Trump Presidency Round 2

[BuaConstrictor]

God trump and vance look so fucking dumb

Evergreen content. Vance went from fucking couches to getting fucked by Z while sitting on one. Art.

"Litigate this in front of the media" - proceeds to gargle out talking points and generalities.

Vance says this as he and Trump have been litigating this in front of the media for years and now want to extort Ukraine for mineral rights for security guarantees.

I wish our politicians had as much spine as these foreign leaders have. Imagine Vance's derpy ass trying to intimidate a guy in Zelensky who Russia has been actively trying to capture and kill for the last three years...meanwhile Vance can't even order donuts without pissing down his leg.

 

[GATTACA!]

Mortifying

 

[BuaConstrictor]

Perhaps

"Perhaps" regardless of who anyone supported for POTUS we should have more of a backbone and moral/ethical compass as a country so as not to effectively blame Ukraine for being invaded by Russia and treat Ukraine as the at-fault party here. You have members of the of the GOP caucus who can't even bring themselves to admit Russia invaded Ukraine.

Queue Jeff Daniels voice: Part of what "made America great" was us as a society being able to look at a situation like this and see that Russia is the bad guy here.

It's too bad Trump and his feefees were hurt(sounds pretty snowflakey if you ask me) but trying to lecture Zelensky about stuff like this is pathetic, especially after we offered them security guarantees for this exact situation.

Also...re: Zelensky "campaigning"

 Governor Shapiro Welcomes Ukrainian President Zelenskyy to Scranton Army Ammunition Plant, Signs Sister State Agreement with Zaporizhzhia, Ukraine to Strengthen Ties

Visit highlights Pennsylvania’s manufacturing industry while Pennsylvania National Guard members train Ukrainian forces overseas. Agreement with Zaporizhzhia establishes economic partnership across key industries, based on shared values and commitment to […]

dced.pa.gov

Ukraine's Zelenskyy visits Pennsylvania ammunition plant to thank workers and ask for more

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has visited the Pennsylvania ammunition factory that is producing one of the most critically needed munitions for his country’s fight to fend off Russian ground forces.

apnews.com

?

 

[BuaConstrictor]

 

[BuaConstrictor]

Looks like Trump filled his diaper and canceled the press conference.

Man is a snowflake.

 

[BuaConstrictor]

 

[BuaConstrictor]

 

[ab2cmiller]

Didn't watch all of the videos, but it seems like the whole thing got off the rails because Vance chose to make an unnecessary statement in an effort to make Biden look bad. If Vance keeps his mouth shut, nothing happens.

 

[BuaConstrictor]

2014*

 

[TracyGraham]

Perhaps Zelenskyy miscalculated campaigning in Pennsylvania for Kamala. They need us way more than we need them. Zelenskyy is still strategically calculating like the White House feels beholden to the neoconservative vision of American Unipolarity of the post cold war order, and buddy that train has left the station

Just trying to understand this mindset because it is clear this is the direction we are going. If other more powerful countries start invading weaker nations, will your stance always be to refrain from providing any defense? Don't see the point in arguing, just want to get a gauge for how people with your mindset are thinking. I personally don't see this as necessarily a "cold war unipolar" remnant. For me is a basic idea that sovereign countries might not always make the best decisions, but invasion by another country is off the table, and it is the duty of world leaders to stand up for them.
Initially when I see people with your mindset, it is incomprehensible, but I might be missing something. Surely you have a good reason to think like you do... I would love to be able to grasp it.
What i'm hearing is there is a bully trying to take someone's lunch money. Instead of helping them fight back, it seems the idea is to encourage them to give up a portion of their lunch money to stop the bullying.

 

[GATTACA!]

How much of a moron do you have to be to come out looking like a loser in a 2 on 1 argument against a guy in his secondary language?

 

[ab2cmiller]

One of the most amazing movements in politics over the last 20 years has been the 180 degree change by both the Democrats and Republicans in relation to the U.S role in the world. Both sides have literally swapped positions. Probably an oversimplification. Shocking nonetheless.

