal's only loss is to USC, and they drop to #9? Now you have a scenario where Cal has the better loss but has no shot at a title, even in a playoff system. If we adhere to current rules, USC can look to the choke against Stanford as the reason why they wont be playing for a title. However, if there is a playoff, USC, at #3, gets redemption and Cal doesnt; unfair right? WRONG. No matter what, Cal doesnt get to play for the title anyway; this is known as the "lost cause" clause. They are damned no matter what.

Now, say LSU is #1, Zookster Zooked the Buckeyes, and now we have this:
#1) LSU undefeated
#2) Oklahoma with a bad loss to Colorado
#3) USC with a bad loss to Stanford
#4) OSU with a bad loss to Illinois


So who plays for the title? Well, it's a pissing contest, with many irrelevant factors playing the major role. Like "When did you lose that one game?" Why does it matter, a loss is a loss and a good win proves you over any loss. "Best traveling fan base?" Why does money have a role in the selection process? (Guys, look at our own favorable BCS rules if you dont believe money plays a role in the BCS selection process). Then you have the popularity contest with the media and coaches polls.

The example is based on this year, and more than lilkely wont play out. But, think about it in future years... what if Notre Dame is in the position of the 1-loss teams? A playoff system is only unfair if there is just 1 undefeated team because they have to prove themselves twice. It has nothing to do with fairness of teams outside looking in, because they are outside no matter what. If you are #5 or #12 and deserve to be #5, it doesnt matter. If you are #5 and deserve to be #2, it still doesnt matter because without a playoff system you still dont get your shot.

That's why the only time a playoff system is unfair, is when you have the top team in the country having to prove themselves twice. But if they are truly the best team, they should be able to beat a #4 and a #2.


how prophetic. and to think, you don't even have to pay for my services. that was a full month before the zookster zooked em too; i hope you all made many millions of vbucks on my prediction.

and then, 2 full months later, I've managed to pull out the the top 4 competing for the national title game. it may have been a crazy season, but some oracles are never fooled.

and one could argue "LSU is undefeated."

wow, the more i read into this, the more relevance it has.
 
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SoCalDomer

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and one could argue "LSU is undefeated."

thinking.gif
Huh?
 
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