 

[calvegas04]

Poland recognized what a train wreck that was with Trump and vance

 

[BuaConstrictor]

180 degree change by both the Democrats and Republicans in relation to the U.S role in the world

Not really sure how that is applicable here re: Russia and Ukraine

A country the strength of Russia invading another country is pretty unprecedented in the last two decades. The closest we have is the US invasion of Iraq(and even that comparison is tenuous and I'm not sure I like it) and even then democrats were against it....eventually.

I just can't think of an example that really matches where you had a country like Russia with that type of leader invading a soveirgn ally of ours and the democrats were/would have been, "Yeah, that's fine. It was really the fault of the invadee."

As you said, oversimplification...unless I'm missing your angle here

 

[TracyGraham]

One of the most amazing movements in politics over the last 20 years has been the 180 degree change by both the Democrats and Republicans in relation to the U.S role in the world. Both sides have literally swapped positions. Probably an oversimplification. Shocking nonetheless.

Sure, but I still haven't heard a good explanation as to why. It seems like republicans just oppose this war because the left supports it.

I get the republicans needed to differentiate themselves in order to create a distinction and win an election. What i don't get is how the dumbass public just ate it up and try to defend the stance. Why anyone would be critical of standing up to a bully is beyond me.

For me, I'm shocked the democrats want to do the right thing with the military, and I'm equally shocked a large portion of the right all of a sudden doesn't.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Not really sure how that is applicable here re: Russia and Ukraine

A country the strength of Russia invading another country is pretty unprecedented in the last two decades. The closest we have is the US invasion of Iraq and even then democrats were against it....eventually.

I just can't think of an example that really matches where you had a country like Russia with that type of leader invading a soveirgn ally of ours and the democrats were/would have been, "Yeah, that's fine. It was really the fault of the invadee."

I didn't mean to imply that they would've. Just making a general statement about my impression of how willing each side is to get involved militarily in other parts of the world.

I would've never believed that many Republicans would be reaching a point where they are willing to throw away NATO.

 

[calvegas04]

 

[calvegas04]

Sure, but I still haven't heard a good explanation as to why. It seems like republicans just oppose this war because the left supports it.

I get the republicans needed to differentiate themselves in order to create a distinction and win an election. What i don't get is how the dumbass public just ate it up and try to defend the stance. Why anyone would be critical of standing up to a bully is beyond me.

For me, I'm shocked the democrats want to do the right thing with the military, and I'm equally shocked a large portion of the right all of a sudden doesn't.

It's not shocking when you have seen trumps actions regarding russia, all of his foreign policies are for the benefit of russia

 

[ab2cmiller]

Sure, but I still haven't heard a good explanation as to why. It seems like republicans just oppose this war because the left supports it.

I get the republicans needed to differentiate themselves in order to create a distinction and win an election. What i don't get is how the dumbass public just ate it up and try to defend the stance. Why anyone would be critical of standing up to a bully is beyond me.

For me, I'm shocked the democrats want to do the right thing with the military, and I'm equally shocked a large portion of the right all of a sudden doesn't.

I think the right is changing primarily because of Trump. I think Trump's views hinge on the fact that other countries have taken advantage of the USA's military strength. Most of this comes down to comes down to financial commitments. It burns Trumps butt that we are incurring huge expenses to maintain a strong military that benefits other countries while those countries don't. It just feels like Trumps saying, we are tired of being everyone's big brother and you need to put forth a reasonable effort to fully arm your own country.

 

[BuaConstrictor]

Just making a general statement about my impression of how willing each side is to get involved militarily in other parts of the world.

I mean. I don't know. Guys like Slick Willy were throwing money, weapons, and supplies to Balkans. Barry O was drone striking people like crazy not to mention operational funding in places like Afghanistan and what not.

I'd agree with you that there are levels to this and I suppose you could argue how much of a "democrat" Clinton was by today's standards but I think there is a lot of room between "Democrats don't want to be hawk-ish/are anti-war hippies" and "we should really fund this ally to the teeth against undue aggression and not buddy up to the invading country."

I can see your point in certain aspects and situations, I just don't think Ukraine is that. I'm sure we could find places for agreement though.

 

[TorontoGold]

I mean. I don't know. Guys like Slick Willy were throwing money, weapons, and supplies to Balkans. Barry O was drone striking people like crazy not to mention operational funding in places like Afghanistan and what not.

I'd agree with you that there are levels to this and I suppose you could argue how much of a "democrat" Clinton was by today's standards but I think there is a lot of room between "Democrats don't want to be hawk-ish/are anti-war hippies" and "we should really fund this ally to the teeth against undue aggression and not buddy up to the invading country."

I can see your point in certain aspects and situations, I just don't think Ukraine is that. I'm sure we could find places for agreement though.

lol there is literally no equivalent to what Trump is doing to anything any former President has done. I guess Barry was....black and that made him woke? I'm sure those middle eastern kids were so happy during his presidency!

 

[TracyGraham]

I think the right is changing primarily because of Trump. I think Trump's views hinge on the fact that other countries have taken advantage of the USA's military strength. Most of this comes down to comes down to financial commitments. It burns Trumps butt that we are incurring huge expenses to maintain a strong military that benefits other countries while those countries don't. It just feels like Trumps saying, we are tired of being everyone's big brother and you need to put forth a reasonable effort to fully arm your own country.

I get this argument, but it seems like an odd place to take a stand. There were plenty of conflicts in the past that would have been great opportunities to make this point. This does not seem like that situation. If we dont support Ukraine, it seems like we are just 100% checked out no matter what wrongs go on. Ok, if that's the stance then that's the stance I guess.

 

[calvegas04]

 

[BuaConstrictor]

you need to put forth a reasonable effort to fully arm your own country.

Not addressing this as you defending Trump here but just making a general observation/comment....

The above is what makes Trump's position on Ukraine even more idiotic. Ukraine was told in part by us to NOT fully arm, and we'd protect them. We've softly prevented/asked them not to join NATO. A true "we are all looking for the guy that did this" meme moment if there ever was one.

On principle, I can somewhat see wanting an ROI (or more of an ROI) for our military investment. Trump is a child/simpleton/idiot though so he sees everything through the spectrum of dollar in dollar out. That's not how the world works and that's now reality works...anywhere....not even just in politics.

Even removing Ukraine from the equation the US reaps massive economic prosperity through our military investment. Our military investment helps stabilize countries, regions, and organizations to the point where we gain trade and open economic opportunities. We have seen and continue to see how even the invasion of Ukraine has destabilized the US/world economy. How destabilized would the world economy be without organizations like NATO over the last 70 years?

The US is something like 25% of the entire world's GDP. The large price we pay for military help/stability I think has a pretty nice ROI right now. Could the argument be made the ROI could or would be better so we can massage some things around the edges? Sure.....but I think that's a world away from the wholesale abandonment of Ukraine or going to the extent of siding with their invader.

 

[TracyGraham]

Btw, call me a hypocrite but I'm 100% in favor of invading Mexico and fucking up all the cartels to put an end to the fentanyl issue once and for all.

 

[ab2cmiller]

I get this argument, but it seems like an odd place to take a stand. There were plenty of conflicts in the past that would have been great opportunities to make this point. This does not seem like that situation. If we dont support Ukraine, it seems like we are just 100% checked out no matter what wrongs go on. Ok, if that's the stance then that's the stance I guess.

But the problem with Ukraine (where it currently stands) is that they are virtually out of fighting age men. I know Zelensky tried to deny that today. Not surprising as it would be unwise for him to admit that publicly. Proceeding with the same game plan is not an option.

So what does that mean? The US would have to get more directly involved. Are we willing to send our boys to fight in Ukraine. Are we willing to start firing missiles directly at Russia?

 

[BuaConstrictor]

Trump is truly a bitch.

 

[calvegas04]

Btw, call me a hypocrite but I'm 100% in favor of invading Mexico and fucking up all the cartels to put an end to the fentanyl issue once and for all.

I thought canada was the fentanyl dealer?

 

[BuaConstrictor]

So what does that mean? The US would have to get more directly involved. Are we willing to send our boys to fight in Ukraine. Are we willing to start firing missiles directly at Russia?

Well, I can tell you what it doesn't/shouldn't mean....
1. That we side with Russia
2. That you treat the president of Ukraine like an enemy when he comes to visit.

Again, perhaps not addressing your mindset directly...but I find it disgusting in general that we are discussing what we need to do in order to hold Ukraine accountable for being invaded by Russia twice over the last decade...rather than..just...you know....holding Russia accountable for it all.

 

[calvegas04